Mini 733- Congratulations! You are... Mafia (Game Over)

[elvis_knits]

Oh look! I found something wonderful!! I knew I remembered being on Darox before the wagon!!! I'll keep all that stuff above, because it's true as well, but I think this is the important stuff.

Important Fact

You people who claim I didn't get on Darox until he was very surely a lynch candidate:

Page 21, Post 513:

Sly had only just been "lynched," Darox was not even voted yet, and Sly asks who the top 3 scum-candidates are for everyone.

Here, I list Darox as one of my highest suspects. Before the wagon...WAY before the wagon.

Page 23, Post 551:

Darox

still

hasn't been voted yet and it is

here

that I decide I'll make a PBPA on Darox. I apologize that it didn't come until much later, but I had no control over that. My suspicions on Darox began

long before the wagon

.


So...who still wants to claim I joined it all near to last? Yeah, so maybe I didn't

vote

Darox as early as you guys did. But I was on his trial from the get-go.

Expressing suspicions but not voting Darox is EXACTLY the way I would expect a bus to go down. You're trying to cover yourself for the future by expressing suspicion, but not actually voting guy, which might, you know, lead to your buddies death.

Isacc, I intend to vote you for your ties and behavior with Darox. Stop dithering around asking people if they want you to claim. You have the most votes. We're getting close to deadline. Obviously, you are the person that needs to claim. People haven't been moving their votes lately... and you just sitting there doing nothing is making it worse.

Isacc: claim or die.

[Isacc]

EK: The reason I didn't vote at that time was because I prefered

your

lynch. I still think you are the best lynch candidate, and this post you just made confirms it.

My argument about why bussing is not a good scumtell: you ignored. Why? Well, probably because you still want to pass off "bussing" as the biggest scumtell.

In fact, you've ignored every argument as to why I am not likely to be a buddy with Darox. A little odd, since rather than even countering them, you just stick to your guns that I

must

be buddied to Darox. Funny since I really don't even recall a good case as to why I was Darox's scumbuddy.

Next, you claim I am "sitting here doing nothing?" Says the guy who isn't looking for

any

scum suspect other than me. Push push push, on me, tunnel tunnel, that's all you're doing. At least if you are going to focus so hard on me, please counter my arguments rather than ignoring them completely.

Why so eager to force a claim? Yes, I have the most votes, but no the majority of the town doesn't want me dead. So, all you're really doing is trying to force a claim out of a town player. Not a very pro-town move.

"Isacc: claim or die."

I choose option three. Win. Why? Because you are scum.

[elvis_knits]

There are seven voting players in the game at this point. Three are voting you. If I vote you, that will be four, which is majority of the players who have a vote. It's possible that will lynch you.

[SlySly]

EK, I am assuming des and cow can't vote. You have the power to put Isacc at L-1. If Isacc refused to claim or was hammered before claiming by caf, and Isacc flipped town, that would be good reason to not buy any lemonade tomorrow. If hammered by Plum, before or after claim, and Isacc flipped town, that would bring great suspicion on Plum tomorrow. If he got hammered and flipped scum, great!!!

Isacc doesn't want to claim, that is obvious. Sounds as though he hasn't came up with a good fake claim yet because non-scum would see how close to lynch he is. Isacc seems pretty comfy that he is not near lynch, that seems like a stance that only scum could be comfy with by the knowing that his scum buddy is who holds the hammer.

EK, you are doing what you have been ragging Isacc about. Spreading the case on Isacc without a vote. Are you guilty of the bussing on Isacc like you have been accusing him of with Darox? It is beginning to seem that way.

EK, quit Isaccing and put him at L-1. It is time for this mess to be resolved.

[SlySly]

There are seven voting players in the game at this point. Three are voting you. If I vote you, that will be four, which is majority of the players who have a vote. It's possible that will lynch you.

I didn't think of this, good point.

Isacc, claim.

[Mirth]

Votecount

Isacc - 25 - [Kmd, Imaginality, Sly]
Elvis - V - [Isacc, Plum]
Plum - i - [Elvis, Caf]

Not Voting - 40/0 - [des, Hascow]

Cups of Lemonade Bought : 3

Deadline: Tuesday, March 24, 12:00 PM EST

[Isacc]

Everyone note that rather than address the issue I bring up, EK avoids it all to continue to push a claim.

Sly: Or, I don't want to claim because that would hurt the town. But hey, that's just me.


However, taking all of that into account, EK may be right and his vote may lynch me, which I cannot afford. I'd rather claim than be lynched.

So here goes.

I am

Tinkerbell

.

I am the town

Weak Doctor

I must protect someone each night. If they are town, I protect. If they are scum, I die.

Plum is most likely town, as I targetted him last night and I did not die. The only exception to this is if I was roleblocked.

Going to continue to claim that I am scum? Sly: does this sound like a fakeclaim to you still?

Now, lynch EK. NOW. *points angrily*

[SlySly]

unvote

[SlySly]

Isacc, EK could have hammered you if her suspicion was true about the majority count, her reluctance suggests townness, unless of course she is just acting to create that effect. I'm assuming EK is town from this action. That doesn't mean scuminess from her will be tolerated in the rest of the game and she should not considered herself immune from my suspicion.

If your claim is true, my suspicion now moves to other players.

I have made a fairly big fuss about the lemonade sales today and those who bought it. Caf has not even made a peep about it in return; just laying back and smiling as town blindly buys the wares and steering very clear of the topic with every post caf made after the lemonade sales for the day were satiated.

vote:caf

[elvis_knits]

First of all, Isacc, the bulk of my suspicion on you is over my read of kmd's case, which you already said was a fair assessment. Also, whether you are town or scum, claiming was the right thing for you to do to advance the game, since deadline was coming and you had the most votes. It is very scummy that you held off this long when virtually nothing has changed for weeks.

On to the claim... Any type of depowered cop or doc claim is suspect in my book. I mean, sometimes it's real, but most of the time it's the safest type of power role to claim, because it's likely they will get counter claimed.

Even if we lynch you Isacc and you fliptown, you confirm Plum. Because I am pretty sure you were not blocked last night.

[Plum]

Happy birthday, Imaginality! And EK, happy belated birthday! Now, to business, which I started before Isacc claimed, which happened in the interim. I believe the claim and believe Isacc is town. He also basically clears me, which is a pleasant bonus. Now I note that many, myself included, were previously suspicious of Isacc, but a recent post by SlySly re: his reasons for voting Isacc struck me as shady even before the claim:

I agree with this on some levels. My vote remains on Isaac mainly for 3 reasons: 1) Semantics over 'gambit' (minor), 2) ridiculous mod suicide plan (less minor, but not major), 3) if pushed to L-1, a claim might clear him in my mind. I'm not pushing for that claim at this point though but not yet ready to move my vote.

Um. Wait. You voted him for, in your mind, a minor reason, a not major reason, and the fact that a claim which you explicitly weren't pushing for might clear him? Have I

FOS

ed you yet today?

Isacc, EK could have hammered you if her suspicion was true about the majority count, her reluctance suggests townness, unless of course she is just acting to create that effect. I'm assuming EK is town from this action. That doesn't mean scuminess from her will be tolerated in the rest of the game and she should not considered herself immune from my suspicion.

I brought up the point and realized that it was doubtful that four votes would achieve a lynch unless Glork's nonvoting-but-counts-for-majority-purposes status had changed. The prudence doesn't go unappreciated, but I don't find it such a strong town-tell.

Must be off, more later.

Sly, could you make a case on Caf? Brief if that's how you roll.

[caf19]

Doc claims generally don't have much in the way of concrete evidence to support or refute them, and that is the case here. However, Isacc's behaviour today seems to support his claim, and I can't find fault with it.

Unvote.

I have made a fairly big fuss about the lemonade sales today and those who bought it. Caf has not even made a peep about it in return; just laying back and smiling as town blindly buys the wares and steering very clear of the topic with every post caf made after the lemonade sales for the day were satiated.

vote:caf

What do you want to know about it? After I've sold my quota I don't want to hang around wasting the town's time with it. It's not like I

want

to spend time on it every day, I do it because, well, you know why.

What's more, your attitude towards me and my lemonade has taken a turn.

I had no reason to trust or distrust caf yesterday. Today I feel the burden of proof is on caf to prove town benefits if he wants to sell more lemonade.

So, do you feel there is a reason to distrust me today?

You have given me no reason to trust you today.

I'm not buying lemonade today unless I am presented a very protown reason to. Caf has not given me any reason to think he is protown. If he dies if he doesn't sell enough lemonade, he should have been trying harder to prove that he is protown.

The above extracts (from posts 972, 980 and 985 respectively) exemplify your attitude towards me: a fairly neutral (if somewhat blunt) attitude towards me. Repeatedly saying I don't seem especially protown and I am not automatically trustworthy, but never saying I am actually suspicious (or pointing out any instances of things I have done that are suspicious in your eyes). It was the people who bought lemonade from such a non-obvtown player who were suspicious. Why has this now switched to an attitude wherein I am outright scummy and voteworthy?

Isacc, EK could have hammered you if her suspicion was true about the majority count, her reluctance suggests townness, unless of course she is just acting to create that effect. I'm assuming EK is town from this action.

I don't think that's a strong enough tell to make one assume she's town.

Assuming Sly still can't be lynched and Isacc and Plum are off the board for now, EK is now at the top spot on my list. Not that I'll take this lightly, mind; EK was below the line of 'acceptable lynches' for me, and I'm still not enthusiastic about lynching her. Meh, this is not optimal.

[Isacc]

WHAT? EK, are you seriously claiming my Doc claim is suspect? When is it ever a safe claim for scum to claim Doc? There's such a high chance of a counter-claim, I'd have to be retarded to find Doc a safe claim.

I am honestly laughing at the fact that you are still trying to push for my lynch. Don't justify it by saying Plum will be confirmed, because then there's a guaranteed night kill from now on, making 1 confirmed town = target range.

What worries me:

does anyone else notice this?

Also, EK has

still

deliberately ignored every accusation against her, that I've made.

Why aren't people noticing this?

Also, EK complains that my lack of a claim was stagnating the game, however now that I have claimed, instead of proceeding to find scum suspects, she tunnels again and pushes for a doc lynch.

Someone tell me you see the problem with this!

[SlySly]

What's more, your attitude towards me and my lemonade has taken a turn.

I had no reason to trust or distrust caf yesterday. Today I feel the burden of proof is on caf to prove town benefits if he wants to sell more lemonade.

So, do you feel there is a reason to distrust me today?

You have given me no reason to trust you today.

I'm not buying lemonade today unless I am presented a very protown reason to. Caf has not given me any reason to think he is protown. If he dies if he doesn't sell enough lemonade, he should have been trying harder to prove that he is protown.

The above extracts (from posts 972, 980 and 985 respectively) exemplify your attitude towards me: a fairly neutral (if somewhat blunt) attitude towards me.

QFT. That doesn't mean I wasn't suspicious of you. Why did you leave the following quotes out? I think they clearly show an element of suspicion without pointing out any specific action.

The short story is I am going to need a good reason to buy any lemonade today. "buy it (lemonade) if you think I am town" is not going to cut it today, at least for me.

If caf is scum, I don't want to help him by buying his wares. If caf is town, he needs to tell us how the town benefits from the sales before he can expect us to buy anymore.

Unless caf reveals what is accomplished by lemonade sales and it proves to be pro-town, I will not be buying any lemonade today.

-------------------

Also finds EK scummy for not commenting favourably on his plan...

shades of self-preservation

there, but whatever, he doesn't use it as a major part of his case.

Is self-preservation is a scum tell in your opinion?

-------------------

I don't see why it is more risky to buy it today - it should be less risky really, as

there is an increased chance that it does nothing

. You have attested to the fact that it had no discernible effect on you,

and it had no positive effect on me, apart from that one thing

, about which I must remain as silent as the grave. (but I think some people have inferred it) The short story is, buy it if you think I'm town.

The bolded parts seem like a direct, contradictory lie to me. Paraphrasing... 'There is an increased chance it does nothing and it had no effect on me other than keeping me alive.'

-------------------

This is commonly how wagons on townies go,

with the scum happy not to rock the boat

and just leave the wagon 'lying around' until it becomes the only choice.

The bolded part is how I see your whole game being played so far.

-------------------

Let's revisit the last post of yours I pointed out with a different part bolded for emphasis...

This is commonly how wagons on townies go, with the scum happy not to rock the boat and just leave the wagon 'lying around'

until it becomes the only choice

.

Several hours before deadline of the Darox lynch...

Whatever Darox says, it's not like we have a choice at this point.

This close to deadline, he is our only viable lynch, and whatever the reason for it, he's never going to convince anyone without that post we were waiting for.

As forewarned,

Vote: Darox

. While accusing others of avoiding questions, he does the same thing to a greater extent. Darox's death is a good idea, in my opinion.

L-1. Three and a bit hours to deadline.

I'm not a mafia wiki expert and I don't often stay alive this long in a game, so I don't know whether to call this possible bussing or distancing or if those two are basically the same thing. But I think it is clear what I am trying to illustrate here.

-------------------

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we have exactly 60 hours to deadline. I'd really like to see the rest of Darox's analysis right now,

time is running out for us

... Even if you've only done a part of it, you could just post that part now?

Taking the context of this entire post into consideration, 'us', to me, seems to infer caf/Darox.

-------------------

it will help me if you buy it so it's a case of believing that I'm town.

the consequences are far more personal. Which is why I have to get y'all to believe I'm town, as you'd presumably want to help a townie out.

Also, a friendly reminder that you can still

buy:lemonade

if you happen to want some refreshment and/or want to help

me

out.

Paraphrasing... 'I have to get everyone believing I am town so they can help ME out.'

-------------------

Hello everyone!

I have found the scum already

, it is ZaZieR obv.

vote: ZaZieR

Job done, now I can settle down for a nice long lurk.

I bet you found the scum in your PM and were serious about going into active lurk mode.

-------------------

I agree with this on some levels. My vote remains on Isaac mainly for 3 reasons: 1) Semantics over 'gambit' (minor), 2) ridiculous mod suicide plan (less minor, but not major), 3) if pushed to L-1, a claim might clear him in my mind. I'm not pushing for that claim at this point though but not yet ready to move my vote.

Um. Wait. You voted him for, in your mind, a minor reason, a not major reason, and the fact that a claim which you explicitly weren't pushing for might clear him? Have I

FOS

ed you yet today?

1. FoS = useless. I have invited votes on me all day every time someone brought it up. Vote for me or look elsewhere for scum, I still stand by this. If someone wants to bring a case on me and push for the lynch, do it and get it out of the way. Sasquatch is getting older, but he ain't that old, yet. (Imaginality, EK and caf have all expressed interest in attempting to lynch me today. You would make 4. I'm sure if you can get the count to 4, a 5th wouldn't be hard to get to dismiss the majority factor. If this is what you want to do, push now or forget it. Time is too short to waste.)
2. The only other suspicious things I had to vote on for the day were my suspicions on the lemonade purchasers(can't vote for all 3, 2 of those have been cleared for the time being in my mind).
3. Isacc's claim pretty much cleared 3 people, for the moment, in my mind (Plum, Isacc, EK). I would say my vote there served its purpose.

Sly, could you make a case on Caf? Brief if that's how you roll.

1. The best scum actively lurks to avoid bringing suspicion on himself.
2. The best scum avoid discussing suspicions on themselves unless forced into it. (3 free passes are hardly pressure).
3. Possible Darox deadline bussing/distancing.

If caf does flip scum, he will shoot to the very top of the best players I have ever had the pleasure of playing against. He has been relatively squeaky clean; too squeaky clean.

[destructor]

Happy birzday imaginality!
Happy belayted birzday elvis!

You are playing this role much better than your original role, IMO. That makes me wonder if there is something special/scummy about des-Glork that is motivating you to play better.

LOL. I zort zat I voz playink worz, to be honest. Zere are a million zinks goink on in my hed and I feel liek I haf only been abel to zay a zmall amount of it and not vell at zat. Perhaps it is my lowered access zat is makink me post mor prezisely or somtink.

Which track do you think would be better to follow at this point over the Isacc one?

Havink zeen ze claim, I am seeink elvis as ze good lynch today. I do not find Iyzak's claim hard to beeliv given my reeds of him and Plom alredy. There is ze chance zat he voz roleblocked, but until ve see a roleblocker flip, zat iz not confirmed.

I vud liked to hav pursued a haz vagon today but I do not see it as gud play to be lynchink players who are not around to reply and claim. lol

I did olzo consider testink your unlynchability agen, but sortink my feelink of imaginality out voz my priority. I voz olzo conshus of ze deadline and zort zat it vud likely be a poor use ov our time. Old ground, etc. If joo are schom, I am zinking zat ve hav to deal vith joo in ozzer vays perhaps.

This sounds like des-Glork backtracking from earlier suspicions as des-Khan. des-Khan thought Darox (confirmed scum), imaginality and Glork were all scum, now des-Glork

slighty seems

to have bussed imaginality in your last post only to attempt to clear him with this post. At one point in the game, imaginality was my 1 scum candidate. I am kind of disappointed that your promised analysis of possible scum turns out to be a semi-clearing of him.

I vud not zay I cleered him, but I am seeink zat my initial reezonink voz not so stronk. I a ztill findink ze posts ov his on caf I referred to questionable, but I know zat the Glork-imaginality connection was ov my imaginashon.

Plom and elvis probably aren't schomz toghether.

(possible - they both gave caf a free pass for the day)

...
elvis and imaginaity? -

(possible, caf free pass giver/my former 1 scum candidate)

You have conveniently left off many possible pairings. No mention of caf, kmd or cow. You said you were going to reread cow, you may have more to add about him soon. Have you 100% cleared caf and kmd from your suspicions? If yes, why?

I hav not 100% cleared anywon, but I am zinking zat caf and kmd are town, yes. I generally avoid making soch comments about who I see as most town for obvios reesons. I explayned in day 1 vy I zort zat caf voz town. Kmd, has given me town vibes for most of ze game. His caze on and adamant attitude tovards Iyzak is odd (i.e. apparent tonneling) and it vud hav been gud to zee him comentink on the developments befor Iyzak's claim.

I hav not had ze time for reedink hazcow, but left him out becos I vanted to consider ze livink players first. I did consider haz and elvis, tho.

Liek Plom, I am interezted in seeink a caze on caf.

---

Expressing suspicions but not voting Darox is EXACTLY the way I would expect a bus to go down. You're trying to cover yourself for the future by expressing suspicion, but not actually voting guy, which might, you know, lead to your buddies death.

Is it not zat joo sed joo

know

zat Iyzak is kareful viz his votes? Vy iz it zat it iz a schomtell this time?

Isacc, EK could have hammered you if her suspicion was true about the majority count, her reluctance suggests townness, unless of course she is just acting to create that effect. I'm assuming EK is town from this action. That doesn't mean scuminess from her will be tolerated in the rest of the game and she should not considered herself immune from my suspicion.

Vud joo hav accepted elvis hammerink Iyzak vithout a claim as pro-town?


Zo, ya, if I had to vot for zomone ov you, it vud be elvis.

[SlySly]

I am honestly laughing at the fact that you are still trying to push for my lynch...instead of proceeding to find scum suspects, she tunnels again and pushes for a doc lynch.

I think you are blinded by your anger with EK. EK did not continue pushing for your lynch. "If we lynch you" is not pushing for a lynch.

EK did make one statement that I agree with wholeheartedly...

It is very scummy that you held off this long when virtually nothing has changed for weeks.

...but since I believe your claim, I will call it the the play of a VI. Your claim reluctance lost us valuable time, I hope it doesn't result in a town death.

-------------------

Vud joo hav accepted elvis hammerink Iyzak vithout a claim as pro-town?

Had Isaac continued his refusal to claim, I would have supported the hammer. But I would have been suspicious of anyone (EK or anyone else) holding the hammer had Isacc flipped town.

[Isacc]

How is it scummy that I held off on claiming?

I am the doc. Now that I have claimed, the town will (most likely) have no doc after tonight, meaning bye bye protection from night kills.

Had I not claimed, and instead been able to push against the lynch enough to get the wagon dispersed (which I might have been able to do if EK didn't consistently ignore my arguments). This would have been more pro-town, as then we would still have a doc.

So, therefore, the fact that I had to claim at all hurts the town. Now that the scum know my role, they can kill me. No doc = reduced win chance for town.

This should be an obvious thought process to explain why I did not want to claim if not necessary. In fact, the only reason I claimed still was because EK demanded it with the threat of a hammer

despite ignoring my arguments

.

Sly: You can defend EK and say it's my "anger" towards her, but please explain to me why you think she has not responded to any of my actual arguments?

[Isacc]

Doublepost.

Here's some food for thought.

I have been accused for allegedly "wasting time."

If others were

so

sure that I was the best lynch, they could have hammered me already.

If others were

so

sure that I was the best lynch, they could have countered my arguments and "proven" I was scum to the others, so enough could be swayed for a lynch.

However, my arguments were avoided. No one hammered or nearly hammered me. Maybe I'm not the one people should be accusing of wasting time.

[SlySly]

I am the doc. Now that I have claimed, the town will (most likely) have no doc after tonight, meaning bye bye protection from night kills.

Your reluctance to claim so close to being lynched and so close to the deadline made it obvious, IMO, you were holding out because you were going to claim a power role. Had you not claimed, IMO, you would have been as much of a target as you are now.

So, therefore, the fact that I had to claim at all hurts the town.

The time wasted by your refusal to claim has hurt the town more than than your claim, IMO.

Sly: You can defend EK and say it's my "anger" towards her, but please explain to me why you think she has not responded to any of my actual arguments?

Could you please, laconically, again point out the arguments you feel EK is ignoring?

[destructor]

Had Isaac continued his refusal to claim, I would have supported the hammer. But I would have been suspicious of anyone (EK or anyone else) holding the hammer had Isacc flipped town.

Bot yoor reeson vor zinkink zat elvis is town is zat she did not hammer when she kood. Do you zink she vud hav zort she cud get avay vith hammerink as schom?

I dizagree vith ze critizism zat Iyzak vitholdink his claim voz anti-town (if he is indeed claimink honestly). It is pro-town to try not to klaim iv joor lynch is not inevitable, vich was throo of Iyzak.

Olzo, I disagree zat he vud hav been an equal target to schomz becos he did not claim immediately. I hav played in too games vhere a vanilla townie has refused to claim altogether becos they did not need to reeveel morr to schom. Coinzidentally, it one voz Glork in CT2 and ze other voz me myself in Weasel Mafia.

[SlySly]

Olzo, I disagree zat he vud hav been an equal target to schomz becos he did not claim immediately. I hav played in too games vhere a vanilla townie has refused to claim altogether becos they did not need to reeveel morr to schom.

Your opinion is noted. Just remember, I didn't state it as fact, I stated it as my opinion. I was not shocked at all that Isacc's claim was not vanilla.

[SlySly]

Bot yoor reeson vor zinkink zat elvis is town is zat she did not hammer when she kood. Do you zink she vud hav zort she cud get avay vith hammerink as schom?

Perhaps I was a bit premature in removing my vote. Maybe I should have given EK the chance to hammer. Had she hammered and Isacc flipped town, that would have brought suspicion on her and maybe that is why she didn't hammer in the first place.

I dizagree vith ze critizism zat Iyzak vitholdink his claim voz anti-town (if he is indeed claimink honestly). It is pro-town to try not to klaim iv joor lynch is not inevitable, vich was throo of Iyzak.

I think his lynch was inevitable, and that is why I feel his withholding of his claim has been a detriment to the town.

[caf19]

QFT. That doesn't mean I wasn't suspicious of you. Why did you leave the following quotes out? I think they clearly show an element of suspicion without pointing out any specific action.

The short story is I am going to need a good reason to buy any lemonade today. "buy it (lemonade) if you think I am town" is not going to cut it today, at least for me.

If caf is scum, I don't want to help him by buying his wares. If caf is town, he needs to tell us how the town benefits from the sales before he can expect us to buy anymore.

Unless caf reveals what is accomplished by lemonade sales and it proves to be pro-town, I will not be buying any lemonade today.

Er, not particularly; they demonstrate a similar quality of being fairly neutral while not doing me any favours. They might be a bit more sceptical in tone than the ones I quoted - well yeah, obviously you didn't think I was townie of the year - but that doesn't explain why you didn't actually bring up any specific evidence against me, either in the posts I quoted or the ones you did. Neither does it explain the occasion I quoted in my last post, when I

specifically asked you

whether you had any reason to distrust me. All you had to do was say 'yes' or bring up a point of suspicion you had against me; but you elected to turn the question round by replying with "You have given me no reason to trust you today" - emphasising how there weren't any positive townie aspects to me, but entirely refraining from talking about anything negative or scummy either. So I don't understand your sudden characterisation of yourself as thinking I was scummy all along - the evidence for it just isn't there. Either you are town who didn't think to mention his suspicions, or you are scum who had this saved up as a potential case in case your other planned mislynches went awry.

@ all the points about me being quiet, active lurking, staying in the background etc: go read my other games. I am always one of the quietest players, in every game. It's just how I am. I am quiet IRL, I am quiet here. I do not, however, think I have been an active lurker in this game. An active lurker posts meaningless posts that do not further the progress of the game. Today I have brought up my own suspicions on you and Plum, and made my comments on the elvis and Isacc cases known, at length. Everyone knows what my opinions are and they are not simply echoes of the most popular opinions out there; that is far from meaningless.

Also finds EK scummy for not commenting favourably on his plan...

shades of self-preservation

there, but whatever, he doesn't use it as a major part of his case.

Is self-preservation is a scum tell in your opinion?

Yes, I think so; particularly if used on a larger scale or as a major motivating factor of one's play. Scum only have to stay alive to win and as such are only really concerned with self-preservation, whereas townies have other things (i.e. finding scum) to worry about. If you're querying why I didn't attack Isacc much for this act which I deem to be a scumtell, it's because, as I said, he didn't use it as a major factor. That quotation is actually from a post where he suspects EK but then expresses his support for a different lynch (you). By the time he actually votes EK he is basing his suspicion on other reasons.

If, however, you are referring to the fact that you think I've been preserving myself by selling lemonade, and are trying to corner me into calling myself scummy - well, anyone would try to sell lemonade if they were in my position. I've been as transparent as I can, and scumhunted on top of this.

I don't see why it is more risky to buy it today - it should be less risky really, as

there is an increased chance that it does nothing

. You have attested to the fact that it had no discernible effect on you,

and it had no positive effect on me, apart from that one thing

, about which I must remain as silent as the grave. (but I think some people have inferred it) The short story is, buy it if you think I'm town.

The bolded parts seem like a direct, contradictory lie to me. Paraphrasing... 'There is an increased chance it does nothing and it had no effect on me other than keeping me alive.'

I meant, an increased chance that it does nothing to the drinker. That's something I was basing on your testimony, among others. You know what it does for me.

Let's revisit the last post of yours I pointed out with a different part bolded for emphasis...

This is commonly how wagons on townies go, with the scum happy not to rock the boat and just leave the wagon 'lying around'

until it becomes the only choice

.

Several hours before deadline of the Darox lynch...

Whatever Darox says, it's not like we have a choice at this point.

This close to deadline, he is our only viable lynch, and whatever the reason for it, he's never going to convince anyone without that post we were waiting for.

As forewarned,

Vote: Darox

. While accusing others of avoiding questions, he does the same thing to a greater extent. Darox's death is a good idea, in my opinion.

L-1. Three and a bit hours to deadline.

I'm not a mafia wiki expert and I don't often stay alive this long in a game, so I don't know whether to call this possible bussing or distancing or if those two are basically the same thing. But I think it is clear what I am trying to illustrate here.

I went over something similar with EK earlier. I first expressed suspicion of Darox in post 515; it continued throughout the rest of the day. I didn't express major suspicions of anyone else in that time - I wasn't conforming to the standard buddy behaviour of "FoS your partner and vote (or plan to vote) someone else". As I said at the time, I didn't want to vote until enough lemonade had been bought, as that seemed a bit counter-productive. After the lemonade had been bought, it didn't take long until I voted, but I wanted to wait until the rest of Darox's defence/thoughts because that seemed the pro-town thing to do as opposed to instantly jumping on the wagon.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we have exactly 60 hours to deadline. I'd really like to see the rest of Darox's analysis right now,

time is running out for us

... Even if you've only done a part of it, you could just post that part now?

Taking the context of this entire post into consideration, 'us', to me, seems to infer caf/Darox.

You might have had a valid point if I was actually using Darox's long posts as an excuse to get off his case. When his first big post came, others immediately took the heat off him, but I questioned it (759) and stayed on his case. If I was really looking for an excuse to vote someone other than Darox, why not do it then?

it will help me if you buy it so it's a case of believing that I'm town.

the consequences are far more personal. Which is why I have to get y'all to believe I'm town, as you'd presumably want to help a townie out.

Also, a friendly reminder that you can still

buy:lemonade

if you happen to want some refreshment and/or want to help

me

out.

Paraphrasing... 'I have to get everyone believing I am town so they can help ME out.'

Well, yes. And I'm town, so if you want to help the town out then help me out, and so on. You personally have bought it and observed that it seems to do nothing to the drinker, so it does appear purely to be a case of helping or hindering me.

---

Perhaps I was a bit premature in removing my vote. Maybe I should have given EK the chance to hammer. Had she hammered and Isacc flipped town, that would have brought suspicion on her and maybe that is why she didn't hammer in the first place.

Do you truly think that 4 votes will be enough to hammer today? I don't think it's all that likely.

@ EK, please address Isacc's issues against you. Given that by elimination you have been propelled to the top of my list, it's vital that I get a better read on you at this point.

[elvis_knits]

WHAT? EK, are you seriously claiming my Doc claim is suspect? When is it ever a safe claim for scum to claim Doc? There's such a high chance of a counter-claim, I'd have to be retarded to find Doc a safe claim.

You claimed weak doc. That is different to me than claiming plain doc. I could see a scum claiming weak doc and then if there was another doc, says, well "I'm a weak doc, there's a difference."

I am honestly laughing at the fact that you are still trying to push for my lynch. Don't justify it by saying Plum will be confirmed, because then there's a guaranteed night kill from now on, making 1 confirmed town = target range.

I didn't say we had to kill you necessarily. I am still thinking about it as an option though, and I'm not just believing you right off the bat. You get all up in arms over everything I say, saying that I am tunneling. You are tunneling too. I'm just trying to think through the claim before I make up my mind. And I do think confirming Plum would be good. Plum won't necessarily die.

Also, EK has

still

deliberately ignored every accusation against her, that I've made.

Why aren't people noticing this?

I haven't been ignoring anything. What do you want me to answer? You've been saying that nobody has made a good case for you being Darox's buddy. This is a lie. See post 1081.

Also, EK complains that my lack of a claim was stagnating the game, however now that I have claimed, instead of proceeding to find scum suspects, she tunnels again and pushes for a doc lynch.

Someone tell me you see the problem with this!

Your refusal to claim WAS stagnating the game. Now that you've claimed we can think about your claim and also look at others. Both of which the town is doing. What are you complaining about? The game is moving again. I was right. You were wrong. Suck one.

[Isacc]

EK: In response to your points, in order.


This is a bastard mod. You really think it's odd that there'd be a Weak Doc instead of a Doc? I haven't been counterclaimed, and I don't expect to: why? Because I think a Weak Doc is all we have....because it's a

bastard mod.

You are tunnelling: You have yet to look for another suspect since I claimed. Yes, you are responding to me, but why haven't you even mentioned another possible suspect since the claim? You wanted me to get things moving, but

you

in particular are moving nowhere. You are staying on me.


You have been ignoring things. However, here's my specific question now. In post 1094 I made a case explaining why the case against me was illogical. Please, now, explain to me why you did not respond

at all

to the case I made, and instead pushed for a claim.


I did not see my refusal to claim as "stagnating the game." This is total bull. There was a lot of conversation going on, especially since Destructor came into the game

right

after I was told to claim. Why didn't you comment on him, if you were so annoyed by the slow game?

And I repeat, you claim that the town is now looking at others. I agree, with one exception: you. You have slid by since the claim without scumhunting at all.