Albert B. Rampage wrote:Kinetic, please.
Kinetic wrote:Stop it now. Explain yourself. Why are my ideas stupid but yours are perfect? How do we even KNOW there is a rage like mechanic in this game like the last one? Hell I can think of 3 or 4 different mechanics which are similar but work on different principals other than time (such as, 1 rage every time someone is killed, or 1 rage every time one of them is harmed, etc etc)
This is a nightless game and the rage mechanic makes perfect sense. The hypothetical mechanics that you suggest here are incredibly broken in favor of town. The only constant factor in this game is total post count and time. I doubt that the more we post, the more we are punished for it, so the only mechanic left is time. The rage theory fits perfectly into a game like this.
Got it, so you're for ignoring theories which could be valid just because they don't fit perfectly?
I know a thing about creating and breaking complex set ups. The first thing you do to counter such a breaking is to intentionally leave imperfections, because such unanticipated imperfections are often what make perfect balance.
It makes sense, which is also why I'm not dismissing it, but I'm not one who will dismiss other possible logical theories... In fact, this post limit to rage sounds interesting... In a larger game (which this is), with more players, it may be a more balanced mechanic than time, and one which can be largely controlled by an informed minority.
Good thinking...
ABR wrote:You are, again, trying to take advantage of future indecisive players. Don't you know how difficult it is to gain a consensus, especially with 5-7 scum counter-acting us? Stop trying to stall the game. If someone doesn't have an input, we carry on and kill off the scummy player without them. We don't have all day to wait for sporadically active players to weigh in.
I am doing no such thing. And you are misrepresenting my position.
I do not think it would be wise for a small group of people to perform the kills. I think it would be wise if we did have input from a larger group. Since the SCUM group clearly is large enough for your small group kill mentality, what is to stop the SCUM from driving these lynches?
The smaller the group that decides the lynches the LARGER the influence the scum will have on it. How can you not understand that concept?
I'm not for waiting around for lurkers to decide a lynch, which is why I want a very active town, but I'm also not for a small group to essentially bulldoze the town into submission.
Think of it like this: If there are 2-3 players out of 20 who are lurking, I can get behind not waiting for them. That is a small group. If there are 12-14 players not giving input I cannot get behind said lynch/kill.
I want at least 50% of the town at least giving INPUT on said lynch, whether they oppose or support it at the very least, before going forward with a kill. I think that is the MINIMUM acceptable standards, but I would gladly accept more.
populartajo wrote:Votecount.
Kinetic. 2(Tajo, ABR)
Hoopla 1(q21)
Not voting 17 (Cybele, Drench, DrippingGoofball, Giuseppe, Hoopla, Juls, Kinetic, Nuwen, roflcopter, Seraphim,Shinnen_no_Me,Tenchi,The Fonz,vIQleS,WaltWishbone,Xylthixlm,zwetschenwasser)
Kinetic why did you heal ABR? Heal someone else, plz.
Look at the time stamps. I thought we were just spreading around the heals, noticed he wasn't healed and healed him. It just happened at the exact same moment as someone else.
roflcopter wrote:healing everyone to one above starting hit points seems like its just going to drag this day out. didn't we already establish that long days in this game are extra bad for the town?
hurt: kinetic
die fallen angel scum die
Fail. Please, help the scum more. kthx.
roflcopter wrote:the above applies to people voting kinetic. people voting xyl should get over it because he's clearly town. abr is town too.
Got it, but you're clearly scum, so I can clearly not believe anything you say.
roflcopter wrote:so, healing every single person to starting health +1 seems like a gigantic waste of time, and way too many people are hiding in this discussion when they should be scumhunting.
Disagree. For one, it means one more of these rage points to kill someone, multiply that by everyone who is max health... This is the reason why random hurting is bad. We don't want to help the scum do their job so they can efficiently use rage points. What we want to do is make it difficult for them to do anything.
Shinnen_no_Me wrote:Heal: Seraphim.
Heal me back!
Also,
vIQleS wrote:Random anything at this point has a 75% chance of hitting town.
How can you be so sure? That's a pretty solid number, you know. The only way you would know that is that you know how much scum there are, hence, you must be a scum as well.
FoS: vIQ
(My, this sure is a fast paced topic. When I was posting my last post, I was in the middle of page 4, and when I finished it, it was in page 5!)
Good catch.
FoS: ViQ
. I renew Shinnen's question, how are you so sure about the distribution?
Albert B. Rampage wrote:Kinetic wrote:Perhaps we should make another rule of sorts, Once you harm someone, for the time being, you do not harm them again. I'm trying to think of a way of wording it, but this system is very unique.
A rule that blocks a townie's ability to hurt the same player consecutively after his refreshment period. The reason this is scummy is because it would most likely lead said townie to hurt someone
else
, spreading the damage and advantaging scum. Inherently, Kinetic wants to limit the town (read: screw the town over) by limiting its power and giving the scum more time to organize themselves. Remember, this being a nightless game, the scum are freely able to daytalk. They are coordinating their moves as we speak in their quicktopic thread.
This is more of a limitation on a small group from forcing a lynch/kill on someone with little to no input from anyone else. I feel that the smaller the group pushing the kills the more that the scum can influence said group. I want at least SOME sort of consensus before we kill someone off.
Albert B. Rampage wrote:Kinetic wrote:
Also, since the Smallest life pool total is 7, we should never try to hurt someone past that threshold without letting them claim at the very least. It also gives us a little buffer in case they have more HP that 7 and scum try and secret kill them.
A rule that freezes the game once someone is at 6 damage for a claim. This is super anti-town since the mafia can claim whatever they want and the town is in no position to counter-claim since there are multiples of the same roles. He should know better than this, Kinetic wasn't born yesterday. Which means that he faked not knowing, so he could milk this pro-scum policy.
Which is why after I thought about it I rescinded my stance on this issue. You were right, I openly admitted it, and I backed down. When I am wrong, I tend to do that.
That being said, I brought it up because at the time I was still thinking of this more as a general mafia game, and this is a different beast. I did not read the previous game threads so I wasn't perfect in my knowledge.
As I learn more, my insights will be better, but I think you attacking me for what I SHOULD know when you very clearly weren't perfect on all the rules either is a little hypocritical. (I'm referring to the fact that you didn't know HP totals could go above their beginning maximum)
Albert B. Rampage wrote:Here are another series of posts I'm not too fond of:
Kinetic wrote:While the scum are saving points, they aren't using them, which makes them useless until actually used.
Downplaying the danger of scum, without actually making any points.
Actually this is more of the business school part of me, thinking about unrealized gains and losses being just that, unrealized, and when they are in such a conceptual form too many people give them real life values which are useless.
If a scum has a million rage points and we kill him, those rage points mean nothing.
Albert B. Rampage wrote:Kinetic wrote:It does mean that they can dump, and effectively night kill with such a dump, but these rules highly favor the town, not the scum.
Downplaying the scum -without any evidence- again.
You don't have any evidence that such a system exists either... I'm making assumptions based on YOUR and others assumptions. If the underlining assumption is wrong, yes, my assumption based upon it could also be wrong, but if you are right than my assumption can just as well be right.
I'm pretty good at this sort of deductive reasoning.
Albert B. Rampage wrote:Kinetic wrote:I want as many opinions on the kills as possible before someone dies.
Trying to stall the game - again.
Read my above comments for my mind set on this. A larger group of people who are involved in a lynch means a smaller percentage of the group being scum, thus this is limiting scum power.
Albert B. Rampage wrote:Kinetic wrote:-.- Got it. You realize I HATE being called stupid right?
Stop it now. Explain yourself. Why are my ideas stupid but yours are perfect? How do we even KNOW there is a rage like mechanic in this game like the last one? Hell I can think of 3 or 4 different mechanics which are similar but work on different principals other than time (such as, 1 rage every time someone is killed, or 1 rage every time one of them is harmed, etc etc)
I want to gain as much information as possible from kills.
Tell me, HOW IS THAT UNBELIEVIBLY STUPID OMG< LOL HAHAHA HAHAHA AH HAHA HA HAH AQH REAHGEAGHN AERG $#QTG$#GF AWERGFR.
...
His going crazy as soon as we caught his hand in the cookie jar. Kinetic probably expected us to debate his rules back and forth for pages on end, wasting precious scumhunting time. Look how flustered he is. And notice how I never attacked his person or called him stupid, either.
Look back at previous games, all of which I was town. I hate people who belittle me or call me stupid. It is the ONLY reason I have ever exploded in a thread. I don't like it. At all. I don't apologize for it, it is one of those things where it may be an imperfection, but it is one I live with and don't shy away from.
Albert B. Rampage wrote:Kinetic wrote:This is the way I am. I think, I reason, and I discuss. It is how I play and it is how I win. The mind cannot be rushed and I will not be hasty in my decision making.
I think this, by Kinetic's own admission, admirably describes how he plans to play the rest of this game: sluggishly, unproductively, and showing an absolute incapability of making any sort of decision within a reasonable timeframe.
He is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, a liability to this town.
Sluggish? Unproductive? Incapable of making decision?
And you base this on what? I am quite capable of rapid action once a course has been decided, but the way I am I must learn as much as possible in a reasonable time frame before I make such a decision. Don't get me wrong, I understand we're in a time crunch, but I REFUSE to allow that to effect my decision making.
This is how I play, it is how I've always played, and with my record behind me it is a winning strategy.
Cybele wrote:Ok, I wasn't really seeing it before, but ABR's summarized case against Kinetic is convincing.
Vote: Kinetic
Also: I really do agree with the idea of fake-voting instead of hurting. New mechanics means we need to adapt.
I really don't like it when someone is convinced solely on someone else's argument. It just reeks to me.
populartajo wrote:Normally Id agree with rolf you but this game is different.
EVERYBODY READ THIS.
If everybody acted like you, rolf, we would have everyone at -4HP at day 3 with rage points ready to finish the loyal part of the angels.
Hurting/healing in a disorganized way is not the way to go.
Voting fits the same objective. You think someone is scum. You vote that person. You change your mind. You unvote. You think someone else is scummier, you vote again.
If we change the word
vote
with the word
hurt
we achieve the same thing but we dont help scum with this retarded "hurting someone I think is scum"..
Topping everybody (24 hours recharge) is not a waste of time and could be helpful.
HURTING WITH NO ORDER WAS THE REASON WHY TOWN LOST THE FUCKING GAME LAST TIME.
QFT.
After looking it over I'm not liking Rofl, but for some reason I'm not getting an overly scummy vibe from him... I don't like him though...
I completely don't like Xyl either... but again, something is nagging at me.
At this point my
Vote
is on either
vIQ or Cybele
