War in Heaven II - Spirit of Vengeance (Over!)

[roflcopter]

the above applies to people voting kinetic. people voting xyl should get over it because he's clearly town. abr is town too.

[Hoopla]

Hoopla, will you vote Kinetic?

Its important to me that you bring up any hang-ups, hesitations, or objections with us, so we can figure this whole thing out - and move away from setup discussion towards scumhunting Kinetic and his buddies.

No - and I don't really like where you're going with this. It feels like you're pushing something just for the sake of pushing it. Half our cast are to join us - I don't want to bind myself to a vote over set-up discussion.

Can you summarise why exactly Kinetic is scum? I think it's perfectly valid to question a set-up and consider other options early in the game. This game is signifigantly larger than before. There is a chance that rage points (if applicable) are distributed in a different way.

[roflcopter]

hoopla is also scum, i would approve of people hurting her as well

[Seraphim]

I need a better read on Xyl, however, but I'm fairly confident of my ability to tell whether or not he is scum as I was his scum partner during MS3. I see how he thinks but there isn't enough of him posting to figure him quite yet.

I agree with topping people off as if we want to concentrate fire on someone, nothing is going to stop us. Capping is a great way to protect against Rage points regardless of whether or not they exist or if they work the same as in previous games.

Also, I'll heal someone who hasn't capped out yet if they'll heal me back.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

I need a damage count to know who I can heal.

Any roads, I agree that Kinetic's opinion are rather anti-townie. In a normal mafia game with 9 players, it's already hard to get a general concensus, so why should be any different here? If a group of people think someone is definitively scum, why shouldn't they be able to lynch him/her?

Also, populartajo, why are you voting for Kinetic?

Another thing: though I don't like much the fake vote system, I'll go with it for now in a way to show my opinion towards Kinetic:

Fake vote: Kinetic

[roflcopter]

if i'm understanding this rage issue correctly, it will take a long time for the scum team to build up enough rage points to suddenly off someone who has taken no damage whatsoever, and when they do, one extra hit point is not going to stop them.

so, healing every single person to starting health +1 seems like a gigantic waste of time, and way too many people are hiding in this discussion when they should be scumhunting.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Heal: Seraphim.

Heal me back!

Also,

Random anything at this point has a 75% chance of hitting town.

How can you be so sure? That's a pretty solid number, you know. The only way you would know that is that you know how much scum there are, hence, you must be a scum as well.

FoS: vIQ

(My, this sure is a fast paced topic. When I was posting my last post, I was in the middle of page 4, and when I finished it, it was in page 5!)

[DrippingGoofball]

so, healing every single person to starting health +1 seems like a gigantic waste of time, and way too many people are hiding in this discussion when they should be scumhunting.

QFT

Heal: roflcopter

Now I'm ready to hunt scum.

[Seraphim]

Heal: Shinnen_no_Me

Alright, 24 hours until my next action.

[roflcopter]

so, healing every single person to starting health +1 seems like a gigantic waste of time, and way too many people are hiding in this discussion when they should be scumhunting.

QFT

Heal: roflcopter

Now I'm ready to hunt scum.

i lurve you

[Albert B. Rampage]

Can you summarise why exactly Kinetic is scum?

Yes, and it would be my pleasure to. I loved Kinetic's first content post, but from then on, he has been consistently pushing a pro-scum agenda in the form of two "rules" that he feels the town should obey. I will enumerate these rules:

Perhaps we should make another rule of sorts, Once you harm someone, for the time being, you do not harm them again. I'm trying to think of a way of wording it, but this system is very unique.

A rule that blocks a townie's ability to hurt the same player consecutively after his refreshment period. The reason this is scummy is because it would most likely lead said townie to hurt someone

else

, spreading the damage and advantaging scum. Inherently, Kinetic wants to limit the town (read: screw the town over) by limiting its power and giving the scum more time to organize themselves. Remember, this being a nightless game, the scum are freely able to daytalk. They are coordinating their moves as we speak in their quicktopic thread.

Also, since the Smallest life pool total is 7, we should never try to hurt someone past that threshold without letting them claim at the very least. It also gives us a little buffer in case they have more HP that 7 and scum try and secret kill them.

A rule that freezes the game once someone is at 6 damage for a claim. This is super anti-town since the mafia can claim whatever they want and the town is in no position to counter-claim since there are multiples of the same roles. He should know better than this, Kinetic wasn't born yesterday. Which means that he faked not knowing, so he could milk this pro-scum policy.

Here are another series of posts I'm not too fond of:

While the scum are saving points, they aren't using them, which makes them useless until actually used.

Downplaying the danger of scum, without actually making any points.

It does mean that they can dump, and effectively night kill with such a dump, but these rules highly favor the town, not the scum.

Downplaying the scum -without any evidence- again.

I want as many opinions on the kills as possible before someone dies.

Trying to stall the game - again.

-.- Got it. You realize I HATE being called stupid right?

Stop it now. Explain yourself. Why are my ideas stupid but yours are perfect? How do we even KNOW there is a rage like mechanic in this game like the last one? Hell I can think of 3 or 4 different mechanics which are similar but work on different principals other than time (such as, 1 rage every time someone is killed, or 1 rage every time one of them is harmed, etc etc)

I want to gain as much information as possible from kills.

Tell me, HOW IS THAT UNBELIEVIBLY STUPID OMG< LOL HAHAHA HAHAHA AH HAHA HA HAH AQH REAHGEAGHN AERG $#QTG$#GF AWERGFR.

...

His going crazy as soon as we caught his hand in the cookie jar. Kinetic probably expected us to debate his rules back and forth for pages on end, wasting precious scumhunting time. Look how flustered he is. And notice how I never attacked his person or called him stupid, either.

This is the way I am. I think, I reason, and I discuss. It is how I play and it is how I win. The mind cannot be rushed and I will not be hasty in my decision making.

I think this, by Kinetic's own admission, admirably describes how he plans to play the rest of this game: sluggishly, unproductively, and showing an absolute incapability of making any sort of decision within a reasonable timeframe.

He is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, a liability to this town.

[populartajo]

Normally Id agree with rolf you but this game is different.
EVERYBODY READ THIS.
If everybody acted like you, rolf, we would have everyone at -4HP at day 3 with rage points ready to finish the loyal part of the angels.
Hurting/healing in a disorganized way is not the way to go.
Voting fits the same objective. You think someone is scum. You vote that person. You change your mind. You unvote. You think someone else is scummier, you vote again.
If we change the word

vote

with the word

hurt

we achieve the same thing but we dont help scum with this retarded "hurting someone I think is scum"..
Topping everybody (24 hours recharge) is not a waste of time and could be helpful.
HURTING WITH NO ORDER WAS THE REASON WHY TOWN LOST THE FUCKING GAME LAST TIME.

[DrippingGoofball]

Regardless of what you think of the startegy he proposes, potajo is so town, it hurts.

[Cybele]

Ok, I wasn't really seeing it before, but ABR's summarized case against Kinetic is convincing.

Vote: Kinetic

Also: I really do agree with the idea of fake-voting instead of hurting. New mechanics means we need to adapt.

[roflcopter]

abr's 110 is pure gold

i agree, tajo is town.
tajo, i'm not hurting with no order, i'm hurting the scummiest person and encouraging everyone else to hurt that same person. its organized.

speaking of organize, i'm organizing a brute squad, and inducting the following obviously town people into it immediately: abr, xyl, dgb, and tajo (if he'll accept). we should all agree on one person and put them down. over and over, until we've killed all the scum.

[vIQleS]

hoopla is also scum...

people voting xyl should get over it because he's clearly town. abr is town too.

I really don't like people who make definitive statements like these - especially if there's no way that they could have any info.

If you have suspicions, then present your argument. If you don't think people are convinced, then present it again - expand and clarify. Just repeating declaritive statements does not further the game...

FOS:copter

Random anything at this point has a 75% chance of hitting town.

How can you be so sure? That's a pretty solid number, you know. The only way you would know that is that you know how much scum there are, hence, you must be a scum as well.

Based on a standard mafia setup - 1 scum to 3 town. i.e. (as has already been mentioned) in a 12 player game you get 3 scum.

But that's ok - I forgive you...

[Nuwen]

the above applies to people voting kinetic. people voting xyl should get over it because he's clearly town. abr is town too.

hoopla is also scum, i would approve of people hurting her as well

Regardless of what you think of the startegy he proposes, potajo is so town, it hurts.

Does anyone else hate obvtown statements on page 5 as much as I do?

speaking of organize, i'm organizing a brute squad, and inducting the following obviously town people into it immediately: abr, xyl, dgb, and tajo (if he'll accept). we should all agree on one person and put them down. over and over, until we've killed all the scum.

Read: I'm going to collect all of my page 5 obvtown friends and killkillkill, regardless of what the rest of the town believes is optimal play. Because I'm awesome. And scum.

We can easily work out a system of overlapping hurting/healing so no one's cooldown is wasted, Orph tracking won't be painfully obvious, and a safety net of mass healage is still available.

[vIQleS]

abr's 110 is pure gold

i agree, tajo is town.
tajo, i'm not hurting with no order, i'm hurting the scummiest person and encouraging everyone else to hurt that same person. its organized.

speaking of organize, i'm organizing a brute squad, and inducting the following obviously town people into it immediately: abr, xyl, dgb, and tajo (if he'll accept). we should all agree on one person and put them down. over and over, until we've killed all the scum.

Yes, but that person is only scum in your opinion - other people may have different people in mind and they may have better reasons. If you can convince enough people to vote your way, then you may very well be right and then we can mass hurt

as a team

.

And just to prove my previous point - I've made a list of 'people who are obviously town'. I'm betting there's at least one scum in there.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I really don't like people who make definitive statements like these - especially if there's no way that they could have any info.

If you have suspicions, then present your argument. If you don't think people are convinced, then present it again - expand and clarify. Just repeating declaritive statements does not further the game...

FOS:copter

How hypocritical. Why are you taking it out on copter, but not DGB?

[Hoopla]

ABR: Thanks for your summary - you put together a case weightier than expected, but I think you're exaggerating what to me looks merely like a strategy disagreement.

I'm more inclined to put my vote on roflcopter. The go in and hurt 'em straight away tactic isn't going to work if everyone plays that way - we're just weakening ourselves unnecessarily. I also want to echo Nuwen's sentiments in

116

, in regards to conclusive claims. It kind of irks me and provides a get out clause if nobody probes, or follows them up.

Vote: roflcopter

[roflcopter]

right, hoopla dies right after kinetic

i love how i always make the scum squirm right away

[populartajo]

Votecount.

Kinetic. 4(Tajo, ABR, Shinnen, Cybele, )
Rolf 1 (Hoopla)
Xyl 1 (viqles)
Hoopla 1(q21)

Not voting 13 (Drench, DrippingGoofball, Giuseppe, Juls, Kinetic, Nuwen, roflcopter, Seraphim,Tenchi,The Fonz,WaltWishbone,Xylthixlm,zwetschenwasser)

Lurker count 6 (Drench, Giuseppe, Fonz, Waltwishbone, zwet (WTF?)

[populartajo]

hoopla is also scum...

people voting xyl should get over it because he's clearly town. abr is town too.

I really don't like people who make definitive statements like these - especially if there's no way that they could have any info.

If you have suspicions, then present your argument. If you don't think people are convinced, then present it again - expand and clarify. Just repeating declaritive statements does not further the game...

FOS:copter

Acyually, whats wrong with making definitve statements? We know that town has no additional info. There are some actions that tell you that someone is more prob town or more prob scum. Or gut. I usually play like that.

[Hoopla]

right, hoopla dies right after kinetic

i love how i always make the scum squirm right away

Do you normally jump on anyone that questions the crap you post, or am I the special case?

[vIQleS]

I really don't like people who make definitive statements like these - especially if there's no way that they could have any info.

If you have suspicions, then present your argument. If you don't think people are convinced, then present it again - expand and clarify. Just repeating declaritive statements does not further the game...

FOS:copter

How hypocritical. Why are you taking it out on copter, but not DGB?

I think you're confused about the meaning of the word hypocritical. Unless you can provide an example of where I've made a declaritive statement such as those above. (I may have done so in the past, but I'm betting that it was probably backed up with solid argument)

I did notice DBG, but I didn't see it as quite so pernicious. If it makes you feel better -

FOS:DBG

. I'm still not attacking either of them. These are only fosses - the purpose of which is simply to draw attention to possibly scummy behaviour.

Why are you defending roflcopter?