Mini 757 - South Park Mafia (Game Over)

[charter]

...So I'm an idiot and accidently deleted this votecount. If anyone needs, ask in thread or PM me and I'll put it back up. Else, just try and work around my incompetence

[Spolium]

Duly noted. However, do you think it was reasonable of dejkha to expect others to make that connection?

Not particularly, but was he really doing that?

I believe so. Concerning people voicing suspicion of post 38:

72 - "

is there someone with an ounce of open mindedness in them. If there's anyone like that, I would expect it to be caf, so I'll wait to see what he thinks.

"

I asked him why he singled you out. His initial answer was:

115 - "

7. Because I've played with him before and he was useful and logical player, so I figured if anyone would understand, it would be him.

"

However, at a later point he re-addressed my question, painting it as unnecessary:

182 - "

So, for most of the thread, [nonny]'s pushing harder and harder because of a post that seemed fine until it Spolium made something of it that would've been obvious at first glance. [..] Why would I single out Caf if I thought he wasn't useful or logical? It seems like a given.

"

So basically dej assumes that when he says "caf is likely to be open-minded", it should be obvious that (a) he played with caf before, (b) caf was logical and (c) caf was useful. I think one could

suspect

that (a) was the case, but that's about as much as could be derived from the statement in #72.

What I basically see here is an attempt to undermine the lead-up to those three questions and therefore weasel his way out of answering them directly. Dej still refuses to even acknowledge the questions at this point.

------------------

The dej thing that makes me wonder is his further noncompliance with questions, however, I could be reading into his statements what I want to see. Which is scum flaking on defending himself. I am not sure if he is truly a scum or just an irate townie.

I am not willing at this point to vote for him just so the mafia could hammer him in the event that he is town.

Isn't this a risk the town takes

anytime

someone is voted to L-1?

------------------

I'll also note at this point that there is a sweet irony in dej accusing me of manipulating words to make him look suspicious, since he himself employed a term with strong negative connotations ("close-minded") to describe those who found post 38 suspicious, and he did so more than once. There is not only the hypocrisy of this to consider, but also the manipulative nature of the term itself.

[dejkha]

Since there are two week deadlines, which is in 4 days, I'd like to claim right about now so we can at least generate discussion based on that before the day is up, since it looks like I'm gonna be lynched if I don't. If I claim and you believe me, then we're gonna need time to look at everything that's been going on and make a new lynch based on that.

Is that fine with most of you?

[Spolium]

Since we're pressed for time, dej, I say go for it.

RBT: Being emotional is no excuse to avoid saying anything. You haven't done anything even remotely resembling scumhunting so far, the deadline is in only a few days and you're lurking your arse off, despite being the second most suspected player.

Now kindly get in here and start saying things.

[dejkha]

Alright. I gonna hope that Nonny, Caf, RBT and Eso don't mind. Not much to lose by claiming.

The mod says not to quote him on anything, so I'm gonna assume it's ok to say what my role does since I'm not quoting him.

I'm Kenny, so as you can imagine, I

have

to die and the only way I can win is if town wins

and

I die by using my night action. My night action is to stop all kills, but I die in the process. So, whether you lynch me today or not, I won't be here tomorrow, since if I don't use my NC today, scum will surely kill me.

So, if you don't believe me, I ask that we vote no lynch if we can't get enough info to make another reasonable lynch, so I can at least use my night action. If I'm here tomorrow, I guess you can consider me scum (I say that hoping to god that my night action isn't canceled out by someone, one way or another).

[nonny]

Kinda fits kenny, but could be a jester. Question; do you have to pick someone or does it cease all night kills? Want to see others reactions and think it over a bit.

I want to make it known since there is a deadline coming up that I will be on a vacation from the 21st to 28th, I will take my laptop so i can post atleast once a day hopefully....As I said in the begining deadline is on my birthday >.< so not sure if i will be posting then.

[dejkha]

It stops all night kills from going through. That seems like a fair trade off for having to die. If I were a Jester, I would've just claimed Vanilla and I would've waited for someone to ask me to claim rather than suggesting it. Either way, you shouldn't lynch me. My night action is now or never because scum won't want me to live so I'm not gonna take the chance at not using it.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Policy

Unvote

I've given the game a cursory read, but obviously the most relevant current information is trying to make sense of Dejkha's claim and how it affects what we should do. I'll be back later tonight or tomorrow with my thoughts, but right now it looks like a mess to me no matter how we approach it.

[nicoliosgotpolio]

So, if you don't believe me, I ask that we vote no lynch if we can't get enough info to make another reasonable lynch, so I can at least use my night action. If I'm here tomorrow, I guess you can consider me scum (I say that hoping to god that my night action isn't canceled out by someone, one way or another).

Actually that doesn't sound too bad to me. I'd like to make a lynch today, but if we don't vote today, we will definitely have something to talk about tomorrow if he is NKed. If he isn't, obviously he's going down tomorrow unless there is very good evidence that someone blocked his action. Which, if someone says they did, hopefully that person isn't his scum partner.

[dejkha]

Nico, I was thinking someone might block it, but I didn't say anything hoping not to give them ideas. So I'm gonna hope he didn't put a roleblocker in this game.

[Spolium]

I'm willing to see how this rides out. I still think your play has been considerably questionable, but your claim is believable.

unvote

[caf19]

Hmm... my first thoughts are that scum has little to gain from claiming what dej did. This is because it guarantees his death pretty soon: if he is scum, then either we don't believe him and lynch him today, or we do believe him, and then lynch him when tomorrow comes around and he's still alive. That's not a great position for scum to be in, as they value their survival over anything else. I am mildly worried that the potential Wifom of this argument might weaken it (what does everyone else think?), but

However, the worst scenario we can enter now is not if dej is scum and we believe him, but if he is town and gets roleblocked tonight. That way, townies will die tonight, then when dej is still alive tomorrow we will swiftly lynch him, and send the game into night where more townies will die. That puts us into day 3 with (probably) at least 3 townies down and hardly any more discussion than we have now.

Given that it is fairly likely that scum have a roleblocker, that scenario is not entirely unthinkable. I have an idea to combat it, one that is largely based on speculation, but I can't think of anything better: we let dej survive to night, but if there is a vidge (or any other townie with an NK) they should kill dej tonight. If they do that, it's beneficial in all 3 scenarios: if he's scum, you kill scum. If he's town and gets roleblocked, then you're killing someone who we would just be lynching in the day anyway, thus saving us a day/night cycle. If he's town and doesn't get roleblocked, your kill won't go through so it doesn't matter who you targeted.

The problem with that plan is that I don't know if there is a vidge in the game, and don't particularly want to go on a rolefishing mission to find out whether we have one. Either way, I'd like to lynch someone other than dej today (NL isn't optimal).

Vote: nico

I wouldn't be surprised if nico flipped scum. I appreciate that you said you needed some time in order to post more, and I will retract my vote if said post comes and is very believable. However, you have to appreciate that it's only 5 or 6 days to deadline so I can't hang around waiting for you.

Btw, thanks for replacing, DDP.

[caf19]

I am mildly worried that the potential Wifom of this argument might weaken it (what does everyone else think?), but

EBWOP: I forgot to finish this sentence. It should read: "...but I'll go with it for now."

[Spolium]

Timmaaaahah

I don't think we should no-vote. Gives scum too much of a headstart on top of what they know from dej's claim (assuming he's not lying).

Timmehhh jibbaroooTIMMEH! I think RBT is the next best candidate, for the following reasons:

- reluctance to explicitly indicate PR despite no restriction on doing so
- no scumhunting to speak of (except maybe her Empking vote, which was weak)
- casting suspicion on others for trying to get an answer (weak)
- explained reluctance in terms of not wishing to aggrivate...
- ...despite being condescending in her responses about it
- "don't really like the dej wagon" - no reasons given
- "I don't like people pressuring me for a claim when mine is potentially subtle" - non-answer
- "didn't want to reply because of raging" - not good enough, could contribute in other ways

I do want to see some more discussion on this before I place a vote, but we're pressed for time. When you get a chance to reply, RBT, please be as thorough as you can, as the town may be required to judge the post on it's own merits.

Timmaahahahaha
-----

Actually that doesn't sound too bad to me. I'd like to make a lynch today, but if we don't vote today, we will definitely have something to talk about tomorrow if he is NKed. If he isn't, obviously he's going down tomorrow unless there is very good evidence that someone blocked his action.

Let me get this straight - are you saying that you want a lynch BUT you think the no-lynch "doesn't sound too bad" on the basis of having something to talk about tomorrow? Surely we'll have something to talk about regardless of whether we lynch today?

What evidence would you consider "good enough" to confirm that someone blocked his action?

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. Timmy!

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'm tempted to believe dej's claim. It doesn't make sense for scum to claim that at all because if he doesn't die for whatever reason tonight, he'd basically be an auto-lynch the next day. Furthermore, I disagree with nonny on the brief jester speculation, it seems unnecessarily complicated for a jester when simply claiming vanilla townie and irritating the town for a few last posts is almost a guarantee to be lynched.

Unfortunately optimum strategy would require knowledge of both the full attributes of the town and scum which obviously can’t happen. As it stands I think the best course of action is to find another target today and let the chips fall as they may at night because speculation about roles at this juncture is pointless.

As for targets I like the arguments put forward by Spolium about his target. I’ve got further suspicions about Spolium at this point, he tunneled pretty hard on dej which always raises my eyebrows and he seems to forget his post restriction at a rate that suggests to me he isn’t afraid of being modkilled because of it which then suggests to me that his post restriction isn’t authentic, but those are minor things compared to the arguments presented against RBT.

As it stands however, I believe RBT is the best choice today; she’s provided next to no content other than agreeing when it’s easy and convenient to do so; making it obvious she’s still around but simply and willfully not participating. Also, if we assume her post restriction is authentic then her lynch would be helpful in at very least eliminating how the town is broken up between scum and town.

Vote: Riceballtail

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: RBT

I'm not sure if I beleive Dejkha but I can't see the harm in seeing if he uses his powers tonight.

RBT claimed way too early, was skittish about PR claiming and hasn't really been trying to hunt scum.

[dejkha]

we let dej survive to night, but if there is a vidge (or any other townie with an NK) they should kill dej tonight. If they do that, it's beneficial in all 3 scenarios: if he's scum, you kill scum. If he's town and gets roleblocked, then you're killing someone who we would just be lynching in the day anyway, thus saving us a day/night cycle. If he's town and doesn't get roleblocked, your kill won't go through so it doesn't matter who you targeted.

That's a great idea. So that has to be the plan if we have a townie with a NK.

My role is why I believe RBT is more likely to be a Vanilla Mackey. It would seem like the Mod tried to match the characters with a reasonable night action (or lack thereof) that reflects them and Mr. Mackey is as plain as they come.

I'd still like responses to this post (the events leading up to this take places between 238 and 240):

Okay I'll rephrase since you are allowed to be picky but no one else is. Why even point out you think she is believable, yet have the caveat that you may in the future suspect her. You always add in those I think this but just in case it changes it's not something i feel really strongly about.

I'd like opinions on this from others. Nonny, do not answer: Does anyone think I was picky or that I correcting her when she made a false claim? Either I wrote RBT off or I didn't, so I don't see many ways to go about nitpicking through it.

[Spolium]

TIMMEH

My role is why I believe RBT is more likely to be a Vanilla Mackey. It would seem like the Mod tried to match the characters with a reasonable night action (or lack thereof) that reflects them and Mr. Mackey is as plain as they come.

Dodgy speculation. Mackey could have a power role where - for example - he could "invite" his target to the counsellor's office for a night-session, effectively blocking them from being targetted. Alternatively he could "pass around" some sample marijuana, impairing someone's ability, or he could use his counsellor "mind meld" to investigate or perform some sort of watcher/tracker function. All of these would be in keeping with the series.

Again, I would recommend that we avoid trying to outguess charter until we have more evidence of ties to the series.

TIMMMAAHHH

[Spolium]

Dej, was there any hint that your death would be significantly different flavour-wise, when triggered by your ability?

[dejkha]

You mean would it sound like I sound my ability in the flavor text? I don't think I understand what you mean...

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

You mean would it sound like I sound my ability in the flavor text? I don't think I understand what you mean...

Is there any indication that your martyr death will have a different style of write-up then a death where you're killed by scum? So that the rest of us could differentiate between you using your ability and you being killed by scum.

[dejkha]

I wouldn't know. I'm going to die regardless with the current plan we have, assuming there's a townie that gets a NK. I don't think there would be anything to gain from knowing if scum killed me, because that would seem like the logical thing to do no matter who's scum; if they don't have a roleblocker that is.

[Spolium]

Knowing whether scum killed you would let us know whether scum actually performed a killing, or if you used your ability. All information is good.

I’ve got further suspicions about Spolium at this point, he tunneled pretty hard on dej which always raises my eyebrows and he seems to forget his post restriction at a rate that suggests to me he isn’t afraid of being modkilled because of it which then suggests to me that his post restriction isn’t authentic

I can understand the first part, but the second gets a . In the post after the one where I expressed concern about forgetting my PR (112), charter indicated his stance on forgetting about PRs. Is it likely that someone would bother to do this for someone who wasn't actually PR restricted?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Isn't there a point that continually forgetting a PR moves past simple forgetfulness and moves into willful negligence though? Furthermore, there are other people (so it seems) with post restrictions in the game and with the topic hot at the time it would be as good a time as any for the mod to clarify his handling of them regardless of whether your PR is authentic or not.

[Spolium]

True, there is the possibility of general mod clarification. But yeah, I'm sure charter would make clear the point where I was being willfully negligent by modkilling me (as you can imagine, I am not particularly eager to test this).

TIMMAAAAH. Tim Tim TIm blaargh