Mini 757 - South Park Mafia (Game Over)

[EsoMonty]

EBWOP: Fourth line is in reference to the Spolium thing I keep getting quoted on.

[dejkha]

So then you do feel she was being pressured into a full claim?

Given how obvious her PR was, I'd imagine she wanted to let scum know that she's just a vanilla townie, which seems reasonable for Mackey (even though it could be a lie). I don't think she was pressured into claiming, but I don't think there's anything particularly scummy about it. It's just unfortunate that she had to do so.

Also dejka, you were asked about claiming previously, opinion on that?

Can you be more specific? Do you mean my opinion on just generally saying "I'm [insert character here]" for whatever reason?

[quote="Spolium]Manipulation, or basic reading comprehension? YOU DECIDE [/quote]

Manipulation

[Spolium]

Timmaahhhh

In fact, I have been wondering if the dej thing is a false positive.

It's a possibility, but I don't think it's a very likely one. He has gone beyond being wishy-washy over post 38 and gone into full blown question evasion mode, which I don't think townies have any good reason to do.

Can you explain why you've suddenly had this change in heart about dejkha? A fuller explanation for voting fuzzy beyond "he isn't posting" as well please, particularly considering that he's only posted on the site once since the 10th.

Timmy timmy. Blaargh

[Spolium]

Manipulation, or basic reading comprehension? YOU DECIDE

Manipulation

Thanks, Mr. Impartial.

[nonny]

No, dej. Just looked back and I was wrong. I thought someone had asked you to claim since you were at l-2. But my memory served me wrong, my bad.

So even though you said you agreed with Rest's opinion that names in this game will mean essentially nothing. You think RBT is most likly vanilla town based on the assumed name of mr macky? Is it just me or do those seem very contradictory stances to have?

Why would she need at this point to "tell scum" she is vanilla?

[dejkha]

I see how how it could be seen an contradictory stance, but I don't think it is. She pointed out how most characters have gone bad and that's true, but as far as I remember, it's not true of Mr. Mackey. The closest thing to "bad" I can remember Mr Mackey doing was smoking pot. Most other characters have some sort of bad side, so I don't think her claiming was particularly scummy.

[Empking]

I see how how it could be seen an contradictory stance, but I don't think it is. She pointed out how most characters have gone bad and that's true, but as far as I remember, it's not true of Mr. Mackey. The closest thing to "bad" I can remember Mr Mackey doing was smoking pot. Most other characters have some sort of bad side, so I don't think her claiming was particularly scummy.

He had pre-marital sex and as such will go to hell.

Dejkha: Can you understand how Spoilum got the impression he did from those posts he quoted? (the manipulation or readiong comprehension one) What did you mean?

[EsoMonty]

Timmaahhhh

In fact, I have been wondering if the dej thing is a false positive.

It's a possibility, but I don't think it's a very likely one. He has gone beyond being wishy-washy over post 38 and gone into full blown question evasion mode, which I don't think townies have any good reason to do.

Can you explain why you've suddenly had this change in heart about dejkha? A fuller explanation for voting fuzzy beyond "he isn't posting" as well please, particularly considering that he's only posted on the site once since the 10th.

Timmy timmy. Blaargh

I put what I wonder plainly. It doesn't equate to the likeliness of these events. They are merely observations that I had while reading the thread. Take as much or as little as you want from them.

On fuzzy: If he posts or we get a replacement the vote will leave. But, I have been in three games on this site where inactive people have ruined the game. I had been waiting a response from fuzzy and others about the dej situation and felt compelled to vote for one of them. I specifically choose fuzzy because he had the least amount of posts.

[dejkha]

He had pre-marital sex and as such will go to hell.

Dejkha: Can you understand how Spoilum got the impression he did from those posts he quoted? (the manipulation or readiong comprehension one) What did you mean?

I understand how he could've gotten the impression, but after I explained the reasoning for my answer it seems like he's ignoring it. He asked me which was more likely, so I answered which i thought was more likely.

[Spolium]

I put what I wonder plainly. It doesn't equate to the likeliness of these events. They are merely observations that I had while reading the thread. Take as much or as little as you want from them.

I'd rather find out a bit more about your stance on dej. You said:

In fact, I have been wondering if the dej thing is a false positive. Besides his unwillness to expound in his own words as to why character claiming would be a bad idea.

What makes you wonder if dej is a false positive? Has he done something which struck you as town behaviour?

If he posts or we get a replacement the vote will leave. But, I have been in three games on this site where inactive people have ruined the game. I had been waiting a response from fuzzy and others about the dej situation and felt compelled to vote for one of them. I specifically choose fuzzy because he had the least amount of posts.

Don't you think it'd be more productive to search for scumminess? Why do you think it's worthwhile to vote for a lurker at this point?

---------------------------

I understand how he could've gotten the impression, but after I explained the reasoning for my answer it seems like he's ignoring it. He asked me which was more likely, so I answered which i thought was more likely.

I'm not ignoring it, I'm just not accepting it as a valid explanation. In pointing out which you thought was more likely you reinforced previous assertions regarding the open-mindedness of other players in the game.

[EsoMonty]

In one of my first games on this site, Gamma looked scummy and then he was being particularly difficult. When he flipped town, I wasn't as surprised. It seems to me that it is possible that dej is doing something similar.

You have to understand, I am trying to understand his strategy. He is set for a day one lynch at this point. I am trying to understand why Mafia would set himself up for it. It can't be just a bad play.

As for my vote on people not posting. Well, I don't think those that are posting at the moment are being scummy. I see townies hoping they found an early tell.

[dejkha]

I'm not ignoring it, I'm just not accepting it as a valid explanation. In pointing out which you thought was more likely you reinforced previous assertions regarding the open-mindedness of other players in the game.

Or I could've done what? Say I thought it was more likely I said something suspicious when the whole time before that I was saying otherwise? If I said that, I would've obviously been lying. No matter what I say, it's just gonna end up in another string of questions and reaching. It doesn't matter what it reinforced, I never said what you're claiming I said. All you're doing is relying on incorrect implications, which will prove that doing so won't find scum.

[nonny]

The point i think is that south park has to characters that are nesscairly good or bad to saying you beleive the claim at this point seem foolhardy. I mean the mod could have made teachers scum or grown ups or anything....point is that it could be anyone. So why write someone off with a unwanted claim?

[dejkha]

The point i think is that south park has to characters that are nesscairly good or bad to saying you beleive the claim at this point seem foolhardy. I mean the mod could have made teachers scum or grown ups or anything....point is that it could be anyone.

So why write someone off with a unwanted claim?

I'd say "some hasn't been reading" like I did before, but you'd just say you were, so I'll save us a few posts.

I believe that she's more likely a vanilla townie than scum, but that doesn't excuse her from future suspicion, especially since she seems to be lurking for the most part.

[nonny]

Okay I'll rephrase since you are allowed to be picky but no one else is. Why even point out you think she is believable, yet have the caveat that you may in the future suspect her. You always add in those I think this but just in case it changes it's not something i feel really strongly about.

[dejkha]

Okay I'll rephrase since you are allowed to be picky but no one else is. Why even point out you think she is believable, yet have the caveat that you may in the future suspect her. You always add in those I think this but just in case it changes it's not something i feel really strongly about.

I'd like opinions on this from others. Nonny, do not answer: Does anyone think I was knit picking or that I correcting her when she made a false claim? Either I wrote RBT off or I didn't, so I don't see many ways to go about nitpicking through it.

@Nonny: I said I think she's more likely to be vanilla than scum, but it's a given that, since there's no way I could possible know whether or not she's telling the truth, she's not excused from future suspicion. If I did excuse her from future suspicion then your "write her off" statement would be correct, but that's not the case and it would be stupid to do so, so don't even try to make a deal out of what I said.

[GhostWriter]

@ GhostWriter: despite dej being your top suspect, you haven't voted for him at any point. Why not? Fair enough, he was at L-2 some of the time, but not all the time.

Yes, he was my top suspect, something I implied, though didn't actually say. He was, however, not to the point where I felt the need to vote him, or to even add the pressure of my vote. I'm not a person who likes to throw votes around a lot, excluding random votes, which I love and find hilarious. I also wanted him, more than anything, to explain himself, because I'd recently had a game where a town player died for similar reasons, and it weighed in my choices.

GhostWriter - Do you consider it beneficial to reveal a

full

list of one's suspects? Why?

That depends. What it depends on is how much one finds a person scummy, how much the town finds a person scummy, as well as whether or not the town has caught on. If you find a person really scummy, then mention it. If you find a person scummy, who the town does not find scummy, bring it to there attention, same as if the town hasn't noticed a scummy action or message of a person (scummy person or not-currently-seen-as-scummy person). If it's something minor, or simply a gut feeling no need to mention that.

[caf19]

caf19 - Who on the dejkha wagon do you think looks least scummy, and why?

I can't quite work out your motivation for asking that question, but... I'd say nonny looks pretty town to me. She expounds her suspicions thoroughly without descending into 'nitpicking' territory.

Duly noted. However, do you think it was reasonable of dejkha to expect others to make that connection?

Not particularly, but was he really doing that?

I hate scumlists(not as much as townlists but stilll) and refuse to do it at this point.

Hmm, I feel the same way about townlists, but scumlists I always thought were fine. Still, if people don't want to do it then I can hardly force them. You weren't one of the people who I found to be worryingly uncommunicative anyway...

Yes, he was my top suspect, something I implied, though didn't actually say. He was, however, not to the point where I felt the need to vote him, or to even add the pressure of my vote. I'm not a person who likes to throw votes around a lot, excluding random votes, which I love and find hilarious. I also wanted him, more than anything, to explain himself, because I'd recently had a game where a town player died for similar reasons, and it weighed in my choices.

Fair enough. So, now that dej has started to explain and/or expand on suspicions more, what do you think of him now?

She seemed frustrated that she had to use the word and I highly doubt scum would take the chance at fakeclaiming (I don't think Mr. Mackey could even be bad, but it could happen) when the real character could be out there. I believe that she's more likely a vanilla townie than scum, but that doesn't excuse her from future suspicion, especially since she seems to be lurking for the most part.

Given how obvious her PR was, I'd imagine she wanted to let scum know that she's just a vanilla townie, which seems reasonable for Mackey (even though it could be a lie).

Eh, a lot of this is just speculating into an abyss of possibilities. charter could have made any sat of characters into scum or town, and it's fairly fruitless to try and work it out, especially on Day 1. Wouldn't it be better to assess RBT on whether or not her behaviour is suspicious, rather than setup speculation relating to her?

---

Eso's 224 has a scummy feel to me.

Sorry. I haven't posted. I see nothing in the thread to sway me in any direction.

Really, nothing at all? I find that unlikely.

I wonder why RBT felt the need to full claim when asking about a post restriction.

I wonder why fuzzylightening hasn't posted at all.
...
In fact, I have been wondering if the dej thing is a false positive.

Instead of broadly wondering about stuff, which allows you to post without actually expressing an opinion one way or the other, could you actually express some thoughts on who you think is scummy? Thx.

vote: fuzzylightning

until he is replaced or posts.

Attacking lurkers at this advanced stage of the day? Don't you have anywhere better to put your vote? In my opinion it is quite likely that fuzzy had flaked, and should be dealt with by replacement, not votes. Since you can't pressure someone who doesn't read the thread, voting him is going to achieve precisely zilch.

On fuzzy: If he posts or we get a replacement the vote will leave. But, I have been in three games on this site where inactive people have ruined the game. I had been waiting a response from fuzzy and others about the dej situation and felt compelled to vote for one of them. I specifically choose fuzzy because he had the least amount of posts.

Lack of posts does not correlate with likelihood of being scum. Both town and scum lurk/flake. Don't you think it would be better to vote for the person you think is most likely to be scum?

[nicoliosgotpolio]

I'm gonna do some reading tomorrow but right now I'm very stressed out, just letting you know.
I have a washington state implicated test, WASL. blah.

[Riceballtail]

For the moment, excluding the V/LA, I've been refraining from posting much because I've been trying to not let my emotions rage and cause frustration to the town by having someone posting in a blind and frustrated tone. I imagine that I'm in a state of mind now that I can reread this game without losing my cool and post rationally again, so I will hopefully do so next time I can check, mkay?

[GhostWriter]

Fair enough. So, now that dej has started to explain and/or expand on suspicions more, what do you think of him now?

It feels like this could just be a disgruntled townie, however, the amount of circular logic being used is making me look towards the scum side for this.

[charter]

Looking for a replacement for fuzzylightning.

[EsoMonty]

unvote

vote: Riceballtail

At the moment, he seems most likely to be scum. I am not sure why he would be angry because people are wondering why he role claimed or maybe he is mad about the fact that he felt like he had to roleclaim when there was no need. Then he seems to be touchy on a subject of his own making. Seems like a massive slip to me.

To Caf19:

The wonder statements are earmarks for me and others, take them as much or as little as you want. But, they are opinions on how I am seeing the game. But, not ready to act upon or see no need to act upon.

The dej thing that makes me wonder is his further noncompliance with questions, however, I could be reading into his statements what I want to see. Which is scum flaking on defending himself. I am not sure if he is truly a scum or just an irate townie. I am not willing at this point to vote for him just so the mafia could hammer him in the event that he is town.

[nonny]

Technically if mafia did hammer him..that would atleast give us some info. Not advocating putting someone that close....mostly just joking.

That is really all I have to say right now been a tad busy.

[RestFermata]

I'll be back for real on Monday, but if you can't wait that long I should probably be replaced. I'm just grabbing some paid-for wifi on a public computer so I have to spend it wisely, which means I don't have time to read the thread. I'm not trying to lurk or flake or anything, it's just that there isn't much free internet here out in the boonies of Costa Rica.