Mini 737 - Hack Poetry Mafia (Game Over)

[don_johnson]

SL: for the record I agree that you may have your own reasons for withholding. Please do not spill until it carries the most benefit for the town.

you say this as if SL needs your advice. seems like you are seizing a chance to come off as pro town here.

vote: sekinj

please, talk some more.

[Jebus]

I'm also quite intrigued why you cannot think of a reason I am withholding the information.

Do enlighten me.

No seriously, I can't think of any reason why a claimed doctor wouldn't share their results.

[sekinj]

don: I came out and said it since SL and I seem to have problems understanding each other. I wanted it to be clear I don't like her playstyle, but I did believe her and agree with her not spilling.

this certainly doesn't help your towniness in my eyes.

[springlullaby]

I'm also quite intrigued why you cannot think of a reason I am withholding the information.

Do enlighten me.

That I would be very interested in knowing why you think my claim is bull.

I could reply 'do enlighten me first' here, but I fear the time for flippancy is past. The deadline has ruined all my fun.

And it seems to be time for action anyway.

I however demand an answer to the above, as it strikes me as very peculiar that you couldn't think of a reason.

---

So, 2 reasons to my withholding the information:

1. I didn't want speculations of debatable value to clog up the discussion right from the start of the day
2. It allowed me to observe people reaction to the lack of NK, in particular because my protection choice could prove potentially interesting in term of reaction from scum if I have indeed prevented the NK.

Here I will also make clear why I choose to lurk today since I'm at it. Beside my wanting to observe the game, the fact that I was not NK'd could mean that scum deliberately left me alive which could mean the following: that I was very wrong in my N1 evaluation, and that scum counted on my being wrong to lead town to mislynches. I didn't want to create a situation in which, by being vocal, it would be easy for scum to hide in my shadow.

---

Now pretty much time for me to reveal whom I protected, if only to get the info out here. I protected Spolium.

As I said, given my choice the reaction to the lack of NK could be particularly interesting, and I have observations on that subject that I will post later.

[Jebus]

I'm also quite intrigued why you cannot think of a reason I am withholding the information.

Do enlighten me.

No seriously, I can't think of any reason why a claimed doctor wouldn't share their results.

Again, why wouldn't the doc share their target? I honestly can't think why, and this is getting aggrivatingly confusing >.<

[Jebus]

That I would be very interested in knowing why you think my claim is bull.

I could reply 'do enlighten me first' here, but I fear the time for flippancy is past. The deadline has ruined all my fun.

And it seems to be time for action anyway.

I however demand an answer to the above, as it strikes me as very peculiar that you couldn't think of a reason.

I'm still debating whether or not I actually think your claim is bull, so that part will have to wait, if it comes at all. I understand now the meaning of withholding the info, though I think the 'clogged with speculation debate' was unavoidable either way, we still ended up with some, and in that respect your first reason seems illogical.

The second, however, makes a lot of sense now, and sorry to have pushed you for this info.


What bothers me, though, is why sekinj/don johnson hadn't at least made a theoretical as to why. Don especially, since it was he whom I first aimed the question at.

[Jebus]

Also, 529 came directly after Spring's 528 (a matter of seconds), so ignore that please.

[springlullaby]

Jebus, you are not answering my question.

I asked you to justify why you think my claim is bull. What are you "debating".

[sekinj]

I didn't have a problem with her withholding the info, so why would I have speculated in thread as to why she was doing it? Besides the few reasons that I could think of woudl have been less effective if everyone was made aware.

[Jebus]

Jebus, you are not answering my question.

I asked you to justify why you think my claim is bull. What are you "debating".

Whether or not I actually think it is. At the time I wrote it, and at the moment, it's just hypothetical.

And you would have speculated because I'd asked, and if it has to do with watching mindset, that doesn't make a difference at this time, being so close to deadline.

[springlullaby]

And you would have speculated because I'd asked, and if it has to do with watching mindset, that doesn't make a difference at this time, being so close to deadline.

I don't understand what you are saying. Please re explain.

[springlullaby]

I didn't have a problem with her withholding the info, so why would I have speculated in thread as to why she was doing it? Besides the few reasons that I could think of woudl have been less effective if everyone was made aware.

Please state those reason.

[RedCoyote]

you say this as if SL needs your advice. seems like you are seizing a chance to come off as pro town here.

This.

I think the little spat between them is null, but post 524 sounded opportunistic to me.

Nothing major for me, certainly not enough for a vote just yet, but it seems awkward nonetheless.

---

Now pretty much time for me to reveal whom I protected, if only to get the info out here. I protected Spolium.

This makes 4 from my point of view. Although I was already leaning somewhat town on Spolium, Spolium can relish in the fact that he's just been upgraded past Goat and Lynx because of this.

Looking at spring's explanation, holding the information until now was probably for the best.

But I don't think I agree with her on this point,

could mean the following: that I was very wrong in my N1 evaluation, and that scum counted on my being wrong to lead town to mislynches. I didn't want to create a situation in which, by being vocal, it would be easy for scum to hide in my shadow.

because it sounds a little pointless.

I mean, we still have had more than enough lurking to go around, with or without spring.

In any case, I'm actually a little more cautious about Goat at this point. As opposed to DO, who at least made some sort of stance today, I don't think Goat has expressed himself in any meaningful way today. I would certainly not rule out a scumGoat at this point, as I believe Goat may have seen Spolium as his most tangible threat.

The scum may also know something specific about Spolium, although I won't even venture to guess what that might be. Needless to say, Spolium's opinions from this point on (as well as his previous ones) are all the more valuable now.

For lurking close to a deadline after promises of activity and for spring's revealing of her protection of Spolium last night, I've got to

FoS: Goatrevolt

.

Moreover I could very, very easily see a bus of Budja while constantly pushing spring into the spotlight. I don't need to tell you guys how much of an interest Goat showed in keeping spring and me in the forefront of the day's discussion.

---

I still think the best lead we have to go off of today is the treatment of Budja.

I would still support an fhq lynch, but Goat has literally taken a freefall down my list based mostly on spring's visit and his activity today. The former being a crucial piece that could get be just the thing to build a serious case.

I would not be interested in a sekinj or DO lynch at the moment.

I'm most interested in hearing from Goat and Spolium, and I would also generally like to hear more from hohum, DO, and fhq.

Based on the reasons I gave in post 440/449, the flipflop on the defense/opinion thing, the defense of Budja, the suspected coaching, the popping in just enough not to look lurky, the constant lack of effort put into scumhunting today (either me or DO) and yesterday (no strong alternative lynch to propose when he didn't support Budja), and Lynx's post 513, I'll go ahead and

unvote

and

vote:fhqwhgads

.

My brain says fhq is prime scum material, but my instincts are telling me Goat is bad news. I would absolutely be willing to switch my vote to Goat based on the way I'm feeling right now.

[sekinj]

Since I was being very critical of SL I really didn't want someone to come back later and say I was trying to push her to reveal, since that was not the case.

SL: I was thinking that maybe you were not revealing just to see reactions, and who would try to push you to reveal like Jebus.

[Spolium]

Hi all, I'm still here, just been a bit focused on other games.

I must confess to being somewhat suprised by Spring's protection of me.

I will be giving this thread a full re-read very soon.

[fhqwhgads]

Firstly, I'm not going to apologize for my 'protection' of Budja. I believed he was town being scapegoated and believed he was town up until he's slip. If being wrong makes me scummy, then vote away.

SL: Damnit, if I did't put any value in your claim I would be so gunning for you right now. Your play style leaves me cold.

Re Protection, I find it odd that you protected Spolium, because I had the idea that you didn't think he was town. Still, I still hold on enough to your claim to accept this claim and thus it makes spolium even lower on my scumdar (he was pretty low to begin with)

FOS: Jebus

for pushing the doc results though. Playing ignorant doesn't fool me, the reasons for withholding has been discussed earlier in this thread (although not at length).

Vote: DO

. You try to policy lynch the claimed doc, and when that fails you disappear. Talk. Now.

[TonyMontana]

DO

has not picked up his prod, and is blacklisted.

Will do a massprod.

[fhqwhgads]

Unvote

then.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

don 525 wrote:
you say this as if SL needs your advice. seems like you are seizing a chance to come off as pro town here.

I think the little spat between them is null, but post 524 sounded opportunistic to me.

Nothing major for me, certainly not enough for a vote just yet, but it seems awkward nonetheless.

QFT. I felt a similar vibe as well with this post by Don. It just doesn't seem characteristic of Don's earlier votes and comes off a little opportunistic.

Don

, you said you were rereading. Did you find anything useful? Any further reasoning behind your vote on sekinj?

Firstly, I'm not going to apologize for my 'protection' of Budja. I believed he was town being scapegoated and believed he was town up until he's slip. If being wrong makes me scummy, then vote away

.

Thats not the only reason you're found scummy to me at the moment.

FHQ

, I'd like to know for sure what your stance is on Red. Is he scummy or not to you? Is he in your top suspects still after Don's watcher claim?

RC

, is your suspicion of Goat mostly linked to vibes? His inactivity in general make his lurking a null tell to me. Do you see him as having one of the strongest ties to Budja?

Spolium

, who is sticking out to you now since your unvote of RedCoyote?

Goat

, How do you find Jebus's play since you layed your case out against him? How has his responses affected your read on him?

Spring

, Where do your suspicions lie at the moment? How did you gauge the reactions to your concealed doc protection?

Hohum

, any thoughts whatsoever?

Jebus

, Are you still questioning Spring's claim?

Sekinj

, who do you see as a more profitable deadline lynch: FHQ or Jebus?

[sekinj]

jebus. I think he is much scummier than fhq.

[sekinj]

@spring: Do you think my post 525 was just me trying to be townie, or did you think that in our conversation the clarification was necessary?

[springlullaby]

@spring: Do you think my post 525 was just me trying to be townie, or did you think that in our conversation the clarification was necessary?

sekinj, why are you asking me this?

[sekinj]

@spring: Do you think my post 525 was just me trying to be townie, or did you think that in our conversation the clarification was necessary?

sekinj, why are you asking me this?

because several players are saying that my 525 was just a chance for me to get townie points. however, in the context of our conversation, I felt like it was important to point out that I was pressuring you to play, NOT pressuring you to reveal. Being the other person involved, I was wondering if you felt that that distinction was necessary or if from your point of view I was simply getting townie points as well.

[Jebus]

]

Jebus

, Are you still questioning Spring's claim?

Yes, now I'm at 7:3 in false:true ratio, in thought.

Debating aside, here's why I think it's probably a load of garbage.

Spring

Post 77 is her first post, which says "Look at me, I'm lurking."
For the rest of Page 4, she continues to point out this fact.
Basically, continues this behavior until Page 8, post 185. From there, Spring's activity booms, and Spring starts to look very pro town. Then we get to page 14. I suggest you read this a few times, I know I have.

And well I guess I'll claim then..

I am the Doctor.

That was on the end of page 13.

The claim itself doesn't really ping anything, it's something said directly afterwards.

Good luck to my

scumbuddy

. At least I got you the Doc .

Bye now.

Significant or not?

The fact that Spring points this post out is a real ping in my head. It speaks to me, saying "Hey, spring really wants you to look at this!"

Pretty much every post Spring made on that page comes off as scummy to me.


Now, I've got a few things to say further.

Firstly, I want to point out DO. He wanted to test the doc claim by lynching/wagoning the doc. The entire thought on DO is based on This Post.. Just the general idea that he seems to know that Spring's not the doctor. I really wish DO was here to comment.

Second,

1> Spring is the doc, and scum did a no-kill to make it look suspicious. I think this is probably not the way this would have gone. Scum forfeit one kill to make one person who is a town role that is slightly scummier than normal have the chance of possibly being mislynched.

2> Spring is scum, and scum did a no-kill to help strengthen Spring's claim. Again, I don't see why this would be a good idea, they forfeit a kill to possibly save the scumbuddy from a lynch. Again, possible is not good odds for them, and wasting the kill only to have a scumbuddy (possibly) lynched, or at least have heavy suspicion, doesn't make too much sense.

3> Spring is the doc, and successfully protected the kill. This makes sense because Spring is still ripe for a mislynch, possibly, and scum would have still gotten a kill, in addition to the possible mislynch.

4> Spring is neither the doc or scum, and was protected by the real doc. I find this one unlikely, but it could also explain it. Why wouldn't scum get rid of a doctor if they had the chance?

5> Spring is neither the doc or scum, and scum no-killed. Same as option 1, pretty much.

6> Spring is neither the doc or scum, and the real doc made a successful kill. Odd enough

Based off of DO's posting, I'd air to say that either 2 or 4 is the right one. The rest seem much more unlikely now.


What's held me up from saying it is garbage, though, is the general behavior of spring. Generally anti-town, though not scummy enough to be in the spotlight is a moderately good behavior for power roles, it keeps them from being the lynch target. So basically, well Spring has acted relatively pro-town, she lurked quite a bit to dirty her record in this game to avoid being a spotlight-pro-town player.



Also, even though DO is not here right now, I think the right thing to do here would be to go after DO/replacement.

And assuming he is replaced, we could probably get a deadline extension.

[Jebus]

FOS: Jebus

for pushing the doc results though. Playing ignorant doesn't fool me, the reasons for withholding has been discussed earlier in this thread (although not at length).

It's hard to play ignorant when in fact you

are

ignorant. I don't remember seeing anyone discuss reasons for withholding the doc results before, please point this out somewhere?