Mini 751: Suzumiya Haruhi Mafia (OVER)

[Budja]

I am still sorta of amazed that you still haven't gotten that Fos'es count as votes and votes count as Fos'es yet even when zwet reminded you. Percy voted for zwet, not you. Why do you still not get the point after 2 game days? Vote Panzerjager

Wait, you say Panzer post is scummy because he mixed up FoS's and votes. A bit much, .

Simply changing your opinion, divorced from context, is a null tell. Changing your poorly expressed opinions to even more poorly expressed, and possibly scummy, opinions is a scumtell.

You know what else is a scumtell? Posting one-sentence defences that misrepresent the case against you, and that being your only contribution to the game in recent (and almost all) posts.

QFT. Context matters. Afatchic was obviously crowd-pleasing with his complete reversal of views.

[Tarhalindur]

After seeing Koizumi lifting up the entirely collapsed Nagato, I head off downstairs in a hurry. Ice pillow, ice pillow, ice pillow, where might the ice pillow be?

It would be that I hadn't fully recovered from the shock of seeing Nagato fainted that led me to be frozen in place earlier. It just seems to be impossible. That's why the case of fake Asahina-san in my room and fake versions of ourselves roaming about in each others' rooms is something that I am just so sick of that I want to forget about it. Leave it alone. That has nothing to do with me.

"Damn!"

This is just bad. Curses. I was hoping to let Nagato live a peaceful life like a normal person for the next few days, who knew that the exact opposite would happen.

There is no trace of any ice pillow anywhere, so I wind up in the kitchen by instinct. My own ice mat is not in the emergency kit, but in the fridge. Where would it be in this strange house?

"Wait."

I stop my hand as I hold onto the handle of the fridge door. I pray as hard as I can in my head after having visualized the image of an ice pillow in my head.

Following that, I open the fridge.

"...there."

The blue ice pillow sits atop the cabbage.

Everything really is provided for. This is way too convenient. I don't know who pays such attention to detail, but it will only lead to an undesired outcome. I am more resolute thanks to that fellow.

We definitely can't stay in a place like this. "

- The Rampage of Haruhi Suzumiya

("Snow Mountain Syndrome")

It's FoS'es to lynch, people. - Tar

The Tenth Vote Count (aka the "Something Is Amiss..." Vote Count)

2) malthusis (0)
5) Panzerjager (1) - malthusis
6) veerus (0)
7) ortolan (1) - Panzerjager
9) Percy (0)
10) Trumpet of Doom (1) - Trumpet of Doom
11) Budja (0)
12) afatchic (0)

Not Voting (4): veerus, ortolan, Percy, Budja, afatchic

FoS Count

2) malthusis (0)
5) Panzerjager (0)
6) veerus (0)
7) ortolan (0)
9) Percy (1) - Panzerjager
10) Trumpet of Doom (0)
11) Budja (0)
12) zwetschenwasser (rep. afatchic) (3) - Budja, Percy, Trumpet of Doom

Not FoSing (4): malthusis, veerus, ortolan, zwetschenwasser

FoS'es Required to Lynch:

5

Current Deadline:

March 24, 2009 at ~6:00 CST (GMT -6)

Second Mod Deadline Review:

March 17, 2009 at ~6:00 P.M. CST (GMT -6)

[zwetschenwasser]

I change my opinions rapidly without warning if I deem it necessary.

[ortolan]

Percy: which questions have I failed to answer?

@Otrolan, people were coming off of Seraphim meaning there was obviously some people who didn't want it to happen. So it could of easily been avoided. Why did you want it to happen? And why would you want to get it out of the way before day was even really started and we could get any info.

Also, saying that he is 95% right pretty much is saying his suspicions are founded. The only players who would have wanted his lynch so quickly are ones that are anti-town I'm more then willing to but 2 of the scum are in that group.

This suggestion is unsupported.

And if there is something, why haven't you started talking about it?

I have. It is scummy to encourage town to tunnel on those on those on Seraphim's wagon. Thus I am currently critiquing you.

vote - ortolan

Your case is crap. Look elsewhere, and help me find scum.

This is a very bad incentive for me to remove my vote. You give me the equivalent of an FoS in the normal game and as a purely OMGUS gesture, because apparently you don't like having one vote on you.

Percy is not playing consistently with what I've seen from him previously. He seems very keen to justify his case against zwet but it doesn't change the fact that zwet is an easy target and he's acted no differently to his usual games- afatchic being flip floppy isn't exactly a scum-tell either. I've played with him before and he is, you know, kind of like that.

I also see potential pairings between Percy and veerus and/or Panzerjager

[Trumpet of Doom]

The Tenth Vote Count (aka the "Something Is Amiss..." Vote Count)

Something is amiss, huh? Besides the minor details that:
1) I'm apparently voting myself and not zwetschenwasser?

Unvote

in case that's actually supposed to be there.
2) afatchic's name hasn't been changed to zwetschenwasser in the vote section, but has in the FoS section?
3) zwetschenwasser is apparently FoS'ing himself, even though none of his posts have him doing so?
4) My FoS on zwetschenwasser isn't counted? Let's try this again:

FoS: zwetschenwasser.

Never underestimate my ability to screw up vote counts. Fixed. - Tar

The reread didn't really change my opinions.

[zwetschenwasser]

What a great excuse to put me at L-1, ToD: "Let's see if my FoS works"

[Trumpet of Doom]

Well, clearly you don't mind being lynched, or else you would have done something about the FoS you apparently have on yourself. (hint hint)

Oh, so *that's* how I screwed that last vote count up - I counted your FoS but mistakenly attributed it to zwetschenwasser himself. Fixed again. - Tar

[ortolan]

lol the way zwet is acting is entirely consistent with other games I've seen him in- I know Percy knows this also.

Percy is scum.

The zwet bandwagon is rotten to the core.

[zwetschenwasser]

UnFoS

Percy's case is that I'm in too many games and that afatchic was a freak.

[Budja]

Percy's case is that I'm in too many games and that afatchic was a freak.

Ah, I think you are oversimplifying/misinterpreting the case here. Unsupported comments like this don't help you. If you don't want to be lynched, give us a better target, show some pro-town activity.

The zwet bandwagon is rotten to the core.

Why? I agree we you that zwet's is a bit of an easy target, but that doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye. I believed afatchic's actions to be scummy. Just because you suspect one person on the wagon doesn't mean the wagon is flawed.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Percy's case is that I'm

in too many games

not contributing

and that afatchic was a freak.

Fixed for you. If you want me to look elsewhere, point me to a specific post from someone that you think is scummy and show me why you think it's scummy. (Essentially, what Budja said.)

Yes, you're an easy target. Yes, part of why I'm FoSing you is afatchic's poor play - if players change their minds about something, I like to hear reasons. No, I don't like voting a player mostly on what their predecessor did. But you're not making yourself look less scummy, so until I see solid,

analyzed

evidence that someone else is scummier or that you're town, my vote's staying. (Come on, somebody else, give me something I can go after...)

[Percy]

Percy: which questions have I failed to answer?

Er, let's start with most of the questions I posed to you in 176.

-Why did you say you liked post 157, only to now say that you don't like any of it? What did you like? What didn't you like? Why?
-The contradiction you attempted to point out just wasn't there. Do you still maintain that it's true?
-Why should the manner in which people participated in the Seraphim wagon be ignored?

---

Oh, and I loved this:

And if there is something, why haven't you started talking about it?

I have. It is scummy to encourage town to tunnel on those on those on Seraphim's wagon. Thus I am currently critiquing you.

Let's take a look at what I actually said, yes?

Also, seriously, how else did you want a conversation to get started today?

What else was there to talk about?

And if there is something, why haven't you started talking about it?

I guess your answer says "there was nothing else to talk about at the start of the day, except the wagon. Therefore, I'm going to jump on whoever wants to talk about the wagon". This makes no sense.

I wanted to talk about how people contributed to the Seraphim wagon. It seemed like the best way to start the day, since we didn't have anything else to work with. I thought I saw scummy behaviour there, so I looked into it.

Give me one post, one bit of evidence that I wanted to tunnel. Just one. If you feel like the search

has

tunnelled, then why is it my fault?

Also, how about you answer the question that I quoted, rather than whatever you think it should mean?

---

Finally, answer this:

Yeah, I'm not comfortable with this idea being thrown around as if what makes a "Tarhalindur game" is well understood. Does this mean we can work under the assumption of different numbers of scum? Why?

---

And onto the zwet question:

Percy is not playing consistently with what I've seen from him previously. He seems very keen to justify his case against zwet but it doesn't change the fact that zwet is an easy target and he's acted no differently to his usual games- afatchic being flip floppy isn't exactly a scum-tell either. I've played with him before and he is, you know, kind of like that.

lol the way zwet is acting is entirely consistent with other games I've seen him in- I know Percy knows this also.

Percy is scum.

The zwet bandwagon is rotten to the core.

Firstly, let me say that ortolan, zwet and I are currently in another game together. Given that the three of us are all still alive, it makes this meta analysis kinda completely bullshit.

It's true that zwet is playing in a similar style to Prisoner's Dilemma II. I'm not going to trawl through all the games zwet is playing to figure out whether it's consistent across the board. Why? Because consistent play across games does not mean that the player is town in this one. If zwet's meta makes it easier for him to get away with scummy play, why should we give him a free ride? Based on his contributions

to this game

, he seems pretty damn scummy to me. If he's an "easy target", then he should become less of an easy target and actually do something.

You're defending another player. Why? Defending others is almost always a scumtell in my experience. Let him dig himself out of this mess, if he has answers. Don't let him off the hook just because he's like this in other games. And don't incriminate me for constructing a case. Let him answer for it.

Before I move on to what my case with zwet actually is, answer this: why is it OK for you to declare the entire zwet wagon scummy, but not OK for me to start the day by looking at people's individual motivations for participating in the Seraphim wagon? What makes what I did 'tunnelling', and what you did 'great awesome protown play'?

---

Let's start with my post almost two weeks ago:

Now he's been replaced by zwet. I will therefore

FoS: zwetschenwasser

until he delivers some scumhunting and analysis. Then, and only then, can you shake off the horrible stench of afatchic's anti-town BS.

Then again, a few days later:

My FoS is staying where it is. Zwet was top of my scumlist when he was afatchic, now all I get is a blurry zwet-read. He claims to have generated content, but it's not really anything useful.

A few days later:

The fact remains that I don't think you're playing this game in a way that is helping us find scum. Your posts seem to be based on quick reads of people, without any real analysis.

Now you say there's not much to comment on when I say "hey, you should do some scumhunting and analysis". And then you defend yourself, and defer to ortolan.

I think you're actively lurking - posting a lot, but nothing of substance. I think the fact that you're in a lot of games has something to do with that. If you insist that it's not, and that you can handle playing all these games, then actually play this one.

My case: No analysis, no scumhunting, defensive play, active lurking, lack of any contributions, no attempt to address or correct any of these issues. And now we can add misrepresentation, as he addressed none of these, instead saying:

So... half of your case is that my predecessor was outspoken and the other half is that I'm in a lot of games. Makes perfect sense, Percy.

In response:

You know what else is a scumtell? Posting one-sentence defences that misrepresent the case against you, and that being your

only contribution

to the game in recent (and almost all) posts.

And he continues in fine form:

See? That's your case! Afatchic was indecisive, so you must me scum!

UnFoS

Percy's case is that I'm in too many games and that afatchic was a freak.

Keep saying it, maybe it will come true!

[zwetschenwasser]

How many more times do I have to say it then? You're throwing BS at me like "you're active lurking" which is completely untrue, and then everyone's asking me to give my opinions on who's scum when I've said at least twice that I think you are.

[Budja]

Trumpet, I think I made it clear enough that I think Percy is scum, because of this case that isn't based on my playstyle, but on his adding words to his read of it.

This is your only post where you say you suspect Percy and it is fairly hypocritical considering all your recent posts seem to be "adding words" or misinterpreting others posts yourself.

[zwetschenwasser]

That's not true, bud.

[Budja]

Uh, Yes it is. Surely you can defend yourself better than that.

Quick example here from up the page:

My FoS on zwetschenwasser isn't counted? Let's try this again: FoS: zwetschenwasser.

What a great excuse to put me at L-1, ToD: "Let's see if my FoS works"

Misinterpretation: Check
Putting words in peoples mouths: Check

[zwetschenwasser]

Uncheck all.

[Budja]

Why? Are these short, unsupported posts are meant to make me change my mind?! Get your act together.

[zwetschenwasser]

It wasn't a misinterpretation. I think it was a calculated scum move.

[Tarhalindur]

To cut a long story short, it's a good thing that Sunday when two people went to buy tea happened. It got me thinking about the future of the SOS Brigade, and it successfully lifted Asahina-san's depression. To tell you the truth, I don't know what she perceived, but we seem to have a mutual understanding. There's no point explaining it in detail, especially not to Asahina-san now.

I never mention John Smith in front of Haruhi. This is somewhat like me not telling Asahina-san about the adult Asahina-san; it has a similar meaning. This is the emergency trump card.

If the time comes — —

Well, I don't want that time to come. "

- The Intrigues of Haruhi Suzumiya

The Eleventh Vote Count (aka the "Mirror, Mirror, on the Wall..." Vote Count)

2) malthusis (0)
5) Panzerjager (1) - malthusis
6) veerus (0)
7) ortolan (1) - Panzerjager
9) Percy (0)
10) Trumpet of Doom (1) - Trumpet of Doom
11) Budja (0)
12) afatchic (0)

Not Voting (4): veerus, ortolan, Percy, Budja, afatchic

FoS Count

2) malthusis (0)
5) Panzerjager (0)
6) veerus (0)
7) ortolan (0)
9) Percy (1) - Panzerjager
10) Trumpet of Doom (0)
11) Budja (0)
12) zwetschenwasser (rep. afatchic) (3) - Budja, Percy, Trumpet of Doom

Not FoSing (4): malthusis, veerus, ortolan, zwetschenwasser

FoS'es Required to Lynch:

5

Current Deadline:

March 24, 2009 at ~6:00 CST (GMT -6)

Second Mod Deadline Review:

March 17, 2009 at ~6:00 P.M. CST (GMT -6)

[zwetschenwasser]

Why is there a mirror on the wall?

[malthusis]

Why is there a mirror on the wall?

Why do you think there is? It's probably just flavor text.

[zwetschenwasser]

Or one of his infamous hints for the town like those in MS3.

[Budja]

It wasn't a misinterpretation. I think it was a calculated scum move.

Trumpet of Doom clearly explains that he was replacing his FoS on you as it had been (by error it seems) removed in the votecount. That is clear in his post and you should have noticed it.

I read your meta and you seem to like your short posts. Still, you ought to be able to explain yourself better.

@malthusis, you haven't said much today, what do you think of Zwet and Percy?

[veerus]

Or one of his infamous hints for the town like those in MS3.

This isn't mind screw though... it's a more straightforward game with a lot of power roles.