Open 122 - Near Vanilla (Game over)

[Kreriov]

Almost a whole page of posts since I last checked so I will include the relevant quotes from the Kmd post I am replying to.

Not what I was looking at. You said Emp didn't look scummy before and just as other's jump on him, he's scummy now? Or not even that he's scummy, but he "might" be scum and isn't helpful. I don't like the reasons to vote or the timing of it.

This is a lie. I did NOT say Emp did not look scummy. I basically said his play is so chaotic and uninformative that it could be scummy or it could just be him being stupid. I made no real judgment one way or the other in the early posts to which I think you refer. Again, DO NOT TRY TO TWIST MY WORDS!

I can point out numerous 'scummy' actions by Empking. OMGUS voting is one. Almost no posting and definitely no posting of any substance. Have you looked at some of his posts? Is there even one with more than 2 sentences that are not quotes? Declarative statements with no reasoning or even context, i.e.

Agressive playstyle =/= insultng people so you don't have to do anythng.

Zwet, KMD are town. You're scum.

Where is the reasoning? At one point he says he made a short case. WHERE? In a one line post insulting dejkha?

His continued distraction to the town. That whole OMGUS that is STILL going on is beyond stupid.

Normally I would consider all that scummy behavior. AS I SAID, the only reason I would consider giving all that a pass is because people who have played with Empking before say, well, that is his play style. I never said I did not think he was scum. I said I was not sure. Sorry, I do not care if that is his play style. If it makes him look scummy, well, if it looks like a mafia and it smells like a mafia and it will help the town to assume he is a mafia, well, guess what, I am bringing the rope and serving him spaghetti for his last meal.

I have yet to see a good case on Empking. If he is town, what "info" exactly will you take from his flip. NOBODY ELSE ANSWER. I WANT KRERIOV'S ANSWER TO THIS.

Well, I have already gotten quite a bit of info. For one, the fact that he has gone so long at L-2 is VERY interesting. If he were town, the mafia has had a very good opportunity to lynch with little or no risk or even put him at L-1 and hope a townie finishes him off. Also, look at the interaction between dej and zwet. zwet is looking a bit scummy there. Finally, YOUR actions in particular are very interesting Kmd. You continually try to twist my words. You come to Empkings defense instead of allowing him to speak for himself. I would say that putting my vote on Empking has already generated quite a bit of info.

Should he be lynched, well, what info do you normally get out of a lynch? You see who voted for him and hopefully why they say they did and who didn't vote for him and why. Who defended him (YOU) and who just laid low. hohum and ztife are both voting for him and hohum in particular has been very quiet about it. Ztife put him at L-2, why is he not bandwagoning? Why have you focused on me? Depending on Empking's actual alignment I would be interested in knowing why. The info I would gain is more context to peoples actions or inactions based on the now known fact of Empkings true alignment.

[Kmd4390]

As for lynching emp, i mentioned if we couldn't find scum otherwise, lynching him would be a better choice. Why? Because he's gameplay is scummy (debatable), and its probably not going to change on the other days.

This could be said about anyone. What if I said, "Zt is scummy (debatable), and its probably not going to change"? Would that make you a good lynch?

Basically, I want reasons why Emp is playing in a way that would benefit him more as scum than town, and things he is doing that he would be more likely to as scum than town.

I'll just describe this point as being a useless

townie

.

How do you know he is town? And why wouldn't you prefer to lynch scum?

If emp was town, does lynching him help? Help is an extremely subjective word, but I would see two benefits. 1st, lynching a useless townie is much better off than lynching a townie that might help find scum.

What makes you think Emp can't find scum?

Assuming KMD and EMP were equally scummy, I would prefer to lynch EMP because I think kmd have the potential to contribute more later, while emp have potential to confuse more later. The 2nd benefit is that with a townie that has little to no voice and influence on the rest of the town, it would be easy for the mafias to take advantage off in the later days to make us do a bad lynch.

Considering certain players who refuse to listen to Emp, I can agree with this. He has little persuasive ability in this group. But people should form their own opinions anyway.

If we're going with

unconfident lynches

, we might as well lynch Emp, that's what I'm saying. Because there will be lesser damage compared to later days, and because I don't see any good discussions coming on that will help find even more scummy people.

Why do we have to lynch unconfidently?

I think the scum have a "get out of jail free" card when a player like Empking is in the game. All they have to do is play on the town's opinion of his playstyle and look like frustrated town. Therefore, I also have suspicions on dejkha.

Zwet, yes Zwet (Holy shit) makes a great point here.

Emp, in this game, if town, is what I like to call scumbait. Scum love scummy townies. They blow up what the player is doing because it's an easy lynch and even easier distraction. When called on voting them, they can say, "*shrug* He was scummy."

I rest my case.

I'm actually really seeing the Dej case.

Actually yeah, I'll take this lead over the questionable Emp one.

What lead?

Kreriov, I'll read your post after class.

[Kreriov]

Read it and also please let us all know why you are subtly trying to imply Ztife WANTS to lynch a townie over a scummie. I am getting tired of you putting words in peoples mouths. I refer to this part of your post.

I'll just describe this point as being a useless

townie

.

How do you know he is town? And why wouldn't you prefer to lynch scum?

In no way does Ztife say he wouldn't prefer to lynch scum. This is the same sort of thing you have been trying to do to me. I DO NOT KNOW if Empking is scum or town. I BELIEVE him to be scum but am willing to acknowledge that I may be wrong. Is there a reason you keep defending Empking so vigorously? Is he incapable of speaking himself? THAT is the one thing almost everyone voting or who had a vote on Empking wants, him to actually speak and you keep interfering.

[Kmd4390]

lol @ 10 minute class because Spring Break is next week.

This is a lie. I did NOT say Emp did not look scummy. I basically said his play is so chaotic and uninformative that it could be scummy or it could just be him being stupid.

Orly?

I would second AWA and say attacking Empking is a waste of our time.

I am begining to see what many of you say about Empkings playstyle. The problem is, does this make him scum? (In game that is).

I mentioned that once Rin (that Empking's psychotic posting doesn't necessarily make him scum)

. However, it might.

Is it a waste of time lynching players you think are scummy? If his playstyle isn't scummy, what about him is?

I basically said his play is so chaotic and uninformative that it could be scummy or it could just be him being stupid.

Which do you think is more likely? Why?

I made no real judgment one way or the other in the early posts to which I think you refer.

You specifically said it was a waste of time lynching him. You asked if his playstyle really makes him scum. Hell, you pointed out that you had previously said his playstyle doesn't make him scum IN THE POST WHERE YOU VOTED.

Again, DO NOT TRY TO TWIST MY WORDS!

Even as scum, I don't twist words. Look at all of my scum games and you won't find me doing it.

I can point out numerous 'scummy' actions by Empking. OMGUS voting is one. Almost no posting and definitely no posting of any substance. Have you looked at some of his posts? Is there even one with more than 2 sentences that are not quotes? Declarative statements with no reasoning or even context, i.e.

Not convincing me because I've played with Emp before and that is his town play. But at least you are bringing reasons now.

Well, I have already gotten quite a bit of info. For one, the fact that he has gone so long at L-2 is VERY interesting. If he were town, the mafia has had a very good opportunity to lynch with little or no risk or even put him at L-1 and hope a townie finishes him off. Also, look at the interaction between dej and zwet. zwet is looking a bit scummy there. Finally, YOUR actions in particular are very interesting Kmd. You continually try to twist my words. You come to Empkings defense instead of allowing him to speak for himself. I would say that putting my vote on Empking has already generated quite a bit of info.

Let's see if I follow you. Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. You think:
-He is more likely scum because he has been at L-2 for a long time. This would mean his buddies are NOT on the wagon and decided NOT to bus him. That makes the following players more suspicious if Emp flips scum: Kmd4390 maadneet ac1983fan, Rin Twisted, hewitt, AWA, mufasa.
-Zwet is scummy for his discussion with Dej (how does Emp's flip affect this? Or does it at all?)
-I am scummy for defending Emp. (Does this change based on Emp's flip? If so, how?)

[Kmd4390]

Read it and also please let us all know why you are subtly trying to imply Ztife WANTS to lynch a townie over a scummie. I am getting tired of you putting words in peoples mouths. I refer to this part of your post.

I'll just describe this point as being a useless

townie

.

How do you know he is town? And why wouldn't you prefer to lynch scum?

It's a suspicion. Let him answer it himself.

In no way does Ztife say he wouldn't prefer to lynch scum.

He calls Emp a useless townie. He wants him lynched.

This is the same sort of thing you have been trying to do to me. I DO NOT KNOW if Empking is scum or town. I BELIEVE him to be scum but am willing to acknowledge that I may be wrong.

It looked like your vote was out of policy and your opinion completely changed as soon as others started to vote him. THAT is suspicious.

Is there a reason you keep defending Empking so vigorously?

I don't like the wagon on him. Either he is town and scum are attacking him, or his buddies are bussing. I think regardless of his flip, we will find scum on the wagon.

Is he incapable of speaking himself? THAT is the one thing almost everyone voting or who had a vote on Empking wants, him to actually speak and you keep interfering.

How am I interfering? If (that's a BIG if) someone actually brings a good case on him, I won't stop him from responding.

[ZazieR]

The '

Vig Kmd

' votecount:


Kmd4390(0)
ac1983fan(0)
dejkha(1) - Empking('s alt)
hohum(0)
maadneet(0)
zwetschenwasser(1) - Dejkha
Kreriov(1) - Kreriov
Rin Twisted(0)
Ztife(0)
hewitt(0)

Empking(4) - hohum, zwetschenwasser, Kreriov, Ztife

AWA(0)
Mufasa(1) - maadneet

Not voting(5) - ac1983fan, Rin Twisted, hewitt, AWA, mufasa

With 13 alive, you'll need 7 votes to lynch.
Note: Green indicates closest to lynch.

I'll miss you AWA (will search for a replacement)
(Happy "Constant Vigilance" Day! My victim is shown in the vote count title )

[Kmd4390]

The '

Vig Kmd

' votecount:

(Happy "Constant Vigilance" Day! My victim is shown in the vote count title )

Even the Mod is against me.

Guess I'm screwed.

[Empking]

Ac:

including OMGUS voting]

You voted with OMGUS motivations. Dejkha was not lying.

Do I need to post the wiki again?

[Kreriov]

No, you need to stop being a fool and realize that dejkha considers voting for someone because you are pissed off at them as OMGUS. I guess you could say dejkha is more interested in the spirit of the 'law' than the letter. Do you understand now?

It doesn't matter is she is correct or not. Every other person in this game understands exactly what dejkha means when accusing you of OMGUS voting. Your failure to understand this fact , accept it, and continued pointless posting is just more fuel for the fire. Or rope for the hanging if you prefer.

[Empking]

No, you need to stop being a fool and realize that dejkha considers voting for someone because you are pissed off at them as OMGUS. I guess you could say dejkha is more interested in the spirit of the 'law' than the letter. Do you understand now?

It doesn't matter is she is correct or not. Every other person in this game understands exactly what dejkha means when accusing you of OMGUS voting. Your failure to understand this fact , accept it, and continued pointless posting is just more fuel for the fire. Or rope for the hanging if you prefer.

If Dejkha is using language, just so I can't understand his accusations and defend myself from it. Shouldn't that be a scum tell?

So its like this?

He stole from me

No I didn't

Yes, you said "pink Unicorn"

That's not what "stole" means.

Dejkhsa is more interested in the spirit of the law not the rule of the law.

Did I edit it correctly, Empking?

[dejkha]

What lead?

The one where Zwet repeatedly lies low when attention turns off of him and denies how his posts are useless and much, much less frequent during this time, even when I prove it. Emp is a wild card, so I'm more willing to give him the BoTD that it's just his playstyle, but I know Zwets play isn't nearly as scummy as his, so I think Zwet's more likely to be scum out of the two.

It doesn't matter is

she

is correct or not.

By "she", do you mean me? Because I'm a dude >_>

[Ztife]

KMD, im sure my posts were at times lengthy and probably hard to take in at times. Your quotes are like, quoting "LYNCH KMD" from "I WILL NOT LYNCH KMD".

As for lynching emp, i mentioned if we couldn't find scum otherwise, lynching him would be a better choice. Why? Because he's gameplay is scummy (debatable), and its probably not going to change on the other days.

This could be said about anyone. What if I said, "Zt is scummy (debatable), and its probably not going to change"? Would that make you a good lynch?

Basically, I want reasons why Emp is playing in a way that would benefit him more as scum than town, and things he is doing that he would be more likely to as scum than town.

I'll just describe this point as being a useless

townie

.

How do you know he is town? And why wouldn't you prefer to lynch scum?

Read the full paragraphs. I said Emp's help is so bad that it looks scummy, and thus it is difficult to determine which side he is on. Thus I'm going to refer him as useless townie for the sake of easier reference, since if I use scum to describe him it will confuse the whole situation alot more, as I don't see him as exactly scum, but a combination of scummy + random/useless.

Rephrasing and paraphrasing more and more gets even more confusing, so I'll just put the point forms to what I'm saying hoping you can read better.

IMHO.
- Emp's playstyle is unpredictable, and useless in scum hunting. All he provides are obvious points, or useless accusations with ambiguious reasoning.
- From this, he has an equal chance of being scum or townie imho (its imho since I've said that its debatable)
- If we lynch him and he's scum then its good for us. If we lynch him and he's town, at least he was useless.

What makes you think Emp can't find scum?

I've already said, his posts are ambiguous and his answers just redirects the ambiguity.

If we're going with

unconfident lynches

, we might as well lynch Emp, that's what I'm saying. Because there will be lesser damage compared to later days, and because I don't see any good discussions coming on that will help find even more scummy people.

Why do we have to lynch unconfidently?

I don't know how to explain this to you otherwise, or my wording is just bad. I didn't say we have to lynch unconfidently. I said

if

we were to lynch unconfidently, emp is a better choice, blah blah blah.

So this in regards to the above (since i posted them in one post before anyway, it was suppose to co-relate).

If we can't tell emp is scum or town (useless townie description), lynching him is better than taking a wild guess at anyone. Basically what I've answered in this post is just rephrasing what I've said earlier in the same post. I have some new suspicion and theories and I'll post them accumulatively in the next post. I believe what you've asked and answered in here is mostly just an issue of phrasing. "useless townie, if, unconfident lynches,"

[Ztife]

To paraphrase AGAIN, when I don't see him as exactly scum, I mean I don't have enough reasons to believe he is scum, even though I feel that there are reasons that might make him scum. Thus being in the grey area.

[Ztife]

Basically, I want reasons why Emp is playing in a way that would benefit him more as scum than town, and things he is doing that he would be more likely to as scum than town.

Emp, in this game, if town, is what I like to call scumbait. Scum love scummy townies. They blow up what the player is doing because it's an easy lynch and even easier distraction. When called on voting them, they can say, "*shrug* He was scummy."

Great, this is where I think we have different POVs.

In contrast, is there reasons how Emp is playing will benefit him as town more than scum? And things that he is doing will be more likely benefit town?

If he is scum, he could be taking a big gamble by acting the newbie/idiot, since you all have already pictured him in this "newbie townie", it might be a good strategy to play it the same if he was maf. Its as good as saying "I'm a newbie townie, so I look scummy, im trying to contribute look I've explained what's OMGUS, therefore XXX is scummy since he OMGUS". Using a extremely straightforward maf playstyle. Essentially saying "I-can't-be-maf-since-its-too-obvious.
This is not a strong reason, which is why I'm doubtful if he was mafia at all, but that doesn't make him town either.

If he is town, what benefits does his playstyle generate? Perhaps you can give me some insights at your townie-game-meta.

About your scum meta, I would have to disagree. I would keep scummy townies to bring into later days rather than lynching them out in early days. Why? Suppose I'm scum, I know emp is scummy, I will keep to the days where I'm on the chopping board, then I'll dig out reasons why emp is scummy in the first place. Not to mention emp is a scummy player with a lousy scum-hunt imho. That's like a goldmine for scums. Keeping him around until the need arises then use him as a shield. If he's scummy, he will be lynched sooner or later. Why rush? Might as well lynch the more active aggressor townies who ask too much questions and tries to question and attack at every single suspicion.

I haven't read krev's reply and kmd's reply at krev, I'll do it tml after work.

[zwetschenwasser]

I like KMD now...

[Mufasa]

unvote vote: Empking

[dejkha]

^Can't argue that reasoning.

[hewitt]

Okay sorry I have been gone for like...ever. Spring break, college student, you know how it goes haha. Anyways I've got to say all this Empking discussion with the big long paragraphs just annoys me because I feel like it can be summed up so much easier.

When Empking is town- he is useless and mafia love him because he fucks over the town.

When Empking is mafia- he is just plain useless.

I would say take a good look at the people who have been attacked so far this game and then take up an attack on Empking...he's an easy out for scum players because everybody wants to lynch him and it takes the attention off them.

[zwetschenwasser]

Way to plagiarize my logic...

[ac1983fan]

Way to plagiarize my logic...

It's not plagiarizing unles he used your words exactly.

[Kmd4390]

unvote vote: Empking

Wanna back this up?

Way to plagiarize my logic...

It's not plagiarizing unles he used your words exactly.

Not true.

[zwetschenwasser]

ac, don't be like empking with his OMGUS technicality crap please. You know what I mean.

[Kmd4390]

ac, don't be like empking with his OMGUS technicality crap please. You know what I mean.

Don't back down. You are right. It technically IS plagiarism.

[zwetschenwasser]

STOP! NO MORE OF THESE USELESS DIVERGENCeS.

[Kmd4390]

STOP! NO MORE OF THESE USELESS DIVERGENCeS.

I almost want to sig that just because it's you.