Mini 753 - Really Deep South (Game over!)

[Skander]

Are we waiting for anything in particular? I don't understand why neko isn't lynched yet.

I thought we were waiting for a claim, or do people not claim at L-2 here?

[farside22]

Are we waiting for anything in particular? I don't understand why neko isn't lynched yet.

I thought we were waiting for a claim, or do people not claim at L-2 here?

neko is on vacation till the 14th.
Either we wait or find someone else we feel needs pressure.

[charter]

Yeah I suppose, but I don't see how you can ignore his ties to ABR regardless of his claim.

[Skander]

Yeah I suppose, but I don't see how you can ignore his ties to ABR regardless of his claim.

True. And seeing how he's away for a bit I guess it's not worth waiting for.

Vote Neko

[Raging Rabbit]

vote count 2

neko 5 (roflcopter, farside, charter, DGB, Skander)
vollkan 1 (Korts)

Not voting - vollkan, CarnCarn, neko, mathusius

10 alive, 6 to lynch.


Korts will be replaced, as per his request.

Afternoon is about 17 hours away.

[DrippingGoofball]

Mod: can neko be temporarily replaced?

We need a claim, we can't hold off lynching the scummiest candidate for VLA reasons, in a speed game.

[farside22]

Mod: can neko be temporarily replaced?

We need a claim, we can't hold off lynching the scummiest candidate for VLA reasons, in a speed game.

I agree with the above ^. We can camouflage the person who replaces Neko and just call them neko2.

[neko2086]

Ack! Sorry, I finally got some access for a little bit. Let me claim at least, then you can replace me. It's important that I do it.

[neko2086]

I'm the jailkeeper. The reason why I was a little confused yesterday was because I imprisoned ABR (I'll explain why in a bit). The fact that he was talking with the mod didn't even register with me as something to take note of, so I was wondering how rofl could be so sure ABR was scum. I thought rofl might have said he was a target sensor or something and was roleblocked by ABR or something, in which case he'd probably be lying unless I was roleblocked by someone. Otherwise, I thought rofl might just be going off gut or making a brash statement. After ABR's statement about talking to the mod was pointed out, that made more sense.

Now, I chose ABR because after thinking about how the role works, and trying to scope out how others have used the role in the past, it seems like the choice has to keep the following in account:

1. The target will be protected (good if town, bad if scum)
2. The target will be roleblocked (bad if town, good if scum)
3. Anyone targeting the target will be blocked (the ramifications of this depend on who is targeting whom and what their intentions are--lots of variables)

ABR seemed like a really good choice because it eliminates lots of possibility for collateral damage because:
1. No investigative role is going to waste their time with ABR. I get to avoid blocking results
2. If he was scum, obviously, he might have sent in the NK and be blocked (this is partially why I was resistant to the lynch, though he probably wasn't going to send in the kill anyway even if he did live)

The one thing I did overlook was the protecting ability. For some reason, I thought it might be possible that scum would try to take out a miller, especially if everyone seemed to believe his claim (which I think most of us leaned toward).

I've never had this role before, so I decided that hedging my bets was the best way to play this round. After I could get a better read on people, I'd hopefully have better success in using the role effectively, and have a better idea whether protecting or roleblocking is more important.


Feedback is appreciated.

[charter]

I call bs. No one would target ABR and he had no night action. So much BS. The only acceptable reason for targetting ABR was you didn't believe him to be miller and thought he would submit a scum kill. You said way too much more than that.

Anyone going to counter?

[neko2086]

No one targeting ABR was one of the reasons I chose him. I didn't want to interfere with investigations. Did you actually read what I wrote?

[charter]

Yes I read it. And I will say again, the ONLY reason for a jailkeeper to target a miller is if they believe them to be scum. You threw in like two other reasons, which are bs.

[neko2086]

K, so you think I'm much more likely to be making this up than to have made a mistake out of ignorance?

[charter]

Actually, I need to think about this. I've only ever seen a jailkeeper live past N1 in one game, and it turned out to win the game for town.

unvote

[farside22]

Right now I'm going to unvote but if neko is alive come the day I want to know the who and why of his ability as soon as possible.

unvote

Need to think.

[roflcopter]

neko, have you used your ability yet today?

[Raging Rabbit]

Populartajo replaces Korts.

Happy times.

[Korts]

thanks pop!

[neko2086]

rofl, no. I don't think the morning phase is over yet anyway.

[vollkan]

Are we waiting for anything in particular? I don't understand why neko isn't lynched yet.

At the point of your writing this, D2 had been going for just 2 days and Neko had yet to even post on D2, yet alone claim. I'm curious...why would it make sense for town to lynch in such a situation?

I call bs. No one would target ABR and he had no night action. So much BS. The only acceptable reason for targetting ABR was you didn't believe him to be miller and thought he would submit a scum kill. You said way too much more than that.

The other reasons are legitimate. Sure, suspicion of ABR is clearly the most important thing, but I don't see why you can so bluntly dismiss the rest of it as "bs".

[charter]

At the point of your writing this, D2 had been going for just 2 days and Neko had yet to even post on D2, yet alone claim. I'm curious...why would it make sense for town to lynch in such a situation?

DGB answered this in 280, why must you ask after it has already been answered? Time is an important factor in this game. Giving a suspect more time gives him and his scumbuddies more time to come up with a more convincing fakeclaim than ABR's.

The other reasons are legitimate. Sure, suspicion of ABR is clearly the most important thing, but I don't see why you can so bluntly dismiss the rest of it as "bs".

Explain to me how the other reasons are legitimate.

[populartajo]

Hi, people. Wll try to reread as soon as possible and come up with the scum in my first post, again....
Anything important I should know?

[vollkan]

At the point of your writing this, D2 had been going for just 2 days and Neko had yet to even post on D2, yet alone claim. I'm curious...why would it make sense for town to lynch in such a situation?

DGB answered this in 280, why must you ask after it has already been answered? Time is an important factor in this game. Giving a suspect more time gives him and his scumbuddies more time to come up with a more convincing fakeclaim than ABR's.

For starters, I was asking you and not DGB. When I want her reasoning, I will ask for it.

Secondly, and more importantly, DGB in no way "answered" the question I asked you. Consider what she said

Mod: can neko be temporarily replaced?

We need a claim, we can't hold off lynching the scummiest candidate for VLA reasons, in a speed game

(bolding mine)

And, yes, I agree with the bolded. We can't be stuck with a VLA L-1 in this game. Having said that, there is an enormous distinction between what DGB said and what you said, which I quote again:

Are we waiting for anything in particular? I don't understand why neko isn't lynched yet.

DGB wants to hurry things alone, by having a temp replacement so that the proper processes can be duly carried out.

You, in contrast, want a quick lynch.

And yes, delaying in time does give scum more time to plan a fakeclaim. But, I would argue, that said cost (which is actually fairly minor, given that scum can and do plan in advance and that it isn't exactly something which requires real-time days of contemplation) is more than offset by the cost of jumping into a lynch too quickly.

The other reasons are legitimate. Sure, suspicion of ABR is clearly the most important thing, but I don't see why you can so bluntly dismiss the rest of it as "bs".

Explain to me how the other reasons are legitimate.

Thankyou for ignoring me and instead simply asking me the obverse of my point. It does wonders for my opinion of you to see that whilst you won't explain your reasons, you are prepared to ask me mine.

To go through Neko's reasons:

1. The target will be protected (good if town, bad if scum)

Makes perfect sense. Sure, it doesn't count for much at all, since scum is very very unlikely to target a claimed miller, but it's legit, if not very powerful.

2. The target will be roleblocked (bad if town, good if scum)

This is the clearest advantage for the action if ABR is scum, so no problem here.

3. Anyone targeting the target will be blocked (the ramifications of this depend on who is targeting whom and what their intentions are--lots of variables)

Neko isn't making a judgment here

1. No investigative role is going to waste their time with ABR. I get to avoid blocking results

Yup, completely true. Sure, the odds of blocking a result role are low, but it doesn't render this BS.

2. If he was scum, obviously, he might have sent in the NK and be blocked (this is partially why I was resistant to the lynch, though he probably wasn't going to send in the kill anyway even if he did live)

I don't think it justifies being resistant to the lynch, but it is valid that he may block a kill.

[DrippingGoofball]

Anything important I should know?

Yes, neko fakeclaimed.

[charter]

For starters, I was asking you and not DGB.

I gave a reason too. Prevent fakeclaiming fabrication.

But, I would argue, that said cost (which is actually fairly minor, given that scum can and do plan in advance and that it isn't exactly something which requires real-time days of contemplation) is more than offset by the cost of jumping into a lynch too quickly.

I argue that the increased credibility of a fakeclaim is worse than a quicklynch.

Makes perfect sense. Sure, it doesn't count for much at all, since scum is very very unlikely to target a claimed miller, but it's legit, if not very powerful.

Scum will never target a miller. Find me even one case where it has happened. No town protective role is wisely spent on a miller. There are virtually no roles worse than a miller. No other town power is well used on a miller.

The other points boil down to protecting a miller (absolutely the worst choice imaginable) or preventing a scummiller from making a kill (only valid reason). No role that should be included in games is worse than a miller (and even millers are iffy).