Mini 727 - Mafia in Standardville - Game Over

[Lowell]

^^^^ makes less sense than me

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

Lowell (2) - Tubby216, Charter
Freeko (1) - Lowell

Not Voting (2) - Freeko, Master Ruck

With five alive it takes three votes to lynch

[tubby216]

Hell why not. I have more reason to think your vanilla claim is a fake. If you had anything to counter my claim on the other hand, then I wouldnt mind being lynched to guarantee a win. The problem I see is that a policy lynch on me doesnt guarantee a win, especially if someone flips town at this point. If there are 2 scum then the game is over. It could in fact guarantee a loss.

The only other scenario is that someone is blocking the possoible SK in tubby and the roles are 3-1-1. Even that doesnt bode well for the town if you remove a town player on the lynch. My plan would be to lynch tubby and remove the possible SK. If you are going to lynch anyone today just on suspicion, shouldnt you be lynching someone who at least has a chance to flip scum? I think lynching me is as absurd as lynching MR at this point.

so hammer lowell , why cause if its not you and its not mr then guess what it ain't me or charter so it must be lowell, can we lynch him now

[Master Ruck]

no you are talking yourself out of it,, we lynch lowell first,

it makes sense, no granted panzer did out him as scum but to me it would makes sense that panzer would out just one of his partners and point a finger at a townie hoping we would lynch the townie first there by proving lowell's innocence, so i say yah lynch lowell

vote: lowell

While you have a point there, tub, I think you're also forgetting that panzer claimed Artifex (now Freeko) as a scum mate as well. That logic applies as much to Lowell as it does to Freeko.

I think lynching me is as absurd as lynching MR at this point.

As

absurd? No, I don't see that. Lynching me before you is absurd thanks to your tracker claim and result, but it's still just a claim which could still be a lie.

I would like to point out that this is the second Tracker claim in this game, the first being Panzer on the day of his lynching. Whether it be genuine or convenience, Artifex was nowhere to be seen to counterclaim and that inactivity eventually resulted in his replacement. This has me inclined to believe that his inactivity was genuine, but if Freeko is scum, then scum would know that as there was no counterclaim to the role making it free to fake later in the game and make them look more useful, thus prolonging their life.

This next point is quite weak and I don't want to rest too heavily on it, but I'm out-guessing the setup a bit here and saying that if Freeko is scum, then it looks to be a fairly balanced game if all other claims are to be believed. 6 vanillas, 3 scum and 3 town power roles. If I'm wrong and Lowell is the last scum, then we have 5 vanillas, 3 scum and 4 power roles.

My last observation for now was also during the end of panzer. Look back at the votals and you'll see that Dan and Artifex never voted. Dan we know now is scum, so I'm thinking it may have been the plan to have all scum not vote if possible and allow town to lynch themselves. Then, the following day the lynch could be examined and another mislynch may have occured as a result. Even if this is not the case, scum may have just not wanted to tie themselves down with a vote and be noticed or enter conversation.

I'm still keeping myself open to the possibility of lowell being scum, but I'm not willing to let go of Freeko yet either and I'm currently wavering between the two as to who I would want to vote for.

[charter]

FREEKO, do you realize that if you are town, THE ONLY possible thing for you to do is lynch lowell?
If you even hint at suspicion of MR, you should burn in the fiery chasms of hell. You've said you think I'm town. I've said tubby is town. That leaves only one person for you.

MASTER RUCK, do you also realize that if you are town, that it's either lowell or freeko that is scum? You've said you think I'm town. I've said tubby is town. That means it's either freeko or lowell, so it's lynch one today (Lowell now since he's admitted to being scum) and freeko tomorrow if the game isn't over by some miracle.

[tubby216]

[charter]

What now?

[tubby216]

just mr and freeko its just to easy i guess

[tubby216]

here is how i see either we tie our wagons to charter here and we lynch lowell, or we say screw it charter is full of crap and we lynch charter,, i mean charter has gotten us this far and is the only reason the game has progressed this far.

[charter]

tubby, the reason why I asked everyone if they thought I was town is because my plan WILL work. There is NO chance of not winning if we lynch freeko today and when he flips town, Lowell tomorrow. Scum have surely realized this by now, and they will change their position on it. Lowell has done this with his backpedaling earlier.

If you guys all were to seriously decide that I'm scum and lynch me, then you had better lynch Lowell tomorrow. I'm not sure how you can possibly argue this when I've been pushing for scum to be lynched literally the whole game.

I'm fine with abandoning my plan because in my eyes the chance of Lowell being town and both freeko and MR being scum is almost zero.

[charter]

Freeko, if you don't vote Lowell in your next post I will vote you and will not move until you are lynched today.

[freeko]

I've said tubby is town

Everything else I am fine with, except this. Can you really be sure about this? Back this up with SOMETHING. For now I just dont see it. Then again, I dont see a great many things, so I guess it is what it is.

I cant possibly fathom that you would bus all your buddies just to make yourself look town. Especially with how you turned on panzer. Panzer then turns around and names both lowell and what ends up being myself as scum mates. This makes me think that you might be putting on a show here. It doesnt really matter in the end if there is one scum or all scum, if you stay alive then you cannot lose if you are a scum right?

That you are already talking about the next lynch makes me think there is plausibility here. Could you really be trying to line up the 2 remaining lynches you need to win the game as the last scum? You said you dont know if there is one scum or two, then on the other hand you are certain that todays lynch is irrelevant and that there is another day. Parfect information possibly?

Maybe I am looking at this the wrong way. I still like tubby for an SK and I think there may be a 3-1-1 split here. Something you seem to ignore as a possibility completely. I could just be overthinking this here though. I'd rather have all the cards out on the table than overlook something that loses the game.

[charter]

I hid behind tubby, he is not scum. That is why I ignore this as a possibility, and yes, you are definately overthinking.

If you lynch lowell today, tubby will be killed at night, then you can lynch me tomorrow.

[charter]

Even if tubby isn't killed at night and MR is, you can still lynch me tomorrow because it will be the same situation with me and tubby as it is with you and MR right now.

[freeko]

So tubby couldnt be a 3rd party then? I have always assumed (possibly incorrectly) that an SK is a 3rd party player, at least that is how the wiki states it.

[charter]

If he was, I'd be dead.

[tubby216]

^exactly

[charter]

If somehow the game isn't over after we lynch Lowell, then I think whoever is alive tomorrow needs to rely soley on scumhunting, cause I think that means there's someone left who is undetectable through night actions.

[freeko]

If he was, I'd be dead.

Umm.. I am missing something. Hence I post the wiki for Hider and SK:

Hider: The Hider has the ability to target one player each night. If that player is pro-town, the hider is protected from Night-Kills that night. If the player targeted is killed that same night, the Hider dies too. If the player targeted is Mafia, the hider usually dies.

SK: The Serial Killer is a lone killer without allegiance. The Serial Killer kills once per night, and his goal is to be the sole survivor. Frequently they are not allowed by the Game Moderator to forgo their night kill.

Again, possible blatant overthinking here... very much so speculation. Short version is , something doesnt make sense. Hider only auto dies if he hides behind a mafia. SK is 3rd party and not mafia. Maybe I dont understand the roles interaction, which wouldnt be the first time I made that mistake this game, so would you be able to clarify why or how a hider would die if the SK were the one that was hidden behind. I just dont quite get it.

[Master Ruck]

freeko, I'm not buying tubby as a SK. He claimed D3 as a one-shot vig. If he was a SK then there should only be, at most, one death per night from then on. If he claimed a one-shot vig then 2 deaths occured the next night, all his credibility goes down the drain and he'd pretty much be lynched immediately. Saying he's less than a one-shot is a massive risk for a SK as it only takes one more unblocked death to out him.

Charter, did I not make it clear that I thought the scum was between freeko and lowell? I'm trying to establish which one we should lynch as I don't think you realise just how important it is that we get this right first time. If we mislynch, there's 3:1 town:scum. In normal circumstances, no big deal as even with the scum kill there's enough town to make another day come.

However

you still have to hide behind someone, charter, and this time the scum have a 50:50 chance of killing the person you're behind and kill 2 people in one shot. This would actually end the game so I'd rather not just rush into a mislynch as tomorrow is not a guarantee.

[charter]

Ok, I was just not going to say this, but I will. I've lied about my role so much it's not even funny. The reason I have done this is to trick scum. Now, I know what you are thinking, town doesn't trick scum, scum trick town, that's how this game works. Well, I will point to exhibit A, Darox. I feel I can come clean now, because Lowell has already incriminated himself.

Night one, I hid behind Artem.
Night two, I did no action.
Night three, I did no action.

I do not need to hide behind someone each night. I lied about this day two because it will not affect any townie choices in the slightest. It does, however, greatly affect scum choices. As I said after I claimed day two, me and the scum get to play outguess, and I won that battle greatly. I lied because I was not sure if I would use it again in the future when I claimed, but scum thinking I would would hinder then, thus helping town. And I weighed the risks of me dying versus some other role, and hider is about as close to cop (in my opinion the role most valuable to cop) as you can get, so I decided that the risk of killing other power roles outweighed the risk of hider dying.

Now, I've claimed tubby to be town today, but I did that with Darox yesterday (though that was to trick scum into killing Darox, and it worked...). No, I'm not positive like I was with Artem, but I am nearly sure. As SK, you CAN NOT out yourself like tubby did. The logical explanation is he is indeed a one shot vig or a JOAT or something. Tubby claiming responsibility for that kill guarantees he cannot win as a SK, so I assume that he is indeed town aligned.

So yes, you both are thinking this through quite clearly, and if either of you was scum, you would have hammered already because like MR says, you would be thinking you have a 50% chance of winning. The reality is, I'm not going to hide again tonight, and there will be a tomorrow, and town will win.

[Master Ruck]

Result. Having another day makes me feel better about this now so I'd be happy to hammer Lowell, though I'll leave it a little so others can say their bit.

[charter]

Ok, now that I said that, forget all my "forget everything I ever said comments" those were there in case scum figured out I wasn't hiding, killed me, and you guys assumed that darox or tubby were town, cause I had said so, when I wasn't actually sure.

There is nothing left to say. I bet my entire mafia career Lowell is scum. Stop, Hammer Time!

[Lowell]

Ha. Freeko is scum, and he's alone.

1) The only way MR could be scum is if freeko is lying. In which case they'd BOTH be scum. They've BOTH had the opportunity to hammer me for the win, which they haven't done.

2) If only one of MR or freeko is scum, it has to be freeko (as charter said and I now agree with), unless there are some strange mechanics we're not understanding.

lynch freeko today.

^^^ remember this if I'm dead.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count Bump