Mini 745 - Moving Day Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[Porkens]

Also, why have you put so much effort into your wiki and none into improving your play?

The only reason I can think of is that you are intentionally setting up a meta for yourself for when you are eventually scum.

Top of page 19 vote count:

Porkens 1 (ac1983fan)

Not voting: Jazzmyn, Erratus Apathos, ZEEnon, Porkens, Herodotus, Tovarish, Zer0ph34r, don_johnson

With 9 still packing it takes 5 to lynch.

Note: this vote count should be accurate as of this post.

Prods: Tovarish

Replacing ZEEnon

[ac1983fan]

Zerophear reminds me of my playstyle back when I first started.
Relatively ignorant, contributing almost nothing, lurking like hell regardless of my alignment.
The only difference is I never claimed scum when I wasn't and I used aim slang/horrible spelling.

[Jazzmyn]

I think that q21 being "shovelled to death" and buried alive sounds more like the work of mafia, while dejkha being "cut into pieces" sounds more like the work of a serial killer.

Catching up on the new day's posts. Man, you guys write a lot during the daytime hours while I am at work. I'll just write this as I read the posts, sorry for any unnecessary duplication.

However, my reaction was out of proportion and petulant.

It happens. But you've apologized, which indicates you've learned from it, so don't sweat it.

I will continue to participate in the game and interact with everyone.

This is a good thing.

I'm really surprised at dejkha's death.

I'm more surprised about the fact that q21 was a cop.

Me, too. And it feels just a little bit 'off' somehow to me that Porkens expressed surprise at dejkha's death and none at all about the revelation that Q21 was the cop. Hmm.

He was a strange choice for a scum kill imo.

I agree that he seems an unusual choice for a scum kill in light of the suspicion on him. I know it's all WIFOM and probably of limited value as a result, but still, one would think that scum would prefer him alive today as a lynch target in the circumstances.

i am always suspicious of the first to post on day 2. especially when they write:

Well, that sucks... we lost our cop and a townie.

we can all read. added commentary like that above is usually considered a "scum tell".

Yeah, I have seen lots of players call this a scum tell, but I don't agree. In my early games, I posted similar things as town when I saw the results of the scum's night actions upon the dawn of a new day, but that was just me posting my first reaction to learning of the events. I don't post things like that any more, simply because so many people claim that it's a scum tell, but I still don't agree that it is, at least not if it's done by fairly new players.

He was a strange choice for a scum kill imo.

Why do you think he was a strange choice for a SK?

I take it from reading this in context that by "SK" in the bolded sentence, you are referring to a "scum kill" rather than a "serial killer", yes?

He was a strange choice for an SK because he had a lot of suspicion on him (might have gotten hung if I hadn't hammered K7) and probably would have gotten himself hung sooner or later. Seems like a waste of a nightkill.

Ok, I agree with this... though there could have been a motive we can't see. Maybe if Zero is the SK, he was worried his brother might be able to figure it out from out-of-game information. Or something Dejkha said worried the SK.

Okay, now I'm confused. In this exchange, it seems that Herod is using SK to mean "serial killer" rather than "scum kill" but that doesn't follow from the preceding exchange. Can you please clarify, Herod?

More in a bit, as I've realized that it's probably better to read the rest of the posts before continuing since these points may have already been addressed, etc.

Regards,
Jazz

[Herodotus]

He was a strange choice for a scum kill imo.

Why do you think he was a strange choice for a SK?

I take it from reading this in context that by "SK" in the bolded sentence, you are referring to a "scum kill" rather than a "serial killer", yes?

No, I meant serial killer. I must have read his post too quickly, and I was also assuming Dejkha was serial-killed, and so that was what he'd be talking about.

Given that he was chopped up into bits, I'm assuming he was SK'd and not vig'd. He was a strange choice for a scum kill imo.

Kinda funny that Porkens didn't notice what you pointed out here. It may implicate him, though I'm not sure ATM that it does. I wish I could say it was an intentional trap, but it wasn't.

[ZEEnon]

I am no longer able to commit to this game, therefore, I have already asked to be replaced. Thank you.

Looking

[Herodotus]

A point of strategy:
Assuming the kills were mafia(Q21) and serial killer(Dejkha):

Hunting for the SK is not as important to the town as hunting for the mafia.

Consequently:

The SK should claim now

(assuming we are right that there is an SK.)
SK's are typically Night-Kill-immune. Even if you are not, you can say that you are and the scum will believe you. They won't want to waste a NK failing to kill you, so they won't try. They will have to endgame you or push for your lynch.
But, the town will not lynch you, because you have a major goal in common with us -- the whittling down and elimination of the mafia. That you chose Dejkha to kill last night (I assume that you believed him to be mafia) means you recognize that you don't want the mafia to get too far ahead, and now that our cop is gone, our odds of killing the mafia in the future have decreased. So we know that you'll be trying to take out the mafia, especially given the threat that they could become a majority soon. Also, knowing that you are the SK will help us find the mafia.

[Porkens]

I'm far more surprised that dejkha died than I am that q21 was the cop and got killed.

[Herodotus]

I'm far more surprised that dejkha died than I am that q21 was the cop and got killed.

It wasn't that Q21 got killed that surprised me; it was the fact that he was a cop. I will explain this after the reread that I plan to make.
I can see potential reasons for an SK killing Dejkha, but let's let him/her explain that when they claim. Speculation could possibly be harmful when we should be finding out the truth soon.

[Porkens]

He was a strange choice for a scum kill imo.

Why do you think he was a strange choice for a SK?

I take it from reading this in context that by "SK" in the bolded sentence, you are referring to a "scum kill" rather than a "serial killer", yes?

No, I meant serial killer. I must have read his post too quickly, and I was also assuming Dejkha was serial-killed, and so that was what he'd be talking about.

Given that he was chopped up into bits, I'm assuming he was SK'd and not vig'd. He was a strange choice for a scum kill imo.

Kinda funny that Porkens didn't notice what you pointed out here. It may implicate him, though I'm not sure ATM that it does. I wish I could say it was an intentional trap, but it wasn't.

okay, I must really be missing something here, then. What "didn't I notice"?

[Herodotus]

Oh. Actually Porkens and I were consistent all along.
You (Porkens) said he was a strange choice for a scum kill. (Maybe Jazzmyn interprets this as strictly meaning mafia-kill?)
Then I asked why he was a strange choice for a serial killer-kill. (which is a specific variety of scum kill)
Then you answered that question.

If one was to assume that "scum kill"="mafia kill", then my question would be incredibly out-of-place. And so would your answer.

The reason for my question was that I agreed Dejkha would be a strange choice for a mafia kill, but I didn't think he was too bad of a choice for a serial killer.

[Zer0ph34r]

ac, how am I ignorant? And when have I ever used AIM slang or had terrible spelling?

[Porkens]

ac, how am I ignorant? And when have I ever used AIM slang or had terrible spelling?

...too easy

[ac1983fan]

ac, how am I ignorant? And when have I ever used AIM slang or had terrible spelling?

I meant i never claimed I was scum when I wasn't, and I used terrible spelling/grammar/aim slang.
Also, your seeming refusal to change your playstyle/method of playing makes you somewhat like I was.

[raider8169]

Sotty7 replaces ZEEnon!

[don_johnson]

would like to hear from sotty7.

Also, why have you put so much effort into your wiki and none into improving your play?

The only reason I can think of is that you are intentionally setting up a meta for yourself for when you are eventually scum.

the first question makes some sense. however, i doubt that someone would play several games poorly just to establish meta for when they are scum.

Zero: who is your top suspect and why?

[ac1983fan]

unvote

Consequently:

The SK should claim now

(assuming we are right that there is an SK.)
SK's are typically Night-Kill-immune. Even if you are not, you can say that you are and the scum will believe you. They won't want to waste a NK failing to kill you, so they won't try. They will have to endgame you or push for your lynch.
But, the town will not lynch you, because you have a major goal in common with us -- the whittling down and elimination of the mafia. That you chose Dejkha to kill last night (I assume that you believed him to be mafia) means you recognize that you don't want the mafia to get too far ahead, and now that our cop is gone, our odds of killing the mafia in the future have decreased. So we know that you'll be trying to take out the mafia, especially given the threat that they could become a majority soon. Also, knowing that you are the SK will help us find the mafia.

This feels like such a trap, but it also makes logical sense.

Claim - Serial Killer

I killed dejkha last night because he felt like the scummiest to me. I wasn't expecting their to be that much flavor in the night scene, but...

Assuming there is three mafia (the most likely amount), lynching me today would be a mistake for the town, as it would very likely put you in lynch or lose tomorrow. If we go after mafia today and are successful, then the town and myself will both be closer to winning. If we go after the mafia today but hit a townie instead, and I don't hit mafia tonight, the town will have already lost, and it would just be between myself and the mafia. So basically, lynching me today is not your best course of action.

[Sotty7]

I'm here.

Reading.

Will be up to date ASAP

[Zer0ph34r]

Porkens, what do you mean by "too easy"? And my number one suspect is either herodotus or Jazmyn. Have people forgot about her? She seems to be playing under the radar or something. She, to my memory has never actually been involved with any discussion, even I have been in at least a little, but she never posts anything, especially involving her thoughts.

[ac1983fan]

Porkens, what do you mean by "too easy"? And my number one suspect is either herodotus or Jazmyn. Have people forgot about her? She seems to be playing under the radar or something. She, to my memory has never actually been involved with any discussion, even I have been in at least a little, but she never posts anything, especially involving her thoughts.

Actually, jazzmyn has contributed as often as she can, and her posts are often quite long and detailed.

[Porkens]

Porkens, what do you mean by "too easy"? And my number one suspect is either herodotus or Jazmyn. Have people forgot about her? She seems to be playing under the radar or something. She, to my memory has never actually been involved with any discussion, even I have been in at least a little, but she never posts anything, especially involving her thoughts.

I mean that

the joke

I could have made at your last post would have been "too easy."

See, you asked "how am I being ignorant?" but in the same post you were being ignorant. So...funny, but 'too easy.'


TBH, I was half-expecting Jazmyn to come out of left field with a SK (Serial Killer) claim.

I'm...muddled about AC's SK claim. But Herod asked us not to speculate yet, so I'll refrain.

At least that's one scum I pegged. Although; what the hell Torv? Now I'm totally confused about your constant defense of ac. I thought, at the outside, you were masons.

[Herodotus]

This feels like such a trap, but it also makes logical sense.

Claim - Serial Killer

I killed dejkha last night because he felt like the scummiest to me. I wasn't expecting their to be that much flavor in the night scene, but...

Assuming there is three mafia (the most likely amount), lynching me today would be a mistake for the town, as it would very likely put you in lynch or lose tomorrow. If we go after mafia today and are successful, then the town and myself will both be closer to winning. If we go after the mafia today but hit a townie instead, and I don't hit mafia tonight, the town will have already lost, and it would just be between myself and the mafia. So basically, lynching me today is not your best course of action.

It was not a trap. It helps the town more than it helps the SK, but the only group that your claim hurts (if it is true) is the mafia.

You are correct that if you are indeed the SK, then lynching you is not the best play for the town.

But now, reason suggests that someone will counter-claim.

AC just made a claim that, if unchallenged, will make sure that he will not be lynched. This would be quite helpful to him if he is mafia, and might even be advantageous if he is a vig with an unusual killing method. So it could easily be a fake claim.
I'd like to mention to the mafia (assuming AC isn't mafia himself) that it's in their best interests to counter this SK claim. I've already explained why we won't lynch the SK. The only way we will lynch AC in the foreseeable future is if we have a good reason to doubt his claim.

This is your only shot at getting this opposing killing role killed.

It's only slightly better than a 50-50 chance, since your partner(s) will find reasons to choose to believe you as the town figures out which is the real SK, but if you don't take this chance, your odds of winning the game will drop.
So if AC's claim is true, the mafia should bite the bullet and counter it, because it is their only chance to kill him. On the other hand, if it's a fake claim, the real SK should counter it both to out a mafia and for the same reasons they should have claimed in the first place.

[Herodotus]

TBH, I was half-expecting Jazmyn to come out of left field with a SK (Serial Killer) claim.

That is still possible. If she did, that would be a somewhat plausible counter-claim. AC gets credibility points for being first, but there's a chance he is mafia. Like I said, there is definitely someone out there whose best interests are to counter-claim; we will see what happens.

[Porkens]

Huh.


In the meantime:

Vote: Tovarish

[Porkens]

EBWOP: God, that doesn't even make any sense anymore.

Unvote, Vote: Zer0

[Herodotus]

After consideration, I don't believe acfan's claim at this time.

vote: acfan

Aside from the numerous suspicions already discussed about acfan, there are some other D1 issues.
In multiple posts on day 1 (viewtopic.php?p=1509480#1509480 last sentence, viewtopic.php?p=1523852#1523852 third paragraph, and also via his frequent references to and attitude about being cautious about votes,) acfan breadcrumbed that he was a cop. (I think this may be the real reason why Q21 believed him to be scum.) I almost called him out for soft-claiming, but figured if no one else was saying anything about it, he was probably really the cop and possibly the mafia wouldn't notice. (This was also the reason I defended him, and the reason I was surprised that Q21 was a cop - I was thinking ac was a cop.) But since a cop is dead, people would notice his fake-breadcrumbing while rereading day 1, and his plan to fake claim cop was severely weakened.
Second, with all of acfan's breadcrumbing, there was a good chance that the mafia picked it up. If acfan is not mafia, they should have chosen him as their night kill target on the suspicion that he was the cop. It would have been incorrect, but it would have been a more likely guess than Q21. Unless the mafia knew acfan wasn't really a cop, which they would only know if he is a member of the mafia.
Also, the fact that an innocent (Q21) who suspected him was killed by the mafia is a bit suspicious (though on its own, it would not have been a big enough factor that he wouldn't have wanted to kill Q21.) Regardless of the WIFOM, acfan definitely had a reason to want to kill Q21 last night.

Acfan knew he was a likely lynch, but also that the town would not want to lynch the SK. The best way for acfan to make sure he would not be lynched is to claim a role that (a) had a reason to falsely breadcrumb cop and (b) was somewhat helpful to the town.

For these reasons, I think it is very possible that he is a mafia member lying about being the SK.

However, in the unlikely event that acfan's claim is not countered by either the real SK or a mafia player (in which case we start evaluating whom to believe, with acfan at a disadvantage) I will unvote. Acfan, if your claim is true and it stands up against the likely coming counterclaim, you will be in a decent position. If someone else had claimed SK, things might be different, but you are the player who had the most to gain from fake-claiming SK as a mafia member. We will decide whether to believe you when the counterclaim comes.