Mini 732: Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Mafia (Game Over!)

[Yosarian2]

Actually, looking back at the game, my main suspect at the moment Master Ruck. Day 1, even though he posted a fair bit, he basically made no comments at all about who he thought was scum; he made this really wishy washy post about Tony:

I don't really know what to make of the Tony lynch to be honest. The argument against him seems to be a semantics battle at best, yet Pikmin mafia did show that scum do slip and should have been lynched for it then. One game does not account for all, though, so I'm gonna ignore the other game and see what I can get.

Tony is acting quite aggressively in his efforts to defend himself, and he may be overdoing it which is a scum tell, but the wagon on him did practically appear over night and I reckon anyone would be annoyed at that. Though, there is one thing he's said that concerns me.

I would like to state that I hope any town who is voting me for the "slip" chokes on my balls one day.
I also would like the chance to state my final thoughts before I get lynched.

Um, ok Tony. Go ahead. We're not stopping you from posting your thoughts. Why did you feel a need to ask? If you are town and you have anything to say, then just come out and say it. Why hold back?

It really looks like the scummy "He might be town, but he might be scum, but he might be town, but he might be scum" dance that I've commonly see scum do when a townie's about to be lynched; and nothing else, really, about Tony or anyone else. And today, basically all he's done is defend Gorrad, in such a way that I wonder if he's scum who knows Gorrad is town and is trying to get town points for saying so. He hasn't done anything all game that even looks like scumhunting.

Vote:Master Ruck

[Yosarian2]

Ok, yeah, I think I see that. Now Gorrad has publicly said he has taken the jailkeeper role. Does this not say anything of him?

Eh, not really. If he was going to take one of the roles that died yesterday, jailkeeper is the one that would be most useful for scum, I suppose; but I think there are also some logical reasons a pro-town might take jailkeeper as well (which we are not going to discuss at all in thread, since helping scum outguess the jailkeeper would be bad). Also, if he is scum, there's a chance he's lying about taking the jailkeeper role anyway. So, no, I don't think it really says anything about him.

[Master Ruck]

So while there are reasons for a townie to do as he has done, you're going to ignore that and say he's scum because he didn't take a tracker role earlier when he could have done despite it being a very clear risk. Yet, with porochaz, heck, plum and malyss too, they have been lurking and saying very little all day and we're just going to let them get away with that? Sure, they're here now, but it took a prod and some calling out to do that. Scum kill their biggest threat in terms of power or how vocal they are, and here we are about to lynch that person. I still think Gorrad is town and I don't see where all of the case against him is coming from.

[Yosarian2]

So while there are reasons for a townie to do as he has done, you're going to ignore that and say he's scum because he didn't take a tracker role earlier when he could have done despite it being a very clear risk.

I didn't say "He's scum", but yes, not talking the tracker role does seem somewhat more likely more likely a scum move then a town move.

Yet, with porochaz, heck, plum and malyss too, they have been lurking and saying very little all day and we're just going to let them get away with that? Sure, they're here now, but it took a prod and some calling out to do that. Scum kill their biggest threat in terms of power or how vocal they are, and here we are about to lynch that person. I still think Gorrad is town and I don't see where all of the case against him is coming from.

Porochaz lurked for a while, but he's very active now.

Plum hasn't posted much, and I'd like to hear more from him; but when he did post he looked more to me like someone who was actually scumhunting then you have.

Malyss; well, I can tell you as a fact that this:

I agree with the no-vig policy for this evening. I'm sorry that I've not been around much. I've been having issues between the bronchitis and my spine turning on me and not being my friend lately.

is, sadly, 100% true. I'd like to hear more from her as well, but I do know that her lack of activity today has nothing to do with her alignment at all.

So, that's why I'm voting you. Gorrad might be scum or he might be town, I could see it either way, but you really look like scum to me.

[Master Ruck]

I forgot about that Malyss post. Fair enough, her inactivity is a null tell in this case, but with porochaz activity=/=townliness. Gorrad may be effectively taking prozac down with him as they both stand in the spotlight, but there is still the chance that Gorrad is right and porochaz

is

scum. I believe you are town, yos, so I think you are right in most of your thoughts (except me being scum), but when it comes to picking the scum out of Gorrad and porochaz, I still think Gorrad is the townie and poro...well, poro could still go either way I suppose but due to the lack of contribution from most players poro is basically the top of my list right now.

[Master Ruck]

With a current tie in votes, I'll

Vote: Porochaz

to prevent a no lynch.

[Porochaz]

I have a theory... its one that I usually wouldnt put to much thought into but I feel it needs to be said or restated in a blunt way. Gorrad is lying, he has not used his role to get jailkeeper by lynching me then taking my double vote he gets an easier win. Now that is possible. Taking reasons on case into account, I have singled out for lurking, now I am not. I am a doublevoter. There is a good chance Gorrad if scum will take it tomorrow. Hence you will be likely to lose. If I am town and Gorrad is town then you are going to need me for tomorrow, because I think essentially one of us is going to be the lynch today, however I actually have no qualms at changing to MS. Most of Gorrads posts early day 2 have generally been scummy, his vote for me based on lurking and then continuing to harass me about it after it was done are all in my opinion signs of a much stronger case.

[Yosarian2]

Hmmm...3 minutes to deadline. I wish we had a votecount, but it looks like it's going to be a no-lynch.

Well, that's actually not terrible; if there's a no-lynch, then I will vig kill tonight. Gorrad, DO NOT ROLEBLOCK ME if there is not a lynch today; we really don't really want to go into tommorow with 6 people and 2 scum.

[hasdgfas]

ugh, I really don't like that it's been two weeks since we had a mod post which could lead to a no lynch

[Gorrad]

Yos, if you vig tonight, vig Porochaz. If your kill and mafia's go through, then we're at five tomorrow and Poro-scum can quicklynch.

[Porochaz]

Alternatively, vig someone you think is scum, that way if your town we might actually have a chance of winning the game.

[hasdgfas]

Yos, if you vig tonight, vig Porochaz. If your kill and mafia's go through, then we're at five tomorrow and Poro-scum can quicklynch.

wow is that scummy.

vote: Gorrad

[Plum]

ugh, I really don't like that it's been two weeks since we had a mod post which could lead to a no lynch

Agreed.

If no-lynch is achieved and Porochaz lives through the Night, I'll do my utmost to use my ability to stall any quicklynch attempt by Porochaz.

I do not approve of any attempts to steer Yos' Vig-kill if we achieve a no-Lynch. He looks to me like a Townie with good judgement, and I'll be happiest if he Vigs whoever he thinks scummiest.

Now, here's something I don't fully understand. The case against Gorrad does seem to be based around him not picking up the tracker role at any time. Yes, there is a bit of controversy here, but it's still basically discussing his role and what he should have done. Then there's porochaz who, if scum, would basically end the game for us yet everyone is saying they don't want to lynch him based solely on his role. Why are we allowed to lynch Gorrad because of his role but not porochaz?

Porochaz hasn't yet done anything potentially shady with his role. Gorrad, on the other hand, seemed concerned about potentially getting NK'd if he took a role (is it even announced at all anyway? Apparently not) that he didn't do what would probably have been better for the town, and taken an open investigation power.

Never mind. Yos2 has beaten me to the punch. If you already have gotten the point, anyone, apologies.

It's only once you're in a game with Yos that you see

why

"I agree with Yosarian2" is such a major meme.

And today, basically all he's done is defend Gorrad, in such a way that I wonder if he's scum who knows Gorrad is town and is trying to get town points for saying so.

This after the thing I quoted and argued above from Master Ruck and

Ok, yeah, I think I see that. Now Gorrad has publicly said he has taken the jailkeeper role. Does this not say anything of him? This subject seems to have been skipped in conversation so if this does say anything people have failed to mention it and almost disregarded it when continuing to call Gorrad the lynch of the day.

Instead of just soliciting responses, why don't you wow us with an argument that Gorad claiming to have taken the JK role says something about him that indicates he's less likely to be scum and therefore

not

worthy of a lynch? You tried to imply things without backing them up. As (sigh) Yos said, his JK-taken claim is a nulltell. It's coupled with past scumtells.

@Yos - I'm a girl.

Does anyone have a votecount of a clue as to when our Mod is going to show up and/or whether voting now, after deadline has theoretically hit, will do any good?

[Yosarian2]

whether voting now, after deadline has theoretically hit, will do any good?

I don't know. Usually not, but it depends on the mod.

[Gorrad]

Yos, if you vig tonight, vig Porochaz. If your kill and mafia's go through, then we're at five tomorrow and Poro-scum can quicklynch.

wow is that scummy.

vote: Gorrad

Truth be told, I'd rather no night kill at all and Yos' change of heart is worrying. I just don't want it to screw us all over.

[Plum]

Yos, if you vig tonight, vig Porochaz. If your kill and mafia's go through, then we're at five tomorrow and Poro-scum can quicklynch.

wow is that scummy.

vote: Gorrad

Truth be told, I'd rather no night kill at all and Yos' change of heart is worrying. I just don't want it to screw us all over.

we really don't really want to go into tommorow with 6 people and 2 scum.

Which we will if no-Lynch is achieved and scum kill but Yos doesn't. Do you disagree/have a counter-point?

[Gorrad]

Six people and two scum means we can't be quicklynched. Five people and two scum means we can. I'd rather the former.

[Yosarian2]

Yos, if you vig tonight, vig Porochaz. If your kill and mafia's go through, then we're at five tomorrow and Poro-scum can quicklynch.

wow is that scummy.

vote: Gorrad

Truth be told, I'd rather no night kill at all and Yos' change of heart is worrying. I just don't want it to screw us all over.

I said I wouldn't nightkill if we lynched today, becasue that could cost us the game, and because it's better for the town to stay on odds.

Six people and two scum means we can't be quicklynched. Five people and two scum means we can. I'd rather the former.

If there's 6 people and 2 scum, we still lose if we lynch wrong, but we only have a 2/6 chance of lynching right, instead of a 2/5; and then if we do, we only have a 1/4 chance of lynching right the next day, instead of a 1/3. Being on "even numbers" like that really hurts the towns chances of winning; the reason I wasn't going to kill even if we lynched correctly today was beause I'd rather be on odd numbers (5 people tommorow) rather then even numbers (4 people tommorow).

[Gorrad]

If there's six people and two scum, it's four to lynch and we don't worry about quicklynching. If there's five and two, it's three to lynch and Porochaz can screw us over.

[Yosarian2]

Mod: So...is the day over? Did we get a deadline extention?

Gorrrad: If you really think that we'd be better with 6 people and 2 scum tommorow, then why weren't you pushing for a no-lynch today? The fact is, 6 people is a horrible condition to be in; if we got to tommorow with 6 people, then we'd probably have to no-lynch and give the scum a free kill just to get back to odds, and then we'd still be in danger if prozac is scum.

If you really think he's scum, you need to convince me of that, and if you do I can take care of it. But I'm not going to kill him for you just because his role might be a threat if he's scum, especally since, as was pointed out, it still wouldn't be an auto-scum win, unless the mayor is also scum. And I'm certanly not going to not kill, and basically make the day a no-lynch, either.

Then again; come to think of it, if I don't get killed tonight, then I can nightkill tommorow, and along with a lynch tommorow that can bring us down to odds; and if you jailkeep me then I can't be nightkilled. So, I don't really care if you jailkeep me or not; if you're town, flip a coin or something, keep the scum guessing, and just the WIFOM of it might be enough to keep me alive.

[Gorrad]

Because we'd be better with 6/2 only if Porochaz is alive. 5/2 would be better with his death. Your obsession with odds is overriding your thinking. Plus, even if Plum saves one lynch (Which is doubtful considering her severe inactivity), the scum just need to lynch someone else. Plum can only give a quick-draw situation.

[Yosarian2]

Because we'd be better with 6/2 only if Porochaz is alive. 5/2 would be better with his death.

If porochaz is scum, that might be true, although even then I'm not certain of it. If porochaz is town, then going into tommorow 5/2 is much better for the town in many ways, and it also confirmes him as town when the scum don't quicklynch. It's a risk, though, sure.

Your obsession with odds is overriding your thinking.

You know what the town's odds of winning are if we do it your way?

1/3 chance of lynching right tommorow, 1/4 chance of lynching right the next day, that's a 1/12 chance of winning. Of course, that's only if we lynch randomally, but nothing in how today went makes me at all confident in how the town is going to lynch correctly, especally after I'm dead.

Plus, even if Plum saves one lynch (Which is doubtful considering her severe inactivity), the scum just need to lynch someone else. Plum can only give a quick-draw situation.

Well, right; game goes into twilight, plum saves the lynch, and the town then knows who BOTH of the scum are. Yeah, it's a who-votes-first-wins situation after the twilight ends and we go back into day, but if the town knows who the scum are, and has a little time to plan during twilight, I think we'd have a pretty good chance there.

[Yosarian2]

In other words, if I think Porochaz is likely scum, right play for me here would be to kill porochaz. If I don't think he's likely scum, right play for me is to kill someone I think is likely scum (since if I don't think he's scum, your nightmare speedlynch scenerio isn't at really a threat). There is no scenerio where no-killing would be the right play, now that the town has failed to lynch.

[Porochaz]

Do we know this, Glork hasnt been around, hasnt given votecounts or warnings etc. possibly an idea to wait and see what happens...

[mith]

Received a message from a concerned player; I've contacted MeMe in case she has any knowledge about this game that I don't (like an assigned backup), but I'm happy to fill in if Glork has vanished.