Newbie 736 (Game Over)

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Post Post #275 (ISO) » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:12 pm

Post by Sironigous »

I didn't say anything because as I said, I wanted to hear more.
You didn't say THAT.
After his lynch seemed inevitable perhaps.
Let's see, who was left...
You, Porkens, image, and I.

You said you wouldn't vote.
Porkens seems against it.
image maybe.

Inevitable?
No, i'm just saying that his post brings suspicion onto him in my mind. You have no obligation to see things the same way I do.
Why would you NOT?

Do these clash?
You say that scum can be on the wagon, and yet you do not contribute to actually finding those scum.
I am. I think you are scum.
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Post Post #276 (ISO) » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:12 pm

Post by Sironigous »

Well, after adding all the votes, apparently I'm at L-1.

You guys want a claim?
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Post Post #277 (ISO) » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:13 pm

Post by image »

While I do find Sir scummiest of the people on zin's wagon yesterday, I do not want to see a lynch this early in D2. Since LHNM seems prone to quick hammers, (:P)
Unvote
for the time being.
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Post Post #278 (ISO) » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:14 pm

Post by Xtoxm »

Sigh...I'll go through and try and persuade you why he's town. Not now, though...
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Post Post #279 (ISO) » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:15 pm

Post by Xtoxm »

Cheers Image. I'd rather not have a claim Sir.
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Xtoxm is consistently great - Shosin
you were the only wolf i townread at endgame - the worst
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Post Post #280 (ISO) » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:21 pm

Post by image »

@Xtoxm: If you have a good argument for why Sir is town, I'd really like to see it. Please do not neglect to post it because he is no longer at L - 1.
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Post Post #281 (ISO) » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:25 pm

Post by Xtoxm »

I will try to explain why I feel this, hopefully tomorrow, right now i'm just tired and i'm also cooking.
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Post Post #282 (ISO) » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:25 pm

Post by ZEEnon »

Sironigous wrote:You didn't say THAT.
Did you ask me during day one why I wasn't voting zindionne? No, I don't believe you did. So of course I wouldn't randomly throw that in.
Sironigous wrote:Inevitable?
I never said that it was inevitable. I said that you may have seen it as inevitable.
Sironigous wrote:Do these clash?
No. Town-aligned players should
always
let out their views on the game. Your refusal to do so only make me see you are scummy.
Sironigous wrote:I am. I think you are scum.
Oh look. Now that I accuse you of being scum, You decide that I am scummy. What a suprise. This only strengthens my views on you.
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Post Post #283 (ISO) » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:33 pm

Post by Sironigous »

ZEEnon wrote:Did you ask me during day one why I wasn't voting zindionne? No, I don't believe you did. So of course I wouldn't randomly throw that in.
Were you here?
ZEEnon wrote: No. Town-aligned players should always let out their views on the game. Your refusal to do so only make me see you are scummy.
...not necessarily.
ZEEnon wrote: Oh look. Now that I accuse you of being scum, You decide that I am scummy. What a suprise. This only strengthens my views on you.
Didn't I vote for you earlier?... you voted for me AFTER I voted for you...
May I use your argument?
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Post Post #284 (ISO) » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:33 pm

Post by Sironigous »

I never said that it was inevitable. I said that you may have seen it as inevitable.
MAY have. >_>
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Post Post #285 (ISO) » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:39 pm

Post by ZEEnon »

Sironigous wrote:Were you here?

What kind of questions is this? Of course I was here day one. Are you going to get rid of me tonight?
Sironigous wrote:...not necessarily.
I'm serious. If you don't tell us, we can only assume you have no reasons for voting a particular player.
Not just that, town-aligned players want their views out for everyone to understand and agree.
Sironigous wrote:Didn't I vote for you earlier?... you voted for me AFTER I voted for you...
May I use your argument?
That is true, I forgot your vote.
Either way your vote for me had no suspicions backed up with it besides the fact that I did not vote for zindionne.
Sironigous wrote:MAY have. >_>
Yes, I say 'may' because I am not you. I have
no
idea what you are thinking.
I am not going to assume I know what you are thinking, because that is extremely false.
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Post Post #286 (ISO) » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:45 pm

Post by Sironigous »


Yes, I say 'may' because I am not you. I have no idea what you are thinking.
I am not going to assume I know what you are thinking, because that is extremely false.
So what's your case against me?
What kind of questions is this? Of course I was here day one. Are you going to get rid of me tonight?
Tonight, no.
Day, yes.

Very very nice try.

I'm serious. If you don't tell us, we can only assume you have no reasons for voting a particular player.
Not just that, town-aligned players want their views out for everyone to understand and agree.
I'm tell you guys everything I think when the time's right: when what I have to say makes sense.
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Post Post #287 (ISO) » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:52 pm

Post by Porkens »

LHNM wrote: Pork, classic D1 scum bussing by tacking your newb scum partner (poor zind) along with someone you know is a townie.
You know what? This is a perfectly valid reason for suspicion. I did list Zin as a secondary suspect, and I wasn't on the lynching wagon, for which I am ashamed.

I did vote Moriarty simply to keep things moving. I'm glad that that didn't screw us up.

That said; I encourage you to really look at others today before settling on me for your pick. From my point of view, I was already half right.
Xtomx wrote:Sigh...I'll go through and try and persuade you why he's town. Not now, though...
I'd really honestly like to hear a case on why you think he's town.
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Post Post #288 (ISO) » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:17 pm

Post by VoteAnyoneButMe »

ZEEnon, your interrogation of Sir is heavy
FoS
material...

...please refrain from saying things like 'we want to know' or 'the town needs blah blah'....it's really just you...and it makes me cringe when you try to include other people in your own arguments....

P.S. Porkens, kudos for admitting that I might've just latched onto your scum-tail. :)
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Post Post #289 (ISO) » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:19 am

Post by Giuseppe »

Yay! I have some free time, and I can terminate my V/LA.

To justify removal of votes from my self and redirect them to a more useful cause, the drunk posting accusation was indeed a bit of 'dry' humor, and I'd like to point out that that interesting coincidence I noted back in post 250 was initially brought up by Image in 246, and I merely found it interesting, that's all. My unvote was because I'd have preferred to see a role claim, or better, a replacement, of the inactive Zind, because dropping the hammer on him without either of those was a really extreme move to make. In retrospect, it seems wonderful that Zind was scum, but if he'd flipped Town, we'd have made a big mistake, and we had no way to know if we could have prevented it. My unvote was playing on the side of caution, no matter how misplaced my efforts were.

Hm... as I see it right now, I wonder about Zee's massive insistence on Sir, and I wonder more about Xtoxm's coming defense of Sironigous.

As I reexamine the vote count, I realize that there are only two players on the wagon of Zind whose roles I can't identify. Moriarty flipped town. It's very likely that LHNM is town due to his hammer. I was on the wagon, and I'm town. That leaves Xtoxm and Sironigous. I really do not think that scum would try and bus Zind, when Moriarty was such an equally available target.

For now, this removes my suspicions of Xtoxm and Sironigous, although this may change in the future, and makes me worried about ZEEnon, because I think Image is fairly pro-Town.

Seeing as I feel Siron is town, and Xtoxm has some sort of proof he may share with us at a point in the future, ZEE's behavior seems very laser-like in his pursuit of Sir, and I can't find the root of ZEE's argument against him. This leads me to the conclusion that something may not be town about ZEE, although I'd like to hear more from ZEE in defense of himself first before an FoS or Vote.

ZEE, if you could clarify, what is the big reason you think Sir is scum right now? I'm getting mired amid your strings of quotes, and I'd like a straight answer.
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Post Post #290 (ISO) » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:23 am

Post by Porkens »

What about me , Giuseppe?
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Post Post #291 (ISO) » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:34 am

Post by Giuseppe »

Oh, I'm sorry, XD.

I don't have so much of an opinion, as of right now. I'd like to know when you originally posted this quote:
Porken's Quoting Himself wrote:To me, Zeenon, image, Xtomx, an, sadly (Very Happy) even, LHNM have all conducted themselves with a level of sincerity that gives them a pass for day 1.

IMHO, the scummiest thing to be doing right now is not voting. So i find myself again looking at Sironigous. Also, for maybe the first serious time, I'm looking at zindionne (his fifth post is so bad I can't believe it didn't really register to me before).

I propose this: Hang Sironigous. I'd be surprised if neither/both he nor zindionne are scum.
However, you do raise a good point:
Porkens wrote:I'd really honestly like to hear a case on why you think he's town.
As for this, well, I also want to hear why Xtoxm defends Sir. Right now, I'd be more willing to think that Xtoxm, who voted on Zin, might have some good insight, and I'd forestall further judgment before hearing it. However, if Xtoxm's opinion comes out to be less than satisfactory/not terribly profound, I'll reconsider your arguments on the matter. You haven't been as persistent in hunting down Sir, and I feel that it makes you a bit less suspicious than ZEE, at this point in time.
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Post Post #292 (ISO) » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:32 am

Post by Xtoxm »

Ok. Why Sir is town.

Remember, you have to treat new, expecially learning players, differently. Sir falls into this category.

When that early wagon formed on me, he not only didn't contribute to it - He meta'd me and, decided I was town, then defended me. This is not the action of a newbie-scum. (On that point, Sir, using meta is perfectly valid, infact i'd say it's the single most useful tool in the game)

His vote on Porkens - Porkens literally asked for this. Sir doesn't just do a standard omgus though, he gives the opinion with it that he thinks Pork is town. I don't see him doing this as scum.
I mean sure, I have hunches, but they don't really mean anything right now.
This looks like an honest comment. Read his posts in isolation if you want to see it in context. Scum don't have hunches. Scum know.
LHNM

His avatar makes him look like scum.
However...

Still nothing.
This is something that the brain subconciously contributes towards your overall opinion of someone. It has also been discussed a bit in MD. Some people's avatars get directly associated with a role/alignment. It is a lot easier to do this as town, seeing as scum already know who's scum and who's town.

Now, Sir also put the L-1 vote on Zind. For him to be scum, that's some pretty hard bussing, especially when he stayed off the easy townie wagon earlier [mine] (which, if you think he's scum, assumes I am indeed town).

To me, I think i've seen genuine scumhunting from Sir.

Anyway have anything to say to that?
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Post Post #293 (ISO) » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:34 am

Post by Xtoxm »

Also, having looked back at Guiseppe, I find him a bit more town. His attempted unvote was after the hammer...Would scum really do that?
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Post Post #294 (ISO) » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:17 pm

Post by VoteAnyoneButMe »

I think that since the zindionne wagon happened so fast, it is likely that scum was NOT on the wagon...therefore my vote on Porkens still stands.
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Post Post #295 (ISO) » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:19 pm

Post by Porkens »

Alright Xtoxm, I like your explanation. Especially since there's no way you're defending a partner ;)

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Post Post #296 (ISO) » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:20 pm

Post by Porkens »

XtomX wrote: Also, having looked back at Guiseppe, I find him a bit more town. His attempted unvote was after the hammer...Would scum really do that?
to save a partner? maybe?
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Post Post #297 (ISO) » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:26 pm

Post by image »

Hm, that does seem a bit incongruous, now that I think about it. Gius campaigns for a zin lynch, but then when zin actually gets lynched, he tries to "save poor Zind from LHNM's idiotic hammer."
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Post Post #298 (ISO) » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:26 pm

Post by Xtoxm »

Yeh, but when he knows the chance of being allowed to unvote is minimal..
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Post Post #299 (ISO) » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:33 pm

Post by Giuseppe »

As I've said, I tried to unvote because I wanted him replaced. I see now that it would have been disadvantageous to the Town for him to not have been lynched, but at the time, who really knew, considering we were voting him mostly for pressure purposes. A lucky guess *redirecting us from Moriarty to Zind* on my part, followed by a 'Woah There!' response to him actually getting lynched, and not knowing really what his role would turn out to be.

I campaigned to get the game jump-started, for the record. I succeeded, I'd have to say.

Anyway, besides: no intelligent scum would redirect people
in a dying game
off of a town player onto
their scummate
, who previously
did not have a single vote
. To do so would be Grade-A Stupid.
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