Joke comment + vote = random vote. Its not because someone has not harmed you personally that they aren't scum.elvis_knits wrote:I fail to see how this is a random vote.Albert B. Rampage wrote:Vote: Korts
Leave Volkan alone, he has done you no harm.
Mini 753 - Really Deep South (Game over!)
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Albert B. Rampage Survivor
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Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards.-
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DrippingGoofball Mafia Piñata
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I will rephrase.farside22 wrote: DGB are you telling me people don't ask for claims at L-1? I'm just saying if somoene was at L-1 and was asked to claim and claimed miller I would beat it was scum. I can't imagine a town person being that dumb.
What are the benefits for scum to claim Miller when at L-1?
*** People! Help me! Is that not a simple question? Why is it that I can't get farside to understand this simple question??? Can someone else try to ask it differently or something? I can't get through.***
What if the hammer came from a townie that didn't realize there was a wagon at L-1 on page 5?DrippingGoofball wrote:Are you kidding? If someone hammered without (1) waiting for a claim (2) having a good reason. I would be looking at that person tomorrow for lynch. Great way to catch scum. I doubt in this group there is dumb town or dumb scum, however.Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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DrippingGoofball wrote:
I will rephrase.farside22 wrote: DGB are you telling me people don't ask for claims at L-1? I'm just saying if somoene was at L-1 and was asked to claim and claimed miller I would beat it was scum. I can't imagine a town person being that dumb.
What are the benefits for scum to claim Miller when at L-1?
*** People! Help me! Is that not a simple question? Why is it that I can't get farside to understand this simple question??? Can someone else try to ask it differently or something? I can't get through.***
What if the hammer came from a townie that didn't realize there was a wagon at L-1 on page 5?DrippingGoofball wrote:Are you kidding? If someone hammered without (1) waiting for a claim (2) having a good reason. I would be looking at that person tomorrow for lynch. Great way to catch scum. I doubt in this group there is dumb town or dumb scum, however.There is no bennifit!! Why do you act like I was saying someone would do it. I'm saying examples of who I would think is scum when Skander asked me about timing of claims!! GEEZ!
With this group are you kidding? Seriously? EVERYONE FUCKING KNOWS HE IS AT L-1. IF THEY HAMMER THEY ARE SCUM.
Okay.
God girl find a hobby.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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DrippingGoofball Mafia Piñata
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...i ...give ...up ....Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
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Albert B. Rampage Survivor
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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I don't either. I have player commenting about the whole miller claim with questions and comment and I have another talking to be about a question a player asked me about what timing would I consider somoene scum who claimed miller. I feel like I'm being completely misread.Albert B. Rampage wrote:I don't get your line of thinking either ^^^Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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DrippingGoofball Mafia Piñata
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She says that if a player claimed miller at lynch minus one, she would bet that the player is scum.Albert B. Rampage wrote:I don't get your line of thinking either ^^^
Why would a cornered scum, at L-1, claim miller???
A cornered scum might claim miller after an infavorable investigation. But a scum wagonned to lynch minus 1 (no investigation) would be really stupid to claim miller, no?
Would that stop the lynch? No.
Would the scum out 'the real miller'? That is absurd, the scum wants to out useful power roles if they're going to go down, or, if not counterclaimed, appropriate the power role for themselves.
If a player claimed miller at L-1, they'd be hammered in the next post. I can't imagine why scum (or town, for that matter) would want to do that.Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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Did you even read the link you gave me. Perfect example of dumb scum. He claims vanilla and then claims miller when pressured. No it doesn't out anyone. I'm saying I would bet someone was scum if they did that because no town person would do that in their right mind.DrippingGoofball wrote:
She says that if a player claimed miller at lynch minus one, she would bet that the player is scum.Albert B. Rampage wrote:I don't get your line of thinking either ^^^
Why would a cornered scum, at L-1, claim miller???
A cornered scum might claim miller after an infavorable investigation. But a scum wagonned to lynch minus 1 (no investigation) would be really stupid to claim miller, no?
Would that stop the lynch? No.
Would the scum out 'the real miller'? That is absurd, the scum wants to out useful power roles if they're going to go down, or, if not counterclaimed, appropriate the power role for themselves.
If a player claimed miller at L-1, they'd be hammered in the next post. I can't imagine why scum (or town, for that matter) would want to do that.
It would surprise me to see someone fumble when pressured. It happens all the time. Why are you acting like it's a big deal. It was a comment to a question. Why are you acting like it a big tado or something?
Basically I want to understand why you are making a molehill into a mountain. Please explain.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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DrippingGoofball Mafia Piñata
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If it happens all the time, why would it surprise you?farside22 wrote:It would surprise me to see someone fumble when pressured. It happens all the time.
Are you, by any chance, fumbling under pressure?Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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That should say wouldn't with the surprise.DrippingGoofball wrote:
If it happens all the time, why would it surprise you?farside22 wrote:It would surprise me to see someone fumble when pressured. It happens all the time.
Are you, by any chance, fumbling under pressure?
No. I think you are grasping at straws.
Now please explain how you are getting that my one comment to a question asked means so much to you.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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DrippingGoofball Mafia Piñata
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Eventually, yes, unless they're vig'ed earlier. Because you know they're not getting NK'd, ever. Only the town will eliminate a claimed miller. Do you disagree with this reasoning?elvis_knits wrote:DGB, do you think claimed millers should be policy lynched?Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet-
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DrippingGoofball Mafia Piñata
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That's because you're not understanding/answering the question. If you had answered it the first time I asked, you would have spared everyone the tiresome twenty follow up questions.farside22 wrote:Plus I feel you are misrepresting the initail conversation and blowing out of poportion for no real good reason I can find thus far.Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I guess I agree when you put it that way. But I don't feel like lynching abr for his miller claim alone, when so many others are dripping with scum. As the game moves forward I would look at abr and make sure he got a lot of scrutiny, to better judge his scumminess. And also, think about lynching him before lylo.DrippingGoofball wrote:
Eventually, yes, unless they're vig'ed earlier. Because you know they're not getting NK'd, ever. Only the town will eliminate a claimed miller. Do you disagree with this reasoning?elvis_knits wrote:DGB, do you think claimed millers should be policy lynched?Talk nerdy to me.
"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." -Joseph Campbell-
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DrippingGoofball Mafia Piñata
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Oh yeah. We've got lots to work with already.elvis_knits wrote:I guess I agree when you put it that way. But I don't feel like lynching abr for his miller claim alone, when so many others are dripping with scum.Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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If you stopped asking a misleading question I would answer it properly. As it was when you asked it looked to me like you were implying something I said had anything to do with anything. I answered a question about who I would suspect as scum with a miller claim based on time. That was the question I answered and did not understand why you found this a subject in which answering what scum gain by doing so is really something that needs any focus in my book. One had nothing to do with the other except both talked about miller vs scum claim.DrippingGoofball wrote:
That's because you're not understanding/answering the question. If you had answered it the first time I asked, you would have spared everyone the tiresome twenty follow up questions.farside22 wrote:Plus I feel you are misrepresting the initail conversation and blowing out of poportion for no real good reason I can find thus far.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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roflcopter Jack of All Trades
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why is there a discussion going on about what would happen were someone to claim miller at lynch -1?soi soi soi
wins: open 69 (townie), mini 592 (sk), mini 617 (mafia rb), open 102 (mafia lover), crackers! (doctor), mini 712 (doctor), mini 715 (townie), mini 770 (inventor), lynch all lurkers (townie), mafia 100 (mason), space mafia (neighborizer)-
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vollkan The Interrogator
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Complet null-tell.DrippingGoofball wrote:
You say she takes everything serious.vollkan wrote:As with her remarks on defensiveness above, EK is also taking everything as serious.
She herself started the game by 'jokingly' claiming scum.
What do you make of this, and what are your insights on the psychology of claiming scum early in the game?
Town can do it to play the stirring the pot game. Scum might do it to appear casual.
I agree that there is some necessity for interpretation here, but I don't think I am being unreasonable in my reading of Neko's play. He demonstrates clearly that he is capable of recognising random jokiness, for the purposes of indicting me for *apparently* failing to realise that you were being jokey. He even acknowledges the prospect that I might be silly, but this just drops off his radar.elvis_knits wrote:Vollkan is dancing around my questions to him.
Well done on snipping what I said [bolded]:elvis_knits wrote:Vollkan is dancing around my questions to him.
vollkan wrote:elvis_knits wrote:I'm still interested in this, vollkan:
Were you saying you weren't taking the wagon on you seriously, even though you got to L-2?elvis_knits wrote:
I can tell some of it's joking, but all of it? You're not at all serious about anything you're saying? You are not taking the wagon seriously when you are at L-2?vollkan wrote:
EK is also treating me as serious.EK wrote: As far as I can tell, the only reason vollkan thinks korts is scum, is because korts is voting vollkan. And that's no a good reason to be that sure.
Some time has passed and you're still at L-2. Do you take it seriously now?
I deny the premise of your question - that I have never been serious.EK wrote: Oh, Vollkan, you're L-1 now. Taking it seriously?
Your answers to these two questions seem like you're deliberately trying to be difficult and to hide your true feelings. First you tell me I'm taking you too seriously. Then you tell me you have been serious at some times (but won't specify when). Then you tell me I am taking you too seriously again.vollkan wrote:
As with her remarks on defensiveness above, EK is also taking everything as seriousEK in 58 wrote: As far as I can tell, the only reason vollkan thinks korts is scum, is because korts is voting vollkan. And that's no a good reason to be that sure.
And the whole time, never giving a genuine reaction to being at L-1. Mostly what you are doing is responding to questions without giving actual answers.
I smell deception.
ALSO:
What? I saw you spill no beans.vollkan wrote: Since I am at L-1, however, I shall spill the beans (or, 99% of the beans)
On the first question thing. You accused me of not being serious. In fact, as the bolded explains, I was making a deliberate effort to temporarily embrace a "WTF" playstyle, as an alternative to self-voting. See, I began with an overdrawn reaction to Korts, and he retaliated also. What was interesting to me was how the wagon built up seriously, as reflected in the analysis at the end of my last post.vollkan wrote:Since I am at L-1, however, I shall spill the beans (or, 99% of the beans)
Some of you may know that in recent times I flirted with being a start-of-game-self-voter. Self-voting was getting stale and leading to the same inevitable debates and dividing lines, so I decided I would experiment with a playstyle variation (surely some of you must have notice that I haven't been myself this game? )
On the second point, what I mean is that you seemed to be taking everything I said at face value.
Nothing I said was at all meant to intimate an intention to claim.skander wrote: Volkan: Are you purposely not claiming or was it just an oversight? It sounded like you were going to claim but when I got to the end there was no claim.
Korts wrote:
This might be a good point, but you're interpreting neko's posts in the worst possible way--to me those two posts implied indecisiveness more than opportunism in the making.voll wrote: 52&56: What's interesting to me here is, firstly, that in 52 Neko seems to be admitting the prospect of me just being silly, but by 56, after EK has argued that some defensiveness would be understandbale, he says that " I just think vollkan's reactions are a bit much, especially following a random vote with joke reasons". He seems to be capable of recognising that Korts' vote is an obvious joke, so obvious that I am faulted for *apparently* not picking up on that fact. And, yet, he dismisses, with no basis, the prospect that maybe I am also just being random - which, in the circumstances, reeks of opportunism. Add to this my general suspicion of people who attack others for defensiveness, and the basis for my Neko vote is more fully fleshed out.-
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vollkan The Interrogator
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Complet null-tell.DrippingGoofball wrote:
You say she takes everything serious.vollkan wrote:As with her remarks on defensiveness above, EK is also taking everything as serious.
She herself started the game by 'jokingly' claiming scum.
What do you make of this, and what are your insights on the psychology of claiming scum early in the game?
Town can do it to play the stirring the pot game. Scum might do it to appear casual.
I agree that there is some necessity for interpretation here, but I don't think I am being unreasonable in my reading of Neko's play. He demonstrates clearly that he is capable of recognising random jokiness, for the purposes of indicting me for *apparently* failing to realise that you were being jokey. He even acknowledges the prospect that I might be silly, but this just drops off his radar.elvis_knits wrote:Vollkan is dancing around my questions to him.
Well done on snipping what I said [bolded]:elvis_knits wrote:Vollkan is dancing around my questions to him.
vollkan wrote:elvis_knits wrote:I'm still interested in this, vollkan:
Were you saying you weren't taking the wagon on you seriously, even though you got to L-2?elvis_knits wrote:
I can tell some of it's joking, but all of it? You're not at all serious about anything you're saying? You are not taking the wagon seriously when you are at L-2?vollkan wrote:
EK is also treating me as serious.EK wrote: As far as I can tell, the only reason vollkan thinks korts is scum, is because korts is voting vollkan. And that's no a good reason to be that sure.
Some time has passed and you're still at L-2. Do you take it seriously now?
I deny the premise of your question - that I have never been serious.EK wrote: Oh, Vollkan, you're L-1 now. Taking it seriously?
Your answers to these two questions seem like you're deliberately trying to be difficult and to hide your true feelings. First you tell me I'm taking you too seriously. Then you tell me you have been serious at some times (but won't specify when). Then you tell me I am taking you too seriously again.vollkan wrote:
As with her remarks on defensiveness above, EK is also taking everything as seriousEK in 58 wrote: As far as I can tell, the only reason vollkan thinks korts is scum, is because korts is voting vollkan. And that's no a good reason to be that sure.
And the whole time, never giving a genuine reaction to being at L-1. Mostly what you are doing is responding to questions without giving actual answers.
I smell deception.
ALSO:
What? I saw you spill no beans.vollkan wrote: Since I am at L-1, however, I shall spill the beans (or, 99% of the beans)
On the first question thing. You accused me of not being serious. In fact, as the bolded explains, I was making a deliberate effort to temporarily embrace a "WTF" playstyle, as an alternative to self-voting. See, I began with an overdrawn reaction to Korts, and he retaliated also. What was interesting to me was how the wagon built up seriously, as reflected in the analysis at the end of my last post.vollkan wrote:Since I am at L-1, however, I shall spill the beans (or, 99% of the beans)
Some of you may know that in recent times I flirted with being a start-of-game-self-voter. Self-voting was getting stale and leading to the same inevitable debates and dividing lines, so I decided I would experiment with a playstyle variation (surely some of you must have notice that I haven't been myself this game? )
On the second point, what I mean is that you seemed to be taking everything I said at face value.
Nothing I said was at all meant to intimate an intention to claim.skander wrote: Volkan: Are you purposely not claiming or was it just an oversight? It sounded like you were going to claim but when I got to the end there was no claim.
Korts wrote:
This might be a good point, but you're interpreting neko's posts in the worst possible way--to me those two posts implied indecisiveness more than opportunism in the making.voll wrote: 52&56: What's interesting to me here is, firstly, that in 52 Neko seems to be admitting the prospect of me just being silly, but by 56, after EK has argued that some defensiveness would be understandbale, he says that " I just think vollkan's reactions are a bit much, especially following a random vote with joke reasons". He seems to be capable of recognising that Korts' vote is an obvious joke, so obvious that I am faulted for *apparently* not picking up on that fact. And, yet, he dismisses, with no basis, the prospect that maybe I am also just being random - which, in the circumstances, reeks of opportunism. Add to this my general suspicion of people who attack others for defensiveness, and the basis for my Neko vote is more fully fleshed out.-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Vollkan... I read that bolded statement the first time and I don't see how it's very interesting, or crazy, or informative. It doesn't seem like some big secret. I cannot comprehend how that's "spilling the beans."vollkan wrote:Well done on snipping what I said [bolded]:vollkan wrote: Since I am at L-1, however, I shall spill the beans (or, 99% of the beans)
Some of you may know that in recent times I flirted with being a start-of-game-self-voter. Self-voting was getting stale and leading to the same inevitable debates and dividing lines, so I decided I would experiment with a playstyle variation (surely some of you must have notice that I haven't been myself this game? )
On the first question thing. You accused me of not being serious. In fact, as the bolded explains, I was making a deliberate effort to temporarily embrace a "WTF" playstyle, as an alternative to self-voting. See, I began with an overdrawn reaction to Korts, and he retaliated also. What was interesting to me was how the wagon built up seriously, as reflected in the analysis at the end of my last post.
It seems natural that people might expect you to claim when you're L-1, people have asked for a claim, and you say something about spilling the beans. The explanation you provided is a gimme explanation and even if you weren't planning to claim, I would have expected something more earth-shattering. Some type of plan you concocted... or theory of the game or theory of who is scum. Merely saying how you decided not to self-vote this game... is not wild and crazy.Talk nerdy to me.
"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." -Joseph Campbell-
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Korts Luddite
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elvis is looking scum for the insistence regarding vollkan's claim, more precisely the lack of it. You have to consider the context as well, not to mention the fact that he isn't at L-1 anymore.
Meanwhile, I'll be taking a look at the vollkan wagon's development within the afternoon.scumchat never die-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Korts Luddite
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vollkan The Interrogator
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It's important because the underlying assumption upon which the arguments of the wagoners were based was that some or all of my behaviour (be it my "defensive" response to Korts, or my OMGUSing) was serious (or, more accurately, "not deliberate shit-stirring").elvis_knits wrote:
Vollkan... I read that bolded statement the first time and I don't see how it's very interesting, or crazy, or informative. It doesn't seem like some big secret. I cannot comprehend how that's "spilling the beans."vollkan wrote:Well done on snipping what I said [bolded]:vollkan wrote: Since I am at L-1, however, I shall spill the beans (or, 99% of the beans)
Some of you may know that in recent times I flirted with being a start-of-game-self-voter. Self-voting was getting stale and leading to the same inevitable debates and dividing lines, so I decided I would experiment with a playstyle variation (surely some of you must have notice that I haven't been myself this game? )
On the first question thing. You accused me of not being serious. In fact, as the bolded explains, I was making a deliberate effort to temporarily embrace a "WTF" playstyle, as an alternative to self-voting. See, I began with an overdrawn reaction to Korts, and he retaliated also. What was interesting to me was how the wagon built up seriously, as reflected in the analysis at the end of my last post.
In that sense, I was "spilling the beans". It wasn't a big secret - or, rather, it shouldn't have been - but the very fact of the wagon proved that it was something that certain people hadn't factored into their actions.
It wasn't a mere absence of a self-vote. It was that, instead of self-voting, I went down the path of the responses you saw.EK wrote: It seems natural that people might expect you to claim when you're L-1, people have asked for a claim, and you say something about spilling the beans. The explanation you provided is a gimme explanation and even if you weren't planning to claim, I would have expected something more earth-shattering. Some type of plan you concocted... or theory of the game or theory of who is scum. Merely saying how you decided not to self-vote this game... is not wild and crazy.
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