Open 123 - Vengeful Mafia - Game Over! before 752

[afatchic]

Prob me. Meh, afatchic is null. Ive seen panicking town and scum doing that. He played horribly in a game as town (Near vanilla, IIRC).

Thats just cuz i got ticked off because they were bandwagoning a person because he was playing newbish. it was an opportunistic bandwagon, and when i tried to defend it, the town jumped on me as his partner. Then when no one would listen i just stopped trying. I finally said lynch me first, and when i come up town, don't lynch him tomorrow. But i got lynched d1(vanilla) then he got lynched day two(Vanilla).

[Crazy]

Artem do you really think your vote on afatchic is justified?

I know this isn't my question, but not much has really happened except the Artem/afatchic thing.

I think afatchic's POV makes sense here; since he didn't check the votecount, it makes sense that he'd be worried about someone being quickhammered, since it's something that could potentially happen if somebody didn't check the votes.

What is notable, though, is that Artem commented on afatchic's vote but didn't vote him until Tajo brought it up.

[Artem]

Artem do you really think your vote on afatchic is justified?

I scumhunt by using my vote to pressure players that I believe are dropping scum-tells, ask them questions and analyze reactions.

Yes, I think my vote was justified. Having thought about his defense, I'm going

Unvote

for now.

Tajo, what was the reason of asking all those questions? What conclusions did you arrive at from the answers besides Crazy and me being harder to analyze?

What is notable, though, is that Artem commented on afatchic's vote but didn't vote him until Tajo brought it up.

Huh? My comment was in post 26, my vote was in post 27.

Both you and Tajo are throwing around phrases like "It's interesting that... " or "It's notable...." coupled with facts that are not really interesting or notable. Are you trying to build suspicion on me from thin air or are you just making conversation since we don't have much at the moment?

[Crazy]

Huh? My comment was in post 26, my vote was in post 27.

I meant your comment in Post 14.

[Artem]

But I didn't vote him because he put somebody at L-1. I voted him because he's concerned with accidentally quicklynching somebody but didn't pay attention to the votecount. Both facts have been revealed in post 19.

[Crazy]

But I didn't vote him because he put somebody at L-1. I voted him because he's concerned with accidentally quicklynching somebody but didn't pay attention to the votecount. Both facts have been revealed in post 19.

Yeah, you're right. Nevermind.

Umm, I am curious why you unvoted, though. What in particular did afatchic say that made you change your mind about him?

[afatchic]

But I didn't vote him because he put somebody at L-1. I voted him because he's concerned with accidentally quicklynching somebody but didn't pay attention to the votecount. Both facts have been revealed in post 19.

What is the problem with being worried about a quicklynch?

Let me explain this...
1) didn't hit me that 'tajo was populartajo, so it never struck that it was the second vote.
2) It didn't hit me at first it was three to lynch.
3) i unvoted just in case someone else did the same thing i did and didn't check votes prior to voting, then ending the day on page one.

[Artem]

Umm, I am curious why you unvoted, though. What in particular did afatchic say that made you change your mind about him?

Because there was nothing particularly scummy about his response, and because you and Tajo became more interesting with your "It's worthy to note...". It's almost like you're hinting at something I've done being suspicious, without explicitly stating that it is. The fact that you haven't said why something is interesting or noteworthy worries me.

It also bugs me that Slicey doesn't post. In my experience, lurkers tend be the godfather.

Unvote; Vote: Silcey

to get him participating.

[Crazy]

Because there was nothing particularly scummy about his response, and because you and Tajo became more interesting with your "It's worthy to note...". It's almost like you're hinting at something I've done being suspicious, without explicitly stating that it is. The fact that you haven't said why something is interesting or noteworthy worries me.

Casting suspicion is sorta the point of the game. By "notable" I mean it's somewhat suspicious, but not enough for a vote, okay?

And I was wrong about that anyway, because I misunderstood the reasons for your vote.

But about this:

Because there was nothing particularly scummy about his response

You don't unvote someone because their response wasn't scummy, only if it made you understand his point of view and now you can see how he could have made that vote. If his opinion hasn't changed, and he hasn't clarified anything for you, I don't understand why you unvoted him.

As for Slicey, a prod would probably be more effective than a vote. Rarely do people ever not post for 6 days on purpose.

Mod: Prod Slicey please

[Plum]

I'm here and better than ever (sort of). As per the request, I'll prod Slicey and check to see if anyone else needs prodding as well. Updated votecount coming soon.

Edit:

Vote Count 03

afatchic - 0 - (none)
Artem - 0 - (none)
Crazy - 1 - (afatchic)
populartajo - 1 - (Crazy)
Slicey - 1 - (Artem)

Not Voting - 2 - populartajo, Slicey

With five players alive, it'll take three players to trample someone on the baseball field.

[populartajo]

Prodded. More tonight.

[Artem]

You don't unvote someone because their response wasn't scummy, only if it made you understand his point of view and now you can see how he could have made that vote. If his opinion hasn't changed, and he hasn't clarified anything for you, I don't understand why you unvoted him.

That's not how I play. The reason I vote and ask questions is to get a better read on a player from their responses. It was pretty obvious how afatchic could be not paying attention to the votecount and be concerned with a quicklynch at the same time. So no, his response didn't clarify anything for me that wasn't clear already. I wanted to see

how

he would answer my questions. His responses are coming off as slightly frustrated with my inability to understand his point of view. I'm reading that as town.

As for Slicey, a prod would probably be more effective than a vote. Rarely do people ever not post for 6 days on purpose.

You'd be surprised. Until a mod officially states that Slicey is to be replaced, my vote stays.

[Crazy]

That's not how I play. The reason I vote and ask questions is to get a better read on a player from their responses. It was pretty obvious how afatchic could be not paying attention to the votecount and be concerned with a quicklynch at the same time. So no, his response didn't clarify anything for me that wasn't clear already. I wanted to see how he would answer my questions. His responses are coming off as slightly frustrated with my inability to understand his point of view. I'm reading that as town.

So you never found afatchic suspicious at all from the start?

You'd be surprised. Until a mod officially states that Slicey is to be replaced, my vote stays.

Well, I think it's more appropriate to see if they haven't forgotten about the thread first. Lurking that much to stay under the radar is just bad sportsmanship.

[Plum]

Slicey has requested replacement. Search starting now.

Juls replaces Slicey effective immediately. Have fun, all.

[Juls]

Hello...I will catch up ASAP. I think I have played with all of you before even if some of it was brief.

[afatchic]

even if some of it was brief.

[afatchic]

His responses are coming off as slightly frustrated with my inability to understand his point of view.

This seems pretty accurate.

[Artem]

So you never found afatchic suspicious at all from the start?

Of course I was. That's why I pressured him.

A. I understand that a townie may be concerned about a quicklynch but pays no attention to the votecount.
B. Player X is concerned about a quicklynch but pays no attention to the votecount.

(A & B) does not imply that Player X is a townie.

[Artem]

Unvote

[afatchic]

Populartajo, artem why the no votes?

[Juls]

This game is certainly more complex than it seems at first glance. Just a few comments from the first couple pages:

Day 1: Each townie has 50% chance of nailing scum (2 out of the other 4 players) and 25% chance nailing the GF.

Now, assume the goon hammers a townie that was sitting at L-1 for no good reason and the townie shoots the goon.

Day 2: Each townie has 50% chance of nailing scum (1 out of the other 2 players) and 50% chance nailing the GF.

The mafia chances didn't exactly improve and the town has to make 1 correct decision to win, instead of 2.

This doesn't seem right. Perhaps you are just responding to Crazy but I also see this as you leading a vig kill. It is possible that scum can be 1 and 2 on the wagon or be the starter of the wagon or the middle of the wagon. What makes it more likely that scum will be the hammer?

Vote: Artem

(L-2)

On a side note, what is 100% obvious in a mislynch is that scum ARE on the wagon. If we do mislynch today then I think the smartest move to make is for the vig to kill from the people on the wagon. There is at worst a 1 in 3 chance to hit scum but a potential 100% (if both scum are on the wagon) chance to hit town if we vig kill someone not on the wagon.

1. How experienced would you consider?
2. How do you scumhunt?

1. I have two completed games...as you, Crazy, and Artem know I started back in October but I replaced out of all my games. I have decided to take things a little less personally this go around. So far it's going well. I still have a lot to learn but I think I am getting better as time goes on.

2. I usually try to determine what someone's motivation is for their action. I usually feel a little more comfortable on D2 so this one is going to be a real challenge for me.

My best method of scum hunting is rereading the thread, as it is often easier to pick out the scummy players.

I LOL'd :p (no offense)

[Juls]

EBWOP:

Unvote

I reread and I think I misunderstood what you meant. You were talking about a specific situation, I read it as a generality.

But the second part still stands about scum having to be on a wagon if we mislynch.

[Artem]

afatchic, why the parked vote from the RVS?

fix't

But the second part still stands about scum having to be on a wagon if we mislynch.

Yes, scum has to be on the wagon, but we don't know if it's 1 scum or 2 scum.
If there's one scum on the wagon, then: there's 1/3 chance of hitting scum by shooting somebody on the wagon, and 100% chance of hitting scum by shooting somebody off the wagon.
If there're two scum on the wagon, then: there's 2/3 chance of hitting scum by shooting somebody on the wagon, and 0% chance of hitting scum by shooting somebody off the wagon.

Average it out, you still get 50-50 for hitting scum regardless of where you shoot.

This game is not as simple. Say a townie is being scummy on purpose. The other two townies will hop on his wagon pretty quickly, so all scum has to do is contribute one of their two votes. In that case, the townie that was scummy on purpose should shoot the player who stayed off the wagon.

[Juls]

Yes you are right. I had not thought of it like that (with averages). However, the low end of probability by hitting someone on the wagon is 33% whereas hitting someone off the wagon, the low end probability is 0%. That's kinda the way I was thinking about it.

[Crazy]

Hello...I will catch up ASAP. I think I have played with all of you before even if some of it was brief.

Yes, I remember you.

Of course I was. That's why I pressured him.

A. I understand that a townie may be concerned about a quicklynch but pays no attention to the votecount.
B. Player X is concerned about a quicklynch but pays no attention to the votecount.

(A & B) does not imply that Player X is a townie.

Okay, so those two points together imply suspicion. After you questioned afatchic, both of those points are still correct, yes? Just because his defense was not scummy doesn't mean the original thing was not scummy!

On a side note, what is 100% obvious in a mislynch is that scum ARE on the wagon. If we do mislynch today then I think the smartest move to make is for the vig to kill from the people on the wagon. There is at worst a 1 in 3 chance to hit scum but a potential 100% (if both scum are on the wagon) chance to hit town if we vig kill someone not on the wagon.

Yeah, I'll point to Artem's probabilities here.