Mini 733- Congratulations! You are... Mafia (Game Over)

[imaginality]

Am rerreadingk beforre voting, but my vote at moment is mose likely to go on Isacc, elvis or Plum.

Who bought lemonade yeztoday? If buyers are still alive zhey zhould be ze vuns to buy today too (assuming zey still trust caf), yust to minimize risk razor zhan spread rrisk too videly.

[Mirth]

Votecount

Isacc - Hurry - [Kmd]
Sly - It - [Elvis]
Elvis - Up - [Isacc]

Not Voting - People - [Glork, Plum, Imaginality, Hascow, Caf, Sly]

[Isacc]

Imaginality: Any reasons for those choices?

[imaginality]

Ma-ia hii
Ma-ia huu
Ma-ia hoo
Ma-ia haha

[caf19]

Who bought lemonade yeztoday? If buyers are still alive zhey zhould be ze vuns to buy today too (assuming zey still trust caf), yust to minimize risk razor zhan spread rrisk too videly.

Isacc and Sly are alive; des is not.

[Glork]

Limited aksess ontil Toosday sometime... sorry, shood have pozhted earlier.

Or bolded, actually

[elvis_knits]

In addition, isacc and caf are suspicious to me because they are late in joining the darox wagon.

Eh, I was actually on Darox's case for quite a lot of D1 (or as much of 'on his case' as I could be without him answering most of my questions). The reason I didn't vote, as I said at the time, is that I hadn't sold enough lemonade and I didn't want to end the day without this having happened. After the lemonade got bought, I made a couple of other small posts, announced my intention to vote, then voted.

You are bringing up some good points with this post (most of which I'm cutting out... but I do think your points are important). My analysis was mainly on the vote counts, and I notice now that it misses some of the finer points. So I'm glad you're bringing this stuff up.

I think you're right that you were anti-darox for much of the day. I understand your reasoning that you weren't voting because you needed to sell lemonade... but still, attacking without voting is usually scummy in my book.

I am concerned that you seem more intent on selling lemonade than on scum hunting.

Although, I agree with the following conclusions, which make me feel a little better about you:

tl;dr: SlySly and Plum are suspicious.

[SlySly]

Unless caf reveals what is accomplished by lemonade sales and it proves to be pro-town, I will not be buying any lemonade today.

[Plum]

The llamas ate my brains D=. No, I'm just a bit overtired and have some suspicions on myself to address and then hopefully soon will have analysis of current cases and maybe some sort of reread.

On to Caf's problems with me, which seem to be the most extensively expressed thus far:

- Plum is another interesting one: post 779 she makes a huge case culminating in a vote for des. This case seems to be made from the assumption that Darox is town; players are analysed in relation to how scummy their vote on Darox is perceived to be. EK is criticised for her attack on Darox ... and des's push for a Darox lynch is brought up again and again.

Mostly because that monster post started out as an analysis of the Darox wagon, which, as has been noted, moved pretty fast as we approached the deadline, which was eventually moved a week up. As I started, I thought it would be a good idea to do a minor reread of the people who joined the wagon quickly, to see if their votes for Darox were coming out of nowhere or not. In wagon-analysis of a wagon rather out-of-the-ordinary, yes, votes out of nowhere are the ones equated with opportunism and hence suspicion, suspending, for that part of the analysis, discussion of how/whether Darox was scummy. I admit that I did ramble a bit about EK, and my conclusions about her previously expressed suspicions of Darox re the early Kmd wagon might have been wrong, though I later referred to them as 'arguably fair'. I did, however, admit to digression, as the point of the exercise was to see how suspicious she had been of Darox previous to the quick wagon. Though I did bring up Des in relation to the wagon, it was only because I was analysing the people who got on the wagon looking for possible opportunism. I see that I concluded that neither EK's vote nor Des' vote could be conclusively considered opportunism, as they'd both shown to much fairly reasonable suspicion of Darox previously. I'll address one of the quotes of mine Caf brings:

Des continues to push for the Darox lynch afterwards, citing, of all things, a quote of his in which he attacks Glork for 'giving Darox lip service' on his lack of contributions. Huh? Did I miss something here?

I'll admit that apparently I was missing something here, which was that I read the accusation wrong. I weirdly interpreted Des to be weirdly applying his attack on Glork as some supporting point against Darox. Now I see that (am I mistaken?) it was a reiteration of the 'Darox has contributed little' point.

Yes, at that point I was not strongly certain whether Darox was scum or town, though, yes, I did note that he'd made an odd, not-awesome answer to an accusation about his vote on Sly.

At that stage of the game figuring out whether or not to lynch Darox was vital, and Plum avoided the question entirely in favour of judging other players on an implicit assumption that Darox is town. For the record, Plum doesn't clarify her position on Darox in other posts, until post 845 (about a day before the deadline), where she suddenly becomes receptive to it. That looks like buddy behaviour to me, pushing for other lynches until it becomes clear they won't happen, then turning round and sending him to the grave.

At that point, I didn't consider a push for strong consensus on Darox as pressing as my case on Des (which did not happen to be built on Des' positions on Darox - Des' positions on Glork were my main concerns - see post 805). We had a week, I thought. According to the rules, if deadline started to loom without good consensus on who was really worthy of getting lynched, it would take only four players to lynch. I thought that surely in this game there were four players good enough to vote avoid a no-lynch, myself included. And I believed that if Darox fell into that position, as he had when the deadline which had been moved fell out, as his play hadn't grabbed me by the shoulders and shouted 'pro-town' at the top of its lungs, I would find a Darox lynch more than acceptable. Had it been necessary, I absolutely would have voted Darox and pushed for his lynch to avoid a no-lynch. That didn't ever become necessary. Having said all that, I believed at the time that all that considered, making my Des case was my priority, as he was my preferred lynch at the time. I thought it was clear that my feelings were 'Darox isn't awesome, but I think Des is scummiest'. I was wrong there, obviously.

More stuffs coming sooner or later, depending mostly on how tired I am/will be.

[imaginality]

Vote: SlySly

I akree wif Elvis,

I think we should try to lynch Sly again today. If we can't, we go for someone else.

Imaginality: Any reasons for those choices?

Ended day 1 feeling I should gif elvis and Plum gut re-rread; vhen I follow up on vague uniz about somevun zey offen look more clearly scummy after reread. As for you, kinda opposite rreason, I felt you vere scummy day 1 but vant to rerread to decide if maybe you vere yust playink badly or rrreally scum.

[SlySly]

Vote: SlySly

I akree wif Elvis,

Why have you waited so long to get on this wagon? Elvis's suggestion was days ago and you have posted a few times since then. Shouldn't you have agreed to this earlier instead of waiting until now to agree to wasting the time of the town again today?

[imaginality]

Ma-ia hii
Ma-ia huu
Ma-ia hoo
Ma-ia haha

[SlySly]

Sing, sing, sing, so imaginality can post again.

[imaginality]

Why have you waited so long to get on this wagon? Elvis's suggestion was days ago and you have posted a few times since then. Shouldn't you have agreed to this earlier instead of waiting until now to agree to wasting the time of the town again today?

I fail to seeink vhy you are so vorried about it vasting town's time.

(a) people haf been read, and to make cases, and zo vorth, between elvis's vote and mine. It iss not like it vas vasted time yust because I vote now.

(b) ve can vote you and lynch-test you (if ve still find you scummy, vhich to being honestly, I do, yes?) vhile still discussing and makingk cases on ozzers. It not a big distraction.

As for vhy I voted now rather zan earrrlier, I vanted to check I still find you scummy on re-read before voting you. Aside vrom day vun stuff, today your to-and-fro wif elvis rreads badly to me:

I was concerned the message wasn't sinking in.

What are you worried about if you can't be lynched?

I'm not worried. It seems to me that you are willing to waste the town's time again today, though. That seems scummy to me. Though I would prefer to lynch cow, if you keep pushing this issue when others seem to think there are more important avenues to explore, I will be moving my vote to you. [/quote]

Haf addressed your claim about time-vasting above, but your prre-emptif OMGUSing (or trreatening or vhatever you vant to call it) of elvis here, and your rresponse to my vote too, makes me think you zeem zignificantly more nervous about votes on you today to yesterday.

If you are genuinely not vorried vhy not vote yourself and encourage more votes on you and ve vill resolve this and move on quicker than if you resisting and callink people scummy for vanting to try it, yes?

Unless caf reveals what is accomplished by lemonade sales and it proves to be pro-town, I will not be buying any lemonade today.

Vhy ze change in attitude compared vif yesterday?

[SlySly]

If you are genuinely not vorried vhy not vote yourself and encourage more votes on you and ve vill resolve this and move on quicker than if you resisting and callink people scummy for vanting to try it, yes?

I'm not worried in the least.

I already said, if we must, let's get it out of the way. Most chose to dig into other things as they obviously saw how much time was wasted on me yesterday and concluded that it is not in the town's best interest to waste that time on me again today.

Unless caf reveals what is accomplished by lemonade sales and it proves to be pro-town, I will not be buying any lemonade today.

Vhy ze change in attitude compared vif yesterday?

If caf is scum, I don't want to help him by buying his wares. If caf is town, he needs to tell us how the town benefits from the sales before he can expect us to buy anymore.

[imaginality]

Alo, salut, sunt eu, un haiduc
si te rog, iubirea mea, primeste fericirea

Alo, alo, sunt eu, Picasso
ti-am dat beep
si sunt voinic
Dar sa stii, nu-ti cer nimic

[SlySly]

blah blah blah

once again for imaginality's sake, in case he has more to add.

[imaginality]

Yust the question:

If caf is scum, I don't want to help him by buying his wares. If caf is town, he needs to tell us how the town benefits from the sales before he can expect us to buy anymore.

Vhy does zis logic apply today more zan yesterday? Vhy gif him benifeet of doubt and buy eet yesterday but not today?

[SlySly]

Vhy does zis logic apply today more zan yesterday? Vhy gif him benifeet of doubt and buy eet yesterday but not today?

Yesterday I was attempting to prove how tough a sasquatch is. That has now been proven and I don't need to prove it again. He will have to convince me there is a pro-town reason to buy some today before I will.

[imaginality]

Ma-ia hii
Ma-ia huu
Ma-ia hoo
Ma-ia haha

Ma-ia hii
Ma-ia huu
Ma-ia hoo
Ma-ia haha

[SlySly]

REEEEEEEEEECOLA!!!

[imaginality]

Yesterday I was attempting to prove how tough a sasquatch is. That has now been proven and I don't need to prove it again. He will have to convince me there is a pro-town reason to buy some today before I will.

Yesterday you vere prrrepared to taking anti-town ackshuns to be proof how tough-man you are? (If you are sayingk you did not to trust caf yesterday eizzer, dat is conclusssion ve reach.)

Vhat did drinkingk lemonade proof dzat to be hanged by neck to no effect, twize, didn't?

[SlySly]

Yesterday you vere prrrepared to taking anti-town ackshuns to be proof how tough-man you are? (If you are sayingk you did not to trust caf yesterday eizzer, dat is conclusssion ve reach.)

I had no reason to trust or distrust caf yesterday. Today I feel the burden of proof is on caf to prove town benefits if he wants to sell more lemonade.

Vhat did drinkingk lemonade proof dzat to be hanged by neck to no effect, twize, didn't?

It just proved I had no fear of buying or drinking the lemonade.

[imaginality]

si sunt voinic
Dar sa stii, nu-ti cer nimic

[SlySly]

Swing, batta batta, SWING!!