Newbie 745 - Town wins!

[Spinach]

This reminds me of the first epesiode of Survivor: Tocantanis this year, all about first impressions. I quite honoestly being this is my first game on these forums, feel I can't vote any one of you guys out based on the fact I don't like making decisions without any facts. I therefore have to say my vote has just been to figure you guys out, and I am therefore going to have to once again bring my case to rest with a

unvote

I am very confused with a random vote day.. hm how much longer does this last?

It can last as long as it wants. Sometimes it's seven pages, sometimes it's less than one. I don't know when this is going to end.

Unvote: Bronco

[hohum]

I think we've done a good job already of transitioning from the random voting stage to discussing concerns about one another.

Keep it up guys.

[Mufasa]

I think we've done a good job already of transitioning from the random voting stage to discussing concerns about one another.

Keep it up guys.

You sure do come and go as you please, your lack of contributing seems a bit odd. Well have a nice day.

[hohum]

fun/entertaining =/= pro-town

lurking and active lurking can be scummy, but there is no evidence of this happening. People will post infrequently. I only happen to be posting so frequently right now because I don't have any work to do at the moment.

QFT. I was trying to wrap up a different game. It took a lot of my attention away from this game because it came to a pretty dramatic conclusion. I haven't even created a notebook for this game yet.

I'll post my own thoughts tonight or tomorrow morning when I get a chance to sit down and organize myself a little

[IC Hat]It would be a good idea for every townie here to keep notes on this game. In the notebook, keep a minimum of your own running vote count, a history of who voted for who and when someone drops a scum tell make a note of it so you can build a case later if needed[/IC Hat]

[hohum]

fun/entertaining =/= pro-town

lurking and active lurking can be scummy, but there is no evidence of this happening. People will post infrequently. I only happen to be posting so frequently right now because I don't have any work to do at the moment.

QFT. I was trying to wrap up a different game. It took a lot of my attention away from this game because it came to a pretty dramatic conclusion. I haven't even created a notebook for this game yet.

I'll post my own thoughts tonight or tomorrow morning when I get a chance to sit down and organize myself a little

[IC Hat]It would be a good idea for every townie here to keep notes on this game. In the notebook, keep a minimum of your own running vote count, a history of who voted for who and when someone drops a scum tell make a note of it so you can build a case later if needed[/IC Hat]

[hohum]

sorry for the double post too

[neko2086]

Ah, I think there's been some confusion perhaps on the random voting. Everyone starts the game with one random vote just to get the ball rolling. After that, we try to get serious as soon as possible. The random voting stage usually only lasts a couple pages.

[Family:Kostic]

My random vote on Seamus was in hope to get him active and defend himself but it seems to have not worked and i suspect he is yet to show up.

Unvote: Seamus2008

The way I see it, Mufasa has been overly keen throughout the entire process of getting himself into a game, posting a new thread looking for a new game and 'thanking' the mod for placing him in a game and starting it the next day.

In game he has:
Attempted to stimulate non-game relevant conversation.
Suggested Gabe was cop.
Played the newbie card on numerous occasions.
Voted & unvoted very erratically.

Other than these over-enthusiastic actions, what else makes Mufasa such 'obvious' scum? I cant't see it.

neko

, you have a lot of influence over others in this game topic it seems. You have been on Mufasa's back from the beginning basically. As an experienced player, what makes you so confident that he is Mafia?

broncofaninmd

, what suggests to you that Mufasa is 'blatantly scummy'?

hohum

, are Mufasa's responses to our concerns point to him being scummy In other words, do you plan to stick to you original random vote?

I need to be convinced.

As for you Mufasa, what are your thoughts on the most suss players at the moment?

[Bladewing Vorox]

After reading your post Family:Kostic, I'm beginning to think too that Mufasa is just a bit enthusiastic. I won't vote for him now.

I'm surprised no one has voted for me now. I'm one of the few who hasn't said a lot and I'm really surprised no one has begun to suspect me. Well, it doesn't mean I want someone to vote for me but I'm just a bit surprised, that's all.

[Gabe]

That reminds me, Blade. What are your thoughts on everybody right now?
I'm compiling a short list of my current thoughts on each player individually, and it should be ready by tonight.

[neko2086]

I wouldn't blow his actions off as over-enthusiastic, and I'm quite surprised that you're able to list all of those things and do so.

Posting non-game relevant conversation excessively without contributing anything helpful to the game is known as active lurking, which means he's active in the thread but he may as well not be because he's not contributing. Now, I would agree with you that for this point Mufasa is probably just overly enthusiastic and will be playing seriously soon.

Suggesting that somebody is a cop, even jokingly, is called role-fishing. Scum sometimes do this to get reactions that will help them figure out who does or doesn't have a role, which helps them target specific people. Not sure Mufasa was really trying to do this, but it's not good.

Playing the newbie card excessively is not excusable. Newbies will make mistakes, and this is understandable and excusable, but at the same time if we give a free pass to every newbie who says "oops, just a noob here, don't mind me," every newbie game can and will result in a town loss.

Voting erratically is common on D1, but usually one has a good reason for it. I was more worried about this from Mufasa before than I am now, because he seems to have thought we were going to be random voting all day. He also explained his omgus-looking vote on bronco to be a pressure vote, which is fine, though it still looks like omgus.


I never said I was confident that Mufasa is scum, nor have I called for his immediate lynch. It's helpful, however, to hold a bandwagon of about 3 people on a scummy-looking person, so I very much like my vote.

Bladewing, I will be happy to vote you if/when Mufasa can convince me he's town and willing to do some scumhunting. Can you explain what you mean by, "I won't vote for him

now

"?

[Bladewing Vorox]

That reminds me, Blade. What are your thoughts on everybody right now?
I'm compiling a short list of my current thoughts on each player individually, and it should be ready by tonight.

I'm going to read every post again, then I'm going to post my thoughts.

Bladewing, I will be happy to vote you if/when Mufasa can convince me he's town and willing to do some scumhunting. Can you explain what you mean by, "I won't vote for him

now

"?

If I have good reasons to think he's a scum, then I'm going to vote for him.

[broncofaninmd]

What makes me think he is blantly scummy? Actually the faster question would of been to ask me what makes me think he is town.

1. He vote hops so fast, that he eliminates the sole purpose of a vote.
2. He offered to put me on lynch -2 with a "random" vote.
3. He offers a no-lynch on day one.
4. He offers strategy on one thing, then plays newbie card on others.
5. If in fact he is town, he is drawing much needed attention from scum.

[broncofaninmd]

blantly=blatantly^

[broncofaninmd]

My random vote on Seamus was in hope to get him active and defend himself but it seems to have not worked and i suspect he is yet to show up.

Unvote: Seamus2008

The way I see it, Mufasa has been overly keen throughout the entire process of getting himself into a game, posting a new thread looking for a new game and 'thanking' the mod for placing him in a game and starting it the next day.

In game he has:
Attempted to stimulate non-game relevant conversation.
Suggested Gabe was cop.
Played the newbie card on numerous occasions.
Voted & unvoted very erratically.

Other than these over-enthusiastic actions, what else makes Mufasa such 'obvious' scum? I cant't see it.

neko

, you have a lot of influence over others in this game topic it seems. You have been on Mufasa's back from the beginning basically. As an experienced player, what makes you so confident that he is Mafia?

broncofaninmd

, what suggests to you that Mufasa is 'blatantly scummy'?

hohum

, are Mufasa's responses to our concerns point to him being scummy In other words, do you plan to stick to you original random vote?

I need to be convinced.

As for you Mufasa, what are your thoughts on the most suss players at the moment?

Fk, i have FOS you already, but this comment here just valdidates my thinking. The reasons you list here should warrant major pressure on him. I would like to know what would qualify as scummy behavior in your opinion.

[broncofaninmd]

After reading your post Family:Kostic, I'm beginning to think too that Mufasa is just a bit enthusiastic. I won't vote for him now.

I'm surprised no one has voted for me now. I'm one of the few who hasn't said a lot and I'm really surprised no one has begun to suspect me. Well, it doesn't mean I want someone to vote for me but I'm just a bit surprised, that's all.

So Blade, let me see if I got this right. You say that you should be voted cause you havent said alot, but the behavior of Mufasa shouldnt be enough for a vote?

[broncofaninmd]

Farside, can we get a prod for seamus please.

[Mufasa]

What makes me think he is blantly scummy? Actually the faster question would of been to ask me what makes me think he is town.

1. He vote hops so fast, that he eliminates the sole purpose of a vote.
2. He offered to put me on lynch -2 with a "random" vote.
3. He offers a no-lynch on day one.
4. He offers strategy on one thing, then plays newbie card on others.
5. If in fact he is town, he is drawing much needed attention from scum.

I will answer to the best of my ability each of your concerns.
1. vote hopping I really don't see this scummy, quite honestly by vote hopping I got this place a little rattled up, it was a little strategy but more fun to get all of your brains ticking. I do realize after the fact that you guys have "policies" and didn't realize that was one of them. My apologies. However, on that note I am just an active little bugger and just settling down and being little more patient.
2. I didn't even know what l-2 meant until after ya'll posted that, but I do now. Really the whole purpose of putting you on L-2 was to add a little pressure to you make you sweat it out and most of all get you to react and hopefully stir up this lobster pot.
3. I've never played a mafia game whee no-lynch was even spoken of, I really didn't understand the concept of this, so I suggested a no lynch in order to find out if no lynch on day one is a bad thing or good thing, really quite honestly I didn't see it as a bad thing when I first heard about it but after reading other games and your posts about it I have understood it's pros and cons to the game. And If we want to get some insight into mafia/townies then We need to take the chance lunch one of us as sometimes we can't kill a mafia without sacraficing a few townies in the process.
4.Really on some things like acronyms, new game concepts ( random vote, no lynch, etc. ) are all new terms and ideas for me coming from out side this forum, So yes I had to play the "newbie" card because I truly am new to these ideas and terms. Thanks for bringing light on these. Yes, I do bring some strategy from mafia games outside of these forums as well.
5. AS to this statement, I have taken a lot of heat in the early going, I am just so glad to be in such a great community where I can learn strategies, and new twists and turns on this game that I too may be able to bring some of these concepts and ideas to the outside games. I realize I have done some stupid things already, but seriously I am just an overly anxious teen playing this for the love of the game.

Good Day and God Bless,

PS..human rights activists are up in arms over hildog's trip to china

[farside22]

Farside, can we get a prod for seamus please.

In the future please bold request it just makes it easier to spot.
I will prod him now.

[Spinach]

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
It's your friend, Mufasa. Try not to ask anything that can be easily answered there.

Also -- Please don't bring religion into this, Mufasa.
Also-Also, Nice quintuple post Bronco. <_<

[hohum]

hohum

, are Mufasa's responses to our concerns point to him being scummy In other words, do you plan to stick to you original random vote?

I've been debating about whether or not to answer this question. It's definitely too early in the game to be concrete about anything going on, and anyone who has drawn solid conclusions at this point probably needs to be reexamine their play style.

I like where this wagon is headed, that's why I'm reluctant to remove my vote. By answering this question of course I am removing any pressure that was on Mufasa from my vote being present.

It's generally considered bad practice to question individual motives when the focus of a town is on one person. It's a common tactic implored by scum to introduce a little bit of misdirection and distraction when the town is trying to wagon someone.

I also realize that I had no outstanding questions for him to answer, so you had a right on some level to ask me if I was confident in my vote. The answer to that question is a simple "no." But I've definitely got an eye on him.

On to other issues:

From what I have seen, Gabe doesn't seem phased to say anything. Fearless in a way, could put him up at either end of the scale and is the most unpredictable so far imo..

He is probably the one I am most suspect of at the moment as everyone else just seems a bit cautious...

This is a bit of a contradiction. You say he's your most suspicious, yet you keep your vote on samus. Also, Why is gabe so suspicious? You really haven't said much about it. You've also said in pretty much the same post that he could go either way.

"Fearlessness" isn't a scum tell. It isn't a pro-town tell either. It's just a gameplay style.

I would tend to agree with you regarding seamus' game play so far, but I'm waiting until he's prodded and has a chance to respond to you.

Also -- Please don't bring religion into this, Mufasa.

You must understand that the MafiaScum community is made up of people from all walks of life. If we are going to be in games together we must learn to be tolerant of one another. For example I frequently use what some would consider corse language during games; however I try to keep that to a minimum as not to overly offend those on the religious or conservative fringes of society. Tolerance works both ways, though. I won't preach at someone about their religious beliefs if they don't preach at me for my conduct.

Either way, being called out on something which you're likely to hear from random people throughout the normal course of daily conversation makes the game uncomfortable for everyone and could possibly be misconstrued as an ad-hom attack. Try to stick to game-related tirades.

[hohum]

sorry for the atrocious grammar and spelling in that last post, I could have proofread it before I hit sumbit.

[Gabe]

I will answer to the best of my ability each of your concerns.
5. AS to this statement, I have taken a lot of heat in the early going, I am just so glad to be in such a great community where I can learn strategies, and new twists and turns on this game that I too may be able to bring some of these concepts and ideas to the outside games. I realize I have done some stupid things already, but seriously I am just an overly anxious teen playing this for the love of the game.

Something tells me that Mufasa is pro-town at this point. I'm leaning towards the 'eager newbie' theory, and I think that paying any more attention to Mufasa would be a waste of precious focus.

Instead, I'd like to hear more from Blade and Spinach. I'm organizing a file on my computer to keep myself updated, and I'm still unsure about you two.

From what I have seen, Gabe doesn't seem phased to say anything. Fearless in a way, could put him up at either end of the scale and is the most unpredictable so far imo..

He is probably the one I am most suspect of at the moment as everyone else just seems a bit cautious...

I didn't catch this little bit before, but it tickles me to think that I've been perceived as 'fearless'. But in all seriousness, I'm really not a 'fearless' person.

[Family:Kostic]

From what I have seen, Gabe doesn't seem phased to say anything. Fearless in a way, could put him up at either end of the scale and is the most unpredictable so far imo..

He is probably the one I am most suspect of at the moment as everyone else just seems a bit cautious...

This is a bit of a contradiction. You say he's your most suspicious, yet you keep your vote on samus. Also, Why is gabe so suspicious? You really haven't said much about it. You've also said in pretty much the same post that he could go either way.

"Fearlessness" isn't a scum tell. It isn't a pro-town tell either. It's just a gameplay style.

I would tend to agree with you regarding seamus' game play so far, but I'm waiting until he's prodded and has a chance to respond to you.

I have previously explained why I had my vote on Seamus, in addition to the fact I had no reason to vote for anyone else. As you stated, I did think that his 'fearlessness' could place him either way, it was only an informal FomS to hopefully liven things up. I had no real tell of scumminess on anyone to go by at the time.

[Family:Kostic]

The way I see it, Mufasa has been overly keen throughout the entire process of getting himself into a game, posting a new thread looking for a new game and 'thanking' the mod for placing him in a game and starting it the next day.

In game he has:
Attempted to stimulate non-game relevant conversation.
Suggested Gabe was cop.
Played the newbie card on numerous occasions.
Voted & unvoted very erratically.

Other than these over-enthusiastic actions, what else makes Mufasa such 'obvious' scum? I cant't see it.

Fk, i have FOS you already, but this comment here just valdidates my thinking. The reasons you list here should warrant major pressure on him. I would like to know what would qualify as scummy behavior in your opinion.

I do agree that Mufasa has posted some foolish scummy looking stuff quite regularly but the manner in which he does it just seems too stupid if he is Mafia.
His errors are blatantly obvious and if he was Mafia dont you think he would attempt to be subtle and cautious to stand out a bit less? To me it just seems like he is a VT that is trying to be involved and have some fun...
No offence to Mufasa but it seems like he is the VI, surely you have seen players like this before neko? Your pressure did well to bandwagon him but hopefully there is no tunnelvision now.
The thing is that Mufasa HAS been an easy target and there possibly has been some attempted scapegoating to get him lynched? broncofaninmd put Mufasa at L-2 and has put a lot of effort in trying to get another vote onto him. Doing this means that the other mafia player will then be able to use a number of simple excuses/reasons that are on offer to jump on and get him lynched.
broncofaninmd, I also see your claims as very weak for somebody who is confident that Mufasa is scum.

What makes me think he is blantly scummy? Actually the faster question would of been to ask me what makes me think he is town.

1. He vote hops so fast, that he eliminates the sole purpose of a vote.
2. He offered to put me on lynch -2 with a "random" vote.
3. He offers a no-lynch on day one.
4. He offers strategy on one thing, then plays newbie card on others.
5. If in fact he is town, he is drawing much needed attention from scum.

You change the question to make it easier to answer first of all.
The only claim I see as solid, outside of his over-eagerness or inexperience, is #2 and could be even be due to your 1st claim, that was down to over-eagerness IMO.
Although Mufasa's answer to your Q#2 was a bit contradictory, not understanding what L-2 was then saying you used it as a tactic..?

Broncofaninmd, you have also been trying to convince the rest with numerous posts such as 88, 97, 98, 114 & 115. Questioning why others choose not to vote and subtlly placing pressure on them to do so, saying he is 'blatantly scummy' without any solid reasons..

You FoS'd me twice for not sharing your view on Mufasa's scumminess without even ever instigating a solid reason why Mufasa could be Mafia at all.

Vote:broncofaninmd

Your confidence in thinking Mufasa is Mafia lacks a lot of fact for you to be as sure as you seem to be.