Mini 743: Sanity Ensues - Over!

[Azhrei]

My opinion on the current situation? Hohum should start playing properly or be replaced. Seriously man, you ain't doing anything for yourself by not answering mine (and others') questions.

Oh, and:

and Azhrei seems to be defending you really well.

[to Seb]

You misunderstand me completely. Again. I've not defended Seb at all. I've merely pointed out where you've done things wrong, and if you look, where he has as well. In your whole argument thingy, I've not really liked either side. That said, you have started posting a heap better lately.

-quote wall to do with ZEEnon actin' funny about the Seb case in its early stages-

you said something about a

"little one line about wondering why he never replied"

, which confused me, as i have no idea which little one line (seems to me you are trying to belittle my question)

Ya should be clearer 'bout ya questions. I assumed you meant that you didn't know about the Seb case, as that was how it was worded. As to my "little one line" reference, I was talking about the fact that the only time you mentioned Seb in a particular post of yours, was just one little line about how he hadn't answered a question of yours.

And really, your reasons for voting are

crap

. It's basically a dressed up OMGUS. Your main reason really seems to be he thinks you won't make it to endgame. (Honestly, I don't think you will either) The rest really just seems to be piggybacking off Charrat and GC. And then that last comment... 'does that match up for you?' fuuuuck. Could you sound any scummier, you seem to be trying to make up whatever you think he will believe.

calling anyone's reasons for voting

that

should never be done. yes, some people's reasons don't make sense. yes, some people's reasons are based on false premises. yes, some people's reasons don't make sense at all. but never should you take this game so seriously that you insult another person's beliefs. continuing on.. it was not an OMGUS. i did not vote for him for the sole reason that he voted for me. i voted for him because i personally believe that he is a mafia member. i think that everyone should vote that way. they should vote for someone because they personally believe it, not because other people are starting to think that way, as it appears seb456zig is. he says so-and-so seems suspicious and scummy, yet he leaves his vote on me. not that i care but everytime i see someone else being accused of something, i see seb456zig agree with them, saying: "oh i thought that too but i didn't want to say anything" basically.

Wow. Thanks ZEE. You actually gave me some decent reasons for voting the guy. Now, I wasn't insulting your beliefs, I was insulting your reasoning. The belief that Seb is scum is completely reasonable, and I can understand it. However, the reasons you gave for your belief originally weren't all that great, and as I said, really did seem like a dressed up OMGUS. Now, the reasons you've just given there are valid, and I appreciate them.


And that's about it for me.

[seb456zig]

Woah. That post seems like that kid that tries to make friends so hard, but can't seem to get any. Then he ends up seeming desperate.Azhrei is hurting my brain. I can't stop thinking of him as scum now. I think I should

Unvote:Zee

because I'm not sure about a lot of things. Why {250} seems scummie: first part is just continuation of what everyone else is saying. Next part he says he wasn't defending me. He says this because I'm a ship that he knows is gonna sink. If Zee was the sinking ship he would agree with the post, no doubt about it. The rest of it is just sucking up to Zee. In short,

FoS:Azhrei

[Charrat]

My opinion on the current situation? Hohum should start playing properly or be replaced. Seriously man, you ain't doing anything for yourself by not answering mine (and others') questions.

I second this thought. He doesn't seem interested in playing this game anymore. Said he would re-read and post again, but he didn't.

I am very eager to hear what Zer0ph34r thinks about what has happened so far.

[hohum]

I've posted a few random thoughts and I am interested in this game. I still believe I've answered most of your questions to the best of my ability. You simply reject my explanations and want me to give more.

I could post some analysis, likely to be shot down.

Seriously, what do you guys want me to do?

[springlullaby]

Mod votecount

seb456zig

(4):

Magus_Stragus, alexhans, Charrat, ZEEnon

hohum (3):

Green crayons, Artem, Azhrei,

alexhans (1):

hohum,

ZEEnon (0):

,

Artem (0):
Azhrei (0):
Magus_Stragus (0):
Charrat (0):
Green Crayons (0):
Zerophear (0):

Not voting (1):

Zerophear, seb456zig

Deadline set to February the 20th.

With 10 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Prod count: Green_Crayons, hohum,

Tom

@mod: im quoting what YOU said, so i thought it should be fine to color it in. If that isnt the case, please say so.

I edited out the color from the quoted votecount, it looked messy. I suggest you don't use my color even when you are quoting me, but I'm not going to make a rule or anything, it's just me being anal retentive about it.

[Artem]

Woah. That post seems like that kid that tries to make friends so hard, but can't seem to get any. Then he ends up seeming desperate.Azhrei is hurting my brain. I can't stop thinking of him as scum now. I think I should

Unvote:Zee

because I'm not sure about a lot of things. Why {250} seems scummie: first part is just continuation of what everyone else is saying. Next part he says he wasn't defending me. He says this because I'm a ship that he knows is gonna sink. If Zee was the sinking ship he would agree with the post, no doubt about it. The rest of it is just sucking up to Zee. In short,

FoS:Azhrei

Whoa, whoa.... you're arguing that Azhrei is distancing from you because you're going down?

As far as I'm aware, a scum has no reason to distance from a townie that's about to get lynched. If anything, a scum is likely to keep the pressure up.

Can you explain why I should read your quote as anything other that you suggesting that the two of you are scum buddies?

[seb456zig]

Woah. That post seems like that kid that tries to make friends so hard, but can't seem to get any. Then he ends up seeming desperate.Azhrei is hurting my brain. I can't stop thinking of him as scum now. I think I should

Unvote:Zee

because I'm not sure about a lot of things. Why {250} seems scummie: first part is just continuation of what everyone else is saying. Next part he says he wasn't defending me. He says this because I'm a ship that he knows is gonna sink. If Zee was the sinking ship he would agree with the post, no doubt about it. The rest of it is just sucking up to Zee. In short,

FoS:Azhrei

Whoa, whoa.... you're arguing that Azhrei is distancing from you because you're going down?

As far as I'm aware, a scum has no reason to distance from a townie that's about to get lynched. If anything, a scum is likely to keep the pressure up.

Can you explain why I should read your quote as anything other that you suggesting that the two of you are scum buddies?

Well, unless you think that the AzhreiZee relationship is scum, then no. I'm saying that he is hiding behind town to look town (or to make the townie look scum). I am going to leave it at that. Feel free to question me about anything, I'm not sure if I'll be able to answer them, but it's worth a shot.

[Azhrei]

Woah. That post seems like that kid that tries to make friends so hard, but can't seem to get any. Then he ends up seeming desperate.Azhrei is hurting my brain. I can't stop thinking of him as scum now. I think I should

Unvote:Zee

because I'm not sure about a lot of things. Why {250} seems scummie: first part is just continuation of what everyone else is saying. Next part he says he wasn't defending me. He says this because I'm a ship that he knows is gonna sink. If Zee was the sinking ship he would agree with the post, no doubt about it. The rest of it is just sucking up to Zee. In short,

FoS:Azhrei

What the hell? I said I wasn't defending you, because I wasn't. I never said anything about you being a ship that I knew was going down. And I'd not have said I was defending you even if ZEE was looking to be losing that argument. Talk about blatant misrepresentation. Here, lets have a look at my post.

and Azhrei seems to be defending you really well.

[to Seb]

You misunderstand me completely. Again. I've not defended Seb at all. I've merely pointed out where you've done things wrong, and if you look, where he has as well. In your whole argument thingy, I've not really liked either side. That said, you have started posting a heap better lately.

Hm... Where's the bit where I say you're a sinking ship? I don't see it. I say that I don't really like either side, and that ZEE is posting better, but not that you're stuffed.


You know, the only good reason I can think of for that post is you're scum, and you want to associate me with you, thinking that you're going down, and hoping to make me look like your scumbussy so that I'll get lynched tomorrow.

Problem is, you're too crap at being scum to even pull that one off properly. Ever heard of subtlety?

[seb456zig]

Problem is, you're too crap at being scum to even pull that one off properly. Ever heard of subtlety?

Or maybe I just suck at town roles. When I used the "sinking ship" argument, I completly forgot about the

I've not really liked either side.

thing you said. And you say that Zee has been posting beter, even if his arguments are flawed. THAT is probably the main thing that makes me see you as scum.

[Magus_Stragus]

Geez, Seb, I can't seem to agree on you about anything. In fact, I can't even see your "reasons" behind your accusations on other players. It's not that I'm taking a side with someone, it's just that I can't see your reasons. You say "I find x player scummy because I find it suspicious." Or now that last post of you saying that Azhrei is scummy just because he said that "ZEE has been posting better, even though his arguments are flawed"? Well, just one thing to add: maybe I'm getting it all wrong, but I also think that ZEE is posting better. I mean, if you look as his first posts, you'll see that the latest ones are better both aesthetically and gameplay-wise. Either way, that's not really a good reason to see someone as scum.

I like that idea that you are scum and you're trying to take down somebody with you.

[Artem]

Well, unless you think that the AzhreiZee relationship is scum, then no. I'm saying that he is hiding behind town to look town (or to make the townie look scum). I am going to leave it at that. Feel free to question me about anything, I'm not sure if I'll be able to answer them, but it's worth a shot.

No, you said that Azhrei is distancing from you because you're sinking. I'm saying that it implies that you're both scum.

Is that all the questions you got, because i enjoy answering them. It makes me feel important.

Im not sure if i answered the questions the way you liked. If you have any followup questions then just shoot (as in just ask them, not NK me)

@people that have questions towards me: ask them

others im not sure about. If you have any questions for me, please ask them.

Feel free to question me about anything...

I don't like this continuing call for questions. What makes you think that other players are withholding their questions? It seems that you're trying very hard to appear helpful and/or transparent. Meanwhile, you have been sidestepping some of the questions directed at you.

[alexhans]

I got a bit lost with all the Zee vs Seb argument but Seb is looking scummier every minute

Woah. That post seems like that kid that tries to make friends so hard, but can't seem to get any. Then he ends up seeming desperate.Azhrei is hurting my brain. I can't stop thinking of him as scum now. I think I should

Unvote:Zee

because I'm not sure about a lot of things. Why {250} seems scummie: first part is just continuation of what everyone else is saying. Next part he says he wasn't defending me. He says this because I'm a ship that he knows is gonna sink. If Zee was the sinking ship he would agree with the post, no doubt about it. The rest of it is just sucking up to Zee. In short,

FoS:Azhrei

What's this...? A sudden change of mind? I agree with whoever said that the only result you get with this kind of post is a possible implication of Azhrei as a possible scum.

Problem is, you're too crap at being scum to even pull that one off properly. Ever heard of subtlety?

Or maybe I just suck at town roles. When I used the "sinking ship" argument, I completly forgot about the

I've not really liked either side.

thing you said. And you say that Zee has been posting beter, even if his arguments are flawed. THAT is probably the main thing that makes me see you as scum.

You suck at town roles? what is that response? come on...

if you're L-2 and innocent the remaining mafia (unless they're all in a bandwaggon against you) will surely finish up the lynch so the fact that no one issues the last votes could mean you're scum.

I, too, think that Zeenon is definetly posting better... I made an experiment recently assembling a list of everyone and reading from the start giving a minus to each scummy post and a plus to each townie looking post... I left it at page 4 but Zee had a lot of minuses... Still I think it was more innocent mistakes than real scum-tales. But he is learning, apparently.

I agree with Azhrei and charrat about Hohum's attitude... he seems to be confortably laying low and that is always worrying.

If I could vote twice... I'd vote Seb again.

[hohum]

I agree with Azhrei and charrat about Hohum's attitude... he seems to be confortably laying low and that is always worrying.

If you think that then lynch me. I have a stance on policy lynches and I enjoy talking about this subject whenever it comes up. I wouldn't blame anyone for lynching me, if they honestly believe I'm purposefully trying to lay low this game.

Mostly my attitude stems from a lack of desire for self-preservation. I know my role and I know even if I do get lynched there's a good chance that positive things will come out of it, and allow you guys to effectively scum hunt tomorrow, instead of tying yourselves up into WIOFMy knots about whether or not I should be lynched.

I'm going to reiterate and maintain my stance about the various "questioning" that everyone says I'm ignoring. I have -- and to the best of my abilities -- attempted to address everyone's concerns. When I do post something in defense of myself it is typically dismissed and the questions are repeated. It's a cycle intended to be sufficiently vague enough to appear helpful but at the same time making it impossible for me to respond effectively.

As for my lack of posting recently: I don't want to be in the pilot seat if all I'm going to do is draw fire over my actions.

[alexhans]

Lynching a townie is NEVER good Hohum. So if you claim to be pro town why do you keep asking us to lynch you? make an effort for the town and play this game with all your ability.

[hohum]

Lynching a townie is NEVER good Hohum.

So if you claim to be pro town why do you keep asking us to lynch you? make an effort for the town and play this game with all your ability.

Fallacy. Lynching towines is not a bad thing if it exposes scum, or if a townie's play is actually detrimental to the town.

This game was designed so that mis-lynches can occur in town victory scenarios.

[alexhans]

Well... I don't know... Are you saying your play is detrimental for the town? I suppose not... And how on earth your death is supposed to expose scum? by looking at who voted you? or what? I think that if you told us your suspicions while you're alive (instead of us guessing after lynching you) I would be awesome...

[alexhans]

EDIT: IT would be awesome

sorry... quick reply mistake.

[hohum]

Well... I don't know... Are you saying your play is detrimental for the town? I suppose not... And how on earth your death is supposed to expose scum? by looking at who voted you? or what? I think that if you told us your suspicions while you're alive (instead of us guessing after lynching you) I would be awesome...

Yes, looking at who was pushing my wagon would be one way to tell, but you usually have to look at such things in the context of two wagons to find commonality instead of one.

Another way to weed out scum would be to look at who I've had direct conflict with. So far I've had the most direct conflict with you, and artem -- though Artem began to look pro town to me a while ago.

I'm just wondering why you're suddenly so concerned about me when seb's wagon is looking perfectly sustained right now. I have answered every question thrown at me (although it's clear that nobody likes my answers) and I wake up when prodded. I will answer any questions directed at me, and I will continue to contribute opinions when I feel it is appropriate for me to chime in.

I feel like that time is now. You seem to be trying to provide a little bit of misdirection here. Asking me the same questions again that you've been asking and not receiving satisfactory answers to certainly qualifies as distracting. I think you've reached the point where you feel as if you've bussed your scum partner long enough and are trying to get everyone to hop back onto my wagon. Good luck with that.

[Artem]

Hmm.... the last few posts from hohum actually give off a townie vibe. However, I don't like the "staying low to avoid drawing flak" argument. If you're town, all you're doing is stalling the discussion, which is not helpful in the slightest.

I think it would be good if those of us who are voting hohum, re-state the questions we feel he didn't answer, instead of going around in circles with the "I've already answered everything" and "You never answered anything" arguments.

Here's one from me where I felt you left me hanging, hohum (keeping the nested quotes to give context):

Curious, why would you changed your vote instead of simply calling me out with a FoS, HoS or IGMEOY? And how could you be certain that you made the correct choice 3 pages in to day 1?

You have no problems flinging your vote around, yet somehow you feel that you deserve a special treatment. What's with the double standards?

It was a probing question, I ask it all the time.

And what do you generally get, besides the game preference debate we had happen here, which only distracted the town. Got any examples where it helped you catch scum?

Also, I was not answering the question. I was commenting on you asking it.

[Artem]

EDWOP: I would actually like you to provide me several examples where you ask that question. Since you "ask it all the time", it shouldn't be a problem, right?

[Green Crayons]

As far as I'm aware, a scum has no reason to distance from a townie that's about to get lynched. If anything, a scum is likely to keep the pressure up.

Could you explain your reasoning behind this a bit more? I don't really follow.

[Artem]

@Green Canyons: In my experience, the scum will keep the pressure up on a sinking townie to ensure a mislynch. After the said player is lynched and flips town, the scum will likely attempt to distance themselves from the lynch.

So, to clarify my statement: the mafia will likely attempt to distance themselves from their partners

before

the lynch (and from townie wagons

after

the lynch).

[Artem]

Also, distancing for a sinking scum-buddy and distancing from a townie wagon are two different things.

Next part he says he wasn't defending me. He says this because I'm a ship that he knows is gonna sink.

Going back on defending somebody (not that that's what Azhrei was doing, but it's what Seb is accusing him of) does not really make sense as a distancing from a townie wagon method. I read it as accusation of distancing from a scum buddy.

[Zer0ph34r]

hohum, at first I found you suspicious, but I can relate to the fact that you know your role in this game and your playing how you want. I was originally going to vote to lynch you, but seeing this side of your thoughts, as risky as this may be, I'm going to go with the next most suspicious person I found, which was seb456zig.

Vote: seb456zig

[ZEEnon]

i have to head out but i've been thinking.. nobody has really come to seb456zig's defense yet. which is surprising, assuming that he is scum. normally there would be

someone

defending their partner with the majority of votes. i'm starting to doubt my vote a little. i'll try to post more when i get back .