Mini 734 - GrimMafia - OVER

[Nuwen]

Lovely. Zero's wagon is virtually worthless, as his actions were scummy enough to warrant genuine pro-town scathe. Splicing pro-town intent versus convenient scum propulsion will be difficult.

Vote: springlullaby

- Far too much emphasis on wagoning Jere after Zero's clean lynch was spoiled by multiplayer support of the "noob" rationale, which proved to be correct. The ensuing argument between her and Zach is fluff; I'm inclined to believe that if spring flips scum, Zach will as well after diverting attention away from her mismatched voting on Zero/Jere.

[zwetschenwasser]

It's clear that Jere's flip as town puts a lot of incrimination on spring, and I completely agree with Nuwen.

[JereIC]

Nooooooooooooo... *keels over*

Go... town! ack!

[zwetschenwasser]

We miss you...

[Ectomancer]

Real busy trying to deal with house buying (and repairing the one I'm in for sale) this week in particular. Hope to find some time this weekend to look at connections, but I do have a quick question for Nuwen.
I'm not certain that you have taken into account the whole situation with your theory. If JereIC flipping town is such an indicator of Spring's alignment, why would Spring have NK'd JereIC instead of someone else? I understand the old "He was creating WIFOM" argument, but with the attention it would garner, I think that hitting someone else, then going after JereIC as a lynch target today would have gained him one more day (and night) without this type of pressure. What reason do you think that Spring would have had for killing him last night? JereIC too much for him to handle during daytime discussion? Something Jere said rang too close to home for scum? He thinks Jere breadcrumbed a role?

By the way,
Nuwen's post = thinking and explanation
Zwet's post= band-wagon building "Yeah, what he said." with no obvious thought or explanation of his own individual motivation.

[zwetschenwasser]

In case you didn't notice, my first post was "spring is scum", before Nuwen.

[Nuwen]

I'm not certain that you have taken into account the whole situation with your theory. If JereIC flipping town is such an indicator of Spring's alignment, why would Spring have NK'd JereIC instead of someone else? I understand the old "He was creating WIFOM" argument, but with the attention it would garner, I think that hitting someone else, then going after JereIC as a lynch target today would have gained him one more day (and night) without this type of pressure. What reason do you think that Spring would have had for killing him last night? JereIC too much for him to handle during daytime discussion? Something Jere said rang too close to home for scum? He thinks Jere breadcrumbed a role?

I thought the WIFOM situation it created would be reason enough. I'm sure either scum predicted that this conversation would take place; it's equally possible that Jere did nothing remarkable at all, except act as a target for spring, and his kill is supposed to flag the unremarkable. Those two pieces of WIFOM alone make the kill worthwhile.

[Nuwen]

In case you didn't notice, my first post was "spring is scum", before Nuwen.

Yeah, that's why Ecto and I don't like it. We realize that you've been pursuing spring since yesterday, but you didn't point out how Jere and Zero's alignment confirmed spring's alignment to you. I have the reasons I stated, but they're less definitive - care to share yours?

When playing mafia, it's a good idea to assume others players cannot read minds.

[zwetschenwasser]

I thought it was clear from yesterday's spring/jere debate that jere's alignment would point towards spring's scum/towniness.

[Zachrulez]

I thought it was clear from yesterday's spring/jere debate that jere's alignment would point towards spring's scum/towniness.

Why does that make me think YOU killed JereIC?

[Beyond_Birthday]

I'm not certain that you have taken into account the whole situation with your theory. If JereIC flipping town is such an indicator of Spring's alignment, why would Spring have NK'd JereIC instead of someone else? I understand the old "He was creating WIFOM" argument, but with the attention it would garner, I think that hitting someone else, then going after JereIC as a lynch target today would have gained him one more day (and night) without this type of pressure. What reason do you think that Spring would have had for killing him last night? JereIC too much for him to handle during daytime discussion? Something Jere said rang too close to home for scum? He thinks Jere breadcrumbed a role?

I thought the WIFOM situation it created would be reason enough. I'm sure either scum predicted that this conversation would take place; it's equally possible that Jere did nothing remarkable at all, except act as a target for spring, and his kill is supposed to flag the unremarkable. Those two pieces of WIFOM alone make the kill worthwhile.

Following both rationale, I don't quite see scum needing to create this wifom now, is possibly Ecto's point. I could see the wifom argument as being legitimate AFTER Spring is in trouble and attracting attention because then it could be conceivable to pull the "Poor pitiful me, scum is framing me" argument, but I don't see the argument in creating this much wifom early on.

However, we cannot discount your point Nuwen, so I too have a question:

If Spring scum, then who else is scum?

[Nuwen]

Based on the grandiose misdirects I theorized in 224, Zach is the likely buddy. However, I wouldn't place a ton of weight on that exchange - it wasn't choreographed excessively, and it's more common for scum buddies to avoid

any

interaction on Day 1, barring extreme bus gambits. Spring's partner is an independent entity right now.

[Nuwen]

*is probably an independent entity.

[Ectomancer]

I did miss the last post of page 14 Zwet, the chronology of events weighs better in your favor, but I do still have concerns about your lack of expressed reasoning.

I thought it was clear from yesterday's spring/jere debate that jere's alignment would point towards spring's scum/towniness.

Why does that make me think YOU killed JereIC?

I think this also deserves an answer. I find it likely that lesser experienced scum would be be tempted to put forth the theory they setup with the previous nightkill, especially when they provide very little in the way of reasoning. Also of note is your lack of a vote. I know some people depend upon previous vote counts to see who was pushing what, but in this case you are definitely trying some momentum building and are apparently waiting for it to get some legs before actually jumping on yourself.

[zwetschenwasser]

Did everyone forget BB's reluctance to hop on the Zero wagon? Sounds like scum not wanting to be on a town mislynch wagon.

[Nuwen]

Did everyone forget BB's reluctance to hop on the Zero wagon? Sounds like scum not wanting to be on a town mislynch wagon.

BB was one of the earliest votes on Zero (L-4/5) and stayed there until he sided with my noob-town theory about Zero for a brief period, then hopped back on again in post 282. I'm not reading a distance attempt in the slightest, and would really like to know where your read is coming from. I'd also like to know why you're intentionally ignoring Zach and Ecto's accusations in 359/363, which are quite weighty, in favor of highlighting a false point about BB.

[zwetschenwasser]

What accusations? All he said is that Zach didn't vote. BB is reluctant because of that noob town switch. It was too hasty and seemed contrived.

[Nuwen]

What accusations? All he said is that Zach didn't vote. BB is reluctant because of that noob town switch. It was too hasty and seemed contrived.

Reading comprehension is a life skill. I believe Ecto's post is aimed at

you

, quoting Zach only to reiterate his theory that

you're

the scum who pushed for Jere's NK with the hope of dumping culpability on Spring.

I don't see how you're making a point - because BB was on the wagon, removed himself from it to pursue Spring, and then

got back on vehemently with apologies to his middle suspect

, he's trying allay responsibility?

[zwetschenwasser]

Yes. I don't get how Ecto's post is aimed at me. Is he asking me something?

[Nuwen]

Yes. I don't get how Ecto's post is aimed at me. Is he asking me something?

Yes. All of the following statements in the second person are addressing you.

I did miss the last post of page 14

Zwet

, the chronology of events weighs better in your favor,

but I do still have concerns about your lack of expressed reasoning.

I thought it was clear from yesterday's spring/jere debate that jere's alignment would point towards spring's scum/towniness.

Why does that make me think YOU killed JereIC?

I think this also deserves an answer. I find it likely that lesser experienced scum would be be tempted to put forth the theory they setup with the previous nightkill, especially when they provide very little in the way of reasoning.

Also of note is your lack of a vote. I know some people depend upon previous vote counts to see who was pushing what, but in this case you are definitely trying some momentum building and are apparently waiting for it to get some legs before actually jumping on yourself.

Condensed:

1. Can you comment on the following theory: rather than a direct Spring -> Jere kill, Zach thinks that

you

pushed for the NK on Jere with the intention of dumping blame for the kill on Spring. I don't support this theory, but I would like to hear you respond to it.

2. Ecto and I want to know why your vote isn't on Spring, even though you immediately called her out as scum. He believes that you're biding your time, waiting until other players have bolstered her wagon before adding your vote.

[Ectomancer]

Back up, read my last 2 posts, then give a response. It is definitely aimed at you. The first post has questions regarding your theory, the 2nd is an accusation that I'd like to hear you defend yourself against.

[zwetschenwasser]

Oops. I thought I did vote spring on page fourteen. I must have deleted it.

Vote: Spring

. I'd like Zach to explain exactly why my post makes him think I pushed for a NK, using quotes from yesterday. I never showed much interest in Spring yesterday, and I don't think I implied yesterday that I was going after the spring case today. I simply noticed the arguments presented against spring, and now that significant incriminating evidence has been provided, I have good grounds to find him scummy.

[Zachrulez]

Oops. I thought I did vote spring on page fourteen. I must have deleted it.

Vote: Spring

. I'd like Zach to explain exactly why my post makes him think I pushed for a NK, using quotes from yesterday. I never showed much interest in Spring yesterday, and I don't think I implied yesterday that I was going after the spring case today. I simply noticed the arguments presented against spring, and now that significant incriminating evidence has been provided, I have good grounds to find him scummy.

JereIC dying incriminates Spring?

See, I find you suspicious because you are trying to push the idea that Spring is scum on the basis of a nightkill alone.

The thing is, I don't really see a decent reason for Spring to kill JereIC, but since there was some exchange between JereIC and Spring, it would make sense for

someone else

to kill JereIC and advance the idea that Spring is definitely scum because of the fact that she was going at it with JereIC the previous day.

While there is a WIFOM argument to be made for Spring killing JereIC for that exact reason, I think you have overplayed your hand sir.

[springlullaby]

Lovely. Zero's wagon is virtually worthless, as his actions were scummy enough to warrant genuine pro-town scathe. Splicing pro-town intent versus convenient scum propulsion will be difficult.

Vote: springlullaby

- Far too much emphasis on wagoning Jere after Zero's clean lynch was spoiled by multiplayer support of the "noob" rationale, which proved to be correct. The ensuing argument between her and Zach is fluff; I'm inclined to believe that if spring flips scum, Zach will as well after diverting attention away from her mismatched voting on Zero/Jere.

Let's see, the reason you are voting me are:

1. Wagonning Jere "after the Zero wagon was spoilt"?
I never supported it in the first place.

2. Argument between Zach and myself is fluff?
How do you define fluff? On my part, I think it was useful for me to gain a better read of Zach.

I think your attack stand on very shaky grounds.

Now, please state who you think is scum beside me.

[Grimmy]

Question for the (remaining) players.

Do you guys even NEED a deadline? or should we just let things go as they are.

As so not to reveal (unintentionally) any role info, please PM me your thoughts, so if I put it to a vote, I know where you stand.

Thanks
Grimmy
still working out the kinks of this whole "mod" thing