Mini 727 - Mafia in Standardville - Game Over

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Lowell all your informative posts deal with you being the subject of derailment. You throw around derailment and maybe eventually it'll stick to one of your cases. You've lurked so why shouldn't you be pressed. Also, why shouldn't I "reference/chide/admonish/notice" your lurking when you have done it throughout thia entire game. Just because I point something out doesn't mean I have to lay my vote down. Maybe if I had two votes I'd thrown one on you too. But I see a more pressing matter to deal with Panzer. I've seen several suspicions in people and called out Tubby as well. Does that mean I should be voting him as well?

[Master Ruck]

My vote is far from derailment. I still think panzer is scum and I would put my vote back on him if the need arose, but as of yet it has not. I voted for you simply to get some more information out of you and, to some extent, it has done as such. Your big PbP analysis shows you have caught up with the game and given your views on it. In order to make me believe you are town (or at least consider it more so than I am now) you need to post content like this often or actually get involved with someone else and make a case or get into an argument with them. Your lurking is doing you no good and I'm seeing it more and more as a scum tell instead of it being null.

[Lowell]

I'll admit you guys do whine more than most games I'm in. So that's a plus I guess.

[Artem]

@Lowell: So basically, everybody who's voting you or wants to vote you is scummy and you don't have opinions about anybody else in the game. Yea, happy with my vote.

Post 694 by master ruck is very very bad. This looks like textbook, almost-too-obvious derailment. Panzer is within a vote of being lynched. MR voted panzer just after the expansion of the case by charter in 634. When the wagon gained steam, he jumped onto the most obvious wagon (Lowell). Nothing really happend between 634 and 695 that should have made a difference, but he knows that he's insulated by the fact that (a) I dont' defend myself that often, and (b) artem's narrowminded pursuit of me.

My posts happened between 634 and 695.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

Panzerjager (4) - Charter, Lynx the Antithesis, Tubby216, Lowell
Lowell (2) - Artem, Master Ruck
Lynx the Antithesis (2) - Darox, Panzerjager

Not Voting (2) - Danchaofan, Artifex

[charter]

So it's an assumption, not something that you know as you said earlier. I know this isn't much of a point, but it bugs me when people claim to be certain of something in this game when it's nothing more than speculation. Don't get me wrong, you're probably right as 2+ investigative roles would be a bit broken, but it's still something you can't actually know unless you are also the giver of roles.

I claim my suspicions as fact all the time.

698- No, it doesn't look like derailment.
699- This said nothing.

[Master Ruck]

So anything you say is certain is nothing more than your own opinion. Right, got it.

[charter]

Well, you can't just assume that. For example, when I claim Artem is town, Artem is 100% town. It is a fact. When I say Panzer is scum, that's just my thoughts.

[Master Ruck]

Just so long as you make that distinction clear, I won't harass you on it anymore.

[charter]

I can clarify if you ask me to when I state something as fact if it is indeed a fact or just my thoughts.

[Master Ruck]

I will note that for the future, but it would be more helpful if I didn't have to ask as it would be clear to see on first glance.

[LlamaFluff]

Starting the search for an Artifex replacement

[charter]

Where is dan in terms of being replaced? I get the feeling that he can't handle the pressure of his buddy about to be lynched.

[charter]

Actually, I could vote for dan too. He's posting plenty in other games, but not in this one. I think it's cause he's Panzer's buddy (possibly Lowell's too) as lowell was my third pick for scum last night.

[PJ.]

Tracker and Hider, yes thats a lot of power, but normally Tracker and Watcher are paired together and that's just as much power. First off, Tracker and Hider are weak investigative roles. Hider can lead to 2 deaths and Tracker can inadvertantly out power roles. Also PGO risks uskilling ourselves had he not outted himself.

@Artem, I'm not saying give all lurkers a pass. Lurking is scummy. Active Lurking is scummier(I'm looking at you Darox) but when it's a null tell it is a null tell. I don't think in Lowell's case it is that scummy(still scummy) because he lurks no matter what. Also, I think you have a fantastic point with people oppurtunistically jumping on me and I think there is at least one scum on me probably 2.

Unvote:Vote:Lowell

In light of his oppurtunistic hope onto my wagon.

@ Lynx, I was implying Mafia roleblocker. I figured I had been role blocked because I got no investigation. I believed the hider claim because it made a lot of sense with my investigation so when he claimed I was like ok. When he did this whole, random turn around on me, he simply reaffirmed my beliefs that I could possibly be blocked by his buddy. The reason I believe Artem is town is because I don't think charter would claim to have investigated a buddy.

[Darox]

Hey Panzer, active lurking implies I'm talking but not saying anything.

Maybe you should try revising your statement.

Also, that was serious derailment Ruck.
Panzer was about to be lynched, and because of you, he isn't currently hanging.

[charter]

If we don't lynch panzer today I am hiding behind him at night. I am that sure that he is scum that only I will die and you guys can lynch him tomorrow. (and then dan the day after)

[Danchaofan]

I've re-read to page 20-ish and am preparing to make a post... sorry for the delay =/

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Charter isn't it a bad idea to tell who you're hiding behind tonight because in the chance that Panzer's town and you target Panzer, then you're both dead with a scum hit. Even if you think you'll aid the town if you tell us who you're targeting for the next day wouldn't it be best to leave your hiding in the dark? Even if you're nearly positive the person's scum. The thing is that if you hit scum and die, the scum are still gonna get their nightkill. So we'd have two dead townies and we wouldn't know if you hit scum. Haha if only you could tell us who you targeted in your Bah post... you can't do that right?

Panzer do you think that there's a possibility that all three of you are power roles? Do you think the negatives of each of your claimed roles would be enough to balance the town.

Darox, did Panzer's last few statements clear him for you. You said you wanted to hear from him before you layed your vote. Are you still wary of him? You question Ruck for derailment, but you can easily substitute your own vote for his own. If Panzer was lynched and turned up scum, then I'd be questionable of Ruck's possible derailment. I personally think Ruck's town at the moment. And who would you think would be more likely scum between Panzer and Lowell if you had to move your vote?

I feel like I've been the only one to look into Tubby. He's done pratically the same lurking/little content as Lowell with just more vote hopping. He's like a Lowell 2.0. No one has said anything about Tubby and I definitely feel he's flown under the radar for this game because of that fact. Panzer especially, Tubby opportunistically jumped on your wagon exactly like Lowell did. Are you not looking at him too? I think he should definitely be looked into on Day 3 as I don't think he'll be the lynch of this day.

[charter]

Crap I forgot about that. No, pretty sure I'd be banned if I told you who I hid behind.

[Master Ruck]

I want to make it clear that I am still happy with a Panzer lynch and I will revote him, heck, even hammer him, if the call goes out for it. He still looks like todays lynch anyway even with my unvote, which is exactly why I did it. There was no drastic change by taking 1 vote off panzer and I do agree with Artem that Lowell (and tubby as well as lynx said, but I picked Lowell today) needs to contribute more. Panzer has given us enough to think about on him and a few others, so rather than fixate solely on him, it felt right to get more information from another source before another day ends and hopefully give us some kind of a lead when D3 starts.

[Danchaofan]

sorry, I've only been responding in a newbie I'm in because I'm mostly just defending myself from one guy which takes relatively little time.

I think we have a bit more time until deadline because artifex is being replaced and it's past midnight where I am so I'm going to bed and posting more tomorrow. Sory =/

[Artem]

Wait, no I think there's something to it. If charter hides behind Panzer:

a) If Panzer is town, mafia targets him. We lose two townies.
b) If Panzer is scum, mafia targets somebody else. We lose two townies (one nightkill and charter as a result of him hiding behind mafia). However, because Panzer is alive, we KNOW that Panzer is scum.
c) If Panzer is town and mafia DOESN'T target him then charter lives and we have a confirmed townie.

In all three cases, we learn Panzer's alignment. In two of these cases, we lose two townies. So, we can think of it as trading charter for knowing somebody's alignment, a one-shot investigation.

That said, I don't think we should waste charter's power on Panzer. Even though I'm more confident that Lowell is scum over Panzer, a Panzer lynch makes sense and I'm willing to switch my vote to Panzer (of course, now that I said that Lowell has even less reason to post). The question is, do we use our one-shot investigation tonight or just let charter hide secretly?

[Artem]

Thinking of it, Lowell might be a good candidate to one-shot investigate since many players expressed the fact that he's a null-tell. In the worst case, we will lose charter and a lazy townie that doesn't contribute anything anyway. Still thinking about the best strategy, though.

[charter]

Yeah, I knew I wasn't crazy when I suggested it.

I also think dan has used all of his stalling for this game.