Mini 727 - Mafia in Standardville - Game Over

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

Panzerjager (5) - Charter, Lynx the Antithesis, Master Ruck, Tubby216, Lowell
Lynx the Antithesis (2) - Darox, Panzerjager
Lowell (1) - Artem

Not Voting (2) - Danchaofan, Artifex

[charter]

I think I'd like to hear a claim. We didn't do that with Xdaamno and I feel that was a fairly big mistake for us.

by his threatening to self hammer, it was apparant he was not a power role.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Good catch I'm certainly not as a perceptive as you. Are you not for the claim though this time as well? And I realize my first sentence is sounds sarcastic, but its really not.

[charter]

I mean, Panzer can claim if he wants, it's not going to erase all his scummy actions, and since I know he's not a cop or anything, I really don't forsee any role he's going to claim that will make it so not lynching him outweighs lynching him.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I'd still like to hear it personally so I guess the spotlight's on Panzer now.

[Danchaofan]

I've lost sense of the game in the time I was away... re-reading now...

[LlamaFluff]

If Artifex has not posted by tomorrow morning I will begin searching for a replacement. In the event that any player needs to be replaced in the night stage, I will not start the next day untill I obtain a replacement, or they pick up a prod.

[charter]

What happens if a hider hides behind a PGO MOD?

No questions regarding how any hypothetical roles would interact will be answered (apart from this answer)

[PJ.]

Tracker. I tracked charter that's intially why I thought he was cleared because I got a no result. I then started thinking I may have been role blocked.

[PJ.]

EBWOP: I intially thought I was roleblocked, then I saw the game and understood and I didn't want to come out and say I thought he was 100%. This is why i dropped the Artem thing. I'm back to thinking I was roleblocked.

@Charter, How come I couldn't have been cop? How would you know unless you are some kind of Mafia role cop. I'm really thinking about lynching you just on the basis you had a narrow mindset on my claim to begin with.

[PJ.]

Also, I'm gonna be V/LA until Sunday evening.

[charter]

Tracker. I tracked charter that's intially why I thought he was cleared because I got a no result. I then started thinking I may have been role blocked.

So much bullshit. Doesn't fit with your actions either. Plus, hider and tracker together? Please, we'd be having more than one kill a night if that's the case. That's an obscene amount of investigative power for the town for just one kill a night.

ALSO, PANZER IS LYING SCUM. His thinking their being a roleblocker doesn't reflect what he said in game.

[Artem]

My thoughts on Panzer:

My initial problem with Panzer was that he went from having massive amounts of suspicion on me to saying that I've defended myself sufficiently. However, I feel that he addressed the point pretty well during Day 1. Since then, the arguments against him were not that great. Many accuse him of opportunistic vote-hopping, yet the accusers themselves are just as guilty of that, and without knowing players' alignments with certainty, I'm having second thoughts about everybody.

I don't like this post:

I've played with Lowell before and he is a chronic lurker. Other then a couple of mildly scummy post, he's not so bad. He's nowhere near as scummy as lynx. Lynx gets my vote, because voting myself would be stupid. Only other person that is mildly scummy is Ruck, who I'm contemplating making a case for. Have to re-read him and decide if he is worse then ruck.

..because it effectively says that we should encourage lurking by ignoring it. How is that a pro-town attitude? If somebody lurks, you keep applying more and more pressure on them until they start to provide content and you get a better read on them. Several people said that they have a null-tell on Lowell, yet it's so easy to fix that. Just pile up pressure votes until Lowell starts dropping either scum-tells or town-tells, either of which is better than the null-tell. Players that are hesitant to use their vote to get better hints of somebody's alignment are either poor players or scum unwilling to bring their buddy Lowell to a spotlight.

I also don't like this:

After Panzer flips scum, MR has stocked up on town points, it's not too late to get yours too!

ok i heard enough

untvote: vote: panzer

I agree. unvote, vote panzer. This is a better option than lynx.

I'm sticking with my vote.

[charter]

Artem, what do you think of his claim and how it does not fit with what he's been saying in thread?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I do agree that it'd be somewhat unbalanced to have a hider plus a tracker. Though I'm not sure how many power roles we'd normally have in a mini. If we assume that both Charter's and Panzer's claims are true, then you have to take into consideration the fact that Charter said ALL night actions against him fail. Meaning that Panzer's tracking wouldn't have gone through. Panzer, are you implying a mafia or town roleblocker? What caused you to switch your thinking from role blocker to a true claim back to role blocker?

I don't buy Panzer's claim really. Though I have been skeptical of every claim that has been given. I definitely don't think that all these claims are true. I believe at least one of you is lying. And right now Panzer's comes off as the most fabricated to me. Darox had no need to claim so I'm still debating myself whether not scum would risk such an exposure to attention. Charter's claim I believe the most out of the three with his breadcrumbs and more of a townie vibe has been emitted from him(very actively scumhunting). Right now my vote stays.

As for the wagon, I definitely agree with Artem that I don't like some of the comments about it. Namely the bandwaggoning from Lowell and Tubby. Tubby's been the worst I think with his. He jumped on my wagon and Panzer's with relatively nothing to add. Lowell hasn't been much better. He's proceeded in this game basically ignoring Artem's case on him. I've read a game with him recently. He played the same exact way(posting infrequently with very little contribution). I don't believe this excuse his behavior here. Though I do find Panzer scummier than both. This could largely be due to Panzer's larger contribution to the game, but I still find him to be the optimal lynch right now.

[Artem]

^^ This right here is why I feel Lynx is town ^^

I've seen this kind of reasoning throughout Lynx's play and I'm reading this as an undecided townie, not an opportunistic scum.

I'm doubting Panzer's claim, obviously. However, I'm also wondering what's going to happen if Panzer flips town. I'm not 100% satisfied with the wagon on him and I'm also reluctant to let Lowell get away with lurking. (Dan's been lurking lately too, I've noticed.)

I'm debating on ending this day now or waiting until Sunday when Panzer can answer the questions directed at him. We

could

use the time until Sunday to force Lowell to drop some tells.... Just saying.

[Master Ruck]

I'm all for getting Lowell to contribute more. My vote is on panzer for much the same reason as Lynx. Lowell could be scum, but his lurking simply doesn't give us as much to work with as panzer has. Regardless of panzer's scumminess, though, I'd also like to know why charter was so certain panzer wasn't a cop or anything.

[Artem]

Lowell could be scum, but his lurking simply doesn't give us as much to work with as panzer has.

But that's the point! You won't get more content until you apply pressure. Saying "I wish Lowell contributed more" is not going to get us anywhere. Use your vote.

[tubby216]

what would you have me do lynx? everyone had already said all that needed to be said. so rather than parraot what everyone else had already siad i agreed and joined them.

[Master Ruck]

5 days until deadline. I'll go with you on this Artem, as a possibly confirmed town, but with the time left I question just how much will be accomplished with his posts being so rare. I know the votes have the intention of making him post, but my vote won't suddenly make him come online.

Unvote
Vote: Lowell

For when you next come on, Lowell, I'd like from you a summary of your thoughts on this game, but I'd like them to be as specific as possible. No being vague or diverting away from the point.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

what would you have me do lynx? everyone had already said all that needed to be said. so rather than parraot what everyone else had already siad i agreed and joined them.

The problem is that you've done it with Xdaamno, myself, and Panzer.

I don't think we need to end the day right now with 5 days left. We could use it to attain more info. On a side, I'll have limited access this weekend. I may be able to get a post in later tonight and tomorrow, but everything else is gonna be tough this weekend.

[charter]

I'm all for getting Lowell to contribute more. My vote is on panzer for much the same reason as Lynx. Lowell could be scum, but his lurking simply doesn't give us as much to work with as panzer has. Regardless of panzer's scumminess, though, I'd also like to know why charter was so certain panzer wasn't a cop or anything.

That would be like two cops in a mini which I'm assuming isn't the case here.

Also note how Panzer made no mention of his action failing because I was a hider. It's almost like he didn't have a night choice at all!

[Master Ruck]

So it's an assumption, not something that you know as you said earlier. I know this isn't much of a point, but it bugs me when people claim to be certain of something in this game when it's nothing more than speculation. Don't get me wrong, you're probably right as 2+ investigative roles would be a bit broken, but it's still something you can't actually know unless you are also the giver of roles.

[Lowell]

5 days until deadline. I'll go with you on this Artem, as a possibly confirmed town, but with the time left I question just how much will be accomplished with his posts being so rare. I know the votes have the intention of making him post, but my vote won't suddenly make him come online.

Unvote
Vote: Lowell

For when you next come on, Lowell, I'd like from you a summary of your thoughts on this game, but I'd like them to be as specific as possible. No being vague or diverting away from the point.

When you do this 5 days from deadline it looks a lot like derailment. Those are my most recent thoughts.

[Lowell]

from post 237

250- xda leads w/ 6 votes, lynch-1
254- master ruck complains about how bad he is [-, he doth protest too much]
257- master ruck says he'll keep his vote on xda "for now" [-, looks like coaching]
260- xda vote master ruck [+, good]
279- darox lays out lynx case [+, good, though flawed]
283- lynx responds
296- mr unvotes xda
302- tubby votes xda
306- artifex wants the day longer [-, avoiding hammer]
317- charter wants panzer dead instead
318- xda votes panzer
327- artem votes panzer
328- charter votes panzer
341- darox votes panzer
353- xda leads w/ 5 votes, panzer w/ 4
371- lowell accuses artem of deflection
387- artem votes xda
424- charter "bets his life" artem is town [!]
428- artem tries to link players together [-, terrible]
434- xda votes artem
464- xda lynched (lynx, dancho, panzer, lowell, tubby, artem), flips TOWN
465- afatchic NKed, townsperson
469- charter votes panzer
470- panzer votes charter
483- charter claims HIDER
485- lynx votes charter, doesn't believe claim
486- darox votes lynx
497- artem votes Lowell [-, based on links to players, bad reasoning]
514- panzer votes lynx
567- tubby votes lynx
568- charter votes lynx
571- artem lays out case against lowell
576- lynx votes darox
603- lynx leads w/ 4 votes
608- charter votes panzer
624- panzer votes charter
625- lowell calls out panzer for OMGUS and frustration over collapse of lynx wagon
628- lynx votes panzer [-, continues to set up future lowell vote]
634- charter expands panzer case [+, very thorough]
638- master ruck votes panzer
641- panzer votes lynx, "him or me"
669- tubby votes panzer
670- lowell votes panzer
694- MR unvotes, votes lowell, hopes artem joins [---, derailment like whoa]

@artem 571- there's another alternative to what you say: I'm telling the truth. You think my plan was to make up something after the fact to cover my ass, but first say "oh, wait, hold on, I'm not sure why I did that?" I assure you that if and when I make stuff up to cover my ass, you won't be able to tell.

Post 694 by

master ruck

is very very bad. This looks like textbook, almost-too-obvious derailment. Panzer is within a vote of being lynched. MR voted panzer just after the expansion of the case by charter in 634. When the wagon gained steam, he jumped onto the most obvious wagon (Lowell). Nothing really happend between 634 and 695 that should have made a difference, but he knows that he's insulated by the fact that (a) I dont' defend myself that often, and (b) artem's narrowminded pursuit of me.

FOS master ruck

In many many of his recent posts,

lynx

references/chides/admonishes/notices my lurking nature, without casting a vote. He, like ruck, looks like he's trying to set up an easy and safe vote on me later on.

FOS lynx

. He's fallen from town to scum very fast in my eyes.

The hider claim seems more believeable than the PGO claim. PGO in such a small game seems like a strange choice.