Mini 737 - Hack Poetry Mafia (Game Over)

[RedCoyote]

Yes don, I do support the case against Budja.

[TonyMontana]

Vote Count

Everyone wonders, if they made a blunder
would anyone notice?
a slip from a scum, and this shit would be done
and everyone knows this
Better stay sneaky, best not to let them catch a lie
Be tongue-in-cheeky, lest you want to be the next to die

springlullaby

(4) Plonky, Lynx, Azhrei, Jebus

Budja

(2) RedCoyote, Ice9

fhqwhgads

(1) Goatrevolt

Jebus

(1) Budja

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Ice9

prodded

Deadline in 11 days

[Lynx The Antithesis]

RC, Am I take it since you're still suspicious of FHQ that you don't buy his explantion in his latest post? He didn't address for me the points I found him suspicious for. Do you find Budja suspicious for the initial move or for his defense later?

FHQ, why did you try to shift the current focus to pursuing the lurkers. Usually lurker hunts produce little in the way of info. The only thing to do is pressure them to participate. Though Spring is a strange case cause despite the votes piling on her she still remains quiet. I think this continued lurking is suspicious cause it's obvious she's here she's just not adding anything.

Jebus, how did FHQ greatly recover in his last post. I feel like a few of your points are fairly vague. Others have asked for clarification on the Spring vote. I think it's just a pressure vote though that isn't that obvious. Who's more suspicious to you Coyote or Spolium?

[Budja]

I agree with Lynx in that Jebus's vote was probably a pressure vote.
However saying, "the reasoning should be obvious", leaves this open to interpretation which I really don't like. Could you clarify this Jebus.

[Jebus]

Post 32 - Budja jumps on wolfwagon. I like this move.

Can you be more specific? Why do you like it, exactly?

I'm a fan of random wagons being taken somewhere.

Post 35 - RedCoyote. About halfway through he declares the RVS over, something I've learned is a bad move.

Same goes for this - why would you consider such a declaration to be a "bad move"?

It's just a general pattern I've noticed. Again, it was part of the RVS so it doesn't mean much, but I find people who declare the RVS over to turn up scum more oft than not.

Post 67 - fhqwhgads: "I am however, willing to accept Budja's retraction. I just get this funny feeling that he's being the scapegoat here..."
The mention of this is very noteworthy to me.

Noteworthy in what sense?

Noteworthy in the sense of wording and how it was written. It just seemed a little too informed.

I have to say I don't really like the fhq case.
Fhq said that he considered me a scapegoat after I had stated my actions.
I think he was just trying to stop the town becoming too tunnel-visioned, not that that was a problem in this case. A few people have also at least partly accepted my explanation (e.g Spolium,Lynx). I don't see why fhq should be singled out here

What singled out fhqwhgads for me was how he said it - he thought you were being used as a scapegoat. The general connotation of the post was just off.

Can you elaborate on what you consider to be "

the general connotation of the post

"?

The general connotation of the post is how the wording makes it sound. Words are powerful, you know.

Aka, this is the same thing as the vibe you get from a post.

Additionally, perhaps you could explain why you've labeled me as likely scum? You pointed out that I overreacted, and that despite the lack of progress in butting heads with Ice my thinking was nonetheless "pro-town". What is it exactly that makes you think I'm scum?

It's not a 'likely' scum, it's a 'possibly scum'. It's just that I've felt that compared to Ice's arguements, yours have been lacking in the validity that I'd hope for. Of course, I only had time to skim over the more recent anthology-sized posts you two have had, but either way. I'll get some examples, maybe, when I get time.

The Spring vote discrepency has already been highlighted by others, but I'll third the request for an explanation as it is such a significant oversight.

As I said, it should be obvious. How do you get an active lurker back? Pressure them.

I marked spring as anti-town town because in all of the one-two games I've been in with spring, spring has lurked for the most part, and was town both times. I don't at all disregard the possibility of scum, but for now it seems consistent.

[Jebus]

I agree with Lynx in that Jebus's vote was probably a pressure vote.
However saying, "the reasoning should be obvious", leaves this open to interpretation which I really don't like. Could you clarify this Jebus.

The idea was to leave it open to interpretation, it's more potent pressure-wise that way.

Yes, though, it was a pressure-the-lurker vote.

[Jebus]

Jebus, how did FHQ greatly recover in his last post. I feel like a few of your points are fairly vague. Others have asked for clarification on the Spring vote. I think it's just a pressure vote though that isn't that obvious. Who's more suspicious to you Coyote or Spolium?

He posted something that seemed a considerably pro-town explanation for something not-so pro-town, without much fluff or bull in it. It cleared up my suspicions and hanging, unanswered questions, so it was good enough for me.

I'd say Coyote's more suspicious. I'll have to look specifically at him again, but you get it.

And as for the ambiguity - there wasn't really much to work from, I'm just trying to exaggerate things I think should be explored into so that they get noticed.

[Spolium]

Can you elaborate on what you consider to be "

the general connotation of the post

"?

The general connotation of the post is how the wording makes it sound. Words are powerful, you know.

Aka, this is the same thing as the vibe you get from a post.

Maybe I should have phrased this one more clearly.

What I meant was, with regard to your comment - "the general connotation of the post was just off" - can you describe what you mean in terms of what you think was "off", specifically?

[Jebus]

"I am however, willing to accept Budja's retraction. I just get this funny feeling that he's being the scapegoat here..."

The above is fhq's post.

Seemingly undecided opinion leaning with benefit of the doubt, coupled with the use of "funny feeling that he's being the scapegoat here..." is what does it. It just seems... off.

Mind you, I've never played with fhqwhgads before.

[RedCoyote]

RC, Am I take it since you're still suspicious of FHQ that you don't buy his explantion in his latest post? He didn't address for me the points I found him suspicious for. Do you find Budja suspicious for the initial move or for his defense later?

Well, I don't know. His explanation comes how many days after the fact? And it's just that his defense was non-intentional?

fhq isn't on the top of my list, but he's somewhere in the top 4 (of scum).

What doesn't help him is the fact that's it's almost scripted for someone to come to another players defense if the a couple of other players are on them. Maybe he was actually in Budja's corner, I don't know, but I've really liked Goat in this game so fhq may just have the unfortunate position of disagree with me about the lay of the game.

As far as Budja goes, it was and is still his inital move that left me feeling bad, coupled with his so-so participation and generally vanilla commentary ("omg spring how could you") have kept me in the lynch Budja camp.

I'm not the biggest Azhrei fan either though.

---

RedCoyote. About halfway through he declares the RVS over, something I've learned is a bad move. Other than that, good kickoff post.

I was going to ask you about this, you didn't consider Ice9's vote on Wolf to be a serious vote?

How do you get an active lurker back? Pressure them.

Do you think this will get her to talk when she's already aware that the town is upset with her activity levels?

[Ice9]

I'm back don't replace me please.

I'll catch up tonight/tomorrow (probably tomorrow) and get a good post in here.

[fhqwhgads]

FHQ, why did you try to shift the current focus to pursuing the lurkers.

Look, I wasn't generally trying to shift the focus in as much as it was starting to feel like everyone was hyper focussing on Budja. I was in no way trying to give him a free pass, I just found that some people were just floating by, not even contributing to the Budja argument and thought we should at least call them out to get their opinion.

[don_johnson]

FHQ, why did you try to shift the current focus to pursuing the lurkers.

Look, I wasn't generally trying to shift the focus in as much as it was starting to feel like everyone was hyper focussing on Budja. I was in no way trying to give him a free pass, I just found that some people were just floating by, not even contributing to the Budja argument and thought we should at least call them out to get their opinion.

fhqwhgads: who are you most suspicious of(among the active players)?

is there a particular lurker which bothers you the most?

where exactly do you stand on Budja?

[Jebus]

RedCoyote. About halfway through he declares the RVS over, something I've learned is a bad move. Other than that, good kickoff post.

I was going to ask you about this, you didn't consider Ice9's vote on Wolf to be a serious vote?

How do you get an active lurker back? Pressure them.

Do you think this will get her to talk when she's already aware that the town is upset with her activity levels?

I did not consider Ice's vote on Wolf to be serious, I would have noted it otherwise.

Having people upset with you is one thing. Being at L-1 is quite another. If she doesn't talk then, she deserves to be lynched or replaced.

[Budja]

I did not consider Ice's vote on Wolf to be serious, I would have noted it otherwise.

Glad someone shares my point of view here.

[don_johnson]

Having people upset with you is one thing. Being at L-1 is quite another. If she doesn't talk then, she deserves to be lynched or replaced.

FoS: Jebus

, for suggesting putting a lurker at L-1. even on day one, this could be a dangerous move.

[springlullaby]

Busy atm.

[Budja]

I going to interpret that post in that you are planning to post later. ^

[Goatrevolt]

Having people upset with you is one thing. Being at L-1 is quite another. If she doesn't talk then, she deserves to be lynched or replaced.

FoS: Jebus

, for suggesting putting a lurker at L-1. even on day one, this could be a dangerous move.

What's wrong with it? When is it an acceptable time to put a lurker at L-1?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

FHQ, why did you try to shift the current focus to pursuing the lurkers.

Look, I wasn't generally trying to shift the focus in as much as it was starting to feel like everyone was hyper focussing on Budja. I was in no way trying to give him a free pass, I just found that some people were just floating by, not even contributing to the Budja argument and thought we should at least call them out to get their opinion.

I felt your first post was kinda fence-sitting. You suggested that Budja might be a scapegoat and you found it curious that Goat was pushing him the hardest. It appeared like you were trying to avoid a strong response from Goat by saying that in no way did you find it scummy even though you were suggesting such a possibility(not trying to offend anyone). Though it didn't work because Goat's got his vote on you. As for the lurker part even if you weren't intending to shift the focus, it came off that way. The lurkers will be addressed via replacement in time. I find it suspicious only if the lurker continues to answer the prods, but still avoids adding anything meaningful. Then I would look into the case like Spring. I believe lurker hunts just aren't very productive.

Don, I don't know why you're worried about L-1. If anybody quick lynched spring, they'd be under strong scrutiny the next day. How do you think Spring should be dealt with if she keeps it up? Replacement?

[RedCoyote]

I did not consider Ice's vote on Wolf to be serious, I would have noted it otherwise.

Glad someone shares my point of view here.

I disagree with both of these players and would like Ice to refresh us on exactly why it was he originally voted Wolf.

---

Busy atm.

:\

---

Don, I don't know why you're worried about L-1. If anybody quick lynched spring, they'd be under strong scrutiny the next day. How do you think Spring should be dealt with if she keeps it up? Replacement?

Are you advocating spring be lynched policy-wise?

The only thing that worries me is that we have no idea what roles are out there, and I'll suggest here and now that maybe spring has something to gain through her own lynching.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Don, I don't know why you're worried about L-1. If anybody quick lynched spring, they'd be under strong scrutiny the next day. How do you think Spring should be dealt with if she keeps it up? Replacement?

Are you advocating spring be lynched policy-wise?

The only thing that worries me is that we have no idea what roles are out there, and I'll suggest here and now that maybe spring has something to gain through her own lynching.

I'm not exactly supporting a lynch with no response from her. I'm just saying putting her at L-1 doesn't frighten me in the least cause if someone were to put the hammer down before she could get a chance to respond or be replaced, then I'd be looking at them the next day. I think lynching to prove a point isn't effective. Are you implying a jester like role? I think mods wouldn't use them because it's fairly easy to get lynched, its somewhat a game breaker, it can end the game very prematurely, and its not really fun for anybody. Thats just my view on those kind of roles but utilizing caution doesn't hurt.

[fhqwhgads]

Again, I was just thinking that everyone was on Budja's case a bit harshly. Or more to the point, at that moment it didn't seem to me like a lynchable offence.

The reason I mentioned Goat and lurkers were because it was so early game, I didn't have a lot of other suspicions either. I thought a bit of pressure would do no harm. Goat jumped on me (understandable), but again, I didn't outright call him scum. I could ask why he was so defensive on such a small push, but I suppose if my comment was seen as scummy and names are being dropped, it is a 'normal' reaction.

On another note, spring really is pain at the moment. Risking the same reaction as before, I have almost no read on her, due to her refusing to add anything useful to discussion. I suppose that makes her lean on the scummy side, but again, having such a limited read makes it 45-55% chance that she's scum.

The other problem is that no one else really jumps out at me. If you're gonna push me, I have to say don_johnson's 'fear' of L-1 is a bit much. The argument why that's not necessarily a problem has been made and one has to wonder if he's just trying very hard to do the 'townie thing'.

[Spolium]

The only thing that worries me is that we have no idea what roles are out there, and I'll suggest here and now that maybe spring has something to gain through her own lynching.

Interesting observation - I hadn't considered this, and was beginning to lean a little towards a Spring vote. Are such roles common in Normal games here?

On a side note, if anyone can point me towards a rundown of likely power roles for D1 it'd be useful, as to an extent I'm not sure what to expect.

[RedCoyote]

I hadn't considered this, and was beginning to lean a little towards a Spring vote. Are such roles common in Normal games here?

Well, based on what Lynx just said maybe Jester/Fool-type roles aren't very common in MS. The reason I brought it up is because it's honestly the best reason I can come up with for spring acting this way.