Mini 733- Congratulations! You are... Mafia (Game Over)

[imaginality]

Vrei sa pleci dar nu-mã, nu-mã iei -
Nu-mã, nu-mã iei, nu-mã, nu-mã, nu-mã iei

[Glork]

I vood like to point out two tings.

1) Darox hazh pikked up four votezh on zis lazt page -- four votezh in seventeen pozhts. And on top of that, Plom has shown villingnezh to leench Darox as vell.

2) Dezh's Darox vote bothered me, and I tink I finally realizhed vy. While making a pozht moztly about Imaginality, he decidezh zat Imaginality is ze scomzh (vezzer bosing Darox or going after veek townzh). Two sub-points here.

--2a) I'm not sure how joo call it "bosing," Dezh, konsiderink Imag'zh vote vos

ze only von on Darox at ze time

. Bosing generally impliezh aktual threat to be leenched, and ontil EK/you (and now Sly) piled on, Darox vozn't in danger of leenched.

--2b) The more obviouzh kvezhtion to ask is vy joo vood pose a

very blatant falze dilemma about Imag being scum

, wagon Darox anyvay, zen korrekt yourself in a doublepozht and not move to Imag anyvay. Ze falze dilemma kombined viz the lack of vote on Imag konfuzez me. I vood like sobstantial explanation on zeese aktionz.

3) Darox, even if joo are "ztill typink," pleazhe give us vot joo have so far, even if it is jost notezh or a draft of vot joo vant to say. Since joo are ze leading kandidate vith four votezh, if joo have nothink to lose by pozhting joor thoughts.

4) Dahill and haskow also need to pozht moch more kontent for me to review.

5) If Sly kood be leenched today, I vood probably support killink him.

[Mirth]

Votecount

darox - badger -[imaginality, elvis, des, sly]
elvis - badger - [Plum, Isacc]
Sly - badger - [Darox]
Kmd - badger - [Dahill]
Isacc - badger - [Kmd]
PJ - badger - [Glork]

Not Voting - mushroom - [Caf, cow]

Cups of Lemonade Bought: 2

Deadline reminder:

Monday, Feb 16, 11:59 PM EST

[hasdgfas]

Or you and Sly could be scum together.

I am not scum and I would think an investigation on me might help ease some minds, if anyone were able to do such.

----------------------------

Considering the minute amount of time left after a day wasted on trying to lynch me, I am fine with lynching Darox. He has contributed nothing and has ignored questions that were bolded and pointed out to him.

I would rather lynch Des because I don't buy his PR defense. Either he or his predecessor are/were lying but you guys seem willing to let him off the hook for it, so be it.

unvote

vote:Darox

what about his PR defense don't you buy, and why?

[Kmd4390]

Deadline is coming up. It's Darox or EK.

Vote Darox

He hasn't really done much of anything this game.

[Kmd4390]

Oops. Forgot to

Unvote, Vote Darox

.

Although Mirth doesn't technically require unvotes. (I found that out the hard way in Mayo.)

[caf19]

Darox would be a preferred lynch for me right now, but I'd like to see that promised post of his first before making any final decisions. Also, I don't really want to vote without reaching my quota of lemonade sales. However, with deadline coming up we do need to get a lynch sorted, and I am town, so I may as well actually do something helpful to the town even if it doesn't benefit me specifically. So, I will put a vote on before the deadline hits if needed.

[SlySly]

what about his PR defense don't you buy, and why?

I don't buy that his ability to post in english is different than his predecessor due to a misunderstanding of the role PM. I think one of the two, most likely Des, is lying.

[Plum]

Mirth doesn't technically require unvotes. (I found that out the hard way in Mayo.)

Good times, those .

Darox, even if joo are "ztill typink," pleazhe give us vot joo have so far, even if it is jost notezh or a draft of vot joo vant to say. Since joo are ze leading kandidate vith four votezh, if joo have nothink to lose by pozhting joor thoughts.

This, please. I understand you're still working on this promised post, but deadline approacheth and if you do not want to be lynched (which you don't) it's in your best interest to tell us stuff ASAP, and make a counter-case, if you care to.

[elvis_knits]

I think Darox is the play today. His participation has been pathetic. The fact that he has promised things and not come through really makes me suspicious. Combined with the bandwagon vote on KMD with no explanation, he remains my choice.

[SlySly]

Combined with the bandwagon vote on KMD with no explanation, he remains my choice.

Which vote of Darox's do you consider a bandwagon vote?

[SlySly]

mod: I think we are starting to make some progress, would it be possible to get a one week extension on the deadline?

[destructor]

--2a) I'm not sure how joo call it "bosing," Dezh, konsiderink Imag'zh vote vos

ze only von on Darox at ze time

. Bosing generally impliezh aktual threat to be leenched, and ontil EK/you (and now Sly) piled on, Darox vozn't in danger of leenched.

Distancing, then.

Remember that my vote was on Darox before I switched to Sly to test his claim.

--2b) The more obviouzh kvezhtion to ask is vy joo vood pose a

very blatant falze dilemma about Imag being scum

, wagon Darox anyvay, zen korrekt yourself in a doublepozht and not move to Imag anyvay. Ze falze dilemma kombined viz the lack of vote on Imag konfuzez me. I vood like sobstantial explanation on zeese aktionz.

Pretty minor. Darox is a better lynch because he's been more anti-town. I have more of a gut on Imaginality. I don't get good vibes from his explanation for the FOS on caf. Note that my problem isn't his "reason" but how he eventually explained it. (I haven't read his latest post. But initial feelings tend to be most accurate for me. Eloquent scum can often talk their way around a lot of things.)

There's also the less obvious but totally legitimate motivation for me to post something like that for reaction's sake, which should not be a strech for you to believe.

It should also be obvious that my suspicious of Darox and imaginality have their own roots. I find two players suspcious, so I speculate about how they might be acting as part of a team and how viable this is. Getting other members of the town's opinion on this only helps.

I'm still finding your beef with me very hard to swallow, Glork.

5) If Sly kood be leenched today, I vood probably support killink him.

I think I've actually got a town tell on Sly.

Mod:

Argh! It's a snake!

Plum, feel free to refer to me with whichever pronoun you like. It's all good.

[Darox]

Right. Let's go through everybody in order, and see what they've done. Then I can get a grip on this game.

#1: Caf, the lemonade guy

Starts off with a string of posts about his lemonade and the peddling thereof. Too many options to really call this anything but a null tell, and he doesn't use this as a way to escape posting. His insistence that the lemonade needs to be bought

now

is a bit off putting, but not greatly. He makes some good points against sly. He pressures Coheed for lurking.
Mentions not wanting to end the day until lemonade sales improve, and that he thinks Sly is not lynchproof, which may show up later.
Talking about the Zaizer/Des German issue, he seems to overlook the obvious possibility that Zaizer was being overcautious in relation to any mod message about needing to post in german whereas Des was more willing to try and stretch the limits by posting predominately in english.
Reiterates some of the stuff I say about Isacc's modkill play.
Shortly afterwards, he seems sure that he's going to die overnight

(Why?)

and starts presenting some opinions against a variety of players. One of the stranger opinions is the first one that hascow should be looked into because hascow is focusing on Sly and that this would allow him to "Focus on whoever he wanted tomorrow", which struck me as flawed, as there is no reason why you should insist that somebody should be locked onto a specific selection of people rather than being able to comment on everyone. Oh, and he mentions his previous suspicion of Coheed, who hascow replaced, which is pretty weak.
Then we get an opinion on Imaginality and his voting of Sly. I can't really comment on this yet, so it'll have to wait till we do imaginality, but the bussing comment again looks weak.
Rounding off the series of opinions is about Mephisto. He talks about how Old Scratch was late on the wagon

(Why is this noteworthy?)

and also that Abbadon seemingly came out of nowhere having not stated many serious opinions that Sly was acting scummy

(One would think placing a vote is a pretty good way of saying 'Yep, I think this guy is scummy")

and that this abrupt and previously undocumented suspicion smacks of a bussing attempt, an accusation that would hold more weight if the vote in question was not explained.
In the aftermath of this, caf responds to hascow who has pretty soundly beaten up the weak accusations leveled at him by clarifying that he didn't mean focusing on one person was scummy, and goes on to say that hascow deflected the question with his reply.

(What? How is saying "Sly is the scummiest person by far, to the extent he outshadows the rest of the game" not an explicit and full answer to the question "Who do you find suspicious?")

Brings up a legit point against Baal that he hasn't posted much about his suspicions (or lack thereof) on players besides Kmd and Sly.
Makes a strange response to Hascow's naming of people he finds suspicious, saying he is interested in seeing where hascow will take those suspicions.

(Why so interested in hascow?)

The rest of his posts are talking about lemonade/gnomes and scolding Hades for being evasive.

Overall: The scummiest thing I see here is the thing with hascow about who hascow suspects and cafs various responses to this. Wary of Caf for now.

#2: Hascow, the guy I was just talking about. Awesome.

Coheed contributes a whole lot of nothing, so hascow is starting from pretty much a blank slate here. Starts with a rundown of posts he thought were noteworthy, and a list of people he feels the need to comment on. He votes for Isacc here, which is important because Isacc blows up at this point and all sorts of other controversy stems from it. He defends himself pretty well against Isacc's knee jerk attack.
A short while later, it's brought up again, and he pretty much stomps all over the people protesting his suspicion of Isacc. Several times.
Mentions some suspicions of Sly , votes destructor for the German thing.
Slaps a silent vote down on Sly (L-2) which is kind of disconcerting considering his previously stated suspicions consisted of a couple of offhand comments and a HoS. He then goes on to treat Sly as public enemy #1, which makes me feel like he's missed a few steps.
Then we get to the part with caf, where as I said before, hascow pretty much trashes caf's weak jabs at him.
Some trashing of Isacc and his Modkill plan occurs, and refutes EK's bizarre accusation of hascow having joined in on Isacc's Modkill plan.

Diagnosis: Awesome. Totally rad to the max. Looking pretty good so far.

#3: Dahill, professional Alien hunter

Starts off with the whole alien paranoia deal, votes Diablo for his delayed response to the Gnome question, and doesn't trust the lemonade.
Finally we get to the first real issue, Kmd and his random vote, specifically, the disclaimed attached to said vote. It's hardly damning evidence against kmd, but he's got a point here, and he deals with the resulting flak well.
Disagrees with the anti foreigner stance of Sly, agrees with Plums vote based on said anti foreigner stance, and throws down his own vote. He drops Kmd pretty abruptly, but considering what he had on Kmd this isn't really a big shock.
Comments on the Isacc explosion in light of hascow's vote, and sticks him on a suspicion list under Kmd.
Follows cow on abusing Sly for meta defense and Sly's general abrasive nature.
Wants a Sly claim and doesn't see how people were coming to conclusions about no lynches and unlynchable and etc, which is reasonable considering it was basically baseless speculation.
Jabs Kmd for his sudden shift on Sly and for his assumptions about how Sly's role works, with good reason.
Disagrees with the 'scumslip' deal.

(I'll deal with this more when I reach EK/Imaginality)

Suspicion list as of Sly's question equals Kmd/EK/Beelzebub, and pushes Kmd to hammer in case of a Supersaint eventuality.
That's about it for notable dahill contributions.

Summary: Could have more content, but what's actually there looks pretty solid to me.

#4: Lucifer

He's pretty cool. Yeah.

Conclusion: Pretty cool indeed.

#5: elvis_knits, famous for puppies and scumslips

Shanks the mod by posting before the rules are up.
Mentions searching for something, gives nothing more on it. Distrusts lemonade.
Slaps a vote down on Coheed for not attempting to scumhunt, which seems pretty hypocritical given EK's current contributions.
EK discovers the musical talents of the Numa Numa guy.
Does make a good point when questioning Sly's accusation of Kmd being overdefensive.
"Sly's Foreign Language Stance is scummy" agreement, and attacks sly some more for his "Trying to start conversation" deal.
Calls Old Nick scum for an unexplained vote on Kmd

(Uh... What?)

and then links Baphomet and Sly together in a pretty bizzare and unexplained way.

(No really, what?)

Defends Isacc against Hascow, saying hascow singled out Isacc when several people were defending Kmd. It seems odd, since Hascow had already clarified his point when Isacc first exploded.
Makes good points about the 'unlynchable' deal as well as Sly's changing story. Mirrors the general consensus that Isacc's modkill plan is dumb, but psuedo-defends him stating he's done it before.
And then, the 'scumslip' deal. It starts with something pretty weak, taking Imaginalitys comments on Sly not grouping himself with the 'townies' and declaring it to be a scum slip. Strangely, the biggest complaint to this is raised by Plum who manages to miss the mark completely, attacking EK for changing the subject after Sly explained why he used the phrasing he did. This completely falls through though, because Sly explained it before EK ever called it a scum slip. Isacc also tries to push this "changed the subject" angle. It's very bizarre and really, out of all the people involved in the argument over the Scumslip thing, EK comes out looking the best despite not really showing anything of substance against Sly.
After Sly fails at being lynched, she announces her runnerup suspects to be Dagon, for his 'weird bandwagon vote' on Kmd

(What?)

and Hascow, for supporting Isacc's modkill plan.

(What?)

As above, hascow trashes this ridiculous accusation and EK asserts that there is something wrong with hascow voting destruct while thinking Isacc's modkill plan is bad, and votes him.
Then she posts a really hurtful accusation that the Antichrist was not going to deliver on his promise, and that's EK all wrapped up.

Synopsis: EK has been acting pretty strangely, and there is several things that strike me as being off. A bit suspicious of her, but mostly confused.

#6: Glorken, and several bottles of alcoholic potatoes.

Those poor V's. So used to easy times, they have been mercilessly overworked by Glorken.
Apparently he cannot vote for players in the game. Distrusts lemonade without knowing cafs alignment, and calls Imaginality's Numa 'boolsheet'.
Calls Chernobog Obvscum, no reasons.
Adds Destructor to the Obvscum list, again no reasons.
Adds Sly to the list of people he would like to see lynched. No reasons given.
Demotes Destructor from Obvscum to 'Maybe just Stupid'.
Suggests that scum would be more likely to buy lemonade because they would know Caf is pro town, which is strange.

(Already covered this)

Hilarious condom animals ensue.
Blam! A real post from Glork flies onto the page after an 11 day hiatus. Calls EK town for questioning the way people assumed Sly's unlynchable status.
He then proceeds to burn Destruct for his German posts. The biggest problem here though is his theory involves Zaizer faking a restriction, Destructor coming in without noticing and posting in English, then having to make something up to explain the English posts. This falls apart though because the first 2 posts Destructor made were in German.
He also calls Isacc town for his Modkill plan, and Plum suspicious for attacking said modkill plan.
Also calls Dahill town. And Kmd. Reasons are scarce.
Turns out Destructor went Godzilla on Glorken's faked PR theory, and he admits as such. He keeps destructor at the top of his supicions though, shifting the reasoning to destructor's asking Glorken to claim and calling Glorken useless because of his lack of vote.
Responds to Isacc and Plum yelling at him for using 'Obvtown' to describe Kmd and EK. His full response is good and has so far gone untouched by either Isacc or Plum.
Finally, he posts another good post about the Prince of Darkness wagon, and specifically Destructor's vote on it. He sums up exactly my thoughts on Destructors apparent train of thought.

Final Thoughts: Although to start with his posting was seriously lacking, he's picked up the ball.

--

So, this is only 6/12.

Since the deadline is soon

(Unless the request for a deadline extension is accepted, which I would like to

second

, by the way)

I have decided to post this half prematurely.

If I get the chance I'll post up the other half and combine the two to decide who is most suspicious.

Unvote

[Glork]

--2b) The more obviouzh kvezhtion to ask is vy joo vood pose a

very blatant falze dilemma about Imag being scum

, wagon Darox anyvay, zen korrekt yourself in a doublepozht and not move to Imag anyvay. Ze falze dilemma kombined viz the lack of vote on Imag konfuzez me. I vood like sobstantial explanation on zeese aktionz.

Pretty minor. Darox is a better lynch because he's been more anti-town. I have more of a gut on Imaginality. I don't get good vibes from his explanation for the FOS on caf. Note that my problem isn't his "reason" but how he eventually explained it. (I haven't read his latest post. But initial feelings tend to be most accurate for me. Eloquent scum can often talk their way around a lot of things.)

There's also the less obvious but totally legitimate motivation for me to post something like that for reaction's sake, which should not be a strech for you to believe.

It should also be obvious that my suspicious of Darox and imaginality have their own roots. I find two players suspcious, so I speculate about how they might be acting as part of a team and how viable this is. Getting other members of the town's opinion on this only helps.

I'm still finding your beef with me very hard to swallow, Glork.

I still don't onerzhtand ze falzh dilemma. First of oll, ze falzh dilemma izh scomzhee in and of itself. I shood not have to explain vy. Sekondly, I don't onderstand vy joo vood kvezhtion joor sospizhons of ze stronger, "more anti-town" Darox and not Imag.

[dahill1]

I think Darox is the play today. His participation has been pathetic. The fact that he has promised things and not come through really makes me suspicious. Combined with the bandwagon vote on KMD with no explanation, he remains my choice.

what are your thoughts on him now that he's completed the review?

2nd the deadline extension

[Mirth]

Isaac has been prodded.

As for extending the deadline, I'll think about it. Will let y'all know tonight.

[Kmd4390]

I'd agree with an extension. Darox is actually starting to be helpful.

[destructor]

Elvis even said she'd played in games where voteless players were lynched on account of them being a problem for the town.

Zis is true, bot she obviouzhly doezhn't believe zat it is unekvivikolly right to leench voteless playerzh, vich is vot you are soggezhting. Vot EK said and vot joo vont to do are

kompletely, 100% different

. "Vait and zee" is ze right vay to approach it. Leenching people in ze manner joo soggezht is jost terrible.

"Wait and see" was what I said. I didn't vote you, I didn't say, "let's lynch Glork". I said you, as a voteless player, are a policy lynch one day before lylo. I asked for a claim because that was all I could see that would change that. All of this was easier for me to say because you didn't look very town either. I wanted the idea out there now, so it wouldn't be a scramble later in the game.

So far, no one, including yourself, has provided a compelling argument against my suggestion, which is on purely theoretical grounds, and I have asked for feedback on it. Most of the responses seem to be based on preferences as opposed to real probabilities.

So, basically, your argument here has always been that I'm blindly pushing for your lynch without considering context, which isn't true at all. My posts on the topic make this implicit. That you're still asserting this when I've explained myself a number of times is scummy. Bascially the bolded part:

You don't look or feel like town, and that feeling won't change until you make a decent case on someone. What you've got on me basically amounts to OMGUS and is obviously a result of you either not reading what I've said carefully enough or

ignoring parts of it altogether

.

Right when I first started bringing this up I specifically said that you'd be useless unless you scum-hunted, but you'd hardly been doing any.

In my defenzh, I vos off-site for nearly a veek vith jozh enough time to pozht zis in SPQR and zis in zis game. I didn't pozht between Jan 27 and Feb 05 ozervize. So yezh, I didn't pozht moch, but it haz nothink to do vith alignment.

I didn't find the posts you had made especially pro-town. It wasn't an issue of frequency. You had posted a fair amount by that stage.

I still don't onerzhtand ze falzh dilemma. First of oll, ze falzh dilemma izh scomzhee in and of itself. I shood not have to explain vy. Sekondly, I don't onderstand vy joo vood kvezhtion joor sospizhons of ze stronger, "more anti-town" Darox and not Imag.

Condorcet

Vote: Darox

, imaginality, Glork, {SlySly, hasdgfas}

I find two players suspcious, so I speculate about how they might be acting as part of a team and how viable this is. Getting other members of the town's opinion on this only helps.

Re: Me "questioning" the more anti-town Darox. Bussing is a possibility. Given that I'm suspicious of both players, the next most likely possibility I consider is that imaginaity is scum who's voting for Darox-town. Im-town/Darox-scum is also possible, but at the time, I wasn't feeling good about Imaginality not responding to my posts and saw his vote on Darox instead as unusual.

Darox is a good lynch. His play resembles that of scum more than town. I hate long Day 1's. They're a liability to the town and basically not fun. If anyone doubts this, see Weasel Mafia. 30 pages is enough. The day's been productive. I'm a fan of moving on.

[destructor]

Darox is actually starting to be helpful.

*sigh*

Guys, let's not forget these:

I still don't see how you can be calling Plum scummier than Darox given what they've been posting. Darox has been lurky and opportunistic. Plum has been in depth and active. To only give Darox "lip service" without doing anything to ensure that your "uneasy" feeling is resolved is plainly suspicious.

I shoud add that it's "suspcious regardless of Darox's alignment." I fully expect pro-town players to pursue their leads and not at all to leave an "uneasy" feeling at nothing more than a mention, which is exactly what Glork did until I bought it up.

I actually wanted to hear thoughts on this.

What's everyone's take on this:

Starts from 167, after dahill pointed out the weak reasoning for his FOS on caf. He says that the "death cult" wasn't his main reason. He goes on to dissect one of caf's posts and say that his issues with that were the real reasons for his FOS, but why didn't he state those in the first place? Look at the way he over-analyses the post, commenting on parts of it that have no relevance to his actual argument. It makes the whole thing look like a big backtrack done on the fly.

And the rest of what I posted on him from that post?

[Kmd4390]

Des, do you not realize that policy lynching Glork effectively does the same as keeping him alive if he is town?

[dahill1]

Des, do you not realize that policy lynching Glork effectively does the same as keeping him alive if he is town?

how'd you come to that conclusion?
also, do you think Darox is town now y/n?

[Kmd4390]

Because if we keep him alive, the game ends a day earlier. If we lynch him, we lose that day anyway.

And I'm not calling Darox town yet. But I'll admit I'm starting to second guess myself after that last post. Reminds me of one Pads made in Mini 677 as town. Pads was at L-1 in that game and gave us a post like Darox's. He escaped the lynch and actually ended up NK'd that night.

[dahill1]

Because if we keep him alive, the game ends a day earlier. If we lynch him, we lose that day anyway.

And I'm not calling Darox town yet. But I'll admit I'm starting to second guess myself after that last post. Reminds me of one Pads made in Mini 677 as town. Pads was at L-1 in that game and gave us a post like Darox's. He escaped the lynch and actually ended up NK'd that night.

so because he posted content you are starting to second guess yourself?

[Kmd4390]

I was mostly voting him for being lurky and unhelpful, so yes.