Open 100 - F + E x 2 + TOG OVER! before 712

[Haschel Cedricson]

Right. Sorry about the food poisoning.

My number one suspect right now is actually Seraphim. Rereading I found quite a few things I didn't like:

After a quick reread of the game, I seems to me that I don't like Pops. At all. More in-depth reread to follow, but for now, his entire voting/revoting thing + the entire Mason discussion reeks of scum. I won't put my vote down until my second reread is complete, however.

Fair enough. Hopefully you'll elaborate after the more in-depth reread...

If Budja wasn't getting replaced, I would definitely change my vote to him. His call for a cease-fire seems rather scummy to me. I also just don't like the feel of his posts in general. I guess we'll wait to see what his replacement says, but...

Pops is still probably the lynch for the day, though. His entire mason-hunt reeks, along with his constant revoting really bugs me.

There are a few things wrong with this. First of all, if you think Budja is scummy, then you vote him! Replacing out of a game doesn't give your successor a free pass! Second of all, assume that Budja did not get replaced. Seraphim's reasons for suspecting Budja are calling for a cease-fire and not liking "the feel of his posts in general." I personally think the case on Pops was more compelling and don't understand why Seraphim would choose Budja over Pops. Nevertheless, this quote amounts to Seraphim saying "Here is my number one choice, but the lynch for the day is probably my number two choice!" Not only that, but he doesn't even vote for his number two choice! All we were intended to remember from this post was that Seraphim was suspicious of Budja and Pops, but after rereading, Seraphim made no move here to bring about a lynch of either of his two suspects!

I've counted the votes.

Vote: Pops

This puts you at L-1. I have stated a few times why I find you scummy. Would you like to claim?

This post didn't come until about a day after Seraphim posted his suspicions. In the meantime, Wall-E, Pops, and to a lesser extent, Tenchi expressed a desire to put more pressure on Budja/Budja's replacement. How does Seraphim respond to the early formation of a possible bandwagon on his number one suspect?

By voting for his number two suspect.

Combined with the fact that neither Budja or StrangerCoug acknowledged Seraphim once, my personal opinion is that Seraphim and Budja/SC/Blakadder are likely a mafia/werewolf pair.

Vote: Seraphim

In other news, Tenchi and Wall-E's failure to post a summary has been noted.

vote count

tenchi (3): wall-e, popsofctown, hp [leaves]
wall-e (2): blakadder, seraphim
haschel cedricson (1): tenchi
seraphim (1): jenethron

not voting: everyone else

with 9 alive it is 5 to lynch

[Haschel Cedricson]

EBWOP: Forgot this one.

Vote: Wall-E

This argument...arguments like this often kill games like this. However, I am getting more town vibes from StrangerCoug. Also, I had been getting scum vibes from Wall-E even before Day 2. I'm going to do a re-read to see if the facts confirm my gut instinct at the moment.

Funny that these scum vibes on Wall-E were never mentioned before Day 2. In fact, this suspicion on Wall-E didn't happen until AFTER StrangerCoug started attacking Wall-E on Day 2.

[popsofctown]

Wall-E, what would you think about a consensus lynch on Seraphim? His case is very good.

[hp [leaves]]

I'm back and have done my read.

My vote on Tenchi stays still.

[Seraphim]

Yeah, sure, feel free to kill me.

Mod: I'm going to request replacement

I'm promising myself that this is the last game I'm replacing out of...

[Wall-E]

What the eff.

Hopefully you aren't replacing out because your butt hurts.

My vote stays on Tenchi barring something really stellar popping in.

[Wall-E]

Confirm vote: Tenchi

wake me up if something happens

[ThAdmiral]

HowardRoark replaces Seraphim

[ThAdmiral]

Will extend deadline a bit if HowardRoark asks me to

[HowardRoark]

@ThAdmiral: No need to extend for me at this time.

Howdy, y'all! I did a read through after requesting to replace, but before I was accepted. I will do one more read through before I post my thoughts. Let me assure you, I will not be an inactive player.

Not sure if

Seraphim[/b] had a ballot cast or not, so . . .

unvote

. . . until re-read is complete.

[ThAdmiral]

I like this guy already!

[Tenchi]

OMG NO WAIT MOD ARGH!

Some issues and notes (from my notes):

+ SOVELISS
--- 73, 74, 75: Soveliss argues that knowing the method of killing is irrelevant.

Soveliss responds. He marks TownDoc's alt problem as irrelevant. He also notes that HP's question is more scummy. However, he also notes (which I strongly disagree with) that the method of killing is irrelevant. Zazie challenges Soveliss on why in this game that "a kill is a kill".

Soveliss notes that a town-player should not ask the way of killing since it doesn't matter for them (which I disagree again).

--- 76, 77 & 78: Soveliss votes on Townie for horrible reason despite discussion that it is a null-tell

TownPops says TownHPs question is a null-tell. Soveliss disagrees and says "its all we have to go on right now". Seraphim agrees with TownPops.

--- 103: Soveliss claims that I wanted to start a bandwagon on TownHP (totally untrue, I wanted TOwnHP to be visible in the thread). A false reason to give me 4/7 votes neded to lynch me.

Soveliss gives me my 4/7 vote. He claims I tried to start a bandwagon against TownHP labeling TownHP as an "easy target".

--- He also mentions that TownHP was an "easy target".

Hmmmm...

--- Late jump on TownPops wagon with second-hand reasons.

--- Evasiveness in 171, 173-175, 186

173-175: Soveliss answers Zazie's question (on 169). TownDoc explains that Soveliss shouldn't think of "what town shouldn't/wouldn't do" but they should think in terms of what "scum would do". Zazie notes that Soveliss didn't answer the question properly.

...

Soveliss finally answers Zazie's question. Very conservatively in fact: "Many reasons a scum might say that.

Maybe he is trying to see how Tenchi would react to it. "

Odd he says "many reasons" but can only give one example.

--- Posting something oddly out of context?

I think it would be best to drop the mason thing as trying to build a case on someone using this is pointless.

I mean was he addressing my case on Wall-E? I thought I was the guy chasing Wall-E for the mason-thing? And now that we have discussed that talking about masonry is scummy, then should we not pursue hints of people sneaking in something about it?

==============================

+ ZAZIER

--- Her random vote (on a Townie) that became a "real vote" .

She addresses BH's question on 94 saying her vote was initially a random vote but became a serious vote when she reread the thread. (I still feel she should have announced this earlier.)

--- Her failure to check my answer to her question in 171. It makes me question whether she really cares to getting answers or she just cares to be active enough by asking questions.

I should have linked to the timeline on post 129 for my suspicions on HP. Now I wonder if Zazie actually checks my answer.) I mention again that I'd vote for either TownPops or Soveliss and Peter is at 3rd place.

I look at 191 and she remembered to reask TownPops and Budja her questions. Hmmm...

===============================

+ BUDJA

--- The Tenchi-Budja love-affair creeps me out. I swear.


===============================

+ WALL-E

--- Strawmanning my observation on him (Wall-E discussing the M-word, after it has been a strong argument that discussing Masonry at D1 is anti-town). Wal-E then asks me:

...when he discussed the M-Word after he said that he’d drop it.

(The issue was discussing masonry even after it was discussed that it was anti-town. It smelt like scum wanting to bring back mason-talk to/with other scum. His question above, attempts to weaken this point by adding the phrase

after I said I'd drop it

. The point is, he said it when he was fully aware that he shouldn't)

--- "Eat" word choice (as opposed to "kill") on 279.

--- TownDoc accuses Wall-E of fishing on 280 (although frankly I dunno how and why. Can a townie reread for this for me?)

+ SEKINJ

--- 265: Confusing reason to vote TownPops(?)

SekinJ votes for TownPops. He notes: “Pops had me pretty convinced of his scummitude until just recently. However, I think maybe he changed under the pressure, so he is still my best suspect for today.”

Changed better or for worse? If for the better, then why vote for him? If for worse, why use “however”?

+ TOWNHP HAD A LOT OF STUFF THAT DIDNT MAKE SENSE BUT HE WAS
DAMN TOWN ARGH. (e.g. 269)

BIG NOTE: My suspicions do not include the lurker factor. I feel that some scum have been effectively lurking throughout the game, giving limited opinions and just agreeing on stuff as opposed to contributing much. I don't have much time for this game so if you are a Townie, I suggest you do that.

[Tenchi]

I haven't read much of D2 after my comp exploded.

My voting opinion:

I will vote for either Soveliss/HP (see above) or Pops/Blueheaven (because BH was somehow invisible in my whole review which was REALLY odd and the parking recommendation of Pops)

If needed to get a lynch, I will vote for Wall-E. I'm sure that if I go, town will lose another member. Wall-E has the most votes right now and I'll bandwagon if I have to to prevent my own lynch. Not to mention my point above on the strawmanning thing.

VOTE: Soveliss/HP

[Tenchi]

Mod: How many days till the deadline?

Will be back tomorrow. That post thingy took me a while. :\

[Tenchi]

The way Tenchi discusses the NK borders on confession

I don't think my IQ allows me to do that. (Read: I'm not completely stupid and hopeless.) I just posted an observation. The motivation behind the NK actually tells us the priorities of the said group as scum.

One of the strongest newbie scum-tells has always been commentary on NKs. There's something about the psychology of the game that typically prompts people to comment on their own handiwork. It's like that kid who fingerpaints a picture and isn't sure if it's good, so he stands near it loudly commenting on it to see who agrees or disagrees with his words. It doesn't matter much what he says, good or bad, about the painting, it's more the fact that he's commenting in the first place...

I elaborated on it because you asked me to. I didn't look for impressions on what my statement would say but the fact that, come that NK motivations would be part of the discussion to find who is who is scum, then I have something to say about it.

Motivations and observations on NKs bears more weight in this game as compared to other games, simply because we do know that two scum groups exist.

I'm having a hard time deciding if it's ethical to say, "I agree to a modkill only if it kills scum."

Initially me too. But I think that us/we Townies deserve a break from what just happened D1.

Wall-E. I know you don't want to do this but can you state in one post what questions you have for Seraphim

(I don't want Seraphim to have any excuse as to not addressing your questions. Seraphim is oddly not on my noteslist much just because he doesn't say much too.)

I LOVE JENETHRON'S CASE AGAINST SERAPHIM. Notes also Wall-E's relationship(?) with Seraphim

POPS REALLY DIFFERENT FROM D1. I SWEAR.

Mod: Request deadline modkill of Tenchi be the lynch for the day

Unfair.

Last/worst-case scenario.

Not even.

============================

I also want to add that Budja/SC has been consistent with the "love" they are giving me.

============================

I am reconsidering a Seraphim vote but I want Seraphim to answer first Wall-E's questions.

Yeah, sure, feel free to kill me.

Mod: I'm going to request replacement

I'm promising myself that this is the last game I'm replacing out of...

ARGH WTH???

BUT THIS TELLS ME TWO THINGS:

1. By nature, Seraphim is against himself replacing out. He'd not want to if he'd not have to.
2. I think something bad happened to Seraphim. Like his head exploding because of the latest two cases on him.

His request for replacement (promise for "his last game he's replacing out of") seems more like a strategic necessity rather than some real-life conflict/emergency.

[Tenchi]

MY NOTE ON newHP:

newHP has been consistent with his TownHP persona. Just agreeing with stuff and contributing nothing new to the table. Very conservative with his opinions.

newHP: Where is your big post?

[Wall-E]

Tenchi: Just to touch on some of the things you've spoken about:

The "strawman": I think you're misunderstanding the series of events. All I can do is prompt you to read that segment of the thread again bearing in mind that I did not want to discuss masonry (as you've pointed out) but still wanted to keep pops alive (as I've quoted previously).

Just because everyone says doing something is strictly scummy doesn't always make it true.

On the other issues: Before doing it myself, the word choice issue might have been something that I, too, would latch onto.

I agree with Seraphim that SC is giving off town vibes. My question for him now is this: Why does one of me/SC necessarily have to be scum? If I die and flip town, is SC going to be suspect to you?

Seraphim: What about Budja were you suspicious of? I can't remember if I was suspicious of him or not before his replacement, but something SC said recently made me wonder about Budja.

Well you are doing a good job at attracting suspicion so far.

Don't claim you seem scummy because you always do. That holds no water. Defend yourself properly.

FOS Tenchi

However Soveliss does also seem scummy. First he follow-votes HP now it seems he is follow-voting Tenchi.

Confirm vote Soveliss

I see some strong interaction between you two as well, and now you take SC's side in an argument, fallaciously implying that if one of us is wrong that makes the person scum necessarily. Can you comment on that?

[HowardRoark]

vote

Soveliss

hp [leaves]

As far as HP's question about the killings. It doesn't mark him more town. If anything it makes him more scummy. As town it is our task to lynch those that are killing so it makes no difference if its a mafia kill or wolf kill. A kill is a kill.

For a town player the way of killing shouldn't matter. In this game we know all the roles and the towns task is finding those who are killing.

what would town find useful from knowing this?

This was the only argument made against

hp [leaves]

. This pursuit was dropped once many players moved onto

Tenchi

. . . and a vote followed with this comment

Tenchi's vote on HP comes off strange to me. Seems he is trying to park his vote on the easiest target he can find. HP has been the prime discussion thus far and was a easy target.

Nothing like hitting the "easiest target" while shaming others for doing so.

Soveliss

's second post after those is the switch to

popsofctown

is made as the group moves to discussing

popsofctown

over

Tenchi

. (Opportunistic again.) Then to seal the deal . . .

It looks likely i'll be the days lynch, so i think i'll do the best i can and try to flag some scum before i go down. Please, hopefully, wait until the deadline or close so i can reread and analyze as much as i can, try to find some suspicious people. Remember folks, even if i were 100% scum, there would still be benefit to looking around town before making the lynch, because we can flag people that are suspicious so opposing scum factions can nightkill eachother.

These kind of posts really bother me. When I see them they just scream 'scum in danger' to me.

I disagree with the analysis.

(

hp [leaves]

replaces)

My suspicion of SC is mostly caused by Budja's Day 1 posts. And voting Wall-e when he said tenchi was mafia.

Vote: StrangerCoug

Tenchi seems scummy at most at the moment

Interesting . . . since the vote is on

StrangerCoug

.

T -> Tenchi
S -> SC
W -> Wall-E
| -> The middle

SCUMMING CHART

OBVSCUM---------S--------------T----|--W----------------------OBVTOWN

*double take* What about your previous statement?

Unvote, vote Tenchi

Well, at least now things are aligned. Care to explain the previous dissidence?

[hp [leaves]]

Aargh, I had forgotten that one.

Post 19: Wall-e comments on my post and tells its scummy
Post 34: Tenchi thinks it's townier
Post 35: BH agrees
Post 36: pops thinks it's a null tell
...
Post 67: pops votes a lurker to "even out activity"
Post 73: Soveliss posts a irrelevant comment about my question.
Post 78: Seraphim overreacts about the votes and discussion on me.
Post 86: tenchi votes for me as I wasn't posting
Post 91: pops votes tenchi as he was causing confusion
Post 92: tenchi keeps his mouth shut
Post 98: tenchi's post of misinterpretation of doc's comments
Post 104: tenchi appeals to emotion and voteshitfts and OMGUS
Post 119: Paranoia and appeal to emotion one more time.
Post 124: Tenchi shuts his mouth again.

Aah, it is too much for me. Will rest a bit and then continue.

[Tenchi]

The "strawman": I think you're misunderstanding the series of events. All I can do is prompt you to read that segment of the thread again bearing in mind that I did not want to discuss masonry (as you've pointed out) but still wanted to keep pops alive (as I've quoted previously).

I stand corrected. I forgot the D2 discussion regarding your attempt to clear TownPops as you were thinking he was a mason.

================================

HP/Soveliss: You have to do better than that.

Either you:

1. Just repeat what the person has already posted. (Which is pretty much known to everyone like "Tenchi thinks it's townier ").

2. Say an opinion and don't give reasons why you think so (e.g. "Post 104: tenchi appeals to emotion and voteshitfts and OMGUS "

3. LIE AND MISREPRESENT PEOPLE. LIKE ME.

WHERE IN 92 DID I "KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT"???

AND WHEN DID MY 104 BECOME OMGUS? DID YOU EVEN SEE MY REASONS???

And you call my "birthday reaction" "paranoia"?

Stop lying and spreading bad propaganda.

[Tenchi]

Addition to the HP/SOVELISS case:

You have also effectively posted in the last five days while being conservative about your "big post" and letting it slide. I had to vote for you and remind you about it.

You have almost effectively jumped on my wagon as the third out of fifth (3/5) vote. You have used second hand reasons for your vote.

Further, you have failed to address D1 concerns regarding your predecessor, especially that your predecessor was an early star/suspect but apparently, somehow a wagon or case seems to be... just not there(?).

FINALLY.

I reread all your posts in this game (it's not that hard actually). The gap between TownHP who was actually trying to ask useful questions and HP/Soveliss now is HUGE. So far all of your posts fail to to contribute strong/solid questions to your suspects and have been driven by second-hand suspicion.

I find that the last post was effort being faked.

I find more effort in TownHP who have asked questions like:

No one seems to have actually answered hp's question yet, which I find strange. Judging from the given role PMs I'd say we are told the method (The Werewolves PM says eaten while the Mafia's says killed)

I think it'd be very courageous of mafia if they stepped up and said "Yes it does; it's in my role PM"

Any reason you c/p'ed only the wolf pm?

Techni, why is it bad to speculate masonry at the time being?

Uhh, Pops, why did you revote tenchi twice?

HP HAS CHANGED.

=============================

I think the four scum are:

HP/SOVELISS
BLUEHEAVEN/POPS
SERAPHIM
(Argh Im not sure yet).

I will vote for any of these people.

[Tenchi]

Wall-E: Who are your "four scum" at the moment? We have four days. Can/Have I convince/d you to change your vote?

HowardRoark: Your post seems fixated on HP/Soveliss. Do you have any other suspicions on the other players?

Can I convince you to request a deadline extension?

Pops

FoS

:

I reread this and it made me poop my pants :

Wall-E, what would you think about a consensus lynch on Seraphim? His case is very good.

Why would Townies bargain with a lynch that everyone would agree on? If it is a solid scum lynch, there will (almost) always be dissidents. Only scum would ask a townie (perhaps other scum) for a "consensus lynch".

[popsofctown]

howard: we need a consensus lynch. no one else is voting hp, and we're deadlined

[Tenchi]

howard: we need a consensus lynch. no one else is voting hp, and we're deadlined

Um... no. I am playing against four scum right now. There are five of us and we don't need your vote.

[Tenchi]

howard: we need a consensus lynch. no one else is voting hp, and we're deadlined

Also, you seem want to convince us (Town) to find the most convenient and quickest lynch given the deadline situation as opposed to finding the most logical and intelligent lynch Town could make.

Clearly you are not playing for town.