Mini 745 - Moving Day Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[Tovarish]

I'm with EA, despite the TL;DR (but I did read) nature of many of the posts here, it seems that what we have is a disagreement of how to start a game, not what is helping the town. Disputing what Ac had to say, voting on questioning a scummy act on the third page isn't sentencing us to certain doom

unvote

. I would like to know from killa seven how all of us look scummy to him.

Also, I will be facing a kind of limited access until the weeked. Forgive my not telling you sooner.

Top of page 4 vote count:

Erratus Apathos 2 (dejkha, ZEEnon)
ac1983fan 2 (Erratus Apathos, don_johnson)
don_johnson 1 (Jazzmyn)
Tovarish 1 (q21)
dejkha 1 (Plonky)
ZEEnon 1 (Herodotus)

Not voting: killa seven, ac1983fan, Zer0ph34r, Tovarish

With 12 still packing it takes 7 to lynch.

Note: this vote count should be accurate as of this post.
No prods required at this time!

[ac1983fan]

Put it like this:

To be scummy an action has to be intentionally beneficial to the scum. Were that the case EA would have had to be voting someone to L-4 with in the hope that that led to a quick-myslynch on the second (or soon thereafter) page of the game. - Not likely to happen.

To be townie his action would be with the intent of helping the town. Applying this to EA's bandwagon vote he would be trying to spark off some meaningful discussion amongst the town. Even if this discussion is about that very vote its still a positive move from random voting.

All in all, since EA's vote was the catalyst in moving toward constructive town play and, so far as I can tell, was always intended that way, I think it was a more townie act than scummy.

I can understand that point of view. However, I have seen at least one game where a lynch occured on the first page due to people bandwagoning, so it does happen. I don't really think EA is particularly scummy or townie, but I still think changing your vote too much during the early stage isn't really a good idea for the town. But, I digress...

I wasn't defending anyone, I was simply stating that I thought plonky's question was foolish. He took one bit of evidence, and decided to make a vote on it. I know it's only page 3, but it's still bad form. And I figured that dehjka had already covered why you were suspicious, but I wasn't about to vote for you over one thing, because that's exactly the thing which plonky did that I was FOSing him for. But to clarify, I found the fact that you saw that there were several people with two votes, and the unvoted to vote for somebody who already had several votes on him, while saying wagon's are the path to victory. I think dehjka was jumping the gun on voting for you, zeenon's vote is clearly OMGUS, however, please explain your reasoning, if any, for changing your vote the way you did.

It looks like you are confusing Erratus Apathos with Plonky. EA was the one who placed the third vote (on Zeenon,) and Plonky was the one who asked dejkah about the response.

Besides what Erratus Apathos said in post 51 and Plonky said in post 55, I can't understand ac1983fan's decision to use a FoS instead of a vote. Plonky had no votes at the time, but acfan is unwilling to place the first (L-6) vote? There may also be significance to his unvoting right before FoSing, but I don't know what it is.

At this point, though, Zeenon is more interesting to me. Two OMGUS votes against random votes? And calling something obvious that isn't?

Vote: Zeenon

FoS: acfan

@killer seven: You're right, you didn't claim to be certain. But the request for more detail stands.

Nope, I was responding to EA's staatements towards me. I was FOSing plonky in regards to his response to dehjka's response to EA.

The reason why I didn't vote is because I don't think there is enough evidence to make a real vote yet. I unvoted because my vote on page 1 was, like all others, a joke vote. It was page 2. It is no longer the time for joke votes by page 2.

Nevermind that post, you're right, I'm wrong. I was thinking of plonky. I was confusing them... I really need to think things through a little more what I post...

[ac1983fan]

^woah, I screwed up the quotes in that post; the quote box encompassing the entire end of my post should not be there...

Fixed

[Zer0ph34r]

I'm not convinced that EA is scum quite yet, but he definitely seems suspicious at the moment.

[ZEEnon]

Four way ties suck. Wagons are the path to victory!

this quote seems exceptionally scummy .
THAT explains my reason for his vote .
normally mafia try to bandwagon
people to be lynched casually in order
to not attract suspicion .
i would think that i wouldn't need
to explain that, but i guess
Erratus Apathos is a little slow .

I show that wagoning is in fact not victory for scum...

bandwagon is a tool utilized by
the mafia in order to have an innocent
lynched and they ask questions that
aren't even relevant in order to
make them seem guilty .
this tool can also be used by
townspeople is certain cases to try
and pressure certain players to reveal
something, hopefully scumtells .

[Herodotus]

Nope, I was responding to EA's staatements towards me. I was FOSing plonky in regards to his response to dehjka's response to EA.

The reason why I didn't vote is because I don't think there is enough evidence to make a real vote yet. I unvoted because my vote on page 1 was, like all others, a joke vote. It was page 2. It is no longer the time for joke votes by page 2.

Nevermind that post, you're right, I'm wrong. I was thinking of plonky. I was confusing them... I really need to think things through a little more what I post...

There's probably no need to get into this, as long as everyone understands what you were saying, but looking back, I think I was wrong to correct you. I probably thought you were talking about Plonky's change of vote, when you were really talking about EA's change of vote.
Also "random" votes are not "joke votes." Random votes are one of many ways to give people material to use in building a discussion. It is only by coincidence that people often make jokes while posting them.

this quote seems exceptionally scummy .
THAT explains my reason for his vote .
normally mafia try to bandwagon
people to be lynched casually in order
to not attract suspicion .
i would think that i wouldn't need
to explain that, but i guess
Erratus Apathos is a little slow .

EA wasn't the only one who asked you to explain.

bandwagon is a tool utilized by
the mafia
...
this tool can also be used by
townspeople ...

How confident are you that you know which is the case in this instance?

[ZEEnon]

EA wasn't the only one who asked you to explain.

the only other person who asked
me a question was Plonky,
and that was to answer the same question
he asked someone else:
"You do understand the benefits of bandwagonning, yes?"
i believe i answered that in the later part
of my previous post .. did i not ?

How confident are you that you know which is the case in this instance?

i can't be confident,
but if he was trying to pressure,
he could have asked a question with it
instead of just stating it was bandwagon vote .

[Tovarish]

EA's Mafia Scum, he's been here awhile. Do we really think he's stupid enough to betray his scummery in such an obvious manner. obvscum is frequently not scum.

[Jazzmyn]

ZEEnon, what's with the weird line spacing of your posts? Do you hit the return key every X number of characters or what?

Regards,
Jazz

[ZEEnon]

ZEEnon, what's with the weird line spacing of your posts? Do you hit the return key every X number of characters or what?

Regards,
Jazz

haha i'm actually not sure,
i think everytime i write a post
there is an immaginary line
that i decide i can't cross .

[Jazzmyn]

haha i'm actually not sure,
i think everytime i write a post
there is an immaginary line
that i decide i can't cross .

Okay, that's just plain weird.

Unvote. Vote: ZEEnon.

Regards,
Jazz

[ZEEnon]

haha i love your explanation,
it's very insightful.

[Erratus Apathos]

Like hell, it never stood to begin with! You just come in with some smartass "yeah it's victory, FOR SCUM!!!!! burn" that doesn't prove dick, and then when (despite the burden of proof being on you here, not me) I show that wagoning is in fact not victory for scum, thus crushing the nonexistent basis your shitty comeback had, all you say is "lol, no"? I couldn't fail that much if I tried.

Congratulations. You weren't trying and you pulled it off. That's the key.

troll more

So I know who town is because I might be scum, and I might be scum because I know who town is. That's so circular that even circles say "Damn, that's circular."

Care to quote me on where I said you know who town is and that's why you're scum? I'm quite interested.

Interesting statement, this. Kindly explain.

Oh, and:

unvote, vote: dejkha

Scum already know who town is and it's not uncommon for them to just get on a bandwagon. They just want town to lynch themselves, so hopping on a bandwagon because "[they] are the path to victory" is a little scummy.

You explained your attack on me by saying that scum know who town is. That pretty clearly implies you think I know who town is.

I'm not convinced that EA is scum quite yet, but he definitely seems suspicious at the moment.

FOS: Zer0ph34r

Sounds like you're trying to avoid getting involved.

Four way ties suck. Wagons are the path to victory!

this quote seems exceptionally scummy .
THAT explains my reason for his vote .
normally mafia try to bandwagon
people to be lynched casually in order
to not attract suspicion .
i would think that i wouldn't need
to explain that, but i guess
Erratus Apathos is a little slow .

Two things. One:

Have fun! If you aren't having fun, I want to know why, and if you're stopping others from having fun, then you'll be dealt with, most likely by forced replacement, if you're sucking large amounts of fun out of the game. Don't take the game personally, and don't flame other players.

Two, what you need to explain is why in the hell you think I was trying to lynch you

with a random vote.

I show that wagoning is in fact not victory for scum...

bandwagon is a tool utilized by
the mafia in order to have an innocent
lynched and they ask questions that
aren't even relevant in order to
make them seem guilty .
this tool can also be used by
townspeople is certain cases to try
and pressure certain players to reveal
something, hopefully scumtells .

Wagons don't lead to mislynches. Faulty evidence and crap logic lead to mislynches. Scum will of course try to combine the two, but wagoning by itself won't get the job done.

How confident are you that you know which is the case in this instance?

i can't be confident,
but if he was trying to pressure,
he could have asked a question with it
instead of just stating it was bandwagon vote .

Ask what question? It was the beginning of the game, and there wasn't yet anything to base a question off of.

[q21]

EA wasn't the only one who asked you to explain.

the only other person who asked
me a question was Plonky,

and that was to answer the same question
he asked someone else:
"You do understand the benefits of bandwagonning, yes?"
i believe i answered that in the later part
of my previous post .. did i not ?

The underlined bit fails. I wanted for an explanation too.

haha i'm actually not sure,
i think everytime i write a post
there is an immaginary line
that i decide i can't cross .

Okay, that's just plain weird.

Unvote. Vote: ZEEnon.

Regards,
Jazz

I don't like this vote. Some people have annoying ways of playing, and so far as those go ZEEnon's is pretty tame, certainly not deserving of a vote now that we seem to be very much out of the RVS.

To add weight to my statement of displeasure.

Unvote, Vote Jazzmyn

[dejkha]

Okay, that's just plain weird.

Unvote. Vote: ZEEnon.

Regards,
Jazz

FoS: Jazzmyn

As q21 said, we're clearly out of the RVS and I don't think writing style is a very legit reason to vote someone.

troll more

no u

You explained your attack on me by saying that scum know who town is. That pretty clearly implies you think I know who town is.

No where in that post did I say you must be scum because you know who town is. Try again.

Two, what you need to explain is why in the hell you think I was trying to lynch you

with a random vote.

Sometime randoms votes aren't very random. And if you're scum, it doesn't matter if they are random, since on Day One, it doesn't make a difference to scum who gets lynched, unless they have a lead on a power role.

[ac1983fan]

haha i'm actually not sure,
i think everytime i write a post
there is an immaginary line
that i decide i can't cross .

Okay, that's just plain weird.

Unvote. Vote: ZEEnon.

Regards,
Jazz

major fos:jazzmyn

That's a majorly silly reason to be voting for someone... if you have other reasons, please do tell, but if this is only reason, than you're not being very helpful to the town.

[don_johnson]

How exactly is an L-4 random vote the path to victory for scum? If I'm scum and ZEEnon is town, I would need to convince four players to vote for him,

without evidence against him

, to get a mislynch. Some path to victory that is.

That doesn't disproved what I said. It still stands.

dej: i interpreted this as you being stubborn. simple stubborness is not pro town. its more pro playground.

zeenon: what

is

your deal?

q21: you don't see your vote being a bit hypocritical?

Wagons don't lead to mislynches. Faulty evidence and crap logic lead to mislynches. Scum will of course try to combine the two, but wagoning by itself won't get the job done.

QFT

[q21]

q21: you don't see your vote being a bit hypocritical?

No.

Jazzmyn voted because he doesn't like the way someone writes their posts. I voted jazzmyn for voting with an outright dumb reason - hopefully my vote will cause him to start actually playing.

[Herodotus]

EA wasn't the only one who asked you to explain.

the only other person who asked
me a question was Plonky,

Q21 and I also indicated that you needed to explain yourself, whether it was in the form of a question or not.

How confident are you that you know which is the case in this instance?

i can't be confident,
but if he was trying to pressure,
he could have asked a question with it
instead of just stating it was bandwagon vote .

On page 2, what could he have asked you? And if you would agree that there were no meaningful questions, why did you decide he was mafia? You did say "this quote seems exceptionally scummy," which implies either confidence or overstatement.

Two things. One:

Have fun! If you aren't having fun, I want to know why, and if you're stopping others from having fun, then you'll be dealt with, most likely by forced replacement, if you're sucking large amounts of fun out of the game. Don't take the game personally, and don't flame other players.

Slightly hypocritical there, as you were being needlessly offensive to dejka earlier (i.e. post 61.) Naturally that doesn't mean to deserve to be flamed yourself.

Wagons don't lead to mislynches. Faulty evidence and crap logic lead to mislynches. Scum will of course try to combine the two, but wagoning by itself won't get the job done.

As a side note, I think good logic leads to day one mislynches more often than bad logic does, but that does not disprove your point.

@Tovarish: Happy Birthday!

EA's Mafia Scum, he's been here awhile. Do we really think he's stupid enough to betray his scummery in such an obvious manner. obvscum is frequently not scum.

Any idea who is?

[ac1983fan]

Just posting to say that my aunt passed away today, and the funeral's on monday, so I'll be unavailable from sunday evening until tuesday.

I am sorry for your loss but thank you for letting us know. I will withhold from prodding you for as long as I can.

[raider8169]

Hi everyone, just letting you know that I will be away starting tomorrow until late Sunday. I will update the VC and prods if required then. Thank you and sorry if this causes a delay.

[Jazzmyn]

Some people have annoying ways of playing, and so far as those go ZEEnon's is pretty tame, certainly not deserving of a vote now that we seem to be very much out of the RVS.

Well, it sure felt to me like we were still very much IN the random voting stage, thus my

random

vote on the basis of "that's just plain weird" which should have made it obvious that it was, in fact, a random vote, putting ZEEnon at - OMG! - L-5.

That's a majorly silly reason to be voting for someone... if you have other reasons, please do tell, but if this is only reason, than you're not being very helpful to the town.

See above.

Just posting to say that my aunt passed away today, and the funeral's on monday, so I'll be unavailable from sunday evening until tuesday.

Sorry to hear of your loss.

Regards,
Jazz

[Zer0ph34r]

How does that sound like I'm not trying to get involved? I said what I was thinking, but if that's trying not to get involved then, yes, I guess I'm not.

As of now, the two major people I suspect is:
EA
Jazmynn

[Not, that that doesn't suck, but I find it odd that 3 games I've been in, someone had to leave for a while due to the illness or death of someone.]

[ZEEnon]

@ Tovarish: hahPEEbeeDAY !
same age, haha . hope it's an awesome day !
(don't let this post effect any game play)

[q21]

Some people have annoying ways of playing, and so far as those go ZEEnon's is pretty tame, certainly not deserving of a vote now that we seem to be very much out of the RVS.

Well, it sure felt to me like we were still very much IN the random voting stage, thus my

random

vote on the basis of "that's just plain weird" which should have made it obvious that it was, in fact, a random vote, putting ZEEnon at - OMG! - L-5.

That's a majorly silly reason to be voting for someone... if you have other reasons, please do tell, but if this is only reason, than you're not being very helpful to the town.

See above.

Just posting to say that my aunt passed away today, and the funeral's on monday, so I'll be unavailable from sunday evening until tuesday.

Sorry to hear of your loss.

Regards,
Jazz

If you vote truly was innocently random then take my vote as encouragement to start playing properly - you have yet to make one post of any real content.