Mini 733- Congratulations! You are... Mafia (Game Over)

[SlySly]

So if we don't know the scum, everyone has an equal chance of being "one of our own".

My first read of the flavor, I thought I was fully confirmed and I thought it was kind of strange for Mirth to reveal my alignment. My second read of the flavor, I thought what you have pointed out above.

------------------------------

Dahill, it is time to move on from me. You can come back later if you feel the need. Now, stop wasting the town's time and start scum hunting.

I will continue to role fish if I want to. I know what my PM says and you don't. I know what I need to find out and if that requires me to role fish, I will.

Votecount

Sly - 729 - [Dahill, des, cow, Darox]
Elvis - 298492 -[Plum]
PJ - 8 - [Glork]

Not Voting - i - [Caf, Isacc, imaginality, Sly, Kmd, Elvis]

Cups of Lemonade Bought: 1

[dahill1]

You require to know my role? Strange..
as for other scum: i'm willing to lynch kmd, EK, and darox today in that order of preference

[Kmd4390]

I seriously doubt Sly is scum after the non-lynch.

Why?

Isn't unlynchable scum kind of loaded? Thought so.

@Kmd: You completely ignored my question. Mind ACTUALLY ANSWERING ME. If you think I was trying to get Des killed, that would mean you are suspicious of me

outside of my gambit

. You cannot use my plan as reason that you were suspicious of me prior to my plan: it doesn't work. Now, please, don't avoid the question any longer.

You attempt a scummy plan and call it a Gambit. I call you out for it. Now you are telling me your scummy plan "CANNOT" be used against you? Why? I'm not avoiding anything. Your plan is my main reason for suspecting you.

Oh, and I moved my vote to lynch Sly.

Vote Isacc

I will continue to role fish if I want to. I know what my PM says and you don't. I know what I need to find out and if that requires me to role fish, I will.

Do you have a lawn gnome for me? Actually, if you do, that lemonade is sounding pretty tempting.

Wait, why didn't I think of this?

Buy: Lawn Gnome

This should actually do something for me...

@Sly/Caf, look closely at your role PMs. Does anything indicate that we can help each other out?

[dahill1]

I seriously doubt Sly is scum after the non-lynch.

Why?

Isn't unlynchable scum kind of loaded? Thought so.

is sly actually completely unlynchable?
even if so, is this not a bastard mafia game?

[Kmd4390]

I may be on to something.

Caf, do you know where you are selling lemonade from? Is it by any chance Florida?

[dahill1]

by the way kmd you still haven't changed your avatar

do it

[Kmd4390]

I seriously doubt Sly is scum after the non-lynch.

Why?

Isn't unlynchable scum kind of loaded? Thought so.

is sly actually completely unlynchable?
even if so, is this not a bastard mafia game?

Seems unlynchable to me. We brought him all the way to hammer and got flavor. The votes never reset. I don't see any way he can be lynched. Unless maybe it requires a unanimous lynch? I really don't think he can be lynched. And bastard game or not, if scum can't be lynched, how do you beat them? Unless there is an equally powerful Vig who can't die or something like that. But I think the role is too powerful to exist as scum.

[Kmd4390]

by the way kmd you still haven't changed your avatar

do it

I'm on my crappy home computer. I'll try though.

[Isacc]

Kmd, you are completely twisting my words. You are making absolutely

no sense

. Please, stop being an idiot.

Read what I am actually saying, rather than whatever nonsense you are interpreting it as.

I made a plan, and explained it afterwards. Based on my explanation, it

shouldn't have risked Des's life.

Now, there are only two possibilities for this.

1. My explanation is honest.

2. My explanation is a lie.

If my explanation is honest, then my plan is not scummy at all.

If my explanation is a lie, that does make my plan scummy.

Thus, the plan

in and of itself

is not scummy, and is only scummy

if you don't believe my explanation

. Thus, the plan cannot logically be used as reasoning for not believing my explanation.

Here is what you are saying:

"Your plan is scummy because your explanation is a lie. Why do I think your explanation is a lie? Because your plan is scummy."

It's circular logic. It's wrong. It's stupid.


Now, remove your vote from me until you actually think about what is going on. And in the future, make sure you read more carefully.

[imaginality]

I notice SlySly haf bought lemonade two times, but only 1 cup sold vas. Apparrently lemonade can only to buy onze per player. Not sure vhat zis means, but vorth noting.


Isacc steered clear of Sly vagon, am vonderingk if he may be scum knowingk Sly is not scum, zo knowingk Sly vas telling truth, so knowingk no value for him to join in lynch. By not voting Sly he looks good vhen we come to belief Sly is town.

Isacc still lookingk scummy to me, yes? Hiss plan re. destructor, whezzer or not scummy in itself, at best vas not helpful for us, seems like attempt to appear scumhunting and keep prrressure on destructor but little chance it vould haf led anyvhere useful.

More significantly, tone of Isacc's posts also just make me feel suspicious of him. Pouring scorn on arrguments against him, and prre-emptif defenses like:

I'm aware I probably look like bad pedaling scum

(vhich incidentally for zose who like verbal slips, 'bad' may be slip here, by ze by)

Vhat vorries me most is, imprresion I get from re-rread: Isacc's posts gif a sense zat he places himself against town rather zan sees himself on same side as us.

I voting him earrrlier, beforre SlySly stuff, now I vote him again.

Vote: Isacc

[Isacc]

@Image:

I said before why I did not join the Sly wagon. How is not joining a wagon scummy?

You don't like the tone of my posts? It's how I am, get over it. If you find that a tell, then you fail at meta. Also, there is nothing wrong for being scornful of BAD arguments.

That's not a preemptive defense. That's not a defense at all. It's a concession. Plus, a-priori is not inherently scummy either.

And finally, my posts give a sense that I place myself against town? Way to make an argument with NO evidence. Yes, just say I seem anti-town, and hope other people listen. Care to provide evidence? Care to say how exactly I seem against the town? Or are you just going to state an opinion that might likely be based on nothing, and call that a case?

[Kmd4390]

Isacc, the plan was scummy. It was scummy before your explanation.

I don't buy your explanation.

That's why your plan and explanation are scummy together. Not because of circular logic. Your plan isn't scummy BECAUSE of the explanation. It was scummy because it would result in Des's death. If I believed your explanation, your plan wouldn't look scummy. But I don't buy it, so the scumminess of the plan is still there.

[Isacc]

EXACTLY. WHY DON'T YOU BUY MY EXPLANATION.

That's the bloody question you've been AVOIDING.

Last time I asked it, you said "because, you made a scummy plan." Thus you WERE using circular logic.

[Isacc]

Mod: Can Kmd be reported for that avatar? I find it offensive.

[Kmd4390]

I don't buy the explanation because I think you are scum mainly based on your plan. It's not circular logic because I would have to think your plan was scummy BECAUSE of the explanation, which I don't. If you think I do, you are putting words in my mouth to make it into circular logic.

[Kmd4390]

Mod: Can Kmd be reported for that avatar? I find it offensive.

I find it offensive too. Lost a bet.

[hasdgfas]

I made a plan, and explained it afterwards. Based on my explanation, it

shouldn't have risked Des's life.

Now, there are only two possibilities for this.

1. My explanation is honest.

2. My explanation is a lie.

If my explanation is honest, then my plan is not scummy at all.

If my explanation is a lie, that does make my plan scummy.

Wrong, your explanation can be honest and the plan can still be scummy. Your explanation can also be a lie and the plan still not be scummy.

What makes you think that an honest explanation = unscummy plan?

[Kmd4390]

Mod: Can Kmd be reported for that avatar? I find it offensive.

I find it offensive too. Lost a bet.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 82#1455582

[Isacc]

Ok now Cow is on the "I can't understand basic logic" train. Here, let me explain it AGAIN.

Based on my explanation,

there wouldn't have been any deaths

. I wanted a

reaction

out of Destructor, not a modkill. Thus, based on my explanation, my plan shouldn't be scummy.

Also, Kmd you contradicted yourself. Post 586, the last two sentences you say that if you believed my explanation, the plan wouldn't look scummy, but since you don't believe me, it does. Therefore you ARE saying that my plan is scummy because you don't believe my explanation, and that you don't believe my explanation because my plan is scummy. You ARE using circular logic. I am NOT putting words in your mouth. But, you ARE contradicting yourself.

[Isacc]

Oh and sorry, I'm not mad about your avi then. I didn't realize there was a bet.

[hasdgfas]

just so all of you know, I'm not posting in this game again until kmd's avatar is changed. I refuse to look at it.

[Kmd4390]

Based on my explanation,

there wouldn't have been any deaths

. I wanted a

reaction

out of Destructor, not a modkill. Thus, based on my explanation, my plan shouldn't be scummy.

Your explanation IS that there wouldn't be any deaths and the whole thing was a Gambit for his reaction. I don't buy that explanation.

Also, Kmd you contradicted yourself. Post 586, the last two sentences you say that if you believed my explanation, the plan wouldn't look scummy, but since you don't believe me, it does. Therefore you ARE saying that my plan is scummy because you don't believe my explanation, and that you don't believe my explanation because my plan is scummy. You ARE using circular logic. I am NOT putting words in your mouth. But, you ARE contradicting yourself.

Ok, let me try to follow this.

"you say that if you believed my explanation, the plan wouldn't look scummy, but since you don't believe me, it does"
Right.

"Therefore you ARE saying that my plan is scummy because you don't believe my explanation"
No. It was scummy. Even if your explanation had NEVER come, it would still be scummy.

[Isacc]

@Kmd: How was my plan scummy?

[Kmd4390]

@Kmd: How was my plan scummy?

The plan of having Des die was scummy because Des would die either by modkill or lynch. That's scummy because there is no way out and it's basically a "die because I said so" plan. Well, I guess with that logic, it's like a vigkill . But seriously, you are asking him to agree to die which doesn't seem productive to me.

Yeah, I fail at explaining, but that should make sense. I hope.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, and the avatar was removed by Mith. New one will go up when I hear from Dahill and it is approved by Mith.