Mini 734 - GrimMafia - OVER

[springlullaby]

By the way, I support an extension.

[zwetschenwasser]

I do also.

[JereIC]

Ditto.

[zwetschenwasser]

Dit the toe.

[Pablo Molinero]

Aye, it's needed.

[JereIC]

Dit the toe.

As in a toe named Dit?

Still waiting for a response from Springlullaby and Nuwen to my questions in #233.

[zwetschenwasser]

no, as in to the do of the dit to the toe named ditto.

[springlullaby]

Spring, you mention your default alignment for lurkers is scum. Does that not apply to active lurkers like Zero?

I forgot to answer that.

Active lurking is a fault, but the scumminess in active lurking is in the deception of contribution scum may want to create by constantly posting, while the content of the posts have no value. I feel that active lurking is not the correct term to describe Zero, as I do not detect deception from him. Of course this is wifom, especially since people have made know that he just may be too scummy to be scum, and his latest contribution is kinda playing into the expectations, but I'm going with it now

[zwetschenwasser]

Whoa. I'm having this exact same "too scummy for scum" discussion in Immunity Mafia. I personally don't agree with that philosophy.

[Ectomancer]

Jere and Zwet, you support an extension, but your votes are still on. Were you not concerned with Zero at L-2 if you support more discussion?
This cellphone is horrid for research. Can someone see what their apparent stance was prior to this request? (We still need to submit to the mod)

mod: what's our deadline status

[JereIC]

Jere and Zwet, you support an extension, but your votes are still on. Were you not concerned with Zero at L-2 if you support more discussion?
This cellphone is horrid for research. Can someone see what their apparent stance was prior to this request? (We still need to submit to the mod)

That's a good point, I just hadn't thought of it.

Unvote

My stance up to post 195 was to lynch Zero (and, if he was scum, start the case against Spring in earnest). As of post 213 I wanted more information from other players, and I should have unvoted to make sure they had time to answer. As the fifth vote, that contradicts what I said in post 44. 213 was basically a screw up in that I was too focused on spring and zach's quarrel, BB's argument, and Nuwen's defense of Zero to think to unvote.

[Grimmy]

As for the deadline status, it has been extended again.

As for why, that news is not so good.

Skilit has informed me that due to real life circumstances (good ones, dont worry) he will not be able to keep his spot in the game, and has voluntarily removed himself due to time constraints.

Now some more good news.
I already have a replacement lined up, and ill send them into the game shortly.

Deadline extended indefinitely for now

Grimmy

[Grimmy]

Madame.Fobs.hero replaces Skillit effective when Madame makes her first post in the game.

Grimmy

[madam.fobs.hero.]

Hey, guys. I'm actually a dude. Madam Fob is presumably female. I'm her hero. If I was female, I'd be Madam Fob's heroine.

[madam.fobs.hero.]

im up to page seven. ill get the rest when i can.

note: im writing this before I look at who im replacing.

easy targets
zer0ph34r
ectomancer
springlullaby

middle of the pack
sipylus
skillit
jereic
zwetschenwasser

background noises
beyond_birthday
Zachrulez
wolfblitzer
pablo molinero
nuwen

for the first two pages, you guys act like strange cats, hissing at each other. no clear scum have emerged, just a lot of infighting.

i like that perardua posts an analysis, but it doesnt really say much that hasn't already been said.

i agree that lurkers arent necessarily scum.

sipylus looks like scum to me. his vote on z3phyr (yes, you're now z3phyr) has no real reason that hasn't already been discussed, and his wheat-chaff ratio chart is dumb, pointless, and inaccurate.

I agree with springlullaby. speedlynch on page 2 would be

great

for town. were trading the information gained from a long day (which, while helpful, I feel is overrated) for almost sure knowledge of at least some of the scum. a speedlynch on page 2 won't be exclusively town, nor will it be completely scum-driven. all that remains is sorting out the stupid from the scum.

beyond_birthday is also giving me scumvibes. his post 90 is far too cautious. his play in general is too cautious, in fact. i keep getting the feeling that he reads his posts before he submits them to check for slips and to add things from his list of general things a townie would say. the percentages he gives are retarded. you dont win mafia with percentages. i put up with them within player analysis, but there's no need for every post to include the percentages players have increased/decreased.

springlullaby gets it.

pablo is too cautious too, but im willing to write that off as newbishness.

it's page 5 and i still dont have a read on zwetschenwasser. you guys are making me paranoid.
also, add me to the list of people who hate ellipses.

lol @ z3roph34r, who's spelling-conscious, calling ecto etco.

zwet still hasnt posted any content except to post that other players arent posting content. lurker or scum? idk.

beyond_birthday, in your sig, whats the difference between Neu~ and -neu? survivor and sk? if that's it, what will you do for misc neutral roles, like, idk, jester?

zachrulez vote on zer0ph34r feels town. i reserve the right to change that opinion, but its well-thought out with good reasons. beyond_birthdays doesnt. he does this thing where he talks a lot without saying

anything at all

, and then votes at the end of it. in fact, he does that thing throughout the entire game. i would be satisfied with a beyond_birthday lynch. zwetschenwassers feels scum too. his post is basically me too, vote zero. its especially ironic that he dogs on beyond_birthday for doing the same thing, only with more reasoning.

[Zachrulez]

FOS: Zwet

For someone who called me a question dodger, (225) he seems to be dodging the question I asked him about what question I dodged. (231)

Vote stays on Zero until he actively participates in the game and starts scumhunting.

[Grimmy]

Hey, guys. I'm actually a dude. Madam Fob is presumably female. I'm her hero. If I was female, I'd be Madam Fob's heroine.

Noted. You are replacing Skilit, and I will refer to you as MFHero for the remainder of the game, or if a funnier (to me) abbreviation comesup

[Zer0ph34r]

People say I talk about nothing [which I do], when you're talking about toes or something. I say give me a chance, not because I'm going to all of a sudden start knowing a whole bunch of stuff, because that's not what I mean, but rather that I will be of much more help in the second day.

Now, zwet, you can go ahead with your reply to this probably saying something along the lines of "Zer0's just trying to get further in the game as scum, we can't trust him, or he's just being a whiner and is getting nervous."

[madam.fobs.hero.]

2&2()}€/\12s wagon (see, im £1ë[-7 too!!eleven) seems way too easy for it to have grown to five votes without scum helping it along. id say there are probably around two scum on the wagon, and those two scum are probably zwetschenwasser and either beyond_birthday or zachrulez.

note that im not defending z3r0ph34r. im just saying that hes way too easy a target. if hes scum, hes being bussed, and im not even sure thats whats happening. his reaction seems more like pissy noob town than scum. actually, take that back. i am defending him. 176 all but convinces me hes town. appeals to emotion are what noobtown

do

. in light of that, zachrulez 179 and zwetschenwassers 180 feel really scummy. zach doesnt even really sound like he thinks z3r0ph34r is scum, and zwetschenwasser is pulling the meta card on him when its, what, his second or third game? metas can vary wildly for the first five or so games as a player tries to develop a consistent playstyle.

pablo gets tentative townie points for 162. thats wifom, but the wine has to be on one side or the other (shut up, wesley). wolfblitzer loses them for his response.

z3r0ph34r is getting really emotional about explaining why hes not emotional. he feels ubertown.

as of zwetschenwassers 184, im ready to lynch him. pure gloating scum.

jereic is omgussing poorly.

nuwen gets hugemongoultramega town points for 190. finally, a voice of sanity other than springlullaby. the more i read of this post the more i think

yes yes exactly!

for the record, nuwen, from what ive read ecto is usually this abrasive, especially when hes the among the most experienced players in the game. he kind of shrinks when hes not.

rofl @ beyond_birthdays hmmmm okay whatever vote springlullaby. beyond_birthday is using another one of those posts where he doesnt say anything worthwhile and he takes a long time to do it.

zachrulez responses to nuwen are really scummy. oh yeah? well maybe

youre

his scumbuddy! also, quit being snarky (yeah, its a word). its not helping anything, and it just makes you look like a petulant asshole.

theres really nothing interesting in the last two pages except zwetschenwasser voting zachrulez. bussing? idk.

vote: zwetschenwasser

i would also be happy with a zachrulez lynch, and possibly a different one (id be fine with beyond_birthday) depending on the circumstances.

preview edit: zer0ph34r, in case you didnt notice, youre getting a second chance. nuwen gave you one. now quit bitching and start helping. no need to wait until the second day. i know youre new at this. get over it.

lets get this show on the road.

[madam.fobs.hero.]

mod, im sorry to be that guy but i gotta be that guy: would you do votecounts more frequently? perhaps edit them into the top of the post at each page, or maybe just make sure its once per page?

[Zachrulez]

2&2()}€/\12s wagon (see, im £1ë[-7 too!!eleven) seems way too easy for it to have grown to five votes without scum helping it along. id say there are probably around two scum on the wagon, and those two scum are probably zwetschenwasser and either beyond_birthday or zachrulez.

If you don't know whether scum are on the wagon or not... PLEASE stop assuming. If you do know... then you ARE scum.

note that im not defending z3r0ph34r. im just saying that hes way too easy a target. if hes scum, hes being bussed, and im not even sure thats whats happening. his reaction seems more like pissy noob town than scum. actually, take that back. i am defending him. 176 all but convinces me hes town. appeals to emotion are what noobtown

do

. in light of that, zachrulez 179 and zwetschenwassers 180 feel really scummy. zach doesnt even really sound like he thinks z3r0ph34r is scum, and zwetschenwasser is pulling the meta card on him when its, what, his second or third game? metas can vary wildly for the first five or so games as a player tries to develop a consistent playstyle.

Let me get this straight... you are defending his play as newbie play, in a non newbie game? This is not a newbie game, if it was, then I MIGHT listen to this bullshit. Worse than that is that you try to argue that he's town based on an appeal to emotion. Wonderful, trying to put shit logic on what is already a logical fallacy.

I am in absolute amazement at the fact that my case against Zero is suddenly scummy just because YOU have determined him to be town. Whatever man.

pablo gets tentative townie points for 162. thats wifom, but the wine has to be on one side or the other (shut up, wesley). wolfblitzer loses them for his response.

Because his argument is on the side of thinking that Zero might be scum?

z3r0ph34r is getting really emotional about explaining why hes not emotional. he feels ubertown.

Bullshit.

as of zwetschenwassers 184, im ready to lynch him. pure gloating scum.

Maybe, you seem to be too decisive and certain though.

jereic is omgussing poorly.

Huh? Is this in reference to his exchange with Spring?

nuwen gets hugemongoultramega town points for 190. finally, a voice of sanity other than springlullaby. the more i read of this post the more i think

yes yes exactly!

for the record, nuwen, from what ive read ecto is usually this abrasive, especially when hes the among the most experienced players in the game. he kind of shrinks when hes not.

Reading this kind of praise bothers me.

rofl @ beyond_birthdays hmmmm okay whatever vote springlullaby. beyond_birthday is using another one of those posts where he doesnt say anything worthwhile and he takes a long time to do it.

I didn't understand that vote either.

zachrulez responses to nuwen are really scummy. oh yeah? well maybe

youre

his scumbuddy! also, quit being snarky (yeah, its a word). its not helping anything, and it just makes you look like a petulant asshole.

This point makes no sense. You already said above you don't think Zero is being bussed. By the way, why would I make a case against him, and shine the spotlight right on his face if I was?

I'm going to ignore the rest of that paragraph...

theres really nothing interesting in the last two pages except zwetschenwasser voting zachrulez. bussing? idk.

Zwet hasn't voted for me. I don't know WHERE you think you saw such a vote...

vote: zwetschenwasser

i would also be happy with a zachrulez lynch, and possibly a different one (id be fine with beyond_birthday) depending on the circumstances.

preview edit: zer0ph34r, in case you didnt notice, youre getting a second chance. nuwen gave you one. now quit bitching and start helping. no need to wait until the second day. i know youre new at this. get over it.

lets get this show on the road.

Zero doesn't get a 2nd chance from me until he actually does try to help. I'm sick of this, "I can be more of a help on day 2 crap." Start helping now.

[Zachrulez]

Also another thought I had...

You call Zero's wagon easy, but vote for Zwet?

They're both active lurkers, and both seem like easy bandwagons.

It... just... seems... hyp-o-cri-ti-cal.

[Pablo Molinero]

You're really calling zwet an active lurker? He's kept his posts short, but they have had significant content than these long fluff-posts flting around. Hell, he's been one of the main proponents of the Zero wagon.

[JereIC]

My God, did MaFoHero break out of the same asylum as Nuwen and Spring? Who scrawled onto your padded cell walls "SPEEDLYNCHES ARE GOOD 4 TOWN"? You all can't be part of a science experiment: not even the maddest of mad scientists are that insane.*

Obvious insanity aside, your points about Zach and Zwet seem decent, and Zach's response to them is fascinating. However, you defense of Zero is

exactly the same

as Nuwen's and Spring's. And it's still basically the newbie defense. I can't imagine you picked that up at the insane asylum too.... Also, I plain don't like anyone who comes to the defense of another in this game, unless they're masons or otherwise have proof of each other's towniness.

I've got some thoughts about beyond_birthday too, gimme a chance to write them down and make them clear.

* Not that I'm interested in discussing it atm. After the game, I've got a thesis I'm going to post on this.

[Zachrulez]

You're really calling zwet an active lurker? He's kept his posts short, but they have had significant content than these long fluff-posts flting around. Hell, he's been one of the main proponents of the Zero wagon.

Ok, this was perhaps more true toward the beginning of the game and less so now... so I'll concede that, but I stand by my statement that both wagons seem easy.