Past Ages Mafia - Game Over

[Raging Rabbit]

I guess the idea looks pretty appealing seeing all the support it's getting, so I'm not sure how much of it tell it was of UR to suggest it, but no lynching is a terrible idea. It really doesn't matter what game we'll be in tommorow, giving the scum a free night and starting tommorow with close to no info far outweighs the disadvantage of a slightly more dangerous d1 lynch.

[MacavityLock]

Just a post to say that No Lynch is bad.

[Empking]

I agree with my other head.

[Santos]

I support the idea of a lynch. We get two town directed kills for one; we'd be fools to pass this up.

So you're suggesting that the chances of hitting scum is great, if not greater since two people can die today...amirite?

So are we assuming the two heads are made up of town/town, town/scum, and scum/scum?

[Santos]

Well, considering I listed all the possibilities of these pairings there is definitely a point in going for a lynch, however, it may cost us the game if we lynch two townies. Adversely, lynching two scum in one hit would grossly overpower the town. I just don't see town/town or scum/scum being a possibility in this game or else the game ends QUICKLY; wanting the day to end quickly is scummy.

[Santos]

Unvote

I abstain unless my other head has a better point of view on the situation.

[UnofficialRulerOfEveryone]

Well, considering I listed all the possibilities of these pairings there is definitely a point in going for a lynch, however, it may cost us the game if we lynch two townies. Adversely, lynching two scum in one hit would grossly overpower the town. I just don't see town/town or scum/scum being a possibility in this game or else the game ends QUICKLY; wanting the day to end quickly is scummy.

So, you are saying that there are no town/town match-ups?

10 scum is impossible, moron.

[ShadowGirl]

And just to clarify; yes my vote on Empking/myself was a joke.

Why clarify if you've already done it once before and no one was inquiring into the matter?

[ortolan]

Because of crap posts like 94 (by you, btw) which implied you still hadn't grasped my facetious intention.

[ShadowGirl]

Does that mean that whatever you do that you deem a joke should be stricken from the record?

[ortolan]

Not at all, but you are simply wrong if you think it makes me scummy. You are also wrong for suggesting I repeated myself when the clarification and more explicit language was itself prompted by you saying "I don't understand why he vote Empking twice" which isn't valid when the action has already been explained as in jest. Either dispute my classification of my vote on Empking as a joke, or agree with it, but don't use weasel words to suggest the mere fact I voted Empking twice (when the reason was that he himself reversed my vote anyhow) is somehow scummy.

[ShadowGirl]

Nowhere did I use the words scum or scummy (other then in the context of Emp's statistic). I found it merely a point of note. And, voting Emp twice in a row was excessive.

[ShadowGirl]

Not that I've had time to more then skim the first few pages (I was at school.)

just a quick comment to avoid Empking possibly taking me to the gallows with him:

He has a scummy (very scummy) meta, please read his recent games and see how likely he is to be lynched versus how many times he actually is scum (no offense, Empking). Yes, I am trying to save my own skin here

I concur with this meta, since I've played in games with him, but I can't say I really advocate the usage of it. I'd say

it's a null tell at best

, but it seems odd to bring up the statistics of him being scum. And the fact that you have nearly three posts in a row of his history. o_O And why did you feel the need to vote him twice withing a seven minute span?

I even specifically mentioned that I didn't think that made you scum/scummy.

[ortolan]

"odd" is a euphemism for scummy, you are suggesting there was something untoward about my action.

What was wrong with voting Empking again? He did *exactly* the same thing also, voting Brandi twice in a row. His vote invalidated mine so I don't see how it's not perfectly reasonable to re-direct the vote (and I knew he was just going to change it back a minute after I posted anyway). And maybe my reasoning was that I didn't like the Brandi vote? Perhaps even if I didn't feel strongly about it I preferred an Empking lynch to a Brandi one, in which case changing the vote was justified? Perhaps, after all, it was a joke?

[Raging Rabbit]

Well, considering I listed all the possibilities of these pairings there is definitely a point in going for a lynch, however, it may cost us the game if we lynch two townies. Adversely, lynching two scum in one hit would grossly overpower the town. I just don't see town/town or scum/scum being a possibility in this game or else the game ends QUICKLY; wanting the day to end quickly is scummy.

"Cost us the game" is ridiculous - the most it'll cost is two townies we find scummy. Town wins through the day game, by going to night we only help scum. Successful lynches require analysis of past ones, as well as discussion and a healthy flow of information - so by negating all of this d1 you hurt our future lynches, as well. And even if your guess about the nature of the pairings made sense, which it doesn't because we don't have 10 scum out of 20 players, trying to blatantly outguess the mod like that doesn't lead to anything good.

[Empking]

"odd" is a euphemism for scummy, you are suggesting there was something untoward about my action.

I don't agree with this.I think that when a lot of people say "Odd", they mean that itsweird but not scummy.

[raider8169]

"odd" is a euphemism for scummy, you are suggesting there was something untoward about my action.

I don't agree with this.I think that when a lot of people say "Odd", they mean that itsweird but not scummy.

I agree, though I guess it can change depending on the context.

[ortolan]

Why did she feel the need to describe my behaviour as odd then?

And how is it odd, anyway- you agree with my characterisation of his meta as scummy, why do you take issue with me presenting evidence for such? Really having trouble seeing where you're coming from with this.

[BSG]

I don't agree with a no-lynch.
It only give us less information to use. Besides, we have more chance of hitting scum, so I'd like to use it.
Short said, I agree with post 125. Add post 139 as well.

*get better soon Brandi*

*Happy birthday other head *

I can tell you what I didn't like about it if you want me to Ortolan. It has all to do with this quote:

Obviously he has a no less than normal probability of being scum this game, but I am just asking you be wary because he does have a scummy meta and if he is lynched this entails me being lynched also, which is bad for my action be it town or mafia (so as I said this comes from self-interest)

You are defending him with meta (which is something I don't like), while admitting that he could be scum. And I don't see how it could be bad that you get lynched if Empking is scum. It's also interesting to note that you say 'self-interest', while speaking about that you could be town or mafia. That's not what I would call 'self-interest' as you should do it for the best of the town or mafia.

[Kmd4390]

On a more serious note,

unvote vote UROE

for suggesting a no lynch. UR, what makes you think we'll stay in any game type for longer than one day? Even if it were true, don't you think we're much better off going into d2 with some info, even at the price of a possible mislynch?

I was waiting for this.

The no lynch is a valid discussion in a game like this. The normal consensus is that no lynch Day 1 is always bad. Easy for scum to jump on someone for that.

Unvote, Vote Raging Rabbit

As for the discussion itself, I am slightly against no lynch because it gives the scum a free kill. I can see the merit behind it because a double mislynch obviously isn't great.

Um, what's to be unsure about? Suppose we do have another two-headed day tommorow - would we really be better off if we no lynched today? We'll be in more or less the same position we're in right now. What would you suggest then, another no lynch?

I really don't expect another double headed day. But no, if it were to happen, no lynch a second time would be terrible. Assuming only one anti-town faction, but both heads dying via NK, that's 4 dead townies with no chance of hitting scum.

Actually, with that in mind, let's look at today. No lynch would give us 2 dead townies assuming both heads die and no chance of hitting scum. Any other killing roles makes it possible that 4 townies die at night. This is true regardless of what happens during the day. If we lynch someone, two people will die. So at worst, a lynch gives us 4-6 dead townies. At best, 2 dead townies, 2 dead scum (or even 4 dead scum in there is a second killing role and two pairs of attached scum). A no lynch still gives us the chance of cross-kill or vig-kill if there are other killing roles, but if not, we can't hit scum at all.

I think lynching is the right move today.

Oh, I thought that was somehow part of your hypothetical situation in which a no lynch would be good. So, if the game works like we all think it does and we switch to another system tommorow, why no lynch?

The reason for a no lynch would be that we wouldn't have to sacrifice a possible townie to lynch scum, and we could just lynch the same scummy player tomorrow.

I guess the idea looks pretty appealing seeing all the support it's getting

, so I'm not sure how much of it tell it was of UR to suggest it, but no lynching is a terrible idea. It really doesn't matter what game we'll be in tommorow, giving the scum a free night and starting tommorow with close to no info far outweighs the disadvantage of a slightly more dangerous d1 lynch.

Please clarify the bolded.

Ort, yes you said you were joking, but it doesn't tell us 100% that you are being truthful. It is up for judgement. And Emp voted Brandi twice in a row to move your vote off of him. His actions are justified regardless of your intent.

Wish my other head would post more...

[Slicey]

I'm kind of torn between No Lynch idea. D1 NL's are almost always bad because then we have very little to go on D2. However, if we lynch, we have to possibility of losing 4 townies (two on the lynch and two at night.)

I'm more in favor of a lynch, but I'm not throwing the NL idea out the window.

[Empking's Alt]

I'm against no lynching but if it ends up being the best plan, I'll go for it. I want us to scum hunt before deciding NL though.

[Empking]

I'm against no lynching but if it ends up being the best plan, I'll go for it. I want us to scum hunt before deciding NL though.

[populartajo]

I'm against no lynching but if it ends up being the best plan, I'll go for it. I want us to scum hunt before deciding NL though.

Would you please stop doing this?
Thoughts later tonight.
Im just wondering why do you people think this game will have another day of Two headed. DId you read the thread where you joined this game?

[Lawrencelot]

@whoever asked me why ortolan confused me: I did not know whether he was joking or not. Now he said that he was, and also because my vote was semi-random:

Unvote

.

No lynch is bad. Why? For the same reasons as in a normal game. Assuming the second heads are chosen randomly, lynching someone randomly would give us a certain percentage of hitting scum, times two because the other head gets lynched as well. On the other hand, the night gives us a 100% chance to lose 2 townies (if there were no powerroles, and 1 scumgroup). It's just as if we perform two day-night cycles in a normal game, but only if both our lynch target and his head are considered scummy. That's why I think the answer to the question "lynch a superscummy player with a protown head or two players who are a bit scummy?" is the latter.

And

FoS: UROE

for the no lynch (not just the suggestion of it).