Mini 732: Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Mafia (Game Over!)

[hasdgfas]

---

I decided to be a bodyguard for porochaz last night. Since he's one of the more experienced players I figured he'd be a target.

I find it interesting that hasdgfas would bodyguard a player based solely on the player being more experienced and not apply his ability to protecting a player with a more helpful night action such as the doctor or the jail keeper?

Perhaps hasdgfas and Porochaz could be two of the scum players? There could be some logic to having Porochaz make the scum night choice while hasdgfas bodyguards him to protect Porochaz from potentially being offed by the serial killer or the vigilante.

Honestly, in a Smalltown, I don't care about their roles, especially night 0. I'm going to choose someone who I think will be targeted for death because they could be very helpful for the town, even more so than their night action.
If I had to choose between a vanilla-townie Glork and a kill-immune-vigilante-cop-doctor Natirasha, I'm going to choose to bodyguard Glork because he's far more useful, even without having a power role.

I find it very interesting that you don't simply ask me why I would choose to protect an experienced player over someone with a more useful action, but instead you jump into saying that we could be scum together.
Why is this?

[Megatheory]

Unvote

It was worth a shot. At the very least, someone could have blinked and said something telling, but I didn't see anything. Moving on...

Vote TonyMontana

Tony sending in the kill and then being jailkept is the best theory going so far. The scum would almost certainly have one of their non-nightchoice buddies send in the kill. I don't see anything to indicate who would have tried to nightkill someone who was protected, or that someone is lying.

Danchaofan has suggested pursuing this theory, Malyss has speculated on it, and I know others have thought about it. What are you waiting for? Do you need permission first?

[Danchaofan]

No, I'm not waiting for permission. I don't think it is likely that Tony was targeted, but I do think there is a fair chance that I was targeted and protected by Rishi.

[Malyss]

I find it very interesting that you don't simply ask me why I would choose to protect an experienced player over someone with a more useful action, but instead you jump into saying that we could be scum together.
Why is this?

It probably would have been better to phrase my theorizations into a question or questions. Coming up with and asking questions are some of my weak spots. I tend to have a somewhat observational manner and tend to find it difficult to come up with questions.

I do appreciate that you endeavored to address the concerns that I brought up.

---

Danchaofan has suggested pursuing this theory, Malyss has speculated on it, and I know others have thought about it. What are you waiting for? Do you need permission first?

I do not feel the need to wait for permission before pursuing this. I have just been puzzling and eventually came up with another potential theory that I wanted to explore before committing to voting.

What is your rush? What do you think about the other possible theory that I brought up in post 124?

[Rishi]

Honestly, in a Smalltown, I don't care about their roles, especially night 0. I'm going to choose someone who I think will be targeted for death because they could be very helpful for the town, even more so than their night action.
If I had to choose between a vanilla-townie Glork and a kill-immune-vigilante-cop-doctor Natirasha, I'm going to choose to bodyguard Glork because he's far more useful, even without having a power role.

Umm, just because Natirasha claimed that role on Page 1 doesn't mean it's true. Okay, we shouldn't pick on players who aren't here.

I'm just wondering, though, if that's the right thing to do. I think Smalltown games are won and lost as much in the night phase as in the day phase. It is also really difficult to scumhunt sometimes, because it's fairly easy for someone to look town when discussing theory.

Also, for those of you playing along at home, I'd like to point out that this was the first post by H-cow that was more than a couple sentences. Glad you're coming out of your shell.

[hasdgfas]

I'm just wondering, though, if that's the right thing to do. I think Smalltown games are won and lost as much in the night phase as in the day phase. It is also really difficult to scumhunt sometimes, because it's fairly easy for someone to look town when discussing theory.

Somewhat, but, I mean, we still have to lynch scum, so we have to pay attention to the day phase and scumhunt.

Also, for those of you playing along at home, I'd like to point out that this was the first post by H-cow that was more than a couple sentences. Glad you're coming out of your shell.

And your point is?

[Megatheory]

What is your rush? What do you think about the other possible theory that I brought up in post 124?

There has been little if any actual scumhunting so far. Theories have been thrown out without anyone really pursuing them much. I'm getting more aggressive so the theory talk can be supplemented by actually playing Mafia.

And which theory are you asking me about? There are several in that post.

[Megatheory]

Awww, damnit. Why didn't I preview? I was quoting Malyss.

[TonyMontana]

Possible reasons for lack of kill:

I sent the kill.

(Nope)

Mafia tried to kill me.

(Highly unlikely)

Megatheory targeted Malyss

(Would Mafia pass up a doublekill on N0?)

Rishi protected Dan

(Most likely, IMO)

Mafia pass up kill, to have us chasing this very dilemma.

(Again, unlikely N0 strategy)

I was alittle put off by Dan's choice of me. Not only am I the last guy to need protection, but I obviously can't confirm a block. However, I can understand the incentive to roleblock me, as I would be the obvious killer in a Mafia. Besides, if Dan is mafia, then Rishi has to be too, and I don't see it.

I don't like hasdgfas willingness to catch a bullet for a doublevoter. You say you suspected he would be a target for being a good player, and later added that you wanted him around because he is a good player.
Is he really good enough to die for?
I'm not that familiar with his work, is he really renowned enough to make him a target in a smalltown, regardless of power?
And you talk highly of his ability to catch scum, but the chance of him being scum doesn't seem to cross your mind.

Allright, bedtime.
Since there's no abundance of votes, and I feel I'll be in good company:

vote:hasdgfas

[Gorrad]

Hey guys! Just checking in to say that I'm V/LA until 5:00 tomorrow. I'll be at the Austin chapter of the Global Game Jam- look for me on Team Wark (#4) by following the link in my sig. We've got a live feed. I'm the one with glasses and dice for earrings.

[Porochaz]

Just to let you know where I stand on the maker of eggnogfas, I go on a sliding scale, Its usefullness of the player x the role they have. In short I dont know what to think of hasgcow but im flattered anyway.

[Malyss]

And which theory are you asking me about? There are several in that post.

Sorry, I meant this idea:

I find it interesting that hasdgfas would bodyguard a player based solely on the player being more experienced and not apply his ability to protecting a player with a more helpful night action such as the doctor or the jail keeper?

Perhaps hasdgfas and Porochaz could be two of the scum players? There could be some logic to having Porochaz make the scum night choice while hasdgfas bodyguards him to protect Porochaz from potentially being offed by the serial killer or the vigilante.

I'm still learning some of the intricacies of the game and this may be a stupid question. Theoretically speaking, if the scum player who is sending in the scum team's kill action to the mod is killed during the night, would the scum team's kill still go through?

[hasdgfas]

I don't like hasdgfas willingness to catch a bullet for a doublevoter. You say you suspected he would be a target for being a good player, and later added that you wanted him around because he is a good player.
Is he really good enough to die for?

I'd trust him if town more than some people with "better roles". Also, note that I didn't say "good", I said "experienced". Almost the same thing, but not quite.
I also find it silly that people are bringing up the fact that he's a doublevoter. I DO NOT CARE WHAT HIS ROLE IS. I WOULD RATHER HE BE ALIVE TODAY THAN SOME PEOPLE WITH "better roles".
What is scummy about that?

I'm not that familiar with his work, is he really renowned enough to make him a target in a smalltown, regardless of power?
And you talk highly of his ability to catch scum, but the chance of him being scum doesn't seem to cross your mind.

Really? Because of course I think he could be scum. I just thought that protecting him would be a better choice than some other people.

Since there's no abundance of votes, and I feel I'll be in good company:

vote:hasdgfas

I like the addendum at the end, like voting for me is all right because you think other people will vote for me.
Plus, I don't understand why you think I'm scummy.

[TonyMontana]

Since there's no abundance of votes, and I feel I'll be in good company:

vote:hasdgfas

I like the addendum at the end, like voting for me is all right because you think other people will vote for me.

No, I was referring to the fact that rishi had a vote on you.

[Megatheory]

I find it interesting that hasdgfas would bodyguard a player based solely on the player being more experienced and not apply his ability to protecting a player with a more helpful night action such as the doctor or the jail keeper?

Perhaps hasdgfas and Porochaz could be two of the scum players? There could be some logic to having Porochaz make the scum night choice while hasdgfas bodyguards him to protect Porochaz from potentially being offed by the serial killer or the vigilante.

I'm still learning some of the intricacies of the game and this may be a stupid question. Theoretically speaking, if the scum player who is sending in the scum team's kill action to the mod is killed during the night, would the scum team's kill still go through?

Using a power on a player based on their experience is just as valid as using a power based on a player's role, especially in a game where (almost) everyone has a powerrole and any of those roles could be anit-town. Nothing suspicious about that.

Now, if hasdgfas and Porochaz were scum together, they don't gain anything if one bodygaurds the other. If one scum is targeted, you still wind up with a dead scum. In fact, a scum bodyguard should not use his power at all. If they were scum together, it would be very risky to claim one protected the other as that would be evidence for a link between them.

So I don't think either of them is scum unless hasdgfas is lying.

[Plum]

I don't like hasdgfas willingness to catch a bullet for a doublevoter. You say you suspected he would be a target for being a good player, and later added that you wanted him around because he is a good player.
Is he really good enough to die for?

I'd trust him if town more than some people with "better roles". Also, note that I didn't say "good", I said "experienced". Almost the same thing, but not quite.
I also find it silly that people are bringing up the fact that he's a doublevoter. I DO NOT CARE WHAT HIS ROLE IS. I WOULD RATHER HE BE ALIVE TODAY THAN SOME PEOPLE WITH "better roles".
What is scummy about that?

Nothing. Howerver, on a slightly different note, unless I recall incorrectly, you have the choice to

not

take the bullet for someone N0. Hypothesize that you're town. You know Porochaz is a pretty good player and someone you'd want to have around, assuming he's a Townie. From your perspective, he has a %73 or so chance of being Town, however, while you know you're %100 likely to be Town. You only have an effect if Porochaz is targeted to be killed. You are, in that situation, sacrificing a %100 certain Townie for someone with a lower chance at actually being Town N0 (albeit a player who's a useful Townie), when you have no info beyond the above. Maybe a bad choice.

But I agree with Mega that the circumstances are only such that

Cow is scum ---> something may possibly be up with Porochaz, no guarantees.

Just like Rishi is scum ---> DCF may be scum, no actual guarantees.

However, I've been thinking a little. Mostly about how useful the Cumulative Tracker role would be if it didn't already belong to dead scum. It's a pretty nice investigation tool to catch players in lies, which leads to scum found, etc. So - Gorrad can take over any role - etc. He could hold out until something with even more potential usefulness showed up, or theoretically he could choose to take over Cumulative Tracker earlier, i.e. now/Day 1. With a bit of arrangement, Rishi could even investigate him tonight (the logistics might want a little teasing out first, as I have only a pretty rough sketch in front of me) to confirm that he's Town etc. Step n, PROFIT? Thougts, things I stupidly haven't considered? Please mention them.

[Rishi]

Also, for those of you playing along at home, I'd like to point out that this was the first post by H-cow that was more than a couple sentences. Glad you're coming out of your shell.

And your point is?

My point is that you're posting a lot but not saying much. It seems like you're being evasive, to some degree.

Unvote

(Random vote - forgot it was there.)

[Danchaofan]

we could always stick our watcher on rishi and confirm gorrad for cumulative tracker. From N0 events I'm willing to give +town points to both watcher and weak doc so have them confirm gorrad and we'll have effectively 3 town investigative roles.

Also given N0 events I think we say it's reasonably unlikely that me, rishi, fuzzy, has, and porochaz- it's bad for town to immediately discount the possibility as among the any of these groups could have taken a wifomic approach to their night actions. Because of the potential usefulness of gorrad and our ability to control mega's kill I think they should also be taken off the lynch list.

That leaves us with a lynch list of plum, ruck, malyss, and tony...

[Malyss]

Using a power on a player based on their experience is just as valid as using a power based on a player's role, especially in a game where (almost) everyone has a powerrole and any of those roles could be anit-town. Nothing suspicious about that.

Now, if hasdgfas and Porochaz were scum together, they don't gain anything if one bodygaurds the other. If one scum is targeted, you still wind up with a dead scum. In fact, a scum bodyguard should not use his power at all. If they were scum together, it would be very risky to claim one protected the other as that would be evidence for a link between them.

So I don't think either of them is scum unless hasdgfas is lying.

That sounds fair enough. While looking at the different power roles, I was trying to figure out possible strategic ways in which they could be used.

[Master Ruck]

we could always stick our watcher on rishi and confirm gorrad for cumulative tracker. From N0 events I'm willing to give +town points to both watcher and weak doc so have them confirm gorrad and we'll have effectively 3 town investigative roles.

Also given N0 events I think we say it's reasonably unlikely that me, rishi, fuzzy, has, and porochaz- it's bad for town to immediately discount the possibility as among the any of these groups could have taken a wifomic approach to their night actions.

Because of the potential usefulness of gorrad and our ability to control mega's kill I think they should also be taken off the lynch list.

That leaves us with a lynch list of plum, ruck, malyss, and tony...

Can you explain that middle part a bit better as I keep getting lost when trying to understand it. As for your 4 possible lynches, I would pick Tony as he is the one who gives town the least to lose. Granted, me, Plum, and malyss don't add all that much either in terms of our role but Tony adds nothing so he is the safe lynch. Though, that is if we want to go for a safe lynch on D1 or if we want to search a bit more for some scum tells.

[hasdgfas]

we could always stick our watcher on rishi and confirm gorrad for cumulative tracker. From N0 events I'm willing to give +town points to both watcher and weak doc so have them confirm gorrad and we'll have effectively 3 town investigative roles.

Also given N0 events I think we say it's reasonably unlikely that me, rishi, fuzzy, has, and porochaz- it's bad for town to immediately discount the possibility as among the any of these groups could have taken a wifomic approach to their night actions. Because of the potential usefulness of gorrad and our ability to control mega's kill I think they should also be taken off the lynch list.

That leaves us with a lynch list of plum, ruck, malyss, and tony...

Is there a reason you're giving us a 4-person list?
I don't understand that, are you just telling us to ignore everything that the other 7 do?

[TonyMontana]

Also given N0 events I think we say it's reasonably unlikely that me, rishi, fuzzy, has, and porochaz- it's bad for town to immediately discount the possibility as among the any of these groups could have taken a wifomic approach to their night actions..

I accidentally a lynch.

Can you please re-write this when you're not stonecold drunk?

[Porochaz]

Also given N0 events I think we say it's reasonably unlikely that me, rishi, fuzzy, has, and porochaz- it's bad for town to immediately discount the possibility as among the any of these groups could have taken a wifomic approach to their night actions..

I accidentally a lynch.

Can you please re-write this when you're not stonecold drunk?

Your going to have a problem this game, and what I write when Im drunk wont be repeated if it makes a senbelence of sense.

And

unvote vote Rishi

auto vote for taking off the random vote. Why? There wasnt a danger of a lynch. By taking off the random vote it nullifies its usage. Making lots of fail.

[Danchaofan]

Also given N0 events I think we can say it's reasonably unlikely that me, rishi, fuzzy, has, and porochaz is scum- it's bad for town to immediately discount the possibility as among any of these groups the people involved could have taken a wifomic approach to their night actions.

[TonyMontana]

Your going to have a problem this game, and what I write when Im drunk wont be repeated if it makes a senbelence of sense.

Anti-town. Also, senbelence?