Mini 734 - GrimMafia - OVER

[Ectomancer]

Zero, the first time you asked that question it was page 4. Had the mod put a deadline after page 1 and we only had 1 post, and that was to vote, I would have lynched Zachrulez and been confident that I had made much better than a random vote, and if the meta proves true I would have been right. That was after he made the very first post of the game ok? By page 4 there are so many things said that it is like a word search puzzle. The more you look, the more you find.

So, its a deadline, you only have 1 post and the day ends. Who are you lynching Zero, and why?

[Grimmy]

Updated current vote count

SPRINGLULLABY - (1 OF 7)

Zephear

ECTOMANCER (3 of 7)

Springlullaby
Nuwen

SIPYLUS (2 OF 7)

Skillit
Perardua

SKILLIT(1 OF 7)

Ectomancer

Zerofear (5 of 7)

JereIC
Zwet...
Beyond B.
Zach...
Sipylus


Day ends sometime on Monday, and I wont be around until then. I will post a request to replace Perardua, and i hope the best for him and his GF.
Grimmy

[Ectomancer]

Day ends sometime on Monday

Whaaat? That's our warning about a deadline? Non-negotiable even? Holy crap! Favor scum much??

[springlullaby]

Skillit, Nuwen, what do you think of the game?

Right now I have JereIC down as scum and Zero down as crapshoot.

[Nuwen]

Nuwen, what do you think of the game?

I think that I requested to be replaced approximately a week ago after informing Grimmy that I wouldn't have time to play this game out fully until early/mid February.

[zwetschenwasser]

Monday! AIIIEEEEGH!!!! Zero, claim now. You're posting garbage, acting antitown, actively lurking, and asking a question that has been more than clarified. The answer as to what we look for in a lynch is exactly your behavior. I'm more than willing to lynch you for your short temper if anyone even hints at suspecting you and I'm very unsatisfied with your "defense"

[Grimmy]

quick notes:

Deadline is extended an extra week.

Not cause of the vetching that has been going on, but because Perardua has a replacement and he will need time to catch up and get into the game.

If a further extension is needed after that, I will agree to it if 3/4 of the surviving layers agree to it.

Grimmy

[Grimmy]

Wolfblitzer has been kind enough to fill in for our friend Perardua in this game.

Per, if you check in, we are all hoping the best for ya.

Grimmy
thanks Wolfy

[WolfBlitzer]

Heya.

Unvote

, since I haven't read the game yet, but since there's a deadline looming, I'll get a recap post up quickly.

[zwetschenwasser]

Hey! I'm you in another game I'm playing, Wolf! *U.S. Election Mafia* cough**

[WolfBlitzer]

Heh. 'kay. since a deadline is near, I feel that my time would be best spent by typing out my best suspect, and then pointing out things that I find interesting.

Main Suspect: Zer0ph34r

Zero's first real post is this-

Vote: springlullaby

Because of eenie-meenie-minie-moe.

Which is, you know, meh, random voting.

He comes back and says this-

Well, that was random, but I guess we just have to vote again. I don't think he was trying to say we did something wrong which sucks. But I'll stick with my

vote: springlullaby

He has no comment on why he's still voting; if he feels that there's any content to explore in the vote, if he's just continuing his random vote, or if he has any comment on Ecto's behavior thus far.

You think I'm cute? Sweeeeeet! Anyway I ain't got much to say, I think we all in a sense based our original votes off of something of no importance.

Here he dismisses all the content that has occurred thus far. One thing to note is that he posted several times between this and his last post, but none of them were in any way resembling content.

Then Zero outright lurks for 2 days, and comes back with this beauty.

Well, Sipylus, what the hell do you want me to say, what could be meaningful at this point in the game? Not much if anything.

At this point, there were over 3 pages of discussion. Zero doesn't even explain what's happened in a way that would demonstrate that there isn't much to comment on. (IE- if he feels that thus far nobody is scummy, he should be forced to explain why.)

Another day passes, and zero makes another post, basicially repeating his assessment. He still doesn't change his initial vote, or explain if he has any suspicions. At this point, we're at Page 5.

Another 2 days pass, and zero posts yet again, also on Page 5.

Zwet, how am I lurking? I asked a serious question that you can't seem to answer when you responded like it was such any easy question, if anything, you would be the lurker. How am I lurking? By asking a serious question?

At this point, Zero has made 11 posts, counting this one. However, if you subtract the posts that repeat already stated sentiments and posts that provide no content, we're at around 4. Meanwhile, Zwet has made 10 posts. So even if we assumed that all the posts that Zero made provided content, post-wise, Zwet is posting at around the same rate that Zero is.

Regardless, none of Zwet's posts solely repeat previously stated sentiments, and in many of them he states opinions, so overall this accusation seems extremely hypocritical.

His next two posts are simply pushing Zwet to answer his question. No suspicions, no votes.

He then makes this post,

Beyond, you think I planned Spring to be suspicious? How would I do that? My first post was a vote for him and then he was thought of as suspicious.

Yet you continued to keep your vote on him without explaining why you are continuing to do so. It was a random vote, no? If spring is your main suspect ATM, explain why. If not, why is your vote still on them?

And as for the question thing, it wasn't directed towards anyone specific, just ANYONE. I would like to know what info we could've gone on at the time I posted it to lynch someone.

This seems to contradict the TWO TIMES you asked Zwet to answer the question in the post I last quoted. Besides Zwet, this is extremely simple stuff. I'd think that you would had picked this kind of thing up by now.
In fact, zach (whose case you don't even bother to respond to, despite the fact that you do respond to BB), points out several things that you could discuss.

He again presses Zwet to answer the question that in his previous post he denies he specifically asked for Zwet.

Alright, two things;

1: I will consider changing my vote since people obviously have a problem with me casting a random vote.

It's not that people have a problem with you "casting a random vote", that's a strawman. The problem is that you have yet to switch that vote, IMO.

2: Everyone keeps saying that I just keep posting useless info as a way to look like I am being helpful. I'm not! I just find it odd that NO ONE has yet to answer my damn question, they just keep saying that I'm posting useless info, and maybe it is, but why can't ANYONE answer it?! 1 Person just answer and it will be done with!

The problem is that your question is something that should be dealt with in newbie games, not in Little Italy. Again, zach posted a good list of information that had been availible, that was ON THE SAME PAGE AS THIS POST. (Post #126, for the record.).

Repeats #2. YET AGAIN. It's amazing that zero appears to have absolutely no opinion about any of the players in this game. Amazing, and very very scummy.

And I do have opinions of people, Sipylus, just no real reason to lynch anyone.

Voting does not equate to lynching Zero. At least state where your suspicions lie, and what these opinions are.

Zero still having his vote on lullaby, a user unlikely to get lynched this close to the deadline, feels extremely scummy. In addition, this is a lynch that most seem to have provdied some kind of opinion on, which is optimal for a D1 lynch.

Wondering if Zero is always like this- I decided to see if there were any completed games I could meta him with. I found one- Newbie 699. Zero was town and was lynched D1. Although Zero also voted one person that claim, he clearly explained why he suspected that person, posted daily, and seemed to provide a good deal more content there than he did here. I feel that combined, all this warrants a

Vote: Zer0ph34r

HOWEVER: ZERO SHOULD NOT BE LYNCHED YET. I WANT A ROLECLAIM AND A DEFENSE (IF POSSIBLE), BEFORE THIS OCCURS. Townies with their votes not only Zero should definately not vote him until he has given some semblance of a claim and response to this case.

Meanwhile, there are other issues I would like responses to. I will post them in somewhat-chronological order.

It feels like Sipy, Pablo, and Skillet have been quiet lately, and would like their opinions on issues, especially with the deadline closing in. This is especially relevant to Sipy, who seems to have made one in-game post thus far, and it was over a week ago. A prod would definately be warranted at this stage. This is true for Skillet as well. (

Mod, Can you please prod Sipylus and Skillet?

Ecto, after the votes were reset, you stated in Post #17 that your vote was not random, but you waited until Post #22, after Jere had voted for Sipy, for you to do so. Was there any reason for this?

Although Nuwen has requested replacement, I still find it interesting that Nuwen felt that a vote on Ecto simply due to his non-random vote on zach was warranted, given that the person you quoted, Beyond_Birthday, didn't seem to.

I dislike JereIC's #34. Considering that you were just putting spring at L-3, there would have to be at least a couple townies jumping on to an extremely early wagon, in order to lynch Spring. That is your best-case scenario. And if there were scum on that wagon, which feels like a much more likely explanation, they would most likely recieve scrutiny for what they did. However, it feels like you are excusing a potential quicklynch later on in #107, by saying that it is far more likely that the instigators are reckless townies than scum.

In fact, that seems to encourage scum to quicklynch, as they can then pull a "reckless townie" card when questioned about it. If you wish to avoid quicklynches, why give scum an excuse to do so? I may do a detailed meta later on to see if his playstyle explanation has merit.

Quick Comment on #60- I agree that one person should not have the right to say when the random stage ends, but I feel that the RVS has indeed ended when content has started to have been provided, and Ecto's vote was something worthy of commenting on, which could therefore provide information. So Ecto's grilling of Skillet regarding why he made his RV isn't particularly anti-town.

#73- Like light-kun, Per is clearly a vollkan alt.

#78- This is rather logical, but it also feels like an excuse for lurking more than anything "It's ok that I'm doing it, because others are too!"

#129- I'm not sure why exactly you feel that a point-system isn't effective. The tool doesn't matter as much as the person who uses. Also, I'd disagree that the people who are in the center of attention are scummy, in that scum don't like to draw attention to themselves. However, it feels like while Spring has been trying to draw attention and reactions through their actions, zero was utterly unintentional. If you are scum, this could be a cute piece of misdirection, or could be distancing from a buddy.

BB, in #121 and #123, you classified zero's actions as anti-town, but not scummy. What exactly caused you to change to a vote in #127, after reading zach's case?

JereIC's #138 in regards to Spring feels like craplogic IMO. What makes you believe that spring was attempting to speedlynch Ecto? And what makes you think the "quicklynches are good for the town" piece was created ahead of time?

[springlullaby]

It is a terrible feeling when people agrees with you and you are distrusting because of the fear of being played.

Zero, you should claim now.

[Pablo Molinero]

In regards to Zero's play as a whole, for him to be scum, it just dosen't feel... right. Just out of general knowedge of play, it dosen't seem to me that scum would sit there and flounder over nothing, asking what we should go off of as more people slowly pile on the votes. Wouldn't mafia at least take a shot at someone to deflect suspision, no matter how misguided or insane? With Zero there's none of that and he's the only real target at this point. While his 'what do we do' questions are useless at best and anti-town at worst, that still dosen't mean he's scum. Hell, it may be the unpopular line of thinking right now, but put me in the camp that thinks Zero is town.

Now, looking at the people trying to pick him off: zwet has been posting one/two liners digging at Zero's play and not much else. Scum coasting on the anti-Zero wave? Possibly.

JereIC has hit a nerve with a few people, but looking at his most recent posts, something stood out: he says that using Zero as scum, "I think we'll be able to use that to implicate other players as scum" (or something like that). It's full of confidence, but if he's wrong, we'll have nothing to go off of to make said implications. Now, unless he's bussing on day one to set up lynches later (seems very unlikely), it dosen't seem to me that scum would make that assumption. ...did that make sense to anyone?

Beyond looks good so far and has hit looked quite pro town so far.

Zach... I dunno. Neutral at this point, will have to look deeper later.

Sipylus has 2 posts. Prodzorz?

Hell, let's get a vote out there:

Vote: zwetschenwasser

[WolfBlitzer]

In regards to Zero's play as a whole, for him to be scum, it just dosen't feel... right. Just out of general knowedge of play, it dosen't seem to me that scum would sit there and flounder over nothing, asking what we should go off of as more people slowly pile on the votes. Wouldn't mafia at least take a shot at someone to deflect suspision, no matter how misguided or insane? With Zero there's none of that and he's the only real target at this point. While his 'what do we do' questions are useless at best and anti-town at worst, that still dosen't mean he's scum. Hell, it may be the unpopular line of thinking right now, but put me in the camp that thinks Zero is town.

I can see your point, but the thing is that I can also see scum trying to dismiss all the content thus far, as Zero has done, in order to avoid being forced to contribute and potentially reveal scumlinks. Then, when the player gets called out for this behavior, they get flustered and start bumbling, as zero seems to be doing. And then, when they can't seem to get the suspicion to stop, just slip off the radar and hope that suspicion goes away, at least for a while. Also, what do you think about the Meta difference?

Now, looking at the people trying to pick him off: zwet has been posting one/two liners digging at Zero's play and not much else. Scum coasting on the anti-Zero wave? Possibly.

I don't believe that length is particularly relevant to the pro-townness of a player. It more comes down to the amount of content provided. And zwet, short ports non-the-less, has provided a good deal of content thus far. My only complaint is that he doesn't seem to back up this content with solid data, which I would prefer.

I would like those with votes on non-wagons (Ecto, Zero, and now Pablo), to explain in detail why these would be better lynches than the wagon (IE- More likely to hit scum, either immediately or down the road) or even semi-wagons (Although some clarification on those would be nice too), already set up, considering that although the deadline is still a few days away, this game seems to be begging for some debate and analysis.

[JereIC]

JereIC's #138 in regards to Spring feels like craplogic IMO. What makes you believe that spring was attempting to speedlynch Ecto? And what makes you think the "quicklynches are good for the town" piece was created ahead of time?

It's not really deductive logic, and I apologize for not making that clearer. I'm making up lots of theories when I read what other folks have to say and seeing which ones help explain their behavior. In this case, I thought it was odd that Spring had a argument about how speedlynches are good for town, and it occurred to me that she had been third on a wagon against Ectomancer, so maybe she had thought up the theory when she was on that wagon to try to get herself out of trouble afterward.

JereIC has hit a nerve with a few people, but looking at his most recent posts, something stood out: he says that using Zero as scum, "I think we'll be able to use that to implicate other players as scum" (or something like that). It's full of confidence, but if he's wrong, we'll have nothing to go off of to make said implications. Now, unless he's bussing on day one to set up lynches later (seems very unlikely), it dosen't seem to me that scum would make that assumption. ...did that make sense to anyone?

Honestly, the only person I think he can implicate now is Spring. Mostly thinking of how he voted for her at the random stage, how she hasn't found him acting weird, and how she seems to be helping him out now. If he's scum, I think all that indicates she's scum too. If not, she still may be scum, but we can have a lot more fruitful day tomorrow.

[Grimmy]

Good enough.

In the quiet village of Grimm, there have been many warnings of bad times to come. Milk has gone sour before the expriation date. The weather has played havok with your sattelite reception. All of your letters to that old uncle out of town who always sends you a sweet little birthday card with a dollar in it have come back unmailed. (seriously? A dollar? what are you, three?). Oh. and the Mayor of your town, the beloved, handsome, and well respected Mr. Grimmspoon was found in the center of town, torn to bloodless peices. The only signs of blood were on the wall in the town square which only said: "You will all be next"

So now we officallt reset the votes and start the game.
Deadline is tentatively set for two weeks from today. (2-2-09)

Please, keep it civil while you are trying to kill each other. Thanks

Grimmy

quoted from post 16, simply to bust Ecto's chops


Seriously though, the deadlines are very flexible, all I ask is that when it is requested, I want the majority of players (3/4) of you to agree. Im not a vengeful or a strict mod.

Work with me people....ENUNCIATE!!!

This game is for fun purposes only, and any information obtained will be used for this purpose. and it may be recorded for training porpoises, because fishies need to know how to use the internet too!

Grimmy
has lost his mind and is renting out the free space

[Grimmy]

Heya.

Unvote

, since I haven't read the game yet, but since there's a deadline looming, I'll get a recap post up quickly.

again, take your time. You got at LEAST another week to look things over. If you need more time, just ask

[Grimmy]

Prods Sent to Sipylus and Skillit

-----------------
A formal Invitation to the Grimmafia Ball:

Dear Sipylus/Skillit. You presence has been requested in the Grimmafia thread, and we really hoe you can attend. Please RSVP in the thread when you can. Thank you.

Grimmoderator.

(the other gamers asked to prod you, so here it is)

[Skillit]

Sorry that i have been such a tool, this legislative session is particularly crazy with the budget and everything and ive just been comin up short on time, be back with a presence on saturday

[Ectomancer]

Ecto, after the votes were reset, you stated in Post #17 that your vote was not random, but you waited until Post #22, after Jere had voted for Sipy, for you to do so. Was there any reason for this?

I missed the part in post #16 where the mod said the votes were reset, which wasn't pointed out to me until post #18 by Zach, hence, I re-voted in post #22. I realize you are reading quickly in order to catch up, but when re-reading it myself, that seemed pretty self-evident.

[Ectomancer]

Apparently I miss a lot of things that the mod says. I've been told that I have a problem with authority

Good enough.

In the quiet village of Grimm, there have been many warnings of bad times to come. Milk has gone sour before the expriation date. The weather has played havok with your sattelite reception. All of your letters to that old uncle out of town who always sends you a sweet little birthday card with a dollar in it have come back unmailed. (seriously? A dollar? what are you, three?). Oh. and the Mayor of your town, the beloved, handsome, and well respected Mr. Grimmspoon was found in the center of town, torn to bloodless peices. The only signs of blood were on the wall in the town square which only said: "You will all be next"

So now we officallt reset the votes and start the game.
Deadline is tentatively set for two weeks from today. (2-2-09)

Please, keep it civil while you are trying to kill each other. Thanks

Grimmy

quoted from post 16, simply to bust Ecto's chops

[WolfBlitzer]

Ecto, after the votes were reset, you stated in Post #17 that your vote was not random, but you waited until Post #22, after Jere had voted for Sipy, for you to do so. Was there any reason for this?

I missed the part in post #16 where the mod said the votes were reset, which wasn't pointed out to me until post #18 by Zach, hence, I re-voted in post #22. I realize you are reading quickly in order to catch up, but when re-reading it myself, that seemed pretty self-evident.

Hmm. Although your explanation is adequate, I don't particularly consider it self-evident that you missed, aside from the flavor, one of the key parts to that post. It was simply something I found curious, not particularly scummy, so why the need to end the post rather defensively? I would also still like you to explain the vote for Skillet, now that he has decided to make his return.

[Beyond_Birthday]

BB, in #121 and #123, you classified zero's actions as anti-town, but not scummy. What exactly caused you to change to a vote in #127, after reading zach's case?

Zach pointed out (and led to the thought process of ~) Scum wouldn't try and validate their votes or would do so using specious if not untrue reasoning. Hence, I decided he was scummy enough to warrant my vote. Additionally, it is only a matter of time before an overload of scumminess reaches a high enough percentage that I vote him. So his two posts between them don't help his case. I also assumed that, given my vote, would cause pressure and lead to, hopefully, a defense or more active play. However, this failed, which gives post event reasons for my vote, validating it to remain on Zero.


"I can see your point, but the thing is that I can also see scum trying to dismiss all the content thus far, as Zero has done, in order to avoid being forced to contribute and potentially reveal scumlinks. Then, when the player gets called out for this behavior, they get flustered and start bumbling, as zero seems to be doing. And then, when they can't seem to get the suspicion to stop, just slip off the radar and hope that suspicion goes away, at least for a while. Also, what do you think about the Meta difference? "
~Wolfblitzer

Agreed.

Sorry that i have been such a tool, this legislative session is particularly crazy with the budget and everything and ive just been comin up short on time, be back with a presence on saturday

I beg your pardon, but "legislation?" Are you in congress or is this supposed to indicate something else?

[zwetschenwasser]

Maybe he's President Obama, BB. Pablo, I don't quite follow you when you say I'm scum coasting. I've provided my feelings on major players, and am trying to be objective and had good reasons for voting Zero. I understand your reluctance at accepting someone with short posts, but I prefer to not post seventeen feet of reads when I can glean my own information from the thread and put it into practice with a concisely explained vote that others can back with concrete info later. That's not scummy, it's just my playstyle. Wolf can check my meta. Wolf, could you please explain this: 'I would like those with votes on non-wagons (Ecto, Zero, and now Pablo), to explain in detail why these would be better lynches than the wagon (IE- More likely to hit scum, either immediately or down the road) or even semi-wagons (Although some clarification on those would be nice too), already set up, considering that although the deadline is still a few days away, this game seems to be begging for some debate and analysis.'

I don't understand why you added Pablo to your list, or what your list actually means, or your question. You seem quite pro-town, and as I said before, I didn't post my reasons as I knew they would come later.

[WolfBlitzer]

Wolf can check my meta.

I indeed have, and it seems to fit what you're saying, although I don't see any completed games, so I can't be positive that it's regardless of alignment, but due to the fact that in all of your games you seem to play like this in, I'm pretty sure it is.

Wolf, could you please explain this: 'I would like those with votes on non-wagons (Ecto, Zero, and now Pablo), to explain in detail why these would be better lynches than the wagon (IE- More likely to hit scum, either immediately or down the road) or even semi-wagons (Although some clarification on those would be nice too), already set up, considering that although the deadline is still a few days away, this game seems to be begging for some debate and analysis.'

I don't understand why you added Pablo to your list, or what your list actually means, or your question. You seem quite pro-town, and as I said before, I didn't post my reasons as I knew they would come later.

I added Pablo to the list because he voted you, when you had precisely no votes before then. To me, this seemed like bizarre deadline behavior, and therefore would like justification of why Zero, Ecto, and Pablo are making these votes. Zero and Ecto especially.