Mini 733- Congratulations! You are... Mafia (Game Over)

[Isacc]

I would like to post, but alas classes are starting. I will post this evening when I am home again.

[Mirth]

Votecount

Sly - 11 - [Dahill, Elvis, des]
Des - 11 - [Cow, Isacc, Sly]
Kmd - 10 -[Darox, Plum]
Isacc - 1- [Imaginality]
PJ - 1 - [Glork]

Not Voting - 10 - [Caf, Kmd]

Cups of Lemonade Bought: 1
Orange Juice Bought: 1
Hard Cider Bought: 1
Coat Racks Bought: 1

[caf19]

Votecount

Sly - 11 - [Dahill, Elvis, des]
Des - 11 - [Cow, Isacc, Sly]
Kmd - 10 -[Darox, Plum]
Isacc - 1- [Imaginality]
PJ - 1 - [Glork]

Not Voting - 10 - [Caf, Kmd]

Cups of Lemonade Bought: 1
Orange Juice Bought: 1
Hard Cider Bought: 1
Coat Racks Bought: 1

Wow, for once we get an accurate votecount! (in base 2).

No
If I could, I would, how I hate German.

This is the worrying post, expressing quite clearly that Zazie feels unable to post in English at all. The way I see it, if he's telling the truth then the mod's wording about the German PR must be quite vague, because destructor now has way less than half his posts in German. It's no longer possible for the PM to be specific (e.g. 'at least x amount of your posts must be in German').

[Kmd4390]

Amazing, I do a crude translation of 3 posts and seemingly have ran across Zazie and Kmd discussing telling lies, thinking self, and some sort of pre-game knowledge about something.

That sure seems scummy to me. I feel just fine about my vote.

FoS:Kmd

I think more translation is at hand. Can someone tell me what languages Imaginality and (Plum, Glork and Kmd) are/were posting in?

Wow. "lies" refers to my urge to vote her in the RVS. "thinking self" I have no idea what that even means/ "pre-game knowledge" is past games we've played.

Plum and I were speaking Russian.

Anyway, class in 30 Min and more games to catch up on, so if I stay where I am (depends on weather), I'll get to that reread and analysis.

[dahill1]

Who would I vote now? Well I'd almost want to vote Sly, but as weak as his claim looks, my gut tells me he is telling the truth. I'd have been fine voting Coheed, but Cow seems more protown than he did. The only votes I could come up with wouldn't have much backing them (Glork, Darox, Imaginality). I do get a strong town read from dahill, you (Plum), and EK. I keep changing my mind on Isacc. Leaning town right now. Destructor seems like a decent vote, but only because of the English posts which he explained. I'll try and get a better look at this game tomorrow if I end up being able to leave my house tomorrow (snow storm). If not, I'll get to it Thursday.

this post is one big flip-flop
so you believe that sly is the sasquatch? and how exactly does that make him not scum?

[Kmd4390]

I see no reason not to believe he is "sasquatch". His claim seems like an unlynchable claim. If he is unlynchable, I'd expect that either he is town, or there is another killing role in this game, likely SK because unlynchable scum is a broken role for the most part. So basically it comes down to whether or not we believe his claim which seems to be that he is unlynchable. Personally, I believe it. Not that he isn't scummy, but something is just telling me he is town.

[dahill1]

I see no reason not to believe he is "sasquatch". His claim seems like an unlynchable claim. If he is unlynchable, I'd expect that either he is town, or there is another killing role in this game, likely SK because unlynchable scum is a broken role for the most part. So basically it comes down to whether or not we believe his claim which seems to be that he is unlynchable. Personally, I believe it. Not that he isn't scummy, but something is just telling me he is town.

sly even said himself that he doesn't even know if he's unlynchable
everyone but me seems to just be taking that for granted

p.s. keep in mind during role speculation that nothing is going to be normal as this is a bastard game

[elvis_knits]

Um, I think that imaginality was the first one to say that slysly was unlynchable, and then sly just agreed. Sly made vague warnings, but I think imaginality was the first one to say unlynchable.

Here's what slysly was saying before imaginality says unlynchable. He says the town would be wasting it's time trying to lynch him. I took that to mean "Hey, I'm town so trying to lynch me is not productive as it won't kill scum." I guess it could mean literally, that the town will waste it's time as the lynch won't go through, but that is not the way I took it. Usually when people say "the town will waste a lynch on me" it means that they are town, not that they are unlynchable. Amirite?

i want sly to claim because i think he's scum. big difference

State your case on me clearly please. Then the bandwagon can build, you can be proven wrong and the town can quit wasting time on me.

--------------------------------------

Kmd, please work on your quote tags so you won't be misquoting people in the future like you did me in 367.

--------------------------------------

Cow, for the record, your interpretation was correct about kmd's statement about me full claiming. After thinking it over, I think it is best if I don't full claim at this point.

If people want to waste their time trying to lynch me, more power to them.

For: 3 (Dahill, Cow, Kmd)
Against: 3 (Plum, Caf, Sly)

(bolding there was mine)


And then Imaginality comes in and understands sly differently (than me) and says sly must be unlynchable:

If lynching him = no lynch, is not zo bad. Confirms Sly's claim.

Then sly starts saying he's not sure the lynch would go through, but he doesn't know for sure. Which is pretty weird if even sly "doesn't know," but imaginality apparently does.

SlySly, question: What happens if we try to lynch you? Does the day end? Or does the lynch just fail and game continues?

I assume the day would end, but I don't know that for sure. I don't even know for sure that I won't die, but I have never been witness to a successful sasquatch hunt and for that reason, I suspect the lynch will not succeed.

I guess maybe it's possible that imaginality just jumped to the wrong conclusion, but it seems like there is some communication/coaching/hinting going on between these two, or that imaginality knows more than he's saying. Slysly's role seems hard to pin down, and his story is changing... going from vague warnings, to failure to correct people who say he's unlynchable, to saying he's not sure if he can be lynched or not. I do not like it when stories change.

[imaginality]

First, on destructor:

No If I could, I would, how I hate German.

This is the worrying post, expressing quite clearly that Zazie feels unable to post in English at all. The way I see it, if he's telling the truth then the mod's wording about the German PR must be quite vague, because destructor now has way less than half his posts in German. It's no longer possible for the PM to be specific (e.g. 'at least x amount of your posts must be in German').

I agree wif caf, zis post is heart of ze matter.

Question to destructor: did you ask mod for clarrrification on your role restrriction? Or only going by vhat your PM is saying?

Second, my 'foreign language posts' are lyrics to zong. Zong has no game-related meaning. Lyrics only lyrics, notting more. Iss yust nice song.


Now, elvis, let me onzer you:

1.

Um, I think that imaginality was the first one to say that slysly was unlynchable, and then sly just agreed. Sly made vague warnings, but I think imaginality was the first one to say unlynchable.

Actually, as point of technicality, Plum vas firrrst to raise zis possibility (post-355):

So, you name-claim and claim some sort of vague psudeo-invincibility, amirite? To make yourself clear, just how lynchproof are you, as far as you're allowed to say?

2.

Here's what slysly was saying before imaginality says unlynchable. He says the town would be wasting it's time trying to lynch him. I took that to mean "Hey, I'm town so trying to lynch me is not productive as it won't kill scum." I guess it could mean literally, that the town will waste it's time as the lynch won't go through, but that is not the way I took it. Usually when people say "the town will waste a lynch on me" it means that they are town, not that they are unlynchable. Amirite?

I zuyyest you rread SlySly's claim again (post 352).

I am a sasquatch. I can't go into detail about my role but I see it as pretty much of a waste of time trying to lynch me as the odds of catching and/or killing a sasquatch are very slim. Just think about it, have you ever actually seen a sasquatch or the remains of one? I am town and fearless

In vhat vay is that not hinting at being unlynchable? Please readingk this in particular: "a waste of time trying to lynch me

as the odds of catching and/or killing a sasquatch are very slim

" -

not

"a waste of time trying to lynch me because I am town". No, zis is very clear sayingk it is time-vaste

because

he is zazqvatch (if he is) - i.e. it von't vork for role reasons.

3.

And then Imaginality comes in and understands sly differently (than me) and says sly must be unlynchable:

If lynching him = no lynch, is not zo bad. Confirms Sly's claim.

In vhat vorld does 'if' equal 'must'? The zentence beforre zat one makes it clear I don't know eef Sly unlynchable is or if he lying, yes?

One thought, only zemi-zerious musing - ve could call SlySly's bluff, no? If lynching him = no lynch, is not zo bad. Confirms Sly's claim.

(Yes I assumed

eef

he telling truth, he unlynchable, I assume zis because of his claim, see 2.)

4.

Then sly starts saying he's not sure the lynch would go through, but he doesn't know for sure. Which is pretty weird if even sly "doesn't know," but imaginality apparently does.

Again, I did not (and do not) know. My assumption is lynching him vill fail for reasons related to his role,

eef he is tellingk truthful about hiss role

. I base zis on his claim (see 2).

5.

I guess maybe it's possible that imaginality just jumped to the wrong conclusion, but it seems like there is some communication/coaching/hinting going on between these two, or that imaginality knows more than he's saying. Slysly's role seems hard to pin down, and his story is changing... going from vague warnings, to failure to correct people who say he's unlynchable, to saying he's not sure if he can be lynched or not. I do not like it when stories change.

I agree wif last two zentences.

Here iss how I see it. SlySly initially rrezponds to my idea as follows:

A

As long as the town searches for other scum before my lynch attempt, I am onboard with this plan. Although, finding scum to lynch would be a better plan, especially if we expose more than one.

But vhen others (Plum, Glork) also show they tempted to test him by lynchink him, and he zees it iss real pozzibility, he has to backtrack:

B

I assume the day would end, but I don't know that for sure. I don't even know for sure that I won't die, but I have never been witness to a successful sasquatch hunt and for that reason, I suspect the lynch will not succeed.

If he really not know if he lynchable or not, vhy vould he be okay vif being lynched as a test? Either he idiot or haf balls of zteel. I find hiss vagueness/uncertainty interestink contrrast wif zis post of his:

C

You specifically mentioned how your question to me was related to your own role. Your own role is meant to have an ability that is extremely useful - some sort of invulnerability or something.

Or something would be the better descriptor. I cannot elaborate on this without risk of modkill.

Here it zeems he knows vhy he could be safe from lynch, more than yust 'assumption' as he describes it at ozzer times.

SlySly's attempt to explain his posts:

D

I think spending this day on others is the best plan. The only reason I would be onboard with imaginality's plan is because if my suspicion about one of my abilities as a sasquatch is correct, the results would somewhat prove my suspicion. I don't know for sure that I will be able to slip through the lynch. Proving myself right is not that important but in the heat of battle when someone is rubbing your nose in something, sometimes you spout off with arrogance just to show someone up. 'that's a nice full house, but take a look at these 4 aces, baby!' and that is all great until they comeback with 'oh yeah? read this this straight flush and weep'. I'm from Texas, need I say more?

Who vas rubbingk his nose in something? I agree howeffer his being on board with my plan vas bluff. But I think his hinting invulnerability also bluff. I think he hope by zeeming confident, ozzers vould belief him and not test claim. Vhen it became clear he might get put to test, he had to backtrack and say he not sure he unlynchable.

Vhen his story change onder pressure, this very zuzpicious. I now feel pretty sure his hint of knowing he can not be lynched vas bluff.

Question is, vould pro-town player make zat bluff? Ziss, I think is key question here. And I think not zo likely, I think more likely scum (or SK - and a zazquatch could be an SK, I thinking) vould bluff like zat.

Unvote; Vote: SlySly

[Isacc]

Alright, while the whole SlySly issue is very interesting, I would rather address a matter I feel I can get a definite read on for now, so as to whether or not his claim seems legit, I am holding off on deciding.

@Has: In response to your question, I don't find Sly's case very strong. Ironically, I agree with some of the general points he makes at certain points, but not for the reasons he states. For example, not reading is deff anti-town, but I don't think scum can exactly go into a game without a read either, so I don't think it's scummy (yes there is a difference between anti-town and scummy), and also I am still worried about the language thing. Overall though, I find SlySly's case weak, but not hugely bad (I think it seems like he's trying, but I am not sure yet).

However, the language issue is what I feel can be solved now. I have an important deal to make, which I think my fellow town members will see the logic in.

Destructor:

You must not post in German ever again in the thread. Period. If you make another post in German, you will be lynched. Got it?

[hasdgfas]

So Isacc, why is his case weak, but mine on you was scummy?

[Isacc]

I would tell you that today I had a talk with a buddy that plays mafia and I decided I need to start realizing that bad logic =/= scum automatically, but I doubt you'd believe that. Though, I am less concerned with you now (although, I still am annoyed that you made a case that I

cannot

possibly defend myself against, since you don't believe the evidence I presented). Anyways, you could say I am trying to turn a new leaf. And yes, I'm aware I probably look like bad pedaling scum.

I knew you were going to ask that, though. =P

[Darox]

Destructor:

You must not post in German ever again in the thread. Period. If you make another post in German, you will be lynched. Got it?

Why?

[Darox]

I mean, why should we stop destructor speaking in German? it does no harm, and German easily beats Spanish in any kind of competition. (Damnit)

[imaginality]

Ma-ia hii
Ma-ia huu
Ma-ia hoo
Ma-ia haha

Ma-ia hii
Ma-ia huu
Ma-ia hoo
Ma-ia haha

[Isacc]

@Darox: He claims he will die if he doesn't make any posts in German. This will tell us if he is lying.

[caf19]

@Darox: He claims he will die if he doesn't make any posts in German. This will tell us if he is lying.

So, under your plan either he dies or we lynch him? Seems like a rather violent plan. What makes you want destructor to die so much, when he's not the town's consensus lynch right now?

[Isacc]

Caf, if that's as far as you can think, you aren't thinking at all.

[Plum]

I would tell you that today I had a talk with a buddy that plays mafia and I decided I need to start realizing that bad logic =/= scum automatically, but I doubt you'd believe that. Though, I am less concerned with you now (although, I still am annoyed that you made a case that I cannot possibly defend myself against, since you don't believe the evidence I presented). Anyways, you could say I am trying to turn a new leaf. And yes, I'm aware I probably look like bad pedaling scum.

I knew you were going to ask that, though. =P

Talking with a buddy and discovering that bad logic =/= auto-scum I'm fine with. Willing to believe it, sure. The whole 'I'm aware I possibly look scummy, and I also just

knew

this would happen doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling in my gut, though.

@Darox: He claims he will die if he doesn't make any posts in German. This will tell us if he is lying.

So, under your plan either he dies or we lynch him? Seems like a rather violent plan. What makes you want destructor to die so much, when he's not the town's consensus lynch right now?

That. Destructor isn't ringing too many bells for me (since the PR question has cleared up enough for me for now). I don't feel the need to test it any more than I feel the need to make Imaginality stop Numa-Numa-ing. I'm not sure what the heck you want Caf and myself to be thinking, so would you please please clarify?

Probably more to come. For the record now, yes Destructor's not having read the entire thread isn't optimal. Nor is it extremely pro-town. It doesn't, in my mind, strongly point to Destructor being scum. Anti-town =/= scum, and in this case I take it as a nulltell. Will do a reread to se the evolution of SlySly's arguable/alleged/whatever lynch-immunity or lack thereof, but Sly, I'd really like you to clarify

as clearly and finally as possible

.

[SlySly]

Will do a reread to se the evolution of SlySly's arguable/alleged/whatever lynch-immunity or lack thereof, but Sly, I'd really like you to clarify

as clearly and finally as possible

.

I do not have any immunities. What I do have is abilities. Other than what I have already said, that is about as clear as I can make it without tempting the Wrath of Mirth, which I have already unintentionally treaded far too close to, as it is.

[Isacc]

Guys, I asked Destructor's agreement. Everyone else's consent was not necessary. I hope you will all trust me in that I think Destructer will agree to my demands, for his own good.

[Darox]

Are you suggesting you're going to lynch him by yourself if he doesn't comply?
It seems like you'd need other people for that.

And nobody has answered my Tiger vs Lion question. I'm disappointed, the answer is so apparent to even the most base philistine.

[destructor]

Guys, I asked Destructor's agreement. Everyone else's consent was not necessary. I hope you will all trust me in that I think Destructer will agree to my demands, for his own good.

I don't consent.

Why should I risk being modkilled for this?

And, anyone who thinks my English posts are a scumtell, answer this:
Why would I post in German in the first place?

[Isacc]

Why should you risk being modkilled? Because otherwise, I don't buy that you ever had to speak in German at all. Prove yourself, or be scummy. Your choice.

[destructor]

Are you reading my posts carefully? I don't have a PR. I wasn't told to speak German and that speaking anything else would get me modkilled. I was told that speaking some German might be a factor in me staying alive. I am playing accordingly.

Can you please answer the question I asked now? If you can't find a good answer for why I, as town or scum, would have started posting in German and then stop, drop it.