Mini 709 - Musical Mafia - (Game Over!)

[Trumpet of Doom]

All right, I've finally compiled my list of how I feel about everyone.

Atlas:

...you know, I'd analyze him if there was really anything to analyze. What there is looks reasonably solid town up until he drops off the face of the planet. magisterrain's coming in on reasonably even footing.

corporate:

Newb, at any rate... looked for an excuse to vote Wall-E around pages 6 and 7, various bad cases on Atlas and Wall-E... I'm thinking likely scum. I feel sorry for his replacement, because he's left him/her/it a fairly big hole to dig out of.

Gamma:

4th vote on atlas on p1 raised my eyebrow. He self-votes with only two votes on him and then claims irresponsible vigilante (on page 2!), so I'm somewhat suspicious... then again, piccolo is a rather appropriate instrument for driving players out of the band. Rather uncooperative, though not to Wall-E's level. Still, he's definitely either vig or SK, in light of last night's happenings. I'd say we keep him around as long as we feel confident that he'll do what we tell him.

My Milked Eek:

Definitely seems town - even willing to argue with the two least cooperative players in the game (Wall-E and Gamma) in an attempt to get them to contribute. zachattack seemed to be doing a better job of getting Wall-E to contribute, but I don't suppose that helps us now. (Minor, not-even-sure-I-should-be-taking-the-time-to-talk-about-it nitpick: it's "woodwinds," not "windwoods." Says the guy whose RL instrument type is collectively referred to as "brassholes.")

Nekka-Lucifer/RestFermata:

IMO, NL's neutral, maybe leaning slightly scummy - not too terribly much in either direction, and I'm never quite sure what to make of bloodthirsty players. RF, however, I find fairly solidly town. I like her scumhunting.

Tolmides/Knight of Cydonia:

Tolmides didn't post much, but when he was around, he was a fairly good player. KoC... well, I can't complain, he's posted more than the other two of us that just replaced in.

Wall-E:

Loud, obnoxious and infuriatingly unhelpful, I got that much... but those (well, at least the first two) aren't really scumtells. In post 9, implies that he knows (on page 1!) beyond a shadow of a doubt that jersey is town. This sounds to me like an inadvertent scum claim or a cop in a cop headstart game, and it doesn't sound like this is a cop headstart. Happy about Gamma's vig claim, which I don't like because this may mean he's scum with what he thinks is a viable target; then many "everyone quit asking stupid questions that I've already answered" posts. Finally, post 506 is civil, calm, cool, collected, clear (let me see, how many C words can I throw in there?), showing that he can play nice if he wants to, and the rest of D1 looks reasonable to me. In short, I find him neutral, possibly leaning just the tiniest bit scum.

WhereIsTony:

Unwarranted assumption that scum have an RB - I don't know about the rest of y'all, but I'd guess that a roleblocker's not a terribly common role. If it is, my bad, but I can see this as scum letting slip information about the setup. I'm really not sure what to make of post 462: Yes, there are reasons to vote someone other than your #1 suspect (pressure, #2 suspect, think that they're an okay lynch even if they're not the greatest), but if you're going to claim "many" reasons, I think it's good to provide more than one. Overall: likely scum.

And now, the list, scummiest at top:
1: WhereIsTony
2: corporate
3: Wall-E
4: Gamma
T5: Atlas/magisterrain
T5: Tolmides/KoC
T7: NL/RF
T7: MME
9: Jordan/ToD

in the interest of spurring discussion

vote wall-e
If Wall E were town
nightkill corporate

If Walle were scum.
nightkill resta

Okay. Voting Wall-E I can understand. I can also see the "if he's town, NK corporate" idea. But if he's scum... NK RF? I don't like this at all. Please explain.

Vote Count:
Gamma - (1) Wall-E
Knight of Cydonia - (0)
magisterrain - (0)
My Milked Eek - (0)
Netlava - (0)
RestFermata - (0)
Trumpet of Doom - (0)
Wall-E - (1) WhereIsTony
WhereIsTony - (0)

With 9 alive, 5 votes will end the day.

[WhereIsTony]

Because looking back, it seemed like nekka was scum. Later RF replaced in and while RF seems less scummy the role could not have changed.

[Gamma]

He's playing too nicey-nice. Sucking up to the town is not how townies win this game. I was a Gamma fan when he was walking amongst us with an axe, but now he's just going wherever the crowd points and whacking who we say.

This town is dirty, so I'd rather he acted on his own instinct than listen to us.

kekekeke

[Wall-E]

Wall-E: DO you honestly think Gamma is scum?

Maaaaaaybe.

[Wall-E]

Because of posts 24 and 60, RestFermata is (still) #1 suspect.

[Wall-E]

In post 9, implies that he knows (on page 1!) beyond a shadow of a doubt that jersey is town.

False.

What I said was, "jerseygoomba, why aren't you the mafia?"

Meaning, tell me why you aren't the mafia.

It was partially a joke, partially an attempt to generate discussion.

[Wall-E]

The above quote was not WhereIsTony, but Trumpet of Doom. My bad.

[Trumpet of Doom]

What I said was, "jerseygoomba, why aren't you the mafia?"

Meaning, tell me why you aren't the mafia.

It was partially a joke, partially an attempt to generate discussion.

Ah. My bad. I read it as "I'm having trouble believing this, but I have been told by a reliable source that jersey's not mafia."

[Wall-E]

An understandable translation.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Because looking back, it seemed like nekka was scum. Later RF replaced in and while RF seems less scummy the role could not have changed.

I don't like this reasoning. How are we to know that Nekka couldn't just have been poor town, and that RF merely did a good job cleaning up the mess he left her?

Of course, I might be somewhat biased against this logic because I think it contributed to my lynch in newbie 709. (OTOH, there I actually

was

scum. I think that might have had something to do with it as well. Maybe. Possibly.) Hence my comment about feeling sorry for corporate's replacement.

[WhereIsTony]

Because looking back, it seemed like nekka was scum. Later RF replaced in and while RF seems less scummy the role could not have changed.

I don't like this reasoning. How are we to know that Nekka couldn't just have been poor town, and that RF merely did a good job cleaning up the mess he left her?

Of course, I might be somewhat biased against this logic because I think it contributed to my lynch in newbie 709. (OTOH, there I actually

was

scum. I think that might have had something to do with it as well. Maybe. Possibly.) Hence my comment about feeling sorry for corporate's replacement.

We can't

know

, this early in the day. I am unsure on e very one save me and our fallen friends.

Nekka may have been poor town, and that would suck for us and especially RF. But it stills seems the most likely if not concrete case i could see.

Other than corporate who has vanished and seemed a bit evasive

[My Milked Eek]

Why are we forgetting that Nekka had claimed Clarinet Player?
Which was confirmed as townie by me yesterday.

Three players have died, all three clarinet players.

I would find it rather coincidentally that he had claimed a random windwood/woodwind to be vanilla townie and be right about it.

Of course, safe claims, but I feel that RF's play is very protown and I think that Nekka's play was just him being awkward about this game.

I agree on most points with ToD's list.


Gamma:
Don't nightkill this night.

[Wall-E]

Why are we forgetting that Nekka had claimed Clarinet Player?
Which was confirmed as townie by me yesterday.

Three players have died, all three clarinet players.

I would find it rather coincidentally that he had claimed a random windwood/woodwind to be vanilla townie and be right about it.

Of course, safe claims, but I feel that RF's play is very protown and I think that Nekka's play was just him being awkward about this game.

You're confident I'm scum based on the fact that I thought that it looked like a PM. In fact the reason I disregarded the 'woodwinds win' section was because I was deemed a Clarinet player (woodwind right?) and I didn't think of checking back on my PM to see if it said if woodwind won or not as it seemed to me at the time that it was the win condition.

Here's Nekka claiming to back up another player's claim. Why?

Here is an example situation:

Player (steve) is at L-1.
Player (steve) claims Clarinet (vanilla).
Player (bob) is a Clarinet (vanilla), and so he unvotes.
So do all the other vanillas.
The wagon dies.

Nekka's claim to back (steve) took place before most people had a chance to even read the claim. It was completely unwarranted. Something jumpy scum might do.

Gamma:
Don't nightkill this night.

Gamma should do whatever he wants to do.

[RestFermata]

Yes, it does suck for me. But what can I do? I can attempt to explain the actions of my predecessor, but it's just as theoretical as something you guys might come up with, except for the fact that I am 100% sure of my alignment and you are not.

Also, it sucks to have a malfunctioning scumdar. But I am suspicious of corporate and WIT. Mostly corporate, for contradicting himself. Try to reconcile these quotes:

tony knows RB exist in theory and wants to protect the town from such possibilities.

what a asshole huh wall e?

i think its pretty anti town to NOT consider a RB as a option. so.... kudos to tony.

---

and all this IF talk about a blocker from you has really got me thinking. I know, what if the mob has the mob on thier side and can mod kill anyone any time?! what if im a jester and i wanna be a jack ass and get lynched?
who knows? also, i feel better letting him hide his status UNTIL we have a confident kill for him. better to let him live another day, than to kill an innocent townie.

...

and wall e the jester speculation was just me trying to say us playing like there is a role blocker when we are not sure if there is one or not is just as stupid as playing as if there is a jester when someone acts like a jack ass. or someone has a PR when lurking. etc etc..

To me, this kind of hypocrisy reeks of scumminess. When you're scum, all of your cases and opinions about the game are pretty much fake. So it's easy to contradict yourself without noticing it because it's not really something you feel strongly about; it's just something you're pretending to feel strongly about. So I think that's scummy from corporate. Plus corporate seems to always be looking to pick a fight, maybe cast some suspicion around, yet doesn't really back it up, and then just says "it's my playstyle, so deal with it." Not a fan.

As for WIT, it's not that concrete. It's not so much the RB'er thing, really. I feel like maybe I

could

be letting something slide there, but the thing is in Family Guy Mini I garnered quite a bit of suspicion for suggesting scum might have fakeclaims. Everyone thought I was scum with a fakeclaim because I brought that up, as if the

only

people who have ever imagined a fakeclaim in a theme game would be scum, of course. Now, I didn't get lynched, but it was definitely a hot topic for a while. So Tony bringing up the possibility of a mafia roleblocker reminds me of that. I don't see it as a scumtell, though in light of being way off about jersey and Budja, I am willing to consider that maybe I

should

see it as a scumtell. The reason I'm a little iffy about WIT is, yet again, another (perceived) contradiction:

I am always supicious when people start saying if (name) is town than (other name must be scum).

---

in the interest of spurring discussion

vote wall-e
If Wall E were town
nightkill corporate

If Walle were scum.
nightkill resta

It's not airtight, but there appears to be a bit of a discrepancy here. Tony is basically saying he is suspicious of me for saying that if both Budja and jersey are town, I might reconsider about Wall-E. He misinterpreted me as saying that Wall-E's alignment is dependent on Budja's and jersey's, when I really meant that I might have to rethink the way I'm attacking this game if both my main suspects are wrong. But the point is, he later does the exact same thing he accused me of. Sure, he doesn't say it outright, but he acts as if my alignment is dependent on that of Wall-E. It isn't much, but again, I'm not a big fan of hypocrisy. If I act hypocritical, feel free to call me out on it, because I try to be a stable thinker. But if you can't, expect me to catch other people at it.

I would normally wait for more input from corporate/the people who just replaced in, but since this game is stalling (again) I'm just going to go ahead and vote and see if it sparks anything.

Vote: corporate

I agree that Gamma shouldn't NK.

[Netlava]

Netlava replaces Corporate as of this post.

Hello, I will read the thread soon and post my thoughts later.

[My Milked Eek]

Gamma should do whatever he wants to do.

No.

1) We're down to 9 players. Worst case scenario is that we're down to 6 with no scum dead on D3.
2) SK's usually are compulsive. This would prove him being a vig.

And I thought the plan was to steer Gamma's nightkill.

[WhereIsTony]

Why are we forgetting that Nekka had claimed Clarinet Player?
Which was confirmed as townie by me yesterday.

Three players have died, all three clarinet players.

I would find it rather coincidentally that he had claimed a random windwood/woodwind to be vanilla townie and be right about it.
.

That is actaully an excellent point.

I missed that.

[WhereIsTony]

I can see how that looks inconsistent. RF

I am trying to adapt to having an "aim-able vig"

but yeah, I did just do exactly what I said is a suspicious move.

vote netlava

It is possible to remove suspicion, but your predessessor was extremely sketchy

[Trumpet of Doom]

Responding to massprod.

Certainly if we lynch town today, Gamma should not kill tonight. If we lynch scum, he has a bit more margin of error (worst case coming into D3: 2 scum, 4 town), but I do think he should only kill if he's reasonably certain someone's scum. And maybe not even then.

[My Milked Eek]

I got prodded?

[WhereIsTony]

I think everyone did.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Well, since it had "mass prod" in the subject line, yeah, I think it went out to everyone. Maybe now we'll actually hear something from magisterrain. It's somewhat bad form to replace into a game and then not post in it for over a week after it's opened, am I right? And I'd really like to hear anything from him.

[Gamma]

No NK is a terrible idea. Yet.

I think we should continue discussion before we decide who we do anything too. It didn't help JerseyGoomba selfhammered himself so we could talk about it.

If we lynch town, no NK, possibly. I don't know.
If we lynch a scum, NK.

I suggest we do it by situation.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I personally think Gamma should just do what he wants from now on. It's going to be too easy for the scum amongst us to steer his kills towards townies.

[My Milked Eek]

It's not a terrible idea, it needed more nuance.

If we lynch town, no nightkill.
If we lynch scum, a nightkill.

I think this is best.