Newbie Game 720 -- Game Over!

[Azhrei]

Insanepenguin, sorry, I thought he'd quoted you without an answer.

And that's why you don't post 15 minutes after you get up.

[Yaw]

Vote Count:

jayfin3 (2): Charrat, magisterrain
magisterrain (1): insanepenguin02

Not Voting: jayfin3, Azhrei

3 to lynch

[Charrat]

You say it made you feel more confident about me being scum...How? You didnt' give one reason.

You didn't give any logic to your decision. You vote the claimed cop, then make up an excuse after we all get mad at you for it. You are looking very much like scum right now.

Is this post directed at me? Sorry, I am just a little unsure.

[insanepenguin02]

No, the qustion is directed at me. And when I can sit down and find some hard evidence rather than just explaining, I will do so - busy day today but just wanted to say that I will be posting more in the next day or so.

[Azhrei]

So... Anyone alive round here?

[jayfin3]

I personally am waiting on insanepenguin's response to my question I asked a couple of days ago, which he ignored, and which i then asked again, which he has stalled answering.

Unfortunately I cannot defend against arguments like insanepenguin's, where he magically gets a feeling that I am scum after him doing the scummiest thing so far today. That is why I am not saying anything. I am checking in periodically though, as always.

[Azhrei]

That's kinda what I'm waiting on, as well. Peeeenguin!

[insanepenguin02]

Sorry guys, I am REALLY not trying to stall here. I have been crazy busy. Let me give some answers though.

[

You say it made you feel more confident about me being scum...How? You didnt' give one reason.

You didn't give any logic to your decision. You vote the claimed cop, then make up an excuse after we all get mad at you for it. You are looking very much like scum right now.

So here is the question that you are waiting for the answer to? Here is some of the meat to my suspicions against you, jay. The first is your case against Azrhei - I feel that the case is weak and IMO not the most realistic case presented. I think that a lot of it can be explained by him being noob:

Ok, Azhrei you seem to be avoiding my accusation. Maybe I just wasn't clear.

My case against Azhrei is this:
1)He avoided taking the spotlight D1, by either hammering Vampirific, or stalling the lynch on Vampirific, both of which he would have reasons to do:

a)Hammering Vampirific: Azhrei states that his "instincts and my logic tell me he is scum", yet he won't hammer,

even though there are 4 votes on Vampirific already, presumabley from people who feel the same way.

. I don't understand the hesistation to hammer. it's not rushing the game, everyone has already stated how they feel.
And then,

if you still felt like hammering was too quick, why didn't you tell people to back off of Vampirific's lynch?

b)Getting Vamp off of L-1: If you felt so strongly about not rushing the game (which is what you are claiming), why not tell people to back off of Vampirific for the moment?? Clearly, what you are doing here, is avoiding the hammer (and attention), and letting someone else take it. In this case, it was your mafia partner (unlucky)

As Azhrei has stated, he is a noob, like most of us here so I start just with that. Now a) Azhrei not hammering Vamp looks very much to me that he just wasn't very convinced by the evidence that Vamp was scummy. We all were going off of just a couple things that Vamp said and, in hindsight, was a mistake for us to jump all over the seeminly scummy comments of Vamp. I see Azhrei as being cautious with that. And b) As a noob, I don't know if that would be a great thing for him to do as it may have come across as him trying to get attention off a scum buddy. I see this as also being cautious, not scummy, behavior. So this is number one of my reasons for your "failure" of a case thus far.

2)I know you voted Benmage, it's pretty obvious, and I don't see how I'd overlook that. Obviously i was taking that into account. The thing is, when you posted the post I quoted, it was a bit before you voted Benmage. I think that you figured out that since he was in such deep water, it would be better to vote him. Its called 'bussing', and it makes sense in a scenario such as that.

Maybe it is just me being a noob as well but I really wouldn't see him bussing his only other scum partner so easily. He didn't really bring much attention to it, didn't waiver, and kept the vote there from the beginning. I could see him causing more discussion if he were bussing him IMO. So this is #2 on how I don't think the case against him is working.

3)Both of your posts that I quoted struck me as being particularly scummy. I don't know, just that gut feeling. For reference, I'm referring to posts 89 and 168.

And #3, you try to build a case which is great. But I have to say that a gut feeling isn't the greatest excuse. I know that I use it and we all have these gut feelings but I can't count it as a GREAT accusation point.

This comment has stuck out to me also. Why would you make the comment that it is not in the best interest for the town for you to die?? If you are town, this is an obvious statement and not one that needs to be mentioned. The fact that you specifically say this is suspicious IMO.

Good point. I get your point of view now.

However it is not in the town's best interest for me to die, even if I am not a power role.

Cop will only be roleblocked again, and another townie or the doctor will die. It will leave us in the same situation, yet at LYLO, where I would not be around to point out the things I think are scummy that Azhrei has said.

And I really don't like comments like these. When, if I die, do this...The only times that I have heard this have been from mafia that are about to get killed so that they can influence the next day still.

So, when (if?) I die, look closer at Azhrei, but consider insanepenguin as well.

With all of this, along with the others' observations such as Charrat's analysis of the voting situations, etc. lead me to in all honesty suspect jay the most. Mag is convincing me again that he is indeed the cop as he has been uncc'ed and it would have been a very bold move for him to claim it that early if he wasn't. Azhrei and Charrat would be middle of the road for me right now.
SCum = jay
Middle = Charrat and Azhrei
Town - mag and IP

[insanepenguin02]

Oh and sorry -

Unvote mag and FOS jay

in order to continue discussion and scumhunting.

[jayfin3]

This comment has stuck out to me also. Why would you make the comment that it is not in the best interest for the town for you to die?? If you are town, this is an obvious statement and not one that needs to be mentioned. The fact that you specifically say this is suspicious IMO.

Good point. I get your point of view now.

However it is not in the town's best interest for me to die, even if I am not a power role.

Cop will only be roleblocked again, and another townie or the doctor will die. It will leave us in the same situation, yet at LYLO, where I would not be around to point out the things I think are scummy that Azhrei has said.

And I really don't like comments like these. When, if I die, do this...The only times that I have heard this have been from mafia that are about to get killed so that they can influence the next day still.

So, when (if?) I die, look closer at Azhrei, but consider insanepenguin as well.

With all of this, along with the others' observations such as Charrat's analysis of the voting situations, etc. lead me to in all honesty suspect jay the most. Mag is convincing me again that he is indeed the cop as he has been uncc'ed and it would have been a very bold move for him to claim it that early if he wasn't. Azhrei and Charrat would be middle of the road for me right now.
SCum = jay
Middle = Charrat and Azhrei
Town - mag and IP

I agree I'm helping nothing with the statement about it being bad that I die. You say it is so obvious...yet isn't the fact t hat the cop claim is real obvious, yet you voted for Magisterrain. You are not completely solid here.

Since I know that I am town, I believe it is my duty to point my FOS from my point of view so that "when/if" i die, the rest of the town has the opportunity to use my thoughts, especially because they will not take them with a grain of salt anymore. You want to constrict my FOS'? How does that help town? You are operating on the assumption i am Mafia, but if i am not, and I die, my suspicions will be very valuable to the town tomorrow.

Also...if I was scum...how would I be able to influence the town after I die? Theres only one more mafia left.

insanepenguin's case on me is negligible. The only specific things he has on me are two quotes that he got from me being in the spotlight. Other than that, hes just bussing off of what Charrat said.

I am now more suspicious of insanepenguin than I am of Azhrei

[insanepenguin02]

Jay - After my little test and need to solidify my decision on mag, I also see that it is very obvious that mag is the cop. Glad to see that we agree there.

By no means am I "constrict"ing your FOS. However, dying is a part of the game that nearly all of us will come to terms with. I find there no real reason to point out "When/If I die" when making a comment. It seems unnecessary to me therefore I find it suspicious or out of the ordinary when somebody states it that way.

See this comment can be taken two-fold:
1) You are town so we listen to your words tomorrow.
2) You are mafia and of course we ignore you.

And I guess that I don't follow how I am "bussing" off of Charrat?? Aren't I suppose to come up with quotes that I think are suspicious? The fact that YOU make a judgment on YOUR thoughts on my case on YOU means absolutely nothing to me nor would I be swayed at all by it if I were somebody else.

I enjoy the way that you have reacted while again on L-1. I have to agree that the longer you are, the more the scum will start to show on you. But I'm not ready to hammer just yet.

[jayfin3]

By no means am I "constrict"ing your FOS. However, dying is a part of the game that nearly all of us will come to terms with. I find there no real reason to point out "When/If I die" when making a comment. It seems unnecessary to me therefore I find it suspicious or out of the ordinary when somebody states it that way.

I stated my FOS because I hadn't done it before then. I was adding observations, etc that may not have been noticed tomorrow. I don't understand why this is so unnecessary. Things that I catch that others miss could save the game.

And I guess that I don't follow how I am "bussing" off of Charrat?? Aren't I suppose to come up with quotes that I think are suspicious? The fact that YOU make a judgment on YOUR thoughts on my case on YOU means absolutely nothing to me nor would I be swayed at all by it if I were somebody else.

I wasn't talking to you. I was making observations for all the players too see.

[Charrat]

If the mafia player is either insanepenguin or Azhrei, they have shown remarkable restraint not lynching jayfin3 with him being only one vote away for so long. We might be in a bit of a standstill right now. Would everyone mind listing who they think is most likely scum, and who they think is least likely scum? (IP has already posted his list, unless it has since changed)

(Most Scum to Least Scum)
jayfin3, insanepenguin02, magisterrain, Azhrei

[jayfin3]

insanepenguin, Azhrei, Charrat, magisterrain

The fact that mafia is not hammering means nothing. If they hammered me now, they would be in a horrible position tomorrow. This is not a town tell.

[magisterrain]

jayfin makes a good point, and its interesting that charrat keeps bringing this up, especially since he has made it so that he cant be tested in this way.
however, i dont think it means

nothing

if they are town and hammer, and jayfin is innocent, it would look like they are scum when they are not. whether they are town or mafia, if they hammer quickly, it could lose the game for them.

in order to move this along, i propose that azhrei and insanepenguin be given as long a day as possible if either of them hammers, to make sure we dont hammer one of them if they are town.

my suspects are: jayfin, charrat, insanepenguin, azhrei
with not a lot of room between any two suspects

[Azhrei]

I agree with what magis has said about the hammering. It doesn't mean nothing, but it's definitely not a sure fire town tell.

Also, what do you mean by this?

[quote=magis]

in order to move this along, i propose that azhrei and insanepenguin be given as long a day as possible if either of them hammers, to make sure we dont hammer one of them if they are town.

[/quote]

My suspects: (scummiest to least)

jayfin
charrat/insane
magis

Charrat, I'm getting rather annoyed by the fact that we really have very little information about you. If you're scum, you're playing very well.

[magisterrain]

basically i mean that if penguin decides to hammer jayfin and jayfin is innocent, i will not take it as an immediate tell that he is scum.

its unlikely charrats going to remove his vote it seems, so we may have to go ahead and lynch jayfin in order to move the game along. if he is innocent, id say we look at charrat.
if jayfin is everyones top suspect, we shouldnt necessarily hold it against whoever hammers him

[insanepenguin02]

Here's my list:

1)Scummiest - jayfin
2) Charrat
3) Azhrei
4) mag

And yes, I'm agreeing that we have come to a stand still. I don't see it as meaning anything (either scum or town) if I or Azhrei hammer. At some point somebody is going to hammer some vote in order for the day phase to end. This could be anybody: Town if they feel the player is suspicious or scummy or if they just want to continue the game along and get info through a lynching. Mafia if they want to ensure another innocent killed and/or to move the game along. with all of this said, I see that EVERYONE but jayfin has jayfin as their most scummy. Therefore I see no new info to convince me otherwise and will act on the one that I find as the scummiest as well. And I will

Vote jayfin

.

(please be mafia....please be mafia.....please be mafia....)

[Yaw]

Final Vote Count:

jayfin3 (3): Charrat, magisterrain, insanepenguin02

Not Voting: jayfin3, Azhrei

And with that, jayfin3 is led to the gallows. When he is dead, you find on his person a Mafia calling card.

jayfin3, Mafia Roleblocker, lynched day 3.

Town win!

[Yaw]

Setup:

Charrat – doc
insanepenguin02 – townie
magisterrain – cop
jayfin3 (replacing T-Rex) – rb
Benmage (replacing Erato) – goon
Azhrei – townie
LongShanks – townie
qwints – townie
Vamparific – townie

Night Actions:

Night 1:
magisterrain investigates Benmage (guilty)
Charrat protects magisterrain
Scum kill LongShanks
T-Rex roleblocks nobody

Night 2:
magisterrain investigates T-Rex (no result, blocked)
Charrat protects magisterrain
jayfin3 roleblocks magisterrain
Scum kills qwints

Thread is now open for commentary.

[insanepenguin02]

YES!! Boy that was a tough decision! Good job, town!

[magisterrain]

woohoo! sweet

[Azhrei]

Phew! Good game jayfin, you did well, but you had a crap position.

Also, I think this was particularly bad move on the T-Rex's behalf

T-Rex roleblocks nobody

And Charrat! You didn't lose this time, and you got scum. Lol, you dirty liar!

[qwints]

Well played town. You took advantage of the first night guilty very well, benmage.

[Yaw]

Well, then I guess I have a few notes...

That was fairly well-played by jayfin3. He replaced into a difficult spot, and did well to keep the dogs away that long.

The Vamparific thing from day 1...I actually had the listmod look into his IC status, just because someone with a habit of being lynched fairly quickly on day 1 might not be someone we want to put out there as an example of good play. Though with that said, I did appreciate his being in this game. It was worthwhile in that he made the point very well that strange play, and even illogical play, does not necessarily mean the person doing it is scum.

magisterrain was really on the ball as cop. I happen to agree with whoever said that the best way to play as cop is to track down evidence in thread to back up your guilty result, and then push the lynch based on that evidence. Especially in a newbie, if you come out as cop you're either getting nightkilled or roleblocked for the rest of the game. If the scum isn't sure you're the cop, you may be able to get off more investigations. Though it did still work out fairly well.

I'm a it curious as to the decision by Charrat not to claim as doc. I'll admit I've only figured out the possibilities if he claims in that position, but I'm curious as to how he envisioned the game playing out with the townie claim.