Mini 730 - Hard Nights in the City - OVER!

[Porkens]

I think one of them is probably lying. I'm leaning toward this "double-tracker" joat role being the lie for the time being.

Id be happy lynching anyone today, I thought that would be clear by now.

[canadianbovine]

I think one of them is probably lying. I'm leaning toward this "double-tracker" joat role being the lie for the time being.

Id be happy lynching anyone today, I thought that would be clear by now.

well is there a few people/ one person that you find most scummy?

do you still want to lynch gera, because you think he is lying?

[Porkens]

I'm waiting for a little more information and an answer to my question before I make that determination

[SpyreX]

The Why does Dan Chao get fans and I dont votecount:

Gerantim (3): Nameless, Porkens, Danchaofan

Don_johnson (2): Juls, Plum
ChaosOmega (1): canadianbovine
Insanepenguin02 (1): ChaosOmega

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to dance the dance of the sugar plum fairies.

Deadline: Thursday, January 22nd 10:30 PM PST

[Plum]

[filler post ala Nameless]

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to dance the dance of the sugar plum fairies.

But what about me and my avatar - we're doing it already

[/filler post]

[Megatheory]

Ugh, this is a disaster and I feel I must blame myself. I saw a geraintm lynch as a horrible idea last night, but it was late and I just couldn't get the words out.

geraintm, Porkens, and, to a lesser extend, canadianbovine are all guilty of the same thing: bad day one play. The only reason to pick ger over the other two is because other people have been suspecting him already. This leads me to suspect Porkens, Plum, and Namless for pushing his lynch. Nameless especially, since for a while now I've thought that the lynch would be ger, Namless, or don and if don is lynched and is town, Nameless will be exposed.

mega - fixated on penguin for a long long time
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:53 am
this post has don and nameless as top lynch targets, not sure why nameless
sad he didn't make any mention of my post on the night zero kills which were just above him, i wanted credit.
seems happy now to let others make cases on who to lynch and follow. just not getting a good feeling on him, seems eager to find a wagon to jump onto.

I'm still rereading. I have seen evidence in my reread that Nameless is scum. don obviously believes strongly that Nameless is scum, and many of the things he is accusing Nameless of are good scum tells. There are only two possibilities here: don is scum and he pushed Nameless but dropped it since he wasn't getting anywhere,

or

don is town and has caught scum, but became discouraged. I'm 99% sure that lynching one of them is the correct play today. I'm holding final judgment until my reread is complete.

This is all evident in my recent posts. ger, you are looking at the basic surface of things, but you aren't examining motives. This is why your scumhunting is percieved as so poor and that is why you are in trouble now.

plum - seemed fine, can't get passed how he jumped on my wagon after Atronach post. on monday, plum named nameless, porkens, don and dan all ahead of me in scum lists, and seemed very happy to jump towards me. said some of the reasons atronach's reasons he doesn't agree with, but picks me up for the pushing the random lynch - why didn't plum go after me weeks ago when i made this, and the whole joke i tried to make in my first posts, again, why only use this now to attack me as scum? i don't mind leaving the vote thing on, i've said sorry before as i didn't think it was sucha huge deal but i'll clearly not make that mistake again.

I feel this is very important. Plum was pinging my scumdar all last night. I'll try to examine these issues more closely in my reread.

Atronach - i forgot he was in the game for a long time, he seemed under the radar to me
then he pushed an attack on me, i am not sure if he really believes all he has written. the things he has one me, i would never consider them scummy on someone else

Although, you still haven't acknowledged the fact that you don't seem to have scum hunted much.

dan - "IP: any flavour on tracker? " this one line i noted and liked. makes me think he got some flavour in his role and was hoping penguin would have something similar. this might be something tiny to go on, but i buy dan as town

This feels like someone trying to out a power role >.< I never said I had flavor in my role. I ONLY specifically mentioned in the apocalyptic flavor of the OP.

penguin -if scum, then picked a good role to claim.

This comment just feels odd...

juls - seems ok, done decent posting, gotten really sidetracked with the tracker thing.

Do you think discussing what we should do with our tracker is beneficial?

vote: Geraintm

This is nothing but a bandwagon jump. If I understand correctly, you are voting ger because he isn't acknowledging his poor scumhuing. He hasn't before, why would he now? This is bad investigation. You're hung up on this one issue and aren't looking at the rest of what ger has posted in any kind of serious way. I can't tell if this is a scum move or bad town play.

claim then
Jack of All Trades, i can't focus on anything, i like to imagine myself as randy from my name is earl.
one shot tracker
one shot vig

as i said, i had flavour in my role message, hence my liking that post which was askign for flavour from penguin.

glad that got sorted out quick, you can all either decide to lynch me or go looking for someone else to go lynch.

I believe ger. His play is consistend with a bad attempt at protecting his role, which is why his hasn't scumhunted well.

(Sorry to keep insulting you, ger.)

yep, planning how to deal with a tracker on day one when you are going to get results from otehr players seemed odd. i knew that i was going to be able to throw in a tracker result too for example, and i strongly suspect there will be mor epro-town info to come after night 1. i considered it a waste of time.

why did you not speak up previously? the discussion of what to do about ip carried on for several pages. why only mention this now?

He was trying to protect his role. Duh. Think about who you are talking to.

also, i find it interesting that you don't think i have been scum hunting. you could say i have been extraordinarily poorly scum hunting, but to say i haven't been scumhunting to me is extemely suspicious. i have over fifty posts in this game, and though some contain arguments with other players, they are mostly arguments over who i believe to be scum. i have repeatedly pointed out why i think players are scummy. i have backed up every reason i have used with evidence. you can call my evidence weak, but to say it is non existant is a complete misrepresentation of how i have been playing. i believe at this point that you are scum. you were cornered. though your claim doesn't seem desperate, you have pushed the town in my direction with your subtley placed criticism of my play which you have backed up with absolutely ZERO EVIDENCE.

I get the feeling you are taking this personally. Step back and look at the wagon on ger. Look at ger's play and see if it's consistent with a powerrole.

ebwop: i have rethought some things and alot will depend on how you respond. however, vig may be an entirely provable claim due to flavor in this game. i.e. if town directs ger's one-shot kill i would think it would not turn up as "beheaded". just a thought. what are others ideas?

He should vig himself.

you seem to just be following along porkens, you've been on both of these bandwagons. Do you have a list of people you would like to lynch today?

Quoted for extreme truthery. The interesting thing is, sometimes he actually does have something to say. I think looking at his day one play and seeing where he actually posts substance can help determine his alignment.

ebwop: found this on wiki.

The Jack-of-all-trades is a role with

several night abilities

, such as investigating, protecting, etc. Once he has used a type of ability, he won't be able to use it again.

several implies more than two.

i will stop posting for a while. if i am going to be bandwagoned i would like my questions answered and my suggestions considered.

Please don't split hairs. Several can mean any number.

If you want to find out who is lying,

look at what they are posting

.

[Danchaofan]

meta answer: I'm pretty sure the JOAT role can have whichever powers the mod chooses..

side note: If IP and Ger are both telling the truth, and there are in fact two trackers...is it possible there could be 2 vigs?

Outing power roles a bit much?

I don't believe Gera. Partially because of the redundancy and partially because 1 tracker result is easy enough to fake and a SK or mafia could easily sacrifice 1 nk. I also don't trust Gera to follow the tracker discussion that he decided was worthless to realize that IP is under serious consideration for lynch even if he just hits one tracker result wrong, and IP isn't a 1-shot tracker.

so MT doesn't mind lynching nameless, don, or ger? I'm not reading who CB or porkens (still) would like to lynch.

[Nameless]

FAST FACTS

FoS: Porkens

for stating suggesting a random lynch is not scummy.

Gera is exagerating and appealing to emotion with statements like "so many time over so many weeks". He also an epic level hypocrit by calling someone lazy after posting so little of ANYTHING before now and being unable to use capital letters.

Gera's roleclaim is unlikely, but plausible, even if IP were telling the truth. Why SHOULDN'T we have two trackers since everyone is sure we have no cops. (I doubt two vigs though, since too many NKs in a small game would be excessively swingy.) Best plan: We don't lynch Gera, and Gera vigs Chaos*. Even if Gera is scum let him waste a kill and we can lynch him later. Unlike doc, directing vig is only a problem if the mafia have a doc, but don't know that so eh. Bovine wants to prove him with tracker?

FoS: canadianbovine

for trying to give the Gera too easily fakable and less useful way out.

* Chaos = A player Gera wants to lynch, unlikely (wasted) NK for the mafia, stopped playing anyway.

Don thinks Atronach's case is weak, echoes Gera's (incomplete) rebutal, yet considers scum BUT withholds vote. (

This close to deadline?

) Don also accuses someone ELSE of "squeezing him in" their lynch list.

Note that Megatheory attempts to handwave the different cases against three players under the same category of "bad D1 play". This is stupid because bad play is an incredibly general term that pretty much every scummy action falls under, and because Mega tries to use this as a reason to attack several players for, god forbid, pushing a single player for lynching. Mega then states that one of Don or I must be scum (BAD, townies get into arguments too, you know). Mega also obviously defends Gera.

HoS: Megatheory

and this man needs to be examined closely D2.

Oh, and after a quick reread and since it was so wildly popular last time, Gera - Mega - Bovine connections

NOTED WELL.

Argh, unsure whether / where to move vote for the greatest chance of scum or a useless townie or ANYONE being lynched today. >_<

I can't help but notice DCF suggested the idea but has not yet himself listed lynch preferences.

[don_johnson]

so MT doesn't mind lynching nameless, don, or ger? I'm not reading who CB or porkens (still) would like to lynch.

pay attention much? Mt specifically stated he believes geraintm and offered a viable solution for ger to confirm himself later in the game(self vig). come on man, we're close to deadline, the least you can do is RTFT.

[don_johnson]

Don thinks Atronach's case is weak, echoes Gera's (incomplete) rebutal, yet considers scum BUT withholds vote. (

This close to deadline?

) Don also accuses someone ELSE of "squeezing him in" their lynch list.

yet another example of classic strawman. don_johnson NEVER stated that Atronach was scum.

seeing as how my current list is unacceptable to most townies and that deadline is approaching i will turn my attention to Atronach. their most recent attack doesn't sit well at the moment, however, i may simply be skewed by ger's response. i will post my assessment later today.

i am simply trying to help town and avoid a no lynch. i have been accused of spending too much time focusing in one area, now that i offer to focus elsewhere, nameless gets back to his old tricks. for the record: i reread Atronach's posts in isolation and found no reason to vote them. geraintm is not the best at explaining himself, and atronach's interpretations, though flawed, are not scummy.

vote:nameless

this is now my official deadline vote.

Note that Megatheory attempts to handwave the different cases against three players under the same category of "bad D1 play". This is stupid because bad play is an incredibly general term that pretty much every scummy action falls under, and because Mega tries to use this as a reason to attack several players for, god forbid, pushing a single player for lynching. Mega then states that one of Don or I must be scum (BAD, townies get into arguments too, you know). Mega also obviously defends Gera.

HoS: Megatheory

and this man needs to be examined closely D2.

mega's last few posts have been nothing but town to me. their reasoning is solid, and being the first to suggest the self vig gives them townie brownies from me. it only makes sense to look through peoples posts and distinguish "bad play" from scum tells(see strawman above).

Oh, and after a quick reread and since it was so wildly popular last time, Gera - Mega - Bovine connections

NOTED WELL.

holy distraction batman! save it for twilight if you are the lynch. why do you continue to muddy the waters?

Argh, unsure whether / where to move vote for the greatest chance of scum or a useless townie or ANYONE being lynched today. >_<

*digs into garbage can, pulls out flier with picture of nameless swinging from a tree.* here ya go!

I can't help but notice DCF suggested the idea but has not yet himself listed lynch preferences.

dan is not paying attention. ADHD is not a scumtell.

[Megatheory]

so MT doesn't mind lynching nameless, don, or ger? I'm not reading who CB or porkens (still) would like to lynch.

I do NOT want to lynch ger. If you would pay attention, you would notice most of my last post is devoted to arguing

against

his lynch.

don or Nameless should be lynched today.

Note that Megatheory attempts to handwave the different cases against three players under the same category of "bad D1 play". This is stupid because bad play is an incredibly general term that pretty much every scummy action falls under, and because Mega tries to use this as a reason to attack several players for, god forbid, pushing a single player for lynching. Mega then states that one of Don or I must be scum (BAD, townies get into arguments too, you know). Mega also obviously defends Gera.

HoS: Megatheory

and this man needs to be examined closely D2.

I noticed you can't argue that ger's actions are truly suspicious as opposed to bad play. The difference is huge because town and scum are equally likely to play badly. Your vote is still on him. Do you really want to lynch someone when you can't argue that they are suspicious? Maybe you can, but instead of addressing my arguments and understand what I'm saying, you're taking the opportunity to shovel dirt on me while masking the core issues I've brought up.

I defended ger because I believe his role claim. His play backs it up. Why bother arguing that it doesn't when you can just heap suspicion on me?

You and don have had much more than a simple argument. don thinks you are scum, and went so far as to campaign for your lynch. Either he is scum and dropped a case that he saw wasn't working, or he is town and caught a scum, but became discouraged too soon. Unless you can suggest an alternative scenario

with evidence

, then the best play is to lynch one of you.

I'm still rereading, but I already know what we should do.

Vote Nameless

[don_johnson]

on the subject of confirming ger...That would be quite hard. He has that one shot tracker ability, and we can put him on the same plan we have for penguin. I just find it weird to have a JOAT with a tracking ability and a tracker also...

this is what nameless has levied suspicion against cb for. this does not look like cb giving ger an "easy way out" as nameless puts it. it looks to me like a suggestion from someone who is clearly unsure of how to deal with the situation. i quote this only to show that nameless is not just targeting me with his misrepresentations.

[Plum]

You and don have had much more than a simple argument. don thinks you are scum, and went so far as to campaign for your lynch. Either he is scum and dropped a case that he saw wasn't working, or he is town and caught a scum, but became discouraged too soon. Unless you can suggest an alternative scenario

with evidence

, then the best play is to lynch one of you.

You have no stronger evidence of the two scenarios above than I have of suggesting that DonJ is town and thought he caught scum, and became discouraged while Nameless was town. There's nothing precluding Don from having made a case and petitioned for the lynch of a townie as town. None at all. The best play is not

necessarily

to lynch one of them today, as there's no good guarantee that one or the other has to be scum.

Weird that you asked

with evidence

. Sounds suspiciously related to the 'Burden of Proof' logical fallacy.

[Megatheory]

You have no stronger evidence of the two scenarios above than I have of suggesting that DonJ is town and thought he caught scum, and became discouraged while Nameless was town. There's nothing precluding Don from having made a case and petitioned for the lynch of a townie as town. None at all. The best play is not

necessarily

to lynch one of them today, as there's no good guarantee that one or the other has to be scum.

don was campaigning in a way that indicates that he is convinced that Nameless is scum. Some of his accusations cover genuine scum tells. I have found things in my reread that indicate that Nameless is scum. You say you have evidence that the two of them are townies, but you haven't presented any.

Further, you obviously don't think don is a townie

because you are voting for him

.

Weird that you asked

with evidence

. Sounds suspiciously related to the 'Burden of Proof' logical fallacy.

Nameless heaped suspicion on me without actually arguing against anything I said. He is trying to prevent his own lynch and prevent don from being lynched because it may expose him.

[Megatheory]

EBWOP: Nameless has to present evidence because without it he is doing nothing but preserving his own life.

[Plum]

You have no stronger evidence of the two scenarios above than I have of suggesting that DonJ is town and thought he caught scum, and became discouraged while Nameless was town. There's nothing precluding Don from having made a case and petitioned for the lynch of a townie as town. None at all. The best play is not

necessarily

to lynch one of them today, as there's no good guarantee that one or the other has to be scum.

don was campaigning in a way that indicates that he is convinced that Nameless is scum. Some of his accusations cover genuine scum tells. I have found things in my reread that indicate that Nameless is scum. You say you have evidence that the two of them are townies, but you haven't presented any.

Further, you obviously don't think don is a townie

because you are voting for him

.

Total strawman. I do not say I have evidence that the two of them are townies. I'm saying that there's no "proof" that one of the two of them has to be scum. I've campaigned for a lynch as town for someone I genuinely believed to be scum. I found things in rereads and made a strong case against said player. We were both town. I don't think DonJ is too likely to be a townie, but am far from convinced that I'm infallible. It's my best effort at this point, my vote on DonJ, and I think it's good. But you have not made a convincing case that it must be the case that one of Nameless and DonJ

must

be scum. It's plausible, but by no means the only plausible explanation for these events.

Weird that you asked

with evidence

. Sounds suspiciously related to the 'Burden of Proof' logical fallacy.

Nameless heaped suspicion on me without actually arguing against anything I said. He is trying to prevent his own lynch and prevent don from being lynched because it may expose him.

I'll analyze that in a later post, as that may take a long while to address properly. The fact that you find Nameless suspicious is not related to the logical fallacy you're using. You made a sweeping statement: 'One of [Nameless and DonJ] is scum'. Am I correct? And you continued to say that 'therefore we should lynch from one of the two of them. If you want to argue you must

prove

them both town. The lack of proof that they are both definitely town doesn't make it certain that one of them must be scum in any way, shape, or form.

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... n_of_Proof

Read it and weep. Stop strawmanning me and such.

On preview: You're still strawmanning this whole situation. You mean to say that he must present evidence that both he and DonJ are town or be lynched for trying to save his own skin? You're still using a logical fallacy and still not making any sense.

[Nameless]

Don thinks Atronach's case is weak, echoes Gera's (incomplete) rebutal, yet considers scum BUT withholds vote.

don_johnson NEVER stated that Atronach was scum.

Uh, I meant that you considered Gera scum.

I noticed you can't argue that ger's actions are truly suspicious as opposed to bad play

Yeah, see, you could say that about anything. Plenty of Gera's actions obviously benefit the scum (leaving a player at L-1, not contributing to discussion for quite a while, agreeing with Porkens' random lynch comment etc.), so why assume they come from a townie playing badly?

He is trying to prevent his own lynch and prevent don from being lynched because it may expose him.

... At the time I made my last post, exactly zero players were voting for me, and I was tossing up whether to swap my vote to the other possible bandwagon of Don. Where the heck did you get THAT from?

[don_johnson]

I don't think DonJ is too likely to be a townie, but am far from convinced that I'm infallible. It's my best effort at this point, my vote on DonJ, and I think it's good. But you have not made a convincing case that it must be the case that one of Nameless and DonJ

must

be scum. It's plausible, but by no means the only plausible explanation for these events.

what exactly are your issues with me? please provide evidence of why you think i am scummy. are you deliberately ignoring my posts? nameless last post misrepped both cb and myself. why is noone calling him on this? he has been doing it all game.

[insanepenguin02]

With my reasons before and the fact that nameless is starting to read scummy, I am going to

Vote Nameless

.

don, thanks for the flier

[canadianbovine]

i have 3 people I wouldn't mind lynching, since DCF asked: Nameless, Juls, and Chaos Omega.

Bovine wants to prove him with tracker?

FoS: canadianbovine

for trying to give the Gera too easily fakable and less useful way out.

I love your use of quotes in this argument to prove what you are saying.

on the subject of confirming ger...That would be quite hard. He has that one shot tracker ability, and we can put him on the same plan we have for penguin. I just find it weird to have a JOAT with a tracking ability and a tracker also...

this was a response to the question don_johnson asked two posts above

others: address how we can confirm geraintm. simply letting anyone who claims a power role off the hook on day one with no strategy to confirm any of them is poor play.

Do you have a better idea on how to confirm Gera? Oh I know lets tell him who to night kill. Cause scum can't kill people at night, right?

Oh, and after a quick reread and since it was so wildly popular last time, Gera - Mega - Bovine connections NOTED WELL.

Oh again, thanks for your hard effort in pasting some quotes so we can see why you think me, Gera, and Mega are connected.

unvote, vote: Nameless

[Megatheory]

During my reread, I found a number of things suspicious about Nameless.

I found this part of post 34 suspicious very early:

Don and Mega have started going at each other very quickly, perhaps suspiciously so? Penguin comments, but doesn't contribute to

serious or non serious discussion, is that suspicious? Chaos says nothing but votes, suspicious?

I didn't find it too suspicious, so I decided to wait and see more of Namelss's play before calling him out on it. In retrospect, I

should have immediately. When I did ask him about it, Nameless said these questions where "rhetorical":

Oh come on, my first three questions in #34 were obviously rhetorical.

That's not much of an explanation. I'd like some more detail on this. I don't see any reason to phrase these as questions except to

draw suspicious responses while easily distancing himself from them. He uses a similar distancing tactic later on.

Post 42:

Mega is pushing very hard for early, weak points. He's also placing vote/lynching under general discussion, and

his idea of scum being more sensitive than town to votes is bad (I'd say a player's personality would have has much impact and

townie power roles would be as sensitive anyway). Suspicious, and that's not a question this time.

Why is placing voting and/or lynching under discussion suspicious? I asked Nameless about this, but he lumped his response in with

a response to something else. Of course, he can't answer for this because it makes no sense.

i liked your post, though i would definitely request less "stream of consciousness" posting. i do it as well

sometimes, but i find it easier to communicate when things are structured well.

This makes me laugh because you have trouble finding your Shift key. But seriously, you're exaggerating Mega's scumminess in your

game theory

exchange and saying one of you must be scum is

very wrong

. (Protip: Townies disagree often, and you are

getting tunnel vision. There will be more than one scum, why not take a break from Mega and try to give opinions on who the others

might be? You're allowed to have some initiative rather than wait for questions, you know. -_-)

Here Nameless is totally distorting don's case against me. I hate to admit it, but don had good points against me. Nameless

addresses none of them, and instead paints it as poor play.

Afterthought: You know, I'm seriously not sure which I found more dubious: insanepenguin02, or his wagon. Even if

IP is scum I wouldn't be surprised to find scum bussing right now.

Megatheory states there are no cops in this game (from flavour NPC kills).

He also states that scum must be on IP's wagon

. I

find both these statements overly sure and dubious.

So Nameless obviously thinks there were probably scum on penguin's wagon, but when I

quote his post and agree with it

, it's

dubious. I also noticed that Nameless's comment came after don said he thought I was overly sure about this. Very suspicious.

don_johnson

, for the self vote, following overly long/pointless discussion, following mega vote and the

awful "wifomic? yes. but only until my death." self pairing THING,

still disagree with the way he jumped on the IP bandwagon

with what I see as the (then exagerated) smallest reason, seriously arguing semantics (eg. #172), frequently using "wifomic" to

cast false suspicion on arbitrary players/posts, for a second time exagerating and pushing a single minor point as the only reason

to lynch somebody (that's me!), make it overly clear that he doesn't know the scum setup, trying to partially direct the doc

(#220), aaaaaand epic stretching by taking a cassual comment ("Yeesh ...") as serious evidence that someone (me again) is

SK.

This is huge. Nameless accuses don of "jumping on the bandwagon" when don was literally the first person to vote for penguin after

his big post. (Juls had her vote on penguin

before

his big post but took it off immediately after.) Go ahead and look, town,

don was first. Further, Nameless uses a distancing tactic by saying he "disagrees" with this action. Why is this suspicious if simple disagreement is the strongest criticism that he can come up with?

don's posts brought this to my attention, and it is a strong scum tell.

I have more to say (a lot more, really), but I have expended all of the effort I can this evening. Seriously, lynch Nameless, he is so obviously scum it's not even funny. Also, sorry about the ugly ass line breaks.

[Atronach]

To start, I read Gera's claim with a great deal of skepticism. I realize there is no way to know how likely it is that there would be two trackers in the game. But the fact that two popped up in a row seems suspicious to me. However, I do not want to risk lynching him at this point so my vote stays off. I will add, for later discussion (read after D1), that we need to formulate a plan on confirming geraintm and IP.

I don't see a good case for lynching ChaosOmega other than he is not helping town by just sitting there. And putting him on my list seems useless when there's no way to know if he's actually scum or not.

Considering how close we are to deadline, I do not want to risk a no-lynch. So I would be willing to follow Megatheory's plan regarding don_johnson and Nameless as I think it has at least a chance of helping uncover scummy behavior. I wish I was more confident in the case against either of them, but I do not see any better alternatives.

[Danchaofan]

so MT doesn't mind lynching nameless, don, or ger? I'm not reading who CB or porkens (still) would like to lynch.

I do NOT want to lynch ger. If you would pay attention, you would notice most of my last post is devoted to arguing

against

his lynch.

don or Nameless should be lynched today.

Sorry, I probably had some of the names jumbled up. It was a rush post this morning before school started.

@nameless: I'm not done reading don and mt so I'm not sure who is lynch worthy. Right now I'm okay with a CB lynch, don or mt may be added depending on how my read goes.

[Danchaofan]

EBWOP: realized porkens also answered too... I'm not posting in the morning anymore... way to sleepy too =/

[geraintm]

just finished reread. all of geraintm's contributions have come at L-2.

really, juls said i was at l-1?

yep, planning how to deal with a tracker on day one when you are going to get results from otehr players seemed odd. i knew that i was going to be able to throw in a tracker result too for example, and i strongly suspect there will be mor epro-town info to come after night 1. i considered it a waste of time.

why did you not speak up previously? the discussion of what to do about ip carried on for several pages. why only mention this now?

quote="geraintm"]

RE: people planning penguin's future. not worth it, game will get twisted so much so fast, can't just plan now to ride one player like that.
[/quote]

i did. but there can be a lot of discussion overnight/over weekend when i am not around, and i doubt my posting on the topic would have changed things much anyway.

nice way to squeeze me in knowing full well my lynch is a consideration. way to cover your ass when i flip town.

it followed on quiet obviously from my previous post you would be in a short list? why you so surprised?
and it wasn't a scum list, just the people i found most odd. i explicitly said not a lynch list, way too long for that.

penguin was allowed to paraphrase. so are you. i suggest you both pm the mod. paraphrase your role pm's and send them to spyrex and let him decide if you are allowed to post. BOTH OF YOU SHOULD DO THIS. why would we have a "tracker"

and

a "jack of all trades"? reasonable, yes, but until i see some flavour i don't know who i can believe. why do you believe ip?

i did paraphrase, the mention of the shiny things bit. i could write out the entire email in slightly different words, but that would allow scum a much easier chance of faking their own claims later...or didn't that occur to you???

why no atronach. as i said, i am confused by him. does he really believe his attack on me? should probably have included him in the list.

Why would we have two trackers?

couple of reasons there could be.

You responded with this when asked to name your top suspects. You're not voting anyone. Can you explain this here?

why not voting, as i have said, i am generally slow with placing votes. haven't been sure enough to place one yet after penguin

Shot and Beheaded look like our two kill flavors. Ger, without quoting, can you share any clues you might have as to your kill flavor?

what purpose does this achieve? i haven't killed anyone yet.

ebwop: found this on wiki.

The Jack-of-all-trades is a role with

several night abilities

, such as investigating, protecting, etc. Once he has used a type of ability, he won't be able to use it again.

several implies more than two.

seriously, you are using that against me?

I think one of them is probably lying. I'm leaning toward this "double-tracker" joat role being the lie for the time being.

why do you think i am lying? has there been anything about my claim that strikes you as feeling untrue? have i not been forthcoming and given as much info as possible? what could i have done with my role to make you believe me more???

Re:post 255 - i am a terrible scum hunter, seriously bad at it. one reason i am so slow placing votes is i am usually wrong. it isn't so much bad play, rather i know my limitations.

meta answer: I'm pretty sure the JOAT role can have whichever powers the mod chooses..

side note: If IP and Ger are both telling the truth, and there are in fact two trackers...is it possible there could be 2 vigs?

Outing power roles a bit much?

I don't believe Gera. Partially because of the redundancy and partially because 1 tracker result is easy enough to fake and a SK or mafia could easily sacrifice 1 nk. I also don't trust Gera to follow the tracker discussion that he decided was worthless to realize that IP is under serious consideration for lynch even if he just hits one tracker result wrong, and IP isn't a 1-shot tracker.

why don't you believe me?
if i had made my claim first, without penguin's claim of tracker, would it have been more believable?
what would you do if i come up dead with the exact role i have described?

FAST FACTS
. He also an epic level hypocrit by calling someone lazy after posting so little of ANYTHING before now and being unable to use capital letters.

sorry, this amused me greatly, being called lazy for failure to press the shift key

Re: nameless' plan to direct my actions.
i am not going for this. not even going to say which role i am using tonight. want scum to not know if i am going to try and shoot one of them and likely fail, or try for a tracker. want to see if they are at all scared of my action and let them try and guess what i am going to do.

so MT doesn't mind lynching nameless, don, or ger? I'm not reading who CB or porkens (still) would like to lynch.

pay attention much? Mt specifically stated he believes geraintm and offered a viable solution for ger to confirm himself later in the game(self vig). come on man, we're close to deadline, the least you can do is RTFT.

sorry, the self vig thing was serious?? i assumed it was a joke?
people really expect me to kill myself??

i am simply trying to help town and avoid a no lynch. i have been accused of spending too much time focusing in one area, now that i offer to focus elsewhere, nameless gets back to his old tricks. for the record: i reread Atronach's posts in isolation and found no reason to vote them. geraintm is not the best at explaining himself, and atronach's interpretations, though flawed, are not scummy.

i find it hard to explain atronach's questions because i didn't see them as scummy, i had to sit there and go, "but but but...i wasn't doing anything" in response.

Yeah, see, you could say that about anything. Plenty of Gera's actions obviously benefit the scum (leaving a player at L-1, not contributing to discussion for quite a while, agreeing with Porkens' random lynch comment etc.), so why assume they come from a townie playing badly?

i never, ever left penguin at L-1. penguin fully claimed in post 162
don unvoted in post 163
i did not leave him at L-1, i left my vote on him. plum unvoted in 165, porkens in 186.
the agreeing with porkens i have said i considered totally out of this game and really a meta thing, no one at the time considered it fishy. sorry i didn't contribute enough earlier in the game, but if that is the case why aren't more people wanting to lynch chaos???