Mini 720 - SPQR Mafia {Game Over}

[Yosarian2]

(nods) As expected.

[Yosarian2]

Also, just to be sure no one misses it, let me repeat myself:

READ THIS TOMMOROW.

All right. I think I'm about to get lynched. After I get lynched and come up town, everyone please come back and take a good look at this part of the post tommorow. This should probably be the first thing everyone comments on tommorow, and anyone who refuses to do so, you should take a good look at.


EA is obv scum, and his most likely scum partners are Glork and El Destructo. After I die, stop following the three of them like sheep, please. Charter is possible too, but a little less likely. Coriolanus and Incognito are both looking very pro-town to me, and Assmaster is also probably town, though not as strongly as those two.

[OhGodMyLife]

Vote Count:

6 to lynch.

Yosarian2: 5 (Erratus Apathos, El Destructo, dahill1, charter, Glork)
dahill1: 2 (Tuberkulos, Coriolanus)
El Destructo: 2 (Incognito, Yosarian2)

Not Voting: 1 (Assmaster)

Deadline is 10 PM EST on January 21st. Votes after this time will not be counted, regardless of whether I am online to lock the thread or not.

[Coriolanus]

Incognito: El Destructo was in a gray area for a while (I wavered on the Glork argument, which was bad, but it read like a genuine effort) What sold it was the argument on Yosarian, which was well put. A lot of this hinges of Yos' alignment.

I'm going to hold off voting for yosarian until the last minute because I want to hold everyone accountable for not killing off dahill.

[Coriolanus]

that last sentence was terribly written, apologies. would anybody mind if tried that again?

I am not voting for yosarian until the last minute because I want to hold everyone accountable for not lynching dahill today.

[Glork]

Ok, so this whole Yos/EA thing had me thinking earlier in the day that they could be Scumbuddies, though I'm not sure how much I believe that or not.

My re-read of Pages 1-8 seem to confirm this. Yos and EA had a spat fairly early in D1 where they both went after each other (EA attacked Yos for his "contributions," Yos retorted by basically calling EA a hypocrite), then Yos and EA both very quickly changed the subject -- EA switching votes to RV, Yos unvoting Incog while expressing his general disapproval of Xtox.

I had remembered that this tiff stuck out to me during D1, when I commented on it (I believe I called it "interesting"), so when I saw Yos/EA going at it again during D2, it got me wondering about what Yos had actually done over the course of the game.

Sans-reread, this is how I had remembered Yos's D1:
--Yos jumps in on the Glork/Corio debate, wondering why Corio was being so defensive about being called an alt
--Spat with EA
--Jumps Xtox, rails Xtox pretty hard, doesn't say all that much for the rest of the day
--Debates with me over whether being "a safe lynch" is good, bad, neutral.


I still think it's pretty accurate, but a re-read reveals some more interesting tidbits.

First, the Corio thing. It looks like El Des just went over this, but in one post Yos said that whether Corio was an alt "wasn't that relevant," and in the very next post, he implies that he wants to know so he can possibly meta Corio, which makes Corio's identity extremely relevant. I guess Yos's defense is that his intentions changed. Any way you try to cut it, it looks flip-floppy to me.

Secondly, the whole Xtoxm "OMGUS" thing. I didn't notice it until just recently, but Yos grossly misrepresents the situation surrounding Xtoxm's OMGUS. What got me is that Yos was very careful to label Xtoxm's actions as "anti-town" rather than scummy, but when Xtoxm replied by saying "Sounds like someone knows I'm town," suddenly it was OMGUS. My understanding of OMGUS is that, by definition, it is attacking somebody for accusing you of being scum. I think if I had picked up on this at the time, it would have sent up a tiny red flag which would have caused me to back off Xtoxm a little bit and take a broader view (including scrutinizing Yos a bit more). Obivously that didn't happen, so all I'm left with is this feeling that Yos pulled a fast one on Xtox and the rest of us.

Third, Yos's behavior towards me has seemed weird. I don't like how he used Xtoxm's OMGUS against me as ammo to work Xtoxm, then said "I would suspect Glork except he's not scum with Xtoxm," then opened up D2 by defending my hammer while saying he "doesn't want to defend me" because he still thinks I'm suspicious. He also cites that in spite of only having issues with 30% of my play (by the way, Yos, I'd REALLY love to know where you pulled that number), he was "more worried" about that 30% with me than he would be with most people. I stated it at the time, but I hate comments like that, because they're largely bullshit. They don't make it any more or less worth suspecting somebody. After I call him on that, he blabs something about the difference in GlorkScum and GlorkTown being in the details of my post (which is odd, considering Pathetric seemed more concerend about my overall playstyle -- calling my Xtoxm vote "Space Monkey-like" or something), and ultimately settles for an IGMEOY.

One I just noticed while re-reading in the last ~20 mintues is this:

More to the point, why aren't more people voting Erratus Apathos? He is so obv scum if you just read his posts, that I can't understand why more people aren't voting him.

Deflecting for dahill now too are we?

Um...no, I don't think Dahill is scum, like I've said about a dozen times.

You might be perfectly happy blindly following a bandwagon on me, despite who is pushing it and the fact that none of them have even tried to give any kind of reason, but persoanlly, I'd rather lynch scum. You know, EA.

The closest you got to Dahill was when you said that you "didn't have a problem" with his play, which you uttered all of once, and only after Charter directly asked what you thought of him. For someone who made a big deal about Coro's overreaction to being called an alt, and my overreaction to getting heat for hammering, this doesn't look too good.

[Glork]

EBWOP: I think what I don't like about Yos' behavior towards me is that I would have expected him to have challenged me more directly. He seemed content to let Pathetric grill me D1 and simply nod his head in agreement, then on D2 he just kind of wimped out on the chance to drill me as well, just saying he thought my play was weird, a little suspicious, and that he had his eye on me.

[Coriolanus]

as i tried to say before, glork, i agree with you re: EA, but there are a lot of people i could see being scum with yos. you, for instance. that exchange with him was *awkward*, and yos lumping you in his suspect list could be bussing. "well, looks like i'm going to die, better confuse them by including my scumbuddy as a suspect."

it's just a thought. i think there's a much stronger case for dahill being scum with yos (his change of heart, for example), but that's also because i think there's a greater chance of dahill being scum.

[Glork]

you, for instance.

The sad thing is, if I were in your position, I'd probably be considering this, too. Not going to waste time with a defense now, but if Yos flips scum (which I'm assuming he will), rest assured I'll have a response prepared for tomorrow.

[Yosarian2]

Ok, so this whole Yos/EA thing had me thinking earlier in the day that they could be Scumbuddies, though I'm not sure how much I believe that or not.

Nice distancing, btw. It's not going to work once I come up dead and town, but it's a nice try.

First, the Corio thing. It looks like El Des just went over this, but in one post Yos said that whether Corio was an alt "wasn't that relevant," and in the very next post, he implies that he wants to know so he can possibly meta Corio, which makes Corio's identity extremely relevant. I guess Yos's defense is that his intentions changed. Any way you try to cut it, it looks flip-floppy to me.

(shrug) In theory, trying to find out if someone is an alt is a worthwhile thing to do, and anyone who attacked me on the grounds that it was not, I pointed out that they were wrong. In practice, in this specific case, I was much more interested in Corio's response. There's no contradiction.

Secondly, the whole Xtoxm "OMGUS" thing. I didn't notice it until just recently, but Yos grossly misrepresents the situation surrounding Xtoxm's OMGUS. What got me is that Yos was very careful to label Xtoxm's actions as "anti-town" rather than scummy, but when Xtoxm replied by saying "Sounds like someone knows I'm town," suddenly it was OMGUS. My understanding of OMGUS is that, by definition, it is attacking somebody for accusing you of being scum.

Right; I was attacking him, and clearly getting very close to voting him, so he OMGUS attacked me. I guess a "pre-emptive-OMGUS" would be more accurate.

I think if I had picked up on this at the time, it would have sent up a tiny red flag which would have caused me to back off Xtoxm a little bit and take a broader view (including scrutinizing Yos a bit more). Obivously that didn't happen, so all I'm left with is this feeling that Yos pulled a fast one on Xtox and the rest of us.

Oh, what a crock of BS. You knew Xtoxm was town, and you made sure he would get lynched while also making sure I would take the blame for it.

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, I want you guys to take a really close look at this tommorow, after my lynch.

I'm also pretty freakin sure there's a heap of stalling going on. With TWO wagons at 3 votes and 6 to lynch, I've got no doubt that the near completely lack of wagon growth is due to scum stalling. I'm also inclined to take this as a sign that there's a good chance one of Yos or dahill is scum. I think scum would be more likely to be active at deadline if the leading wagon was a mislynch and obviously much more nervous when it's one of their buddies who's about to get lynched.

Now, stop, read, and think about what he's trying to do here. He's trying to pressure me into voting Dahill, he's pulling a "either Dahill or Yos is scum" thing completly out of his ass, and he's trying to set up for two mislynches in a row.

This is the reason I wouldn't join the Dahill wagon. It's obvious to me that the scum have been hoping to get Dahill lynched today and me lynched tommorow, or the other way around, and they don't really care which one. I'd say there's like an 80% chance Dahill is town (it did drop some when he joined my wagon to save himself, but that's understandable anyway).

There's only a few ways this could have turned out.

1. Dahill lynched. Yos lynched tommorow. Both are town, town probably loses.

2. Yos lynched. Town (hopefully) listens to what Yos was saying once they realize he was town. Town had a decent chance.

3. Either EA or El Destructo lynched, flips scum, and proves me innocent. Town probably wins.

Option 1 was not acceptable.

I'm still not 100% sure Glork is the third member of the scum team, but the first two are definatly EA and El Destructo. Lynch one of them tommorow, come hell or high water.

[Yosarian2]

Incognito: El Destructo was in a gray area for a while (I wavered on the Glork argument, which was bad, but it read like a genuine effort) What sold it was the argument on Yosarian, which was well put. A lot of this hinges of Yos' alignment.

I'm going to hold off voting for yosarian until the last minute because I want to hold everyone accountable for not killing off dahill.

Or, you know, we could lynch one of the people that are actually scum. There's still time.

[Yosarian2]

Sorry to quadriple post, but

Can we get a mod-prod on Tuberkulos, please?

[Incognito]

I believe he was prodded already, but I too would like to see what he and Assmaster have to say.

[Glork]

I'm still not 100% sure Glork is the third member of the scum team, but the first two are definatly EA and El Destructo. Lynch one of them tommorow, come hell or high water.

2. Multiple OMGUS attacks.

3. After OMGUSing both me and Glork for suspecting him, he made the comment "everyone I suspect is voting for me", which seemed like a really bad "oh the scum are out to get me" defense. (Which, by the way, is why I mentioned on day 1 that I didn't think it was likely Xtoxm and Glork were scum together.)

I'm just going to leave that there and call it a day.

[Yosarian2]

I'm still not 100% sure Glork is the third member of the scum team, but the first two are definatly EA and El Destructo. Lynch one of them tommorow, come hell or high water.

2. Multiple OMGUS attacks.

3. After OMGUSing both me and Glork for suspecting him, he made the comment "everyone I suspect is voting for me", which seemed like a really bad "oh the scum are out to get me" defense. (Which, by the way, is why I mentioned on day 1 that I didn't think it was likely Xtoxm and Glork were scum together.)

I'm just going to leave that there and call it a day.

No, you're not.

Before I die, right now, I want to hear the excuse you're going to give for not voting either of the obvscums EA or El Destructo tommorow when I die and come up town.

[Erratus Apathos]

Yos looks more like he's just getting ready to roll over and die while dropping the least number of tells on his buddies, or, in the case that he isn't lynched today, giving himself the room to continue attacking EA tomorrow.

Or else it means that if the rest of the town would rather lynch me then take 5 minutes to read EA's posts for themselves and for their own opinion, and I haven't seen any sign yet that anyone has, then there's nothing else I can do for the town.

Yeah there is, you could post an

actual case

instead of constantly throwing around ridiculous baseless insults to everyone for not reaching the same conclusion as you. Not only are you not doing anything to actually convince others to vote me, but you're acting like it's unheard of for people to disagree with you. You know damn well that people aren't avoiding my wagon because they won't read/are blindly trusting me/whatever stupid shit you're spouting this time. That'd be a spit in the face to most newbies, much less a game that's like half Invitational players.

It's clear to me at least, that your fit of aspie rage is because something I did made you feel like you're entitled to my lynch. This is distinct from feeling like my lynch is best for the town, in that you would try to convince everyone to lynch me rather than angrily demand that they do. Yos2 is scum, end of story.

I thought I posted this, but i must have deleted it or something, but Yos' push on EA is similar to his on Xtox yesterday in that he's not showing us any evidence that he's seriously considering EA as part of a scum-team.

Uh, I never do that, because it's stupid. First you find one scum, you lynch him, and then you look for his scumbuddies. Vauge speculation built on an assumption on an early part of the game is just bad play. Now, endgame when there's a very limited number of suspects left, sure, try and figure out the whole scumgroup by connections and process of eliminitation; but on day 1 or day 2? Pfft.

Also, this is hilarious now that you've suddenly decided the whole scumgroup is me, Destructo, and Glork.

Please, someone hammer before deadline.

[Glork]

I'm still not 100% sure Glork is the third member of the scum team, but the first two are definatly EA and El Destructo. Lynch one of them tommorow, come hell or high water.

2. Multiple OMGUS attacks.

3. After OMGUSing both me and Glork for suspecting him, he made the comment "everyone I suspect is voting for me", which seemed like a really bad "oh the scum are out to get me" defense. (Which, by the way, is why I mentioned on day 1 that I didn't think it was likely Xtoxm and Glork were scum together.)

I'm just going to leave that there and call it a day.

No, you're not.

Before I die, right now, I want to hear the excuse you're going to give for not voting either of the obvscums EA or El Destructo tommorow when I die and come up town.

Bzzt. Wrong answer.

I'll give you one more shot at reconciling the two quoted segments of post.

[OhGodMyLife]

Tuberkulos has a little more than six hours to post before he gets replaced. Deadline will not change, regardless.

[Coriolanus]

Unvote
Vote Yosarian

at least i support this lynch for reasons outside of necessity.

[OhGodMyLife]

Vote Count:

6 to lynch.

Yosarian2: 6 (Erratus Apathos, El Destructo, dahill1, charter, Glork, Coriolanus)
El Destructo: 2 (Incognito, Yosarian2)
dahill1: 1 (Tuberkulos)

Not Voting: 1 (Assmaster)

One senator, Yosarian2, just can't seem to accept that Xtoxm was, in fact, on the same side as him. As he insists on going through the dead man's personal effects to be sure, a majority of the remaining debaters decide they've had quite enough, and send Yosarian2 to join his comrade in that long slumber.

Yosarian2 -

Conspirator

- Lynched Day Two

It is now Night Two. Deadline for night actions is 72 hours.

[OhGodMyLife]

There is a muffled cry as a blade stealthily pierces the heart of one of Rome's most renowned senators, as famous for his oration as he is for his fickle sense of loyalty. No doubt he would have been a great political ally to either side at the end of all of this, but alas, Coriolanus will speak no more on the senate floor.

Coriolanus -

Cicero, Neutral Survivor

- Killed Night Two

It is now Day Three. With 8 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

[Tuberkulos]

I'll have to re-read from atleast page 20 so I can catch up on what have happened since the last time I checked the thread. Sorry for the inconvenience caused by my absence. I'll do my best to post in the same manner as before.

[dahill1]

hmm
i'm definitely considering a massclaim today as if we mislynch there's a high chance that we'll lose

[charter]

dahill, el destructo, and who else?