Mini 730 - Hard Nights in the City - OVER!

[Danchaofan]

@Juls:
1. I feel I'm more likely believe a female is innocent and have less problems with pegging another male as scum.
2. Discussion on flavor? I just wanted to see how IP's tracker fit into this whole apocalypse flavor thats going on. If he said his role pm just said, "you are a tracker, you get to see what people do at night, you win with town", that would be suspicious, no?

Thoughts on tracker:
I think MT's theory works but I'd be willing to extend his life given good behavior

If he's really a tracker, and given 3 scum, and no town visiting roles, you're giving him a 75% chance of

not

fulfilling your criteria and getting lynched.

Assuming only one mafia does the killing wouldn't it be closer to 11/12 chance of not fulfilling MT's criteria?

[Nameless]

Alright, I'm not going to be directly replying to most of what Don has said in his last few posts and probably won't for the rest of the day because as much as I enjoy repeating myself in a slightly more sarcastic tone of voice, it's really not helping the town at this point and I'd rather spend my time looking into some other players than pointing out yet another exageration or meaningless and unexplained "wifomic" from Don*. (It also helps that Plum beat me to the punch with a few things in #270.) The sad part is, at the moment I'm not even completely sure he's scum rather a well intentioned but overly dramatic townie.

* (I'm serious, how Don defines it in #272 applies to literally the entire town game of scumhunting. WTF. Also, try calming down before you post and see if that helps.)

would you find it suspicious if i wrote [nameless and juls are the scummiest two players i see. vote: danchaofan.]

Only depending on the context.

this is a complete 180.

Given I still consider IP highly likely to be scum and the larger part of the reason I'm moving on from that is out of my control (what others have decided), it's really not. But go ahead and try to justify that statement. For bonus points, mathematically!

my reasons for voting you are sound. i have not implied that you have done anything i cannot prove.

You can prove a loner vibe that equals SK now? (At least, that hilarious and cutting retort still holds if I've actually managed to wrap my mind around that confusing statement right.)

please explain this strawman. 262 is a list of questions determined to help me understand what juls is talking about.

Uh, "veiled threats" for one. Adding a question mark to the end of your misconstrued recap of Juls' plan doesn't make it a question and okay. "so we lynch them(even if they are a town pr) on ip's word?" is pretty obviously not what Juls said in #224.

also, no one has explained why using the doctor to towns advantage is bad. in fact, you and juls just keep reiterating the fact that it is bad, but have not come up with a plausible scenario where it is bad.

Well, I did in #226, and it's not exactly a subtle problem. But since you in #272 you admit it's meaningless to the doctor it would raise the question why you keep doing so.

Okay, that was more direct replying than I intended to do. Enough of that. I do like and agree with Atronach's analysis of Gera. To be honest I pegged Gera as Another Bad Player early on and haven't paid as much attention to him yet as I should have. (Let's ... just say he wasn't the only one in this category and it's something I need to start avoiding to improve my town play.) After rereading, I would support a geraintm lynch.

@ Plum, I

may

have forgotten the V/LA. Or I might have made the statement as a trap in hope of tripping up an inatentive scum and more the point

you can't conclusively prove either.

Seriously, though, the quality of Porkens' posts has gone up a bit and as much as I hate myself for letting an issue slide even temporarily due to meta ... (But that's really not saying much given what it was at.)

Um. I hope #275 is only the start of the reread, or that's just sad and really reinforcing why you're a good lynch.

[Danchaofan]

Does IP, possibly being in a scum team that possibly has a tracker affect MT's or Jul's plan?

Mod: why is "The Are Juls really from the Devil Votecount:" not bolded?

Why, what are you talking about?

I think we need a lynch, IP and I are the wagon leaders (admittedly only at 2 votes per >.<) which is bad since I know I'm town and IP is an uncc tracker. So, anyone that I'm (for now) ignoring everyone that is giving me a remotely town vibe (plum, porkens, nameless) and IP and me and will proceed to "scum hunt". If on re-read I come off with a town vibe, that will be noted and for now they will be added to my ignore list.

@Juls:

I personally don’t get

some

of the arguments against Nameless. Especially the one where he listed his scum-pair. I agree that it could be hurtful in a sense but I see it as not well thought out; not necessarily scummy. What is the difference in FoSing 3 people and doing what he did?

What's the difference between proposing a scum-pair and 2 FoS's?

And christ, I hope someone does quckhammer. that'll certainly give some direction to day two.

This statement insinuates that you know IP to be town and that the hammerer would get backlash from the rest of town in Day 2. I realize this argument is a bit of a stretch but if Porkens turns out to be scum later in the game I want it to be

noted

.

We quickhammer scum- thats bound to give direction. A town is quickhammered- the qh is under scrutiny and the rest of the wagon is going to get looked over- thats a nice direction.

more later...

[Danchaofan]

@ Plum- In reading a bit of the Mafia wiki, I probably should have FOSed and not voted you. With that in mind I'll unvote for now; there are people I find much more suspicious than the people Ive felt were lurking.

There wasn't really the follow up detailing your suspicions at the time that I would have wanted. Your following posts seem to jump around hunting one person at a time (juls and dj). I don't feel a solid connection between your cases or you following up any suspicions or actively perusing a lynch. I'm going to move on to some other people and come back to you to see how it fits in with others sentiments at the time.

I was not at all suspicious of the "why the what" until this post, it is disingenuous to say this was to try to appear like a noob when your start date is right underneath your avatar. This smells...like scum.

I don't follow the logic. I'd rather have gera respond first though. I think the other points seem solid.

[Danchaofan]

Suggestion: everyone posts a list of people you wouldn't mind lynching. We can resort to this as a an alternative lynch if no one is able to convince a significant audience for your first choice lynch. i.e. if there 7+ agreeing that someone is okay for a lynch (but not necessarily the best person to lynch), we can stack some votes on this and someone can hammer at deadline if we are unable to come consensus for a better candidate.

Coming after atronach's post gera seems fishy. I can acknowledge that I'm hypocritical in chiding gera for a lack of substance (I seriously thought I was more active here, I must be confusing my content level in this game with another). However, I do think in gera's case it's more sever considering his join date.

[Danchaofan]

I'm going to take a quick break and look at another game. Bovine, Don, and MT seem to have a lot of posts and that entails possibly too much time for tonight...

[Nameless]

What gives you a town vibe from Porkens, and why are you defending him in #277?

Right now I'm willing to lynch: geraintm, Danchaofan, don_johnson, Porkens. In that order, even. Not that it really needs saying, but if anybody posts their own list but doesn't adhere to it come Thursday, consider it suspicious. I presume Danchaofan will post one himself as soon as he's finished rereading.

(Yes, I still think IP is probably scum, but upon consideration of recent discussion, I've decided it might prove telling to watch the actions of certain players if IP is alive D2.)

[Juls]

@Juls:

I personally don’t get some of the arguments against Nameless. Especially the one where he listed his scum-pair. I agree that it could be hurtful in a sense but I see it as not well thought out; not necessarily scummy. What is the difference in FoSing 3 people and doing what he did?

What's the difference between proposing a scum-pair and 2 FoS's?

Huh? Nothing IMO. You asked the same question I asked right back to me with different numbers. Please reask if you meant something else, I don't understand.

Juls wrote:

And christ, I hope someone does quckhammer. that'll certainly give some direction to day two.

This statement insinuates that you know IP to be town and that the hammerer would get backlash from the rest of town in Day 2. I realize this argument is a bit of a stretch but if Porkens turns out to be scum later in the game I want it to be

noted.

We quickhammer scum- thats bound to give direction. A town is quickhammered- the qh is under scrutiny and the rest of the wagon is going to get looked over- thats a nice direction.

My point was that what if someone quickhammered and the lynch was a mafia player. Porkens suggested that he knew IP to be town in that post. After I thought about it though we don't really gain anything from my statement other than maybe if Porkens does turn out to be scum I get to say "yep I knew it". I don't think I would use that assumption to lynch Porkens.

Suggestion: everyone posts a list of people you wouldn't mind lynching.

I don't mind posting 2-3 people but if everyone else follows please don't list your most townie, that only helps scum with their NK.

Who I wouldn't be opposed to lynching: DCF, don, geraintm, porkens

OK so that is 4. I want geraintm's responses to his recent accusations (including mine in my epic-book post). And I also still have not seen anything from DCF to change my vote.

[don_johnson]

okay. post 226 is a short explanation of why leading the doctor can be bad, however, you are ignoring the current situation of an uncc'd power role. doc can do as they wish and i will drop the subject. i must point out that noone has even discussed my ideas. i don't get it.

also, i am not understanding juls plan at all. that is why i asked her questions. she said she didn't want anyone to counter ip's investigation. i get that, "if you are a town pr don't reveal yourself". however, then we are left with the quandary of who to lynch. the later idea of ip keeping their results a secret is a good one, however, if they are nk'd night two then we lose results. perhaps we should compromise and ask ip to reveal results in twilight? i really don't know here, what i am hoping is to form a good strategy so that we don't just waste our tracker(if he is who he says he is).

You can prove a loner vibe that equals SK now? (At least, that hilarious and cutting retort still holds if I've actually managed to wrap my mind around that confusing statement right.)

i did not say loner vibe = sk. i said it points to it. in my opinion. also, by the phrases you choose to use i can prove

why

i'm getting a loner vibe. you have yet to

prove

your strawman accusation(see above). part of the reason i keep on you, nameless, is because of statements where you have been putting words in my mouth. to me that is scummy. if you want me to stop responding then i will ask that you stop spinning my arguments.

"veiled threats" refers to the obsession players have with using their vote in a threatening manner. "you better knock it off or i'll vote you." it seems more of a scum tactic. this being a team game, townies are often asked to "take one for the team" because their mislynches will provide valuable information. townies, especially

vanilla townies

, should really not be afraid of peoples votes and should therefore see no benefit to using them in a threatening manner. therefore i generally associate threats being a daylight strong arm tactic used by mafia who seem to have good standing with the town. that's what i mean.

would you find it suspicious if i wrote [nameless and juls are the scummiest two players i see. vote: danchaofan.] ]

Only depending on the context.

well place this in the context it was in in ip's post. complete with numerical scores.

unvote

*tears up fliers, tosses buttons into garbage can*

it is obvious noone sees what i am seeing. my only logical solution is to admit i have had tunnel vision for a few pages, go back and reread a bit.

[geraintm]

unvote

why do you think nameless named three? does that strike you as suspicious(aside from the

general

suspiciousness of the statement)?

at the time, i didn't think anything of it.

what stirkes me as odd is that he would choose three as his number. two night kills, one a beheading, and he chooses a "three" player scum team. are you thinking two or three scum? my thought is that tossing out a three player scum team may be an sk trying to throw town off track. i am speculating, but until more discussion ensues or nameless comes up with something better my vote will stay. consider it a pressure vote at this point.

ok, am i missing something here.
mod killed sheriff and deputy. he didn't kill any players, he just made sure we knew there was no cop or deputy in the game.

i didn't ever at any point think that these were killed by scum or sk. i just assumed it was there for flavour, mod telling us this game had no cop in it and we weren't getting it.
or am i really being thick about this?
am i the only one who thinks this????
no one else at all has brought this up all weekend?????

sorry for so many ?s, but i find this point just bewildering.

from this, i have to say i don;t think it is unlikely there is isn't a tracker in the game, fits flavour wise with the lack of cops. when penguin said something about can he reveal his message from mod, that i liked because i thought in this game it would be likely mod had put in something like that.
i don't normally try and meta the game setup and mod, seemed a tiny help there though

juls post 224 - yeah, i did it for fun. it was day one, before the game had begun. when else do you suggest doing things for fun??

re: leaving my vote on. i suppose i could have taken it off, but i felt totally sure that he wasn't going to get lynched over the weekend, and if he did then the risk i took him getting lynched was worth it to see who lynched him

RE: people planning penguin's future. not worth it, game will get twisted so much so fast, can't just plan now to ride one player like that.

plum - i am not lurking. i post nearly ever week day. that ain't lurking.

Post #126: He claims he doesn't realize an emoticon means something is a joke then spouts very generic advice about scumpairing. Nothing remotely substantive here.

the emoiticon was =P, one i don't use ever myself. i missed it. i think someone else did too.

re: random lynching. sorry if my post was misunderstood. my job is stats so i was just sorta going through the maths of day ones. i was trying to talk in a vague sense in response to someone else's comment

Further, he votes IP in the same post. Right after Nameless takes his vote off, geraintm is the one that puts him back at L-1. His only reasoning: wanting a proper claim. He is the one that forced IP to claim his power role. He jumped from "we should random vote" to pressuring IP for a "proper claim". This early? Very suspicious.

why was this suspicious? penguin hadn't claimed, i felt he should not be allowed to get away without a proper claim. hence my vote? it wasn't a jump from random vote to my vote for penguin, the random vote thing was purely a meta discussion.

can i ask how my line about penguin being the best person to vote for at the time contradicts me voting for him for evasive claiming?
i really don't get the contradiction there?

Heya, Geraintm, let me dig up a quote:

i generally tend to be slo in placing votes and slow in changing them
i felt at the time penguin was the best person to vote for
i have not found anyone yet who i think is vote-worthy. i am sure there will be something over the weekend to make me change my mind

Well??? And did this mean that your preferred lynch at the time was IP (potential Tracker IP, that is)? Expound, if you please.

when i voted for penguin, i felt at the time the best person to be voting for was penguin. he hadn't claimed tracker at that stage. what do you need me to expand on?

post 279 - why are people looking at my join date? i had i think about a years gap in there somewhere, and i am not a massive player, i normally have one newbie/one larger game on the go at once.

[Danchaofan]

Before I go to bed:
I'm not too sure where from. I'll read him (and my other town candidates) after reading my scum candidates to see if the town vibes are warranted.

@nameless: I (still) didn't see how Juls made the conclusion that porken's statement implied that he knew IP's alignment. From what I understand, Juls implies that a qh would only give direction if and only if IP is town. However, I wanted to point out that a qh could give direction regardless of IP's alignment. In hindsight I probably should have allowed Pork to comment before jumping in.

@Juls: If I remember correctly you are of the belief that discussing scum pairs D1 is bad, so if you parallel D1 discussion of 3-scum-groups to 3 FoS's and say it's not so bad, then what's wrong with comparing scum pair speculations to 2 FoS's and saying it's not so bad.

@don: discussion of what the doc should do gives an idea to maf who the doc will protect giving them a better chance have a successful kill. Not good eh? Announcing in twilight doesn't help as mafia still get to make use of the information albeit marginally less time to contemplate the results. Please post a list of people you wouldn't mind seeing lynched.

[don_johnson]

@don: discussion of what the doc should do gives an idea to maf who the doc will protect giving them a better chance have a successful kill. Not good eh? Announcing in twilight doesn't help as mafia still get to make use of the information albeit marginally less time to contemplate the results. Please post a list of people you wouldn't mind seeing lynched.

current top three:

1) nameless
2) Juls
3) ip

i have already explained why ip and nameless fit into my list. juls has been strawmanning all day in regards to my posting. this could be a miscommunication issue, as i am obviously not understanding her "nobody counter ip's findings" bit, however, she has exhibited what i find to be scum tells with both the veiled threat of a vote and her putting words into my mouth. if you need to i can digf up the quotes, but if you read my posts in isolation you can find all my responses to juls. also, both her and nameles have rather stealthily worked me into their top three lynch lists based on facts that really aren't scum tells. i know you disagree with discussing what the doctor should do, and i have since droppped that discussion, but in the context of utilizing our uncc'd tracker i believe it is more than a viable subject for discussion.

i am not going to imply a scum pairing here as i don't think that's the case, but i could easily see one of the two of them as scum buddying up to town. nameless "isolation" wordings in his posts have him as my most likely scum, but alas, there is inevitably some omgus in my findings. i do think that one of the two of them is scum as they have been supporting each other quite a bit and have both exhibited the unconscionable manuvre of putting words into my mouth. nameless accused me of strawmanning because i asked juls questions in order to clarify her position.

other than that, i just seem to rank high on both of their lists for my use of the word wifom, and my persistence in trying to decide on a town strategy to deal with our "tracker", which it seems as though everyone is abandoning at this point. my list is under review, but i am not going to lynch someone for "lurking". not on day 1. it leaves us with nothing to go on.

[Juls]

@Danchaofan - It was don and a couple others that had a problem with Nameless naming a scum-pairing. I do not have a problem with it. The only thing I have mentioned having a problem with in regards to Nameless is him throwing out several arguments and possibly muddying the water with "over analysis".

And second, my point with Porkens was that he was inviting a quickhammer to "provide information". If IP is town the quickhammer does provide a little bit to go on but if he is scum I don't think it does provide much information. That is why I mentioned that Porkens may already know IPs alignment. I guess technically if IP were scum and someone quickhammered they "could" be scum bussing in order to end conversation but it is a little less likely. It wasn't my best point I admit. It sounded more interesting in my head than when I typed it. I even said at the time of making it that it was a "stretch" and I further expanded on that in post#282

[Juls]

this could be a miscommunication issue, as i am obviously not understanding her "nobody counter ip's findings" bit,

Answered in post #257 and post #263. But I guess I will answer it again...That is based on

if we used my plan

. The goal is to keep power roles hidden. The hypothetical where IP says:"DJ targetted Plum last night". and to avoid being targetted you say "no wait! I am a watcher!". If you were to do that and we had already agreed to my plan to just ignore IPs claims until he is proven by his death then I would assume you to be scum trying to get out of it.

@All...I realize my follow on suggestion that IP wait until he is L-1 to reveal is risky if he is NK. I am definately open to more suggestions. I need to go back and read MT's again.

-Penguin can only get off the hook if he finds a player who targeted a dead player.
-If that player is lynched and comes up scum, penguin should be lynched unless he finds another player who targeted a dead player.
-This continues until penguin does not find a scum or three scum are dead. At that point, penguin is lynched.
-We guarantee that penguin does not survive until endgame.

OK. So basically we treat him as a one-shot tracker and then if he finds scum he gets another shot. I can go with this. @IP - if you really are the tracker and we go with this strategy please don't lie to stay in the game. Your goal is for town to win, not for you to stay alive.

she has exhibited what i find to be scum tells with both the veiled threat of a vote and her putting words into my mouth.

The point of the threat was to get you to SHUT UP plain and simple. I was trying to give you every opportunity to realize that what you were doing is anti-town and you should cut it out. The more you kept it up the more you looked scummy...and I can't help but notice you STILL continue to talk about it. Not leading anymore but completely keeping it in the discussion when everyone else is trying to move on from it.

also, both her and nameles have rather stealthily worked me into their top three lynch lists

I can't speak for Nameless but I voted you in post #94, mention suspicions in post #224, and then of course there is #259, #261, and #263. That's not stealthy. You weren't top of my list when I posted my long post but you certainly weren't super townie to me either.

i just seem to rank high on both of their lists for my use of the word wifom

Quotes please? The only time I even mention you and WIFOM is when you accuse Nameless of WIFOM and I said I didn't agree that was WIFOM, but nowhere in there did I mention being suspicious of you because your use of the word. I think you have me confused with Plum?

and my persistence in trying to decide on a town strategy to deal with our "tracker",

Read: leading the doctor.

but i am not going to lynch someone for "lurking". not on day 1. it leaves us with nothing to go on.

Good point.

Unvote. Vote Don_Johnson

[SpyreX]

The Porkens, beating the empire one chicken at a time Votecount:

Gerantim (1): Atronach
Danchaofan (1): Nameless
Don_johnson (1): Juls
ChaosOmega (1): canadianbovine
Insanepenguin02 (1): ChaosOmega

With 12 birds chirping, it takes 7 of you to become a murder of crows.

Deadline is Thursday, January 22nd 10:30 PM PST.

[don_johnson]

this could be a miscommunication issue, as i am obviously not understanding her "nobody counter ip's findings" bit,

Answered in post #257 and post #263. But I guess I will answer it again...That is based on

if we used my plan

. The goal is to keep power roles hidden. The hypothetical where IP says:"DJ targetted Plum last night". and to avoid being targetted you say "no wait! I am a watcher!". If you were to do that and we had already agreed to my plan to just ignore IPs claims until he is proven by his death then I would assume you to be scum trying to get out of it.

no. not answered. the above paragraph makes no sense to me. why? if ip targets someone, finds out they went somewhere. we do nothing until ip dies? i don't see how that works to anyones advantage. your plan makes little sense to me. it gives ip and those he targets a free pass until when, exactly? i'm not trying to argue with you on this, i just don't see what you are trying to accomplish with this plan.

-Penguin can only get off the hook if he finds a player who targeted a dead player.
-If that player is lynched and comes up scum, penguin should be lynched unless he finds another player who targeted a dead player.
-This continues until penguin does not find a scum or three scum are dead. At that point, penguin is lynched.
-We guarantee that penguin does not survive until endgame.

OK. So basically we treat him as a one-shot tracker and then if he finds scum he gets another shot. I can go with this. @IP - if you really are the tracker and we go with this strategy please don't lie to stay in the game. Your goal is for town to win, not for you to stay alive.

this is a good idea, however it goes against your plan juls. what if ip tracks a town pr? the only way to know if ip finds scum is to lynch whoever he fingers, right?

she has exhibited what i find to be scum tells with both the veiled threat of a vote and her putting words into my mouth.

The point of the threat was to get you to SHUT UP plain and simple. I was trying to give you every opportunity to realize that what you were doing is anti-town and you should cut it out. The more you kept it up the more you looked scummy...and I can't help but notice you STILL continue to talk about it. Not leading anymore but completely keeping it in the discussion when everyone else is trying to move on from it.

i get the feeling you don't like me or something. i get alot of negative emotion from your posts. discussing strategy is not anti-town. discussing town pr set up's on day 1 is. trying to utilize everything at towns disposal in order to not only confirm a claimed pr but also find scum is not. funny, you have now admitted to threatenging me in order to get your point across. veiled threats are scummy. why do you think i would fear your vote?

]also, both her and nameles have rather stealthily worked me into their top three lynch lists

I can't speak for Nameless but I voted you in post #94, mention suspicions in post #224, and then of course there is #259, #261, and #263. That's not stealthy. You weren't top of my list when I posted my long post but you certainly weren't super townie to me either.

i apologize for lumping you together. i certainly should not. it will give the wrong impression. sorry, but my feelings on how i am climbing the charts still stands.

[Juls]

this is a good idea, however it goes against your plan juls. what if ip tracks a town pr? the only way to know if ip finds scum is to lynch whoever he fingers, right?

According to MT's plan the only way we keep IP alive beyond D2 is he must find someone who targetted the person (or one of the persons) that get night killed. If he doesn't we lynch him. IP will not be confirmed until he dies so he has to die at some point.

if ip targets someone, finds out they went somewhere. we do nothing until ip dies? i don't see how that works to anyones advantage.

My suggestion was we don't use that as a sole reason to lynch someone. I admit there are flaws in my plan as pointed out by others so I am willing to go another direction. I was just trying to put an idea out there, it wasn't meant to be set in stone. I think most agree MT's is a better plan and I am fine with his plan. MT had asked for some solutions so I was trying to give a possible one. My biggest hope is that if IP is the tracker we can still protect any town power roles but it's a difficult thing to do with mafia listening in on the conversation.

i get the feeling you don't like me or something. i get alot of negative emotion from your posts.

As your signature says...I don't know you. I feel though that I have to put things in the plainest of language for you to understand because you are either over analyzing things or becoming overly defensive.

Not game Related: Out of curiousity, why suggest that I "don't like you" when you didn't suggest the same for nameless or megatheory during your arguments with them. Is it because I am female?

[don_johnson]

Not game Related: Out of curiousity, why suggest that I "don't like you" when you didn't suggest the same for nameless or megatheory during your arguments with them. Is it because I am female?

could be subconsciously, but i don't believe so. neither of us seems to understand the other and we both feel as though we are using "the plainest of language". when you all caps phrases like "shut up" i take it personally. i am trying to gauge how much of your suspicion of me is based on what i am saying, and how much is based on you not liking how i am saying it. like i said, i have been a victim of tunnel vision with nameless, but it is what he is saying that gets me. how he says it bothers me, but i expect it from scum. the actual words and phrases he has chosen to get his points across are what i am suspicious of. i didn't have you pegged as scum before, but this constant inability to understand each other has to stem from somehwere. if its not that my style bothers you, and its not that we are just misunderstanding each other, then it must mean that you are scum. so i guess the answer is yes. you are female and i do not want you to be scum.

[Juls]

i am trying to gauge how much of your suspicion of me is based on what i am saying, and how much is based on you not liking how i am saying it.

My suspicions of you are based on:
1) talking about lylo on day 1 and I feel preparing an escape clause for yourself if MT turns out to be town.
2) being distracting. This is the third "fight" that you have started and have difficulty ending. you and MT had the theory discussion, you had your button/flyer campaign for nameless with few real bites, and now with me, you wouldn't end the doctor discussion despite at least 4 people suggesting it is a bad idea.
3) you were leading the doctor despite being asked to stop.
4) you targetting me in an OMGUS kind of way and the other person who finds you suspicious just happens to be on your lynch list. And the third person on your list is IP which at least 3/4 of us find suspicious.

[Atronach]

@ Plum- In reading a bit of the Mafia wiki, I probably should have FOSed and not voted you. With that in mind I'll unvote for now; there are people I find much more suspicious than the people Ive felt were lurking.

There wasn't really the follow up detailing your suspicions at the time that I would have wanted. Your following posts seem to jump around hunting one person at a time (juls and dj). I don't feel a solid connection between your cases or you following up any suspicions or actively perusing a lynch. I'm going to move on to some other people and come back to you to see how it fits in with others sentiments at the time.

I was not at all suspicious of the "why the what" until this post, it is disingenuous to say this was to try to appear like a noob when your start date is right underneath your avatar. This smells...like scum.

I don't follow the logic. I'd rather have gera respond first though. I think the other points seem solid.

(Yes, I still think IP is probably scum, but upon consideration of recent discussion, I've decided it might prove telling to watch the actions of certain players if IP is alive D2.)

Post #126: He claims he doesn't realize an emoticon means something is a joke then spouts very generic advice about scumpairing. Nothing remotely substantive here.

the emoiticon was =P, one i don't use ever myself. i missed it. i think someone else did too.

re: random lynching. sorry if my post was misunderstood. my job is stats so i was just sorta going through the maths of day ones. i was trying to talk in a vague sense in response to someone else's comment

Further, he votes IP in the same post. Right after Nameless takes his vote off, geraintm is the one that puts him back at L-1. His only reasoning: wanting a proper claim. He is the one that forced IP to claim his power role. He jumped from "we should random vote" to pressuring IP for a "proper claim". This early? Very suspicious.

why was this suspicious? penguin hadn't claimed, i felt he should not be allowed to get away without a proper claim. hence my vote? it wasn't a jump from random vote to my vote for penguin, the random vote thing was purely a meta discussion.

can i ask how my line about penguin being the best person to vote for at the time contradicts me voting for him for evasive claiming?
i really don't get the contradiction there?

Heya, Geraintm, let me dig up a quote:

i generally tend to be slo in placing votes and slow in changing them
i felt at the time penguin was the best person to vote for
i have not found anyone yet who i think is vote-worthy. i am sure there will be something over the weekend to make me change my mind

Well??? And did this mean that your preferred lynch at the time was IP (potential Tracker IP, that is)? Expound, if you please.

when i voted for penguin, i felt at the time the best person to be voting for was penguin. he hadn't claimed tracker at that stage. what do you need me to expand on?

post 279 - why are people looking at my join date? i had i think about a years gap in there somewhere, and i am not a massive player, i normally have one newbie/one larger game on the go at once.

[Atronach]

Sorry, I hit submit instead of preview to make sure I had all the quotes right before I typed analysis. Give me a second

[Nameless]

You know, there really is a difference between suggesting a scumpairing and multiple FoSs. The first implies connections as well, whereas the second is just independant scumminess.

I notice Juls gives the same Lynch List as I do, which is either coincidental, or indicitive that we are both awesome scumhunters (probably not the later). Don has us both on his, and doesn't mention this fact (only that he's on both). Juls already responded to this, but it bears repeating ... there has been nothing "stealthy" about my arguments with Don and ongoing suspicion thereof. I'd say he was strawmanning, but Don is throwing that word around almost as much as wifom. Nevertheless, take note that Don ignores the majority of the reasons I'd lynch him (for a summary, please see #246.)

Another thing that I find suspicious, is that despite nearing deadline and still listing me as his #1 lynch candidate, Don unvotes me. He says "it is obvious noone sees what i am seeing." even when several posts

have

indicated similar suspicion of me (I've even made Plum's scummy mashup!). He apparently admits tunnel vission, but continues making misleading statements about myself. Basically, without any obvious trigger or change of position, Don has unvoted as we near deadline.

This is a bad thing, and I'd love to hear an explanation for it.

the actual words and phrases [Nameless] has chosen to get his points across are what i am suspicious of.

I've been suspected from semantics, from someone who can't even use the term WIFOM sensibly. Well that's just great. Sigh.

I find Gera's a DCFs latest posts rather weak and unhelpful. Mafia, please NK them. Think how much more fun LyLo would be with only the most active players left! And you know any docs wouldn't bother protecting them. Come on, do it. What are you, afraid? [/Does not think this helping. ]

Anyway, players need to get their butts in here and start lynching now.

Sorry, I hit submit instead of preview to make sure I had all the quotes right before I typed analysis.

Whee, sneak preview!

[Atronach]

Your following posts seem to jump around hunting one person at a time (juls and dj). I don't feel a solid connection between your cases or you following up any suspicions or actively perusing a lynch.

You are going to have to do a lot to convince me that I should have been seeking a lynch on those two that early in the game. I do not find pursuing lynches is as useful as pursuing scum that far from deadline.

Post #126: He claims he doesn't realize an emoticon means something is a joke then spouts very generic advice about scumpairing. Nothing remotely substantive here.

the emoiticon was =P, one i don't use ever myself. i missed it. i think someone else did too.

I'll look back and see who that "someone else" was since I know you will not. Even with that though, I'm not buying it. It is none-the-less suspicious.

[quote"geraintm"]re: random lynching. sorry if my post was misunderstood. my job is stats so i was just sorta going through the maths of day ones. i was trying to talk in a vague sense in response to someone else's comment[/quote]

I don't think it was misunderstood at all. It

was

vague. That's the reason it stood out to me as suspicious. It looks like a vague suggestion for a random lynch.

why was this suspicious? penguin hadn't claimed, i felt he should not be allowed to get away without a proper claim. hence my vote? it wasn't a jump from random vote to my vote for penguin, the random vote thing was purely a meta discussion.

Even with the random lynch jump aside, you put him back at L-1 and forced a power role to claim.

can i ask how my line about penguin being the best person to vote for at the time contradicts me voting for him for evasive claiming?
i really don't get the contradiction there?

It is because you stood behind your vote even after he had claimed.

[Juls]

I notice Juls gives the same Lynch List as I do, which is either coincidental, or indicitive that we are both awesome scumhunters (probably not the later).

I noticed this too but I honestly had no idea what your list was when I posted. I was forming my post during the time you submitted. I did not know your list until after I submitted.

[Megatheory]

Since it has come up a few times, I want to put this out there and get some discussion on it:

I think the opening flavor is definitely intended to indicate that there are no cops in this game. Not only was an NPC cop killed, but an NPC backup cop also. It's also become hip and trendy to avoid the doc/cop combo in setups, as well as eschewing cops altogether. If anybody knows anything about Spyrex (the mod) and his general take on cops, that might help in sorting this out.

However, I don't think we should conclude that there is definitely a serial killer or two scumgroups until we have an actual night phase. Two kills could just mean that the mod wanted to eliminate the possibility of a cop or backup cop. Two different killing

methods

, however, does indicate that there may be a serial killer. Ultimately, we don't know anything until there is at least one night phase, and making any conclusions before then is unwise.