Mini 720 - SPQR Mafia {Game Over}

[Yosarian2]

That's right, Yos. People aren't reading my posts.

Well, you're still alive, and you've done absolutly nothing pro-town all game. So, yeah, people clearly aren't.

[Yosarian2]

You did a much better job scumhunting than me? I guess you're right, if I was honestly scumhunting I probably would have caught Xtoxm like you did.

This is a great point. Yos is completely wrong in being self-righteous here. You would think being painfully incorrect would be a humbling enough experience, but he's just shrugged it off without even considering how he set back the town.

So, if I'm scumhunting, I'm supposed to be right 100% of the time?

And of course I didn't just "shrug it off". I just explained to you that that's why I hadn't voted yet, because after being wrong day 1 I was confused and was being careful.

But I still refuse to admit that anything in the Xtoxm wagon was "bad scumhunting". If he had just stopped being so frustrating and answered my god damned questions, then perhaps I could have figured out his alignment. I refuse to take the blame for Xtoxm's stupidity here.

[Yosarian2]

anyways,

vote yosarian

i don't see his case on EA and it is mainly translating into OMGUS in my eyes.

HAVE YOU READ ANY OF HIS GODDAMNED POSTS?

Find me one thing EA has done this game that makes him look pro-town. One post of his that makes any sense at all. One post of his that isn't the most obviously scummy craplogic pretending to be scumhunting you've ever seen.

[charter]

dahill's Yos vote makes me more sure of dahill and less sure of Yos.

[OhGodMyLife]

Vote Count:

6 to lynch.

dahill1: 3 (charter, Tuberkulos, Coriolanus)
Yosarian2: 3 (Erratus Apathos, El Destructo, dahill1)
El Destructo: 2 (Incognito, Glork)
Erratus Apathos: 1 (Yosarian2)

Not Voting: 1 (Assmaster)

[El Destructo]

Not sure of timezone stuff, but I think the deadline is like a day or two away.

Incog needs to tell us what he thinks of the case on Yos in his very next post. He should probably also tell what he thinks of dahill, since the lynch is likely to be one of those two.

I'm disappointed that Glork hasn't already gotten around to explaining his Yos vote. He hasn't posted anywhere on site since the 16th, though.

Mod:

What timezone is the deadline set in? Also, I think Glork needs a prod.

des

[charter]

Add assmaster to my scumlist. I have no clue what he thinks about anyone, is just skirting by, and isn't voting with deadline in a few days.

I'm actually kind of inclined to think Yos might not be scum. Coupled with dahill's late vote with no reasoning and Yosarian's complete lack of trying to get someone with a legit chance of being lynched lynched, I'm waivering on him. I'll try and read EA before deadline and see if the case is legit or just bs.

[El Destructo]

Add assmaster to my scumlist. I have no clue what he thinks about anyone, is just skirting by, and isn't voting with deadline in a few days.

This is starting to worry me a bit too. I got a pro-town vibe from him through most of my read because his posting was seemed sensible and natural, but yeah, his lack of vote right now isn't so cool.

I'm actually kind of inclined to think Yos might not be scum. Coupled with dahill's late vote with no reasoning and Yosarian's complete lack of trying to get someone with a legit chance of being lynched lynched, I'm waivering on him.

dahill's vote was not great, but Yos is still scummy. Also, bussing can happen when one scummy player votes for another scummy player. I'm not ruling it out given Yos and dahill are in my top 4.

Not sure why you find him pushing for a lynch at deadline on a a player who probably won't get the votes as a town tell. If I was town in his position and the other possible lynch was a player I thought was town (he thinks dahill is town), I'd be doing more than saying, "no you're wrong! EA is scum! Read his posts again!" Yos looks more like he's just getting ready to roll over and die while dropping the least number of tells on his buddies, or, in the case that he isn't lynched today, giving himself the room to continue attacking EA tomorrow.

I'm also pretty freakin sure there's a heap of stalling going on. With TWO wagons at 3 votes and 6 to lynch, I've got no doubt that the near completely lack of wagon growth is due to scum stalling. I'm also inclined to take this as a sign that there's a good chance one of Yos or dahill is scum. I think scum would be more likely to be active at deadline if the leading wagon was a mislynch and obviously much more nervous when it's one of their buddies who's about to get lynched.

des

[Coriolanus]

i would not be surprised if EA was scum.

but yeah charter, i think yos got way scummier with dahill's vote. but dahill is definitely the priority here. why isn't he dead yet?

[El Destructo]

EBWOP
I meant to say:

I'm also inclined to take this as a sign that there's a good chance at least one of Yos or dahill is scum.

I thought I posted this, but i must have deleted it or something, but Yos' push on EA is similar to his on Xtox yesterday in that he's not showing us any evidence that he's seriously considering EA as part of a scum-team. His focus today has almost exclusively been on EA, like Elmo described his focus was on Xtox yesterday. I find this sort of play scummy, especially in experienced players. It lets them start from scratch mislynch after mislynch, and saves them the trouble of trying to fake picking up on connections to other players.

des

[El Destructo]

but yeah charter, i think yos got way scummier with dahill's vote.

scummier?

[Coriolanus]

but yeah charter, i think yos got way scummier with dahill's vote.

scummier?

yes.

1. it looks like a bus.
2. since i think yos has an increased chance of being scum if dahill is scum, any scummy action of dahill also indirectly increases the chance of yos being scum
3. it looks a hell of a lot like a bus.

[charter]

I didn't think it looked like a bus, just a shameless bandwagon vote on the largest wagon. dahill isn't going to earn any town points if he's on Yos's wagon and Yos flips scum, so I don't see the point in him doing it if they are scumbuddies. He's just going to help lynch a partner but it won't fool anyone.

You bring up a good point Des about how I was too quick to dismiss Yos's scumminess as well. Also, you think that at least one of dahill and Yos is scum. Since you're voting Yos I assume you think he's more likely. Would you be willing to move to dahill before deadline?

[El Destructo]

but dahill is definitely the priority here. why isn't he dead yet?

Some of the players I suspected most wrote him off as town way earlier than I was comfortable with. I feel like it's marginally more likely that that sort of thing is buddying up than defence. Yos looks like scum whatever dahill's alignment is.

des

[El Destructo]

Ass has done nothing in particular that seems inconsistent with what I know of his town play. I would like to see a vote somewhere, though.

Dahill's vote is logical, to me - rationally, you always vote 'the other guy'. CKD refused to vote Korts in Crackers because he thought Korts was town, and was lynched as a result. Korts was the SK, and CKD was irritated with himself post-game. You don't want to be that guy. This is not to say I find dahill townish (both me and Des feel there's a good change he's bullshitting on the meta issue, iirc), but Yos is far worse in my eyes - I've said why.

Yos' behaviour around EA is most assuredly not a towntell. Either what Des said, or he's delaying the wagon hop until as late as possible, so he can see where to best get on. How is that townish? I mean, what are the odds a player like Yos believes he's going to get five votes on EA before deadline? He's not going to, you can see that, I can see that, and he can see that. This is definitely not a deluded town Yos; keeping a vote on EA is anti-town right now, in the same way that refusing to vote intentionally robs the town of information.

charter, have you looked at my case against Yos from a day or two ago? It won't take long to read. Actually, that goes for everyone.

Elmo

[El Destructo]

Dahill's vote is logical, to me - rationally, you always vote 'the other guy'.

I would note, though, that this isn't what dahill said when he voted Yos. He said he thought Yos' case on EA amounted to OMGUS. I would probably have felt better about dahill if he'd just said, "I'm going to vote the other guy" mostly because it'd be more honest.

des

[charter]

charter, have you looked at my case against Yos from a day or two ago? It won't take long to read. Actually, that goes for everyone.

I just did. Forget about my waivering on Yos. I was wrong to think that dahill's actions should make him less scummy.

I don't see anyone even hinting at voting dahill and as much as it pains me to let him live another day, I will

unvote, vote Yos

[Yosarian2]

Yos looks more like he's just getting ready to roll over and die while dropping the least number of tells on his buddies, or, in the case that he isn't lynched today, giving himself the room to continue attacking EA tomorrow.

Or else it means that if the rest of the town would rather lynch me then take 5 minutes to read EA's posts for themselves and for their own opinion, and I haven't seen any sign yet that anyone has, then there's nothing else I can do for the town.

I'm also pretty freakin sure there's a heap of stalling going on. With TWO wagons at 3 votes and 6 to lynch, I've got no doubt that the near completely lack of wagon growth is due to scum stalling. I'm also inclined to take this as a sign that there's a good chance one of Yos or dahill is scum.

Uh...or else that we're both town, which seems the most likely scenerio at this point. Besides, you and EA are already voting for me, and that's 2 of the 3 scum right there.

[Yosarian2]

I thought I posted this, but i must have deleted it or something, but Yos' push on EA is similar to his on Xtox yesterday in that he's not showing us any evidence that he's seriously considering EA as part of a scum-team.

Uh, I never do that, because it's stupid. First you find one scum, you lynch him, and then you look for his scumbuddies. Vauge speculation built on an assumption on an early part of the game is just bad play. Now, endgame when there's a very limited number of suspects left, sure, try and figure out the whole scumgroup by connections and process of eliminitation; but on day 1 or day 2? Pfft.

[Yosarian2]

but yeah charter, i think yos got way scummier with dahill's vote.

scummier?

yes.

1. it looks like a bus.
2. since i think yos has an increased chance of being scum if dahill is scum, any scummy action of dahill also indirectly increases the chance of yos being scum
3. it looks a hell of a lot like a bus.

Um...except I'm town.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

READ THIS TOMMOROW.

All right. I think I'm about to get lynched. After I get lynched and come up town, everyone please come back and take a good look at this part of the post tommorow. This should probably be the first thing everyone comments on tommorow, and anyone who refuses to do so, you should take a good look at.


EA is obv scum, and his most likely scum partners are Glork and El Destructo. After I die, stop following the three of them like sheep, please. Charter is possible too, but a little less likely. Coriolanus and Incognito are both looking very pro-town to me, and Assmaster is also probably town, though not as strongly as those two.

[Incognito]

Quick post. El Destructo, what do you think of Pathetric's 136?

I'm not sure if there something specific you're asking about. Is there?

des

I was getting at the fact that the final portion of your

case

against Yosarian2 seemed to be in reference to you finding him suspicious because he found me pro-town enough to unvote me at the time, but the Patrick-half of Pathetric noted something similar to Yosarian2 about me even earlier than Yos2 did, and I wanted to get your feelings about whether or not you would have found Pathetric suspicious for similar reasons to Yosarian2 if he (they) were still alive.

About Yosarian2, I pretty much agreed with at least the beginning to middle portion of your case in 575; I, too, found him suspicious early on because despite the fact that he mentioned that he was scum-hunting, I never really felt like he was completely pushing the issue with a number of players early on. A few of his early posts gave me somewhat of a spectator-y vibe that usually makes me feel uncomfortable about a person, which was why I questioned him about some of his stances early on (notably his stance on Coriolanus). On Day 2, I do agree that again Yosarian2 has seemed to take somewhat of a backseat role with regards to discussion and only seemed to come alive when Erratus Apathos began voting for him.

The thing that's really bothering me about my read of Yosarian2 though is I feel like his push of the Xtoxm-wagon really gave me a strong pro-town vibe -- I wouldn't expect scum to push as fervently as Yosarian2 did on Xtoxm. Instead, I would expect scum to waffle on a player like him or show some off-wagon support for his lynch much the same way Rally Vincent, El Destructo's predecessor, seemed to during Day 1. I'm actually somewhat worried that my posts went largely unnoticed.

charter, Assmaster, Coriolanus, dahill1, EA:

What did you think of my posts in relation to Rally Vincent/El Destructo? Why is El Destructo not vote-worthy?

I also feel like my thoughts about Erratus Apathos pretty much match Yosarian2's as well like I mentioned previously in my 492 -- I find that when I think similarly to another person about another player or about certain game situations, it's more likely that the person I'm thinking similarly to has a higher chance of being pro-town.

In short, I'd vote Yosarian2 in order to prevent a No Lynch, but I still think El Destructo stands a very strong chance of being scum, and they're still my preferred lynch. I also still don't see the case on dahill1 and still feel like his play here (at least early on) matches fairly well with the play I read through in his past town games.

[Incognito]

Also,

mod:

at what time exactly is the deadline?

[Yosarian2]

(points up at Incog's post) You see? Obv town, like I said.

Anyway, let's see...oh, we still have 2 days left until deadline? Heh...I figured it was less then that, with the way everyone was flipping out just because I hadn't joined the crappy 3 vote wagon on Dahill.

However, while he's not as obv scum as EA, I'll compromise this far, in the hopes of perhaps actually getting a scum lynched today.

Unvote:EA

Vote:El Destructo

EA's still a better lynch, but I'll settle for an El Desructo wagon if I have to, which now also has 3 votes.

[Glork]

Not sure of timezone stuff, but I think the deadline is like a day or two away.

Incog needs to tell us what he thinks of the case on Yos in his very next post. He should probably also tell what he thinks of dahill, since the lynch is likely to be one of those two.

I'm disappointed that Glork hasn't already gotten around to explaining his Yos vote. He hasn't posted anywhere on site since the 16th, though.

Mod:

What timezone is the deadline set in? Also, I think Glork needs a prod.

des

Yeah, I went unexpectedly absent this weekend. Looks like I have some reading and writing to do.

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: Yos2

as a placeholder, cobbling together what I've read on Yos in the next half-hour or so...