Mini 729 - WaTR Mafia - Game Over!

[Korts]

Rhinox has this under control, it seems. One thing to add:

Which one is it? Is there scum on LT's wagon? Or am I scum now, because I was exploring the possibility of a link between LT and Occam? If you missed a MINOR little detail, I do not have my vote on Occam. Nor did my vote ever get placed on Occam at any point.

This only makes the fishing point more certain, you see; by not having your vote on him, you practically prove the point that you suspect they might be connected town.

---

Mod-Edit Votecount 1-6

freeko - 5 (Korts, Rhinox, MonkeyMan, Sipylus, Occam)
Lunar Tick - 2 (Rogue Shenanigans, Kiro)
BSG - 1 (Prom King)
Rogue Shenanigans - 1 (freeko)
MonkeyMan - 1 (BSG)
Not Voting - Lunar_Tick, Raider

With 12 left, 7 to lynch.

[freeko]

So by your logic, If I were to have moved my vote over to him first( or at any time?), I would have been perfectly justified in exploring the defense of LT by someone who is not LT?

The only reason I can see why someone is defending someone else this early in the game is because they are linked. Masons? Maybe. Lovers? More than likely this is what I think (and why I did not move my vote). Scum? You cannot tell me that it is not worth exploring this possibility.

Though I will say this, my vote is where I believe it is most likely to stay. I have not been convinced by Rouge that his choice of path was not either pre-meditated or some manner of an act of sabotage that will come into play later in the game. I cannot help but think that he has knowledge of the path and knows what will come from going certain ways good or bad.

[Korts]

The only reason I can see why someone is defending someone else this early in the game is because they are linked. Masons? Maybe. Lovers? More than likely this is what I think (and why I did not move my vote). Scum? You cannot tell me that it is not worth exploring this possibility.

Here's the thing: you put words into Occam's mouth. You asked him directly whether they were lovers. If you were suspecting him of being scum defending either town or scumpartner, you would ask him why he did it, not give him possible explanations; this is, of course, in addition to the fact that you're giving

two

town PRs if Occam is indeed a lover and you force him to reveal himself. ERGO rolefishing you were.

Also, nice baseless accusations at RS.

[freeko]

No more or less baseless than his choice of path.

[Sipylus]

This is hillarious no? Just for reference I'm going to quote the original vote again:

vote : rogue shenanigans

for choosing a path without asking anyone else. Maybe it is you who hangs from the lynching tree?

Even with freeko's vote still being in place 100+ posts later, I read this four times before the posibilty that it wasn't a joke vote entered my mind. So I asked why freeko hadn't moved his vote to the people who was suspicous of - the anyone I refer to below is Occam.

freeko

- You don't seem to have found anyone better to vote for, and your vote on RS seems jokish? Why didn't you vote for Occam? Or is your vote on RS serious?

I have not been convinced by Rouge that his choice of path was not either pre-meditated or some manner of an act of sabotage that will come into play later in the game. I cannot help but think that he has knowledge of the path and knows what will come from going certain ways good or bad.

Also, nice baseless accusations at RS.

No more or less baseless than his choice of path.

This says to me that if I believe RS's vote was random, I should believe that your vote is scummy dirt throwing. As this *is* what I believe, its a good thing I'm already voting for you.

I'm off for the weekend in a few hours, I'll try to at least have a look in everyday but I can't be certain I'll be able to post before Monday my time.

[Occam]

This says to me that if I believe RS's vote was random, I should believe that your vote is scummy dirt throwing. As this *is* what I believe, its a good thing I'm already voting for you.

QFT

[Prom King]

Freeko is innocent.

Take it from me... WINK WINK. I KNOW this for sure WINK WINK.

Unvote BSG, Vote Occam

I just see a lot of talking over talking over talking in this first day.

[freeko]

ok, I made my random vote on RS. Then I actually explored the possibilities. Shockingly I found an actual reason to leave my vote there, If you bother to read well.. anything, you would see this.

Should I have unvoted, and then dropped my vote on the same person? Seems like a waste of time to me.

[raider8169]

Freeko is innocent.

Take it from me... WINK WINK. I KNOW this for sure WINK WINK.

Unvote BSG, Vote Occam

I just see a lot of talking over talking over talking in this first day.

Yeah the cat is out of the bag how would you "know" this?

[Korts]

Good job on the subtlety there

freeko, your reason for keeping your vote on RS is still nothing more than BS. Is it really just that he based his choice on apparently nothing? Because that doesn't prove anti-town intentions.

[Occam]

Ok, I don't buy PK's "claim" or whatever that was supposed to be. He is probably freek's scum partner if freek flips scum. Also, wtf is over talking?

And freek, how about GIVING US that reason instead of just saying "if you read you'll see it".???

[Korts]

Hmm.

FoS Prom King

for that circular argument made in post 50.

unvote korts
vote BSG

Freeko is innocent.

Take it from me... WINK WINK. I KNOW this for sure WINK WINK.

Unvote BSG, Vote Occam

I just see a lot of talking over talking over talking in this first day.

I seem to remember his motives for that vote questioned; yet he never answers anything directed at him, and fails to give reasoning for both of these votes. I get the sense of lurking, opportunistic scum; and with his attempt at stalling the freeko wagon, he's definitely scummy. I get the feeling we got two scum here.

[Occam]

Any real power role would have been at least slightly more subtle than that - I don't see much reason to buy it.

[freeko]

Or we are 2 masons? Maybe now you understand why I was exploring another linked pair possibility. Because I have a link with another player in this game.

At least your little wagon got you some information.

[Korts]

unvote

Guess I'll have to go reread.

[raider8169]

Or we are 2 masons? Maybe now you understand why I was exploring another linked pair possibility. Because I have a link with another player in this game.

At least your little wagon got you some information.

This is not the information that should come out during the first day though. Not only were you forced to claim but you gave your mason partner away too. Of course your mason partner needs to confirm it.

[Occam]

Also, being "connected" as masons doesn't mean the two aren't "connected" as scum - but that's a gambit that I can't see working in the long run - it's important to keep in mind, though, because allowing them to cruise to endgame on a mason claim is bad.

Based on this information I got in my role pm, it's somewhat hard to believe that there are masons in this setup - but I won't rule out the possibility entirely. It just doesn't really make sense.

I still want Prom King to define "overtalking" - if I were to call anything "overtalking" it would be claiming as it happened on day one.

[Korts]

Either way, Occam, after this claim, it is bad play to lynch either of them today. That is, of course, if Prom King confirms this, which I assume he will, judging from his earlier reaction to the freeko wagon.

[Rhinox]

..... :annoyed:

unvote

, pending confirmation from PK

I shouldn't have to ask you to spell it out, but just to be sure... freeko, does your role state that you know PK is town? Same for PK... do you know for sure freeko is town? Without that certainty, the mason claim doesn't mean much.

[side rant]
Why is it that whenever I play in games with masons, the masons play the scummiest and are forced to reveal themselves D1... 2 games with masons, same result... 'course, last time I was SK, so I didn't mind.
[/side rant]

[Occam]

unvote

I will

vote: Kiro

.

[freeko]

Raider, my mason partner gave ME away actually. We are actually what looks to be 3rd party masons. Our victory condition (at least mine) is simply to get to the town alive on day 6. I also have the town win condition of winning when all scum are found. It is unknown to me what PK's alignment is.

Personally, I dont see how my role is a "power" role. The only thing I have is the ability to talk with someone else during the night phase.

[Rhinox]

Raider, my mason partner gave ME away actually. We are actually what looks to be 3rd party masons. Our victory condition (at least mine) is simply to get to the town alive on day 6. I also have the town win condition of winning when all scum are found. It is unknown to me what PK's alignment is.

Personally, I dont see how my role is a "power" role. The only thing I have is the ability to talk with someone else during the night phase.

IMO, being a mason is a power role because someone can confirm your innocents if you are told your mason partners allignment.

That being said, I'm a tad confused about the inconsistancies between what you just said was in your role, and when PK said he knew you were town.

As far as I always knew, masons were either confirmed (you know each other's allignment) or unconfirmed (you don't know each others allignment). PK claimed he knows you're town, but you claim you don't know PK's allignment. Can anyone here more experienced with masons tell me if that sort of thing (1 mason being confirmed, the other being unconfirmed) has happened before, and if it seems reasonable.

Regarding PK, if he is sure you're town, and you're unsure he is town, then this claim gives us valuable (and from now on, confusing) information about PK... either he is town and he believed you knew he was town, and he outed you to save you and confirm 2 townies, -or- he's scum gambiting that it would make him seem confirmed as town by preventing his mason partner townie from being lynched.

[freeko]

I cannot directly quote my role pm, so I cannot really answer it better. He knows my alignment (town), but I do not know his it seems. The last line of my pm says something to that effect. That I am not sure of his alignment.

Due to the forum crash right before the game started, it did not give me any time in the pregame to actually discuss anything wtih him. Though if I were to guess either way, I would lean towards town. Would it be unreasonable to ask for someone who has an investigative ability to look into him?

[Rhinox]

Would it be unreasonable to ask for someone who has an investigative ability to look into him?

I'm not sure if that would be the best thing. In my other game with masons, someone suggested a cop investigate one of them, and it was pretty much shot down by everyone as the worst idea ever, although I'm not exactly sure why. Mainly, I think, because the cops investigation choice shouldn't be determined by the town, since there are scum who could manipulate the cop.

[Occam]

Raider, my mason partner gave ME away actually. We are actually what looks to be 3rd party masons. Our victory condition (at least mine) is simply to get to the town alive on day 6. I also have the town win condition of winning when all scum are found. It is unknown to me what PK's alignment is.

HUH?

unvote - vote: freeko

That makes no sense for a variety of reasons - your win condition is to be alive on day 6? Mine doesn't say anything about ME being alive on day 6 - nor does it specifically mention "day 6".

Freek and PK are either third-party or scum.