Mini 727 - Mafia in Standardville - Game Over

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

Xdaamno (3) - Lynx the Antithesis, Danchaofan, Panzerjager
Artem (1) - BSG
Darox (1) - Artifex
Lowell (1) - Artem
BSG (1) - Alvinz95
Lynx the Antithesis (1) - Darox
Charter (1) - Xdaamno
Artifex (1) - Lowell

Not Voting (2) - Charter, Master Ruck

I will send out prods after classes today.

[Xdaamno]

Xdaamno, care to give a little more insight as to why you view charter as most scummy?

I never said I did so, though I still might do so (might=/=probably); that language irks me. I'm not saying it's a scum tell, but "who do you think is scum" and "who do you think is the most scummy" is the mafia version of a false dichotomy.

[BSG]

@MR
Have you read my post totally or not? As you could have seen, I mentioned a few of your posts. Perhaps it has something to do with those posts. And you might look at post 142. I find it strange that you didn't comment on Charter while he called you scum.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Incorrect wording on my part. I'll give you that. How about why do you think he's

scummy enough

to place your vote on him?

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP:

Xdaamno, care to give a little more insight as to why you view charter as most scummy?

I never said I did, though I still might do so (might=/=probably). That language irks me. I'm not saying it's a scum tell, but "who do you think is scum" and "who do you think is the most scummy" are the mafia versions of a false dichotomy.

Fixed the weird grammar.

[Xdaamno]

Incorrect wording on my part. I'll give you that. How about why do you think he's

scummy enough

to place your vote on him?

Hm, the wording still isn't perfect!

Like I said, the vote was part vibes (urgh) and part pressure. You imply a 'vote' is somehow a declaration of "I think this guy is scummy".

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I do imply such a declaration at this stage of the game. For me, pressure votes are utilized more effectively earlier in the game. And to point out it's use for pressure basically nullifies its use for said pressure. Basing votes purely off vibes is pretty impractical.

Also, didn't you say that while he was pressing you his questions came off scummy. Does that not make him somewhat scummy to you? You're practically taking away any Value from your vote at this point.

[Master Ruck]

@BSG
I missed your comments on me as you summed me up as MR. Call me Ruck and I'll notice that instantly. I've said my bad on answering for xda, so onto your other points of interest.

Post 166/168, I had no intention to make it look like that, nor do I really see it as that. I thought it might be possible that he was confused, but also possible that lynx may be scum. I wanted to see his defense to decide upon, so I should have worded it differently and said simply that instead of giving lynx a possible out.

As for charter calling me scum, what reason did I have to defend it? It's not like he voted for me (or FoS for that matter) and he's right to point out the contradiction. It was a dumb move, and here that doesn't qualify as a reasonable defense, so I ignored it and tried to focus on scum hunting again.

In short, I am a really dumb town.

[Xdaamno]

I do imply such a declaration at this stage of the game. For me, pressure votes are utilized more effectively earlier in the game. And to point out it's use for pressure basically nullifies its use for said pressure. Basing votes purely off vibes is pretty impractical.

I absolutely disagree; pressure votes are useful at any stage - and of course pressure votes are useless after being pointed out, I left it until a whole few pages had passed until I showed my hand. I agree that basing votes purely off vibes is

very

impractical.

Perhaps this is a cop-out on my part. The vote wasn't significant to me, so trying to justify it may be fruitless. Either way, I believe we're discussing methodology, not scum hunting.

Also, didn't you say that while he was pressing you his questions came off scummy. Does that not make him somewhat scummy to you? You're practically taking away any Value from your vote at this point.

You're saying... I thought he was scummy, therefore he was somewhat scummy to me? Yes. That may not apply now, I'd need to look over his - and my - posts. Also, the last sentence is incorrect, as I have clearly stated why I voted (pressure, ugly vibes, insignificance lowering the bar anyhow).

Also, ergh... I hate using capitals on a letter superfluously, it makes it sound like we're dealing with some kind of currency here.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

The Value capitalization was a typo really. In regards to that sentence, I feel your later explanation of the vote has taken away a large part of the usefullness of it in the first place(largely the pressure business which was taken away by admitting that fact.

[LlamaFluff]

Alvinz95 has been prodded for the second time in day one

Lowell is still on a noted V/LA so will not be prodded

[PJ.]

I'm still not digging Xd's explanation for the Artem thing, and so if I don't involve you directly in the questions you're not gonna weigh in? Assume every question I ask I want your opinion on unless I state otherwise.

[Xdaamno]

I'm still not digging Xd's explanation for the Artem thing, and so if I don't involve you directly in the questions you're not gonna weigh in? Assume every question I ask I want your opinion on unless I state otherwise.

No, I'm naturally less interested when I'm not involved, as I said. What about the 'Artem thing' do you not dig?

[Artifex]

Also, ergh... I hate using capitals on a letter superfluously, it makes it sound like we're dealing with some kind of currency here.

Urgh indeed. You know how you were asking about that elitist thing earlier? This is a classic example of that, BTW. I'm not even saying I disagree with you, but I dont think Id ever point it out, knowing that I too am subject to the occasional grammatical quirk.

Sorry, anyway, on topic. What I find funny about this whole thing is that Rucks idea of what the 'saved' wording meant was better for Xda then admitting he what he really meant. I now dont know what to think- its hard to think you didnt know you were attempting to lynch someone, especially since in your hammer-that-wasnt you called artem 'good to lynch'. But you were honest enough to clarify the wording in your 'saved' post, even though its somewhat detrimental to you. I guess what I'm saying is I could buy the idea you didnt know what you were doing.

As for this conversation you're having with Lynx, with respect I think you're picking apart his words. Look at it this way: going with the theory youre telling the truth, you almost accidentally lynched a player. On top of this, youve revealed you were attempting a pressure vote- so now I have no clue if youve ever found anyone suspicious in this game at all. That's what I think is meant by 'value' and 'contribution'. Its frustrating, because you say that you dont naturally get interested in something that doesnt involve you, but the attempts being made to involve you have gotten derailed for one reason or another. What does someone have to say to get you 'involved' anyway? Cant the fact that youre in the game motivate you to involve yourself?

[charter]

This argument against Lynx seems overly convoluted.

I don't know about that, but I'm certainly having a tough time following it.

Charter, you also mentioned a game with a PGO in it. Could you give a link to that game?

Mini 611, link in my wiki.

192-

Vote Xdaamo

The answers to my questions you gave here were a direct contradiction to the post where you voted me. None of those answers were obvious, as can been seen by the confusion of people. Plus, the attempted quickhammer, plus the lack of commenting on a lot of everything, plus only posting when he's being attacked, sounds like he's more interested in defending himself than catching scum.

[alvinz95]

Blah, too much. Sorry Llamafluff, gotta be replaced. Sorry guys.

Starting a search for a Alvinz replacement

[Artem]

I absolutely disagree; pressure votes are useful at any stage - and of course pressure votes are useless after being pointed out, I left it until a whole few pages had passed until I showed my hand. I agree that basing votes purely off vibes is very impractical.

So, what were you pressuring me to do? Roleclaim?

I love all these stoaways fleeing my bandwagon, now that I've claimed and asked everybody to state their reasons. Their reason for fleeing: "Artem has defended himself sufficiently". Really?

Take panzer, for example:

@Artem, You're not the most active or vocal and most of the game you actually seemed pretty lost. Also, I have stated reason, several times.

You never addressed them.

Artem has defended sufficiently

for now, but I still think Charter and him could be buddies.

My only post between these two was:

The last time you stated them was in post 81, which I addressed in 112.

You other reasons are:
-I'm not voting Charter (already addressed)
-Charter is my scumbuddy who's trying to pull attention away from me (which is nonsense as charter is just as much interested in me as you are)
-I'm voting Lowell for baseless reasons;

I don't think my reasons for voting are all that baseless. You don't find the little case of amnesia strange?

So, what was it in my post that turned panzer 180 around? Because in my mind the conversation went something like this:

Panzer: "Artem never addressed my reasons for voting him."
Artem: "Yes, I have."
Panzer: "Artem has defended himself sufficiently. I shall unvote."

I think it will be very educational later in the game to go back to my wagon and see how many of these free-riders were on it for the sole purpose of role-fishing. Now, that I've claimed, they seem to be moving on to somebody more interesting than a vanilla townie.

And if this is how we're going to play this game, why don't we just mass-claim now?

[Artem]

Oh, and props to BSG for being the only one sticking to her guns. Combined with the other scumhunting she's been doing, I'd chalk her up as town.

[LlamaFluff]

Tubby216 replaces Alvinz95 effective immediately

[Lowell]

Back. Trying to get caught up.

[tubby216]

well hello there some familar faces in this game, panzer, charter lowell, hiya to the rest of you nice to meet you all,

unvote

now here is what i got so far (please correct me if i am wrong)

artem -claimed townie, so far i see no reason not to believe it, I also like where he attacks panzer in the post above i believe panzer should have been call on that, however let me explain my position on pressure votes.

pressure votes should not be used to run some pone up to a claim then emidately backed off of, the should be use to see how someone will react to real stress, will they sit quietly and wait till l-1 then claim, or will they squirm and use wifom arguments or make omgus cases to start other wagons, all of these these thing i feel are valuable when hunting scum.

darox- claimed pgo, wich was his first real post of the game, if he is a PGO then he has played it correctly. I believe a PGO should claim immediately after confirming to avoid any pro town role getting nk’d accidentily,


lynx,- I really don’t like your posts at all nor do I like your reaction to Darox’s claim, I also don’t like your disagreement with xdaamo, pressure votes are good anytime of the game not solely at the beginning.

So I am going to conclude this with

vote lynx

Will continue reading and give analysis on the rest of you later

[Xdaamno]

I absolutely disagree; pressure votes are useful at any stage - and of course pressure votes are useless after being pointed out, I left it until a whole few pages had passed until I showed my hand. I agree that basing votes purely off vibes is very impractical.

So, what were you pressuring me to do? Roleclaim?

Well, I didn't have anything in mind. If we knew what was on Mars, we wouldn't need to send probes there.

Also, ergh... I hate using capitals on a letter superfluously, it makes it sound like we're dealing with some kind of currency here.

Urgh indeed. You know how you were asking about that elitist thing earlier? This is a classic example of that, BTW. I'm not even saying I disagree with you, but I dont think Id ever point it out, knowing that I too am subject to the occasional grammatical quirk.

*shrug*

I'm not doing anything intentionally, it's just something that bugs me.

[Artem]

Well, I didn't have anything in mind. If we knew what was on Mars, we wouldn't need to send probes there.

Would you like to share with us what your probe found on planet Artem? After all, you need to justify the future funding of the project "probe".

[Xdaamno]

Well, I didn't have anything in mind. If we knew what was on Mars, we wouldn't need to send probes there.

Would you like to share with us what your probe found on planet Artem? After all, you need to justify the future funding of the project "probe".

I lost interest. I'll go look back at the reactions sometime.

[PJ.]

@Artem, My biggest reason for voting was because you and charter seemed like buddies. You had previously defended yourself on a lot of my points when you addressed Danchao's post, so I looked at charter's actions and thought, I best just put these in storage and move on.