Mind Screw Mafia 3 (OVER)

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Interesting catch there Xyl, the next vote count should provide some answers.

[qwints]

The thing I did to activate my ultimate would still be anti-town if I failed to activate my ultimate.

So you're saying that your fake post restriction was a bad idea?

Yes. It also was not the only way of achieving my ultimate.

[ShadowGirl]

The thing I did to activate my ultimate would still be anti-town if I failed to activate my ultimate.

So you're saying that your fake post restriction was a bad idea?

Yes. It also was not the only way of achieving my ultimate.

Did you ever think it might be a bad idea before you did it, or is this purely on retrospect?

[StrangerCoug]

Answer this for me then: Suppose you and I are lovers and you do not know that I am scum. Your win condition reads, "Under normal circumstances, you win when all threats to the town have been eliminated from the game; however, if StrangerCoug is scum and he wins, so do you if the two of you are alive." Are you, therefore, not town because I'm not either, even though that's not something you would know?

Are you scum?

No; I was giving Xylthixlm a hypothetical situation so I could figure out what he was talking about. I am not a lover with Xylthixlm.

[hasdgfas]

(5)
First off,

unvote: Xyl

I did not want to vote for him.
Since I'm catching up, I'll do my favorite way of making note of posts I find interesting.

Post 1275 - Kinetic: FoSing people because they want to know something that already happened? And using DGB as an example when WE KNOW HOW SHE DIED? Horrible post. Oh, and voting Xyl because he wants clarification? I thought the same thing he did about you suggesting mass claim. I really hate this whole post.
Post 1281 - tajo: Commenting about possible cult recruits? Why is this a good thing?
Post 1283 - SG: Have you done anything useful this whole game?
Post 1285 - tajo: How is this a useful question?
Post 1291 - Pesco: Are you reading the thread? Tar is dead. He killed last time beacuse he sent in the ability before dying.
Post 1293 - MM: Doing the same thing as me, eh? Interesting...
Post 1295 - Kinetic: This is a terrible idea -_-. Tar is dead. This is stupid. Really stupid.
Post 1297 - SG: I repeat my previous question.
Post 1298/1299 - SG: Sure, it's falseclaim, whatever. What? The phrase is only for yesterday? no. He names it as he uses the ability and it can be the same thing each day.
Post 1305 - Xyl: Thank you.
Post 1313 - tajo: Because it doesn't happen until the end of the day?
Post 1314 - malth: .........
Post 1319 - SG: SG, "YOU MAY NAME". He can CHOOSE the phrase and choose the SAME ONE.
Post 1321 - variable: There are NO positives either. Tar is dead. Nothing will happen. This is yet another thing that seems cult-ish to me.
Post 1327 - SG: HE. CAN. CHOOSE. IT. -_-
Post 1330 - Kinetic: No, it's not that refusing to say it means there's something to lose, but there's nothing to gain. If you can convince me that there is a positive, I'll go along, but I don't see it. TAR IS DEAD. There are no positives at all.
Post 1337 - qwints: That's it?
Post 1338 - hp: ding, ding, ding. There's our drawback.
Post 1339 - Sera: Again, that's it?
Post 1360/61 - variable/Xyl: Yes, he should die. He seems cult to me.
Post 1363 - Kinetic: No he didn't.
Post 1364 - Xyl: agreed.
Post 1373 - Kinetic: If FL is controlling two people, how does it make sense that they're of different alignment? You don't know that MM is scum -_-
Post 1376 - Kinetic: One-line posts =/= not contributing. One-liners can be the most useful posts in the game.
Post 1380 - qwints: This is almost voteworthy. You don't have to fulfill your ultimate. And saying that Xyl's active lurking without even looking wow
Post 1383 - qwints: What?
Post 1386 - qwints: This hurts my head. Activating your ultimate is anti-town if you don't activate your ultimate? What?
Post 1387 - SC: This is a horrible reason to vote.
Post 1392 - hp: not obvscum due to PR, but his explanations for it make him seem as such.


Kinetic, qwints, and probably SG should all die.

unvote: tajo(pesco)
vote: MM(Kinetic)

[ShadowGirl]

@About the phrase: I've already said/ammended that it is possible for the same phrase to be chosen, but that we shouldn't be discouraged if the 'plan' doesn't work.

SG: Have you done anything useful this whole game?

I don't understand what you want me to say? I've been here and posting, which you can't say for a few other people.

[Kinetic]

Post 1275 - Kinetic: FoSing people because they want to know something that already happened? And using DGB as an example when WE KNOW HOW SHE DIED? Horrible post. Oh, and voting Xyl because he wants clarification? I thought the same thing he did about you suggesting mass claim. I really hate this whole post.

Congrats on your framing. Very nicely done. I really like how you decided your suspects first, and then built the cases around them to confirm your bias, instead of, you know, reading the game to find the suspects and scum hunting. But that's OK. I'll break down you're little game.

First off: Congrats on knowing exactly how DGB died and being so sure of yourself. When I entered this game the first thing I did was read MS1 and MS2, then I left a lot of my own preconceived notions at the door. What does that mean for this post? That means never taking anything at face value. At that time I wasn't sure exactly how DGB died. I didn't think that Tar could kill her AFTER he died. Because remember, Tar didn't make it into the night phase, he was day-vigged before that could happen. And if he could kill after he died, what was stopping him from continuing to do so?

Knowing what you and I know now, and what has been reasoned out, if I had made that post NOW, yes it would be odd, but at the time I made it by my own past mind set, those things were still possible and thus the foundation of my reasoning was faulty, thus despite having good reasoning from it, the final conclusion was false.

And I didn't vote Xyl in that post because he wanted clarification. You misunderstand. I voted him because I felt like he was trying to place a tag on me, particularly that mass claim one. The reason I'm so abhorred by said tag is because of my own actions in B5 with mass claims. I definitely didn't want that tag on me, and I voted because I felt he was trying to do that to me.

Post 1295 - Kinetic: This is a terrible idea -_-. Tar is dead. This is stupid. Really stupid.

I really hate being called stupid. I also really hate when someone calls something I say stupid or me stupid because of it.

Yes, I was ignorant about certain things, and still there are some things I don't quite know about the game. But because you might know them and I don't doesn't mean you get to act superior.

I didn't know exactly how Night Actions resolved, principally because I don't have any Night Actions for which to resolve, nor have I ever played in a Tar game where I have had any Night actions. Thus, I couldn't understand how Tar, who was already dead at the time, could kill DGB, even though I suspected he killed her but wasn't sure.

Thus, in that light, I thought up the possibility that perhaps Tar didn't need to be alive to kill. On that note, that is where my thoughts came from, and in that case the plan would be ingenious, not stupid as you say.

Post 1330 - Kinetic: No, it's not that refusing to say it means there's something to lose, but there's nothing to gain. If you can convince me that there is a positive, I'll go along, but I don't see it. TAR IS DEAD. There are no positives at all.

See, this is that 20/20 Hindsight thing, again. You have it now. I didn't then when I made the post. Neither did M-M. At the time, I still believed it was certainly possible that Tar could kill from the grave, so to speak. Anyone who also believe it had reason not to state the words. Its a MAJOR slip, and one that is completely mental. Its one that I WON'T let go of, and its very obvious that if the mafia can daytalk (which based on what I know of Tar games with the converted twilight setup, they can) that perhaps one of his buddies told him to change his answer quick.

The fact that so suddenly after this I'm being targeted so ruthlessly is making me wonder if I'm VERY on target and that one or another of the people pushing for me is scum as well trying to discredit me.

Post 1363 - Kinetic: No he didn't.

I disagree. But your defense of him is noted.

Post 1373 - Kinetic: If FL is controlling two people, how does it make sense that they're of different alignment? You don't know that MM is scum -_-

Like I said, I'm still wrestling with this myself, but something just ISN'T right here, and I cannot put my finger on it...

Maybe she was fully scum all along with a reverse-miller on first death half?

Something isn't right, and I refuse to clear TehVarible/FL JUST because they happen to be the same person. This role is FAR from normal, and borderline illegal. There has to be a catch somewhere, and the fact that so many people are giving her a free pass is very annoying. In any other game, maybe, but giving anyone a free pass in a Mind Screw can be deadly. I simply refuse to make that mistake.

Post 1376 - Kinetic: One-line posts =/= not contributing. One-liners can be the most useful posts in the game.

Nor did I say that one-line posts = not contributing, but I see what you did there. No, what I said was I couldn't REMEMBER his contributions. I'm sorry, I'm flawed. My memory is not perfect. You try remembering 20 some odd unique people and personalities and view points perfectly. He's slipped through the cracks of my mind and I cannot remember exactly what he's done.

The fact that there is not a lot to remember doesn't help the situation, and that is all that I'm saying. If I was accusing him of lurking or not contributing, I would have accused him of that. I did not.

[Xylthixlm]

That's a lot of words to say "OMGUS".

Kinetic - Tarhalindur claimed the kill of DGB in the very post where he announced her dead!

And

said why the kill happened despite him being dead. Do you just completely ignore italicized flavor text or what?

Because remember, Tar didn't make it into the night phase, he was day-vigged before that could happen.

There is no night. If you're as sharp as you claim, I have trouble believing you wouldn't know that.

I didn't know exactly how Night Actions resolved, principally because I don't have any Night Actions for which to resolve, nor have I ever played in a Tar game where I have had any Night actions.

There are no Night Actions. There are only day actions. I find it hard to believe that you have

no

actions, not even an ultimate.


Kinetic is scum and needs to die. I'll be putting my vote back on as soon as there's a vote count.

[Tarhalindur]

Point of Order!

"I will not be spoken to so by one so devoid of the Khala's light! You and your foul brethren will DIE here with these traitors!"
"Are you truly so blinded by your vaunted religion that you cannot see the fall ahead of you? Your Conclave believes that it is winning this war, when in truth all you have done is to help the Overmind to win."

No word from my possible Cephrir replacement, replacement should still be forthcoming. - Tar

The Forty-Third Vote Count (aka The "Illusion or Reality?" Vote Count)

2) Kinetic/Context (5) - populartajo
5) malthusis (1)
8) hasdgfas (rep. DragonsofSummer) (0)
10) TehVariable (0)
11) hp [leaves] (rep. The Internet who rep. pacman281292) (0) - skitzer
12) qwints (1)
16) ShadowGirl (0)
18) Seraphim (rep. XSilentSinX) (0)
20) populartajo (0) - Seraphim, Kinetic
21) Pesco47 (2)
22) Stef (0)
23) Cephrir (1) - qwints, StrangerCoug
24) Xylthixlm (2) - hasdgfas
25) StrangerCoug (0)
26) skitzer (rep. Electra) (0)
28) Machiavellian-Mafia (1) - hp [leaves], TehVariable, Machiavellian-Mafia, hasdgfas

Not Voting (7): malthusis, ShadowGirl, Pesco47, Stef, Cephrir, Xylthixlm

Votes required to lynch:

????

FoS Count:

2) Kinetic/Context (2) - TehVariable, skitzer
5) malthusis (0)
8) hasdgfas (rep. DragonsofSummer) (0)
10) TehVariable (0) -
11) hp [leaves] (rep. The Internet who rep. pacman281292) (0) -
12) qwints (1) - hp [leaves]
16) ShadowGirl (0)
18) Seraphim (rep. XSilentSinX) (0)
20) populartajo (0)
21) Pesco47 (1) - Seraphim
22) Stef (0)
23) Cephrir (0)
24) Xylthixlm (0)
25) StrangerCoug (0)
26) skitzer (rep. Electra) (0)
28) Machiavellian-Mafia (1) - Kinetic

Not FoS'ing (12): malthusis, hasdgfas, hp [leaves], qwints, ShadowGirl, populartajo, Pesco47, Stef, Cephrir, Xylthixlm, StrangerCoug, Machiavellian-Mafia

Current Deadline:

????

End Point of Order!

[Xylthixlm]

The Forty-Second Vote Count (aka The "Cattle Ranching" Vote Count)

2) Kinetic/Context (5) - populartajo
28) Machiavellian-Mafia (1) - hp [leaves], TehVariable, Xylthixlm, Machiavellian-Mafia

Not Voting (7): malthusis, ShadowGirl, Pesco47, Stef, Cephrir

The Forty-Third Vote Count (aka The "Illusion or Reality?" Vote Count)

2) Kinetic/Context (5) - populartajo
28) Machiavellian-Mafia (1) - hp [leaves], TehVariable, Machiavellian-Mafia, hasdgfas

Not Voting (7): malthusis, ShadowGirl, Pesco47, Stef, Cephrir, Xylthixlm

Insufficient data.

vote Machiavellian-Mafia

(Kinetic/Context)

[Tarhalindur]

Point of Order!

"Combat manuevers open."

Iamausername replaces Cephrir, effective immediately. - Tar

The Forty-Fourth Vote Count (aka The "No Unvote For You!" Vote Count)

2) Kinetic/Context (5) - populartajo
5) malthusis (1)
8) hasdgfas (rep. DragonsofSummer) (0)
10) TehVariable (0)
11) hp [leaves] (rep. The Internet who rep. pacman281292) (0) - skitzer
12) qwints (1)
16) ShadowGirl (0)
18) Seraphim (rep. XSilentSinX) (0)
20) populartajo (0) - Seraphim, Kinetic
21) Pesco47 (2)
22) Stef (0)
23) Cephrir (1) - qwints, StrangerCoug
24) Xylthixlm (2) - hasdgfas
25) StrangerCoug (0)
26) skitzer (rep. Electra) (0)
28) Machiavellian-Mafia (1) - hp [leaves], TehVariable, Machiavellian-Mafia, hasdgfas, Xylthixlm

Not Voting (7): malthusis, ShadowGirl, Pesco47, Stef, Cephrir

Votes required to lynch:

????

FoS Count:

2) Kinetic/Context (2) - TehVariable, skitzer
5) malthusis (0)
8) hasdgfas (rep. DragonsofSummer) (0)
10) TehVariable (0) -
11) hp [leaves] (rep. The Internet who rep. pacman281292) (0) -
12) qwints (1) - hp [leaves]
16) ShadowGirl (0)
18) Seraphim (rep. XSilentSinX) (0)
20) populartajo (0)
21) Pesco47 (1) - Seraphim
22) Stef (0)
23) Cephrir (0)
24) Xylthixlm (0)
25) StrangerCoug (0)
26) skitzer (rep. Electra) (0)
28) Machiavellian-Mafia (1) - Kinetic

Not FoS'ing (12): malthusis, hasdgfas, hp [leaves], qwints, ShadowGirl, populartajo, Pesco47, Stef, Cephrir, Xylthixlm, StrangerCoug, Machiavellian-Mafia

Current Deadline:

????

End Point of Order!

[iamausername]

Reading up now, rah rah rah. Let me know if there's anything I need to respond to urgently.

[Xylthixlm]

The Forty-Third Vote Count (aka The "Illusion or Reality?" Vote Count)

2) Kinetic/Context (5) - populartajo
28) Machiavellian-Mafia (1) - hp [leaves], TehVariable, Machiavellian-Mafia, hasdgfas

Not Voting (7): malthusis, ShadowGirl, Pesco47, Stef, Cephrir, Xylthixlm

The Forty-Fourth Vote Count (aka The "No Unvote For You!" Vote Count)

2) Kinetic/Context (5) - populartajo
28) Machiavellian-Mafia (1) - hp [leaves], TehVariable, Machiavellian-Mafia, hasdgfas, Xylthixlm

Not Voting (7): malthusis, ShadowGirl, Pesco47, Stef, Cephrir

It appears I can't unvote (or can't vote).

I wonder where my vote is.

[ShadowGirl]

o_O

Just testing this out if my vote works...

Vote: Stef

[populartajo]

Sorry Ive been neglecting this game due to some being more interesting than this one. (Sorry, Tar)
In other new, hi iamusername. Nice to see you again.
Whats the case on Kinetic? If we decide to lynch him and if he is scum, it would be useful if you all unvote so I can be in the first three in the wagon.
Theres somethin really weird going on with the vote count. I think it has to be with the unvotes. (modhint)

[Kinetic]

That's a lot of words to say "OMGUS".

Kinetic - Tarhalindur claimed the kill of DGB in the very post where he announced her dead!

And

said why the kill happened despite him being dead. Do you just completely ignore italicized flavor text or what?

Honestly, I didn't notice that. I don't normally skip important text like that, but I usually do skip flavor. I think of it, mostly as static. Useless information and I try not to ever build anything on it because I feel like the mod tries to go out of their way to not reveal anything through flavor.

The fact that this is MS just bit me again though, and if I had been paying more attention I would have noticed that to begin with.

Because remember, Tar didn't make it into the night phase, he was day-vigged before that could happen.

There is no night. If you're as sharp as you claim, I have trouble believing you wouldn't know that.

Do not go there. Don't attack me when you're trying to make a point. I won't have it and its the one thing in the game that will stop me from being detached and having fun; and start getting me seriously pissed off.

The fact is you're arguing semantics and then calling me stupid for not using the exact word/phrase the mod uses.

All actions resolve (for the most part) at the same time, during the "Twilight" Phase. I call this the Night phase because it is like the Night phase in most other Mafia games, where actions all resolve. They accomplish similar items, and therefore, to make things simpler to me I simply think of this game as having a Night phase that is just long enough for actions to all resolve, then we hit the next day.

I didn't know exactly how Night Actions resolved, principally because I don't have any Night Actions for which to resolve, nor have I ever played in a Tar game where I have had any Night actions.

There are no Night Actions. There are only day actions. I find it hard to believe that you have

no

actions, not even an ultimate.

This is you doing it again after I've warned you several times.

1) I've already claimed my ultimate has activated, so therefore how can I claim not to have an ultimate?

2) I have no 'activated' abilities. Therefore I have no actions. I do nothing during the twilight or day phase that requires me to talk to the mod in any way.

3) I do have other abilities, but they work regardless of anything I do and I cannot turn them off.

So yes, I have absolutely no Night Actions or Day Actions, or anything of the sort.

Clear enough for you?

Kinetic is scum and needs to die. I'll be putting my vote back on as soon as there's a vote count.

I'm seriously starting to think you're purposely twisting my words to suit your goals, and its starting to look very very scummy.

This isn't OMGUS, I've pointed out several times where you've twisted my words, in fact, I voted you first for it, then you voted me back. If anything is OMGUS, its the attack you're leading against me right now.

Now I'm telling you this now, look back and re-read our whole debate. If you don't see what I see, o well, but don't disregard what I'm saying. If you are town (and the likelihood is dwindling in my opinion) this is going to end up biting you on the ass real soon if you get your wish.

[Kinetic]

Hmm, perhaps someone wants me lynched bad...

As it stands, if no one can unvote, and if SG just wasted her vote (-.-) then that means there are 6 floating votes and if all votes are put in one place they could over come the 5 I have, but more realistically only Xyl and Pesco (who have two votes a piece) could overcome my 6 votes with a consensus.

Odd and interesting...

I'm going to ask if you haven't voted yet not to vote yet so we can at least talk about it. The next person who votes me could possibility be hammering me.

But what happens if everyone votes and we don't actually reach lynch (which seems by the case, I think lynch is at 11 votes, since 20 votes are around)

[Xylthixlm]

There is no night. If you're as sharp as you claim, I have trouble believing you wouldn't know that.

The fact is you're arguing semantics and then calling me stupid for not using the exact word/phrase the mod uses.

First, I'm not calling you stupid, I'm calling you smart and therefore scum.

Second, it's not a matter of "exact word/phrase". Night actions and day actions which resolve at twilight are

mechanically different

. By calling them night actions you are at best confusing yourself, and at worst trying to confuse the town.

[Kinetic]

There is no night. If you're as sharp as you claim, I have trouble believing you wouldn't know that.

The fact is you're arguing semantics and then calling me stupid for not using the exact word/phrase the mod uses.

First, I'm not calling you stupid, I'm calling you smart and therefore scum.

Second, it's not a matter of "exact word/phrase". Night actions and day actions which resolve at twilight are

mechanically different

. By calling them night actions you are at best confusing yourself, and at worst trying to confuse the town.

Despite there mechanical differences, the fact is I have never had one to deal with, nor does this role have one. I don't have first hand knowledge of how those differences will work, and can only understand them in the theoretical.

The point stands, however, that from my point-of-view, there is little difference between them. There are some things that one can do and the other can't, and vice versa, but in the end most of the time they act pretty much the same from my end.

[Xylthixlm]

Except for the minor detail that someone who is daykilled or lynched still has their action go through, which, you know, turned out to be kind of relevant to the game. I know you're smart enough to see that, so your denial has to be the result of either cognitive dissonance or flat-out lying.

[Kinetic]

Except for the minor detail that someone who is daykilled or lynched still has their action go through, which, you know, turned out to be kind of relevant to the game. I know you're smart enough to see that, so your denial has to be the result of either cognitive dissonance or flat-out lying.

-.-

I know there is a difference NOW.

I didn't see any difference THEN.

Even now, the difference is minuscule, and if something so odd didn't happen it wouldn't have been an issue.

The fact is, before it was pointed out HOW Tar could still kill after he died, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT COULD HAPPEN. I seriously thought that day killing in this would be just like day killing in other games.

I was previously (and for a large part of today) under the impression that the twilight was effectively your deadline to submit night actions and that you still had to be alive to cause your action to happen. It would like have been you voting someone, I day kill you, and your vote stays on that person for all eternity. It was outside the scope of my understanding and since I missed the part where Tar claimed credit, I had no way of realizing that he did.

I don't understand how, at the time, you can accuse me of knowing that based on what you know now.

[Xylthixlm]

Kinetic, what do you think about qwints?

[Xylthixlm]

Mod: Please prod malthusis, TehVariable, The Internet, Seraphim, Stef, Cephrir, and Electra

[Kinetic]

Kinetic, what do you think about qwints?

Interesting. He has lurked under the radar quite significantly.

The fake post restriction is interesting in the fact that its, well, useless. It allowed him to skate by the first day, but I can't imagine it working much more than that. By writing it off as part of his ultimate condition, I find it odd...

I think... I might know what his ultimate condition might be... It might be very similar to my own. I kind of want him to claim it, particularly because:

From reading him in isolation he has been very opportunistic, not making very many stands, and brushing off many questions directed at him.

I also would like to hear if his Ultimate condition correctly matches the play we observed from the first day...

Overall, I'm not liking him a lot, but there seems to be very little to tie to him other than borderline lurking play.

If he'd be willing now, I'd like to hear more about his ultimate conditions, and maybe some elaboration from him on other players in the game, particularly I'd like to know how he feels about myself, Xyl, M-M, and pop.

[TehVariable]

Sorry about the L/A. There really hasn't been much to discuss that made it worth switching accounts to be honest. Basically, Kinetic needs to die. It's obvious he's stretching and fishing all over the place. qwints is probably a good second since I see Kinetic attempting to find ways to clear him.

Oh yeah, did Xyl actually UNVOTE before revoting and deciding we have sticky votes?

Let us demonstrate CORRECTLY

Unvote