Mini 727 - Mafia in Standardville - Game Over

[BSG]

It's good to see Charter back. Then I can respond to some things.
Charter, this is the reason why it's WIFOM what you did:

why would I place the vote if I knew it was scummy? What scum would be so boisterous?

However, like I already told there were three reasons that I saw why you would have put me at L-2:
-To see what my reaction would be, as I'm suddenly at L-2 without any real reason.
-To see what Panzer's reaction would be, as he said that it is a little scummyish to put someone at L-2 with no reason.
-To see what all other players would do, as someone would have been put at L-2 without any reason.
I see that you did it for reasons 1 and 3.

Well, the only thing that bothered me a bit was that you had time to say that you were still here after the Bluehost accident. That's not completely without access. And we were waiting for your explanation. I don't know how many players told that they were waiting for you.

Also, in response to Panzer, I'm not a newbie. I've played some games with a different account, but due to the exams, I had to leave some games. This is a fresh start for me. My previous account was made in August 2008.

Darox' claim.
Null tell to me. It could be the truth to save our powerroles, but it can be scum trying to survive. I'm not going to use this claim to look at you Darox.

Further regarding post 90:
He, again, gives an answer that someone could use for their advantage. He tells what his reason could be for putting at L-2. But that's not what caught my interest. That's the following:
His reason for putting someone at L-2 would be to see how the wagonee would react. If that's the case, then why would he say that I have nothing to worry about? This could have been the reason for Charter as well, so why would he ruin that?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Ok, so much has happened while I was internet handicapped for a brief period. Many of which, are extremely scummy.

First, Darox, your claim seems completely fabricated in order to avoid any nightkill possible. It came completely out of no where and wasn't needed right now.Seems like a complete act out of self-preservation. Second, you're completely misreading the entire charter vote business. I didn't like the vote

PURELY

for the WIFOM aspect. Simply because Panzer right before said it was scummy to do so. Charter's vote was a direct challenge to Panzer's statement. I didn't find scummy the vote itself because I believe it was used more for pressure purposes rather than any other means. But the way it was brought into WIFOM territory was my major grief.

FOS:Darox

Also, with BSG, I did say first that BSG has nothing to worry about because most of the votes were random. I said this after Artem questioned why BSG wasn't focusing on the wagon on her. I said it largely because the reaction that BSG could have given had already passed. Upon rereading the incidence, BSG had already proven calm before I had stated the defense really. Despite what I earlier said about my defense nullifying her reaction, I see now that her reaction was gauged already. She proved a calm, scum hunting town. Which is what any townie should do when their is no basis for a wagon on themselves and they have nothing to defend.

The quick hammer by Xdaamno was extremely Scummy.

FOS:Xdaamno

Definitely want some answers on this vote. However, I am keeping in mind the fact that Xdaamno hasn't really been involved in the game. I think carelessness could be the major cause of his vote. He hasn't seemed to pay much attention to the game. Certainly doesn't excuse a vote of such magnitude though.

[Artifex]

Yow, I wish I hadnt gone to bed, cause everything got crazier all of a sudden.

I dont know what to make of Xdaamno's post at all. I cant imagine a good reason to hammer without even letting Artem get a chance to claim. And idea idea that we were able to pull back from this only because he forgot to unvote...it seems maybe too good to be true. I too will wait to hear from Xdaamno: did you deliberately vote before letting Artem even speak up? Did you know that you hadnt unvoted: if so, why the attempt to throw the game into chaos?

As for Darox's claim, I find it incredibly suspicious. So, basically, the only value of that role was that mafia might off you and get offed themselves...and you've thrown that away with your first substantive post. And now you've left yourself in a position that tries to make you untouchable by both town and scum alike? ...this smacks of a seperate win condition to me, if not an outright false claim.

It may not be fair to judge Darox for Lunar Ticks actions in the game, but I was already suspicious of the player you stepped in for for clearly being present (even checking in quickly after the bluehost crash thing) but not contributing at all. I didnt know what to make of the fact that right after I FOSed him he requested replacement- the two may not be connected, but you bet the thought has crossed my mind that they are. And now you come in with a claim that intends to leave you invulnerable, while taking away the one valuable aspect to town about it?

Vote: Darox

[LlamaFluff]

Xdaamno's vote in 120 does not count, as he did not unvote before casting it.

Vote Count

Artem (5) - Danchaofan, BSG, Lynx the Antithesis, Panzerjager, Master Ruck
BSG (2) - Alvinz95, Xdaamno
Darox (1) - Artifex
Lowell (1) - Artem
Lynx the Antithesis (1) - Darox
Artifex (1) - Lowell

Not Voting (1) - Charter

With 12 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch
Deadline will fall two weeks and one hour from this post

[Xdaamno]

Saved by a rule that I hate... I'm not going to complain.

I didn't know that was a hammer. Let me re-read to see how the hell we got to L-1 on page 5.

[Xdaamno]

(Did anyone actually think my answer to that question would have been "Yes"? If you're going to attack me for the hammer do so for a "lying" read, rather than the "opportunistic" nature of the vote itself.)

[Lynx The Antithesis]

You haven't been paying to much attention to this game have you?

[Artem]

Regarding my vote on Lowell:

Those of you that think I'm voting Lowell for less reasons that I've provided for other players, can you please make the appropriate quotes that show that I've given more reason to vote for other players than I have for Lowell?

...his big post targetting charter, dan, and pretty much every other user then he makes one small paragraph on Lowell and votes him for that

Those big posts were largely defense, not offense. Unless you're referring to other posts, in which case, quote please.

[Artem]

EBWOP: Unless you're referring to

some

other posts, in which case, quote please.

[Master Ruck]

Nope, still referring to that post. It just seems to me that your vote was OMGUS with the way Lowell was calling you (and artifex) a scumbuddy and you try to hide that under reasons super condensed into three lines.

Dont get me wrong, Lowell's lack of decent posting does make him look scummish, but it could also be as simple as him being stupid.

[Artem]

Nope, still referring to that post. It just seems to me that your vote was OMGUS with the way Lowell was calling you (and artifex) a scumbuddy and you try to hide that under reasons super condensed into three lines.

Dont get me wrong, Lowell's lack of decent posting does make him look scummish, but it could also be as simple as him being stupid.

I would still like you to show me one of my posts where I presented more (serious) reasons to vote for somebody else. Comparing my paragraph on Lowell to "all those big posts" is just a blurby reason to vote me without providing any kind of evidence.

[Master Ruck]

Nope, still referring to that post. It just seems to me that your vote was OMGUS with the way Lowell was calling you (and artifex) a scumbuddy and you try to hide that under reasons super condensed into three lines.

Dont get me wrong, Lowell's lack of decent posting does make him look scummish, but it could also be as simple as him being stupid.

I would still like you to show me one of my posts where I presented more (serious) reasons to vote for somebody else. Comparing my paragraph on Lowell to "all those big posts" is just a blurby reason to vote me without providing any kind of evidence.

If I could quote one of your reasons to vote someone else, then wouldn't I be voting for them? Not to mention the logical fallacy that exists when someone I think is scum asks me to agree with one of his reasons why someone else may be scum.

[Artem]

But here you're arguing that I haven't provided enough reasons to vote for Lowell, as compared to the other players:

...due to his big post targetting charter, dan, and pretty much every other user then he makes one small paragraph on Lowell and votes him for that. If he was gonna do a big post like that, I would expect some more reasons or at least more explanation as to why he would make a vote as OMGUS as that.

I am, therefore, asking you to show me why that's not enough reasons, via comparison to my other posts.

[Artem]

Also, I'm not asking you to give me reasons to vote for other players. I am asking you to show me where

I

provided more reason to vote for somebody else.

[Master Ruck]

*scanning Artem posts*

Your point is valid. You mentioned Charter quite a bit through the short course this game has led, but as you said it's all just WIFOM and not enough reason for a vote on him.

Unvote

Also,

Mod: Please prod Alvinz as he continues to lurk and say nothing.

Alvinz last posted Friday, and according to rule 7, he will be prodded on Tuesday if he has not posted by then

[Artifex]

(Did anyone actually think my answer to that question would have been "Yes"? If you're going to attack me for the hammer do so for a "lying" read, rather than the "opportunistic" nature of the vote itself.)

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

[PJ.]

So wait, why are people unvoting the scummiest player in the game before he claims? That doesn't seem very smart.

[charter]

112- Don't like it. Especially don't like the Lowell vote at the end.
116- The coincidence is that my post was right after Panzers. Also, Since I believe the idea of putting someone at L-2 to be scummy is ridiculous (per reasons I stated in 109) I didn't see that what I did would be confusing to people.
118- Hey Darox. Good case against Lynx, any thoughts on Artem? Neutral on claim, no need to act on it today.
119-

SCUM: Master Ruck

. His reason for putting Artem at L-1 is terrible when prefaced at the beginning on the post with "I'm tempted to agree with the Artem lynching as well". This is contradictory and it seems like you're out to get in an easy lynch.
120- SCUM, explain Xdaamo
122- He sure did know, he said so in his post
125- I still dont think it's WIFOM, I think it was turned into WIFOM by players, but I'm dropping this. Also, that post of mine after the site crash, I made one similar in all my games, I didn't have time or energy to read them all, so I just posted so I wouldn't get replaced. I didn't actually read anything in this thread.
126- FOS. I'll let Darox respond first.
129- Why did you say it would be a good lynch when you voted then? Not buying this.
130- Your answer should have been yes.

Artem claim

[Artem]

Vanilla townie.

[Danchaofan]

night and school = day time of the US = I miss out on a lot of action... sorry

Sure, it's WIFOM if you think that I (as scum) would do something pointless, just for the whole sake of later claiming that it was pointless for scum to do that. I would still like to hear from Lowell why he thinks his reason (b) has good motivation for scum.

It's wifom because it's a distancing maneuver (scummy) yet your argument is it's so pointless that mafia would never do it.

So 1) you dodge the issue of acknowledging you wanted to vote for charter but didn't because it would come across as scummy

Because if I voted, I would be doing exactly what I voted Artifex for, making me a hypocrite.

Am I the only one who doesn't like this? When I read this, it gives me the impression that he wanted to vote Charter, but didn't do so as it would make him a hypocrite. Isn't he admitting here that he finds Charter scummy, while saying that what Charter did isn't scummy just a few posts ago?

So, basically, I'm still a hypocrite?

There's just no pleasing you BSG.

What I

do

find interesting is that you're so concerned with whether I voted or FoSed somebody, while completely disregarding my given reasons. You said that you don't see the WIFOM. It was pointed out to you. Yet you seem adamant about your opinion of charter putting you at L-2.

2) You create a scum team of BSG and charter for really bad reasons.

The fact that you're pouncing on me, while disregarding my arguments against charter tells me that you're really not so worried about the bandwagon on yourself. Why would that be? (One scenario may be that charter (or somebody else on your wagon for that matter) is/are (one of) your buddy(-ies), so you know that they may unvote you at any point to prevent a lynch of you.)

3) BSG, scum? only if you like omgus

same quote as above.

[Danchaofan]

Darrox: Any mention of how the event actions get carried out with your role?

And AFTER that, can anyone who has ever considered using such a role or seen such a role know if the event action would be given in the role pm of a mini-normal, or could give a rough idea of how likely such a role is to appear in a mini-normal.

I think Lynx defended himself well. I don't think he should be a priority today. I do want your opinions on by the end of the day.

Alvinz, I also want your opinions on artem. I think those two (alvinz and Darrox) are the only two to not have posted anything on artem. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Danchaofan]

I don't like Xdaamno's vote, or his response to being questioned to the reason to his vote. Please pay more attention.

I don't like Master Ruck's vote/unvote- it seems scum hopping on a wagon and then being forced off after conceding his reasons sucked.

I don't these two are necessarily targets for today.

Vanilla townie claims means I have no problem carrying forth with a lynch (after darrox and alvinz post opinions) or unless artem can convince me my reasons to vote are bad.

[Artem]

Sure, it's WIFOM if you think that I (as scum) would do something pointless, just for the whole sake of later claiming that it was pointless for scum to do that. I would still like to hear from Lowell why he thinks his reason (b) has good motivation for scum.

It's wifom because it's a distancing maneuver (scummy) yet your argument is it's so pointless that mafia would never do it.

Yet, I am asking Lowell to explain why his argument point has good motivation for scum. WIFOM was not his original point of attack. Buddying/distancing was and I'm asking him to explain why it makes sense for scum to play as I did.

So 1) you dodge the issue of acknowledging you wanted to vote for charter but didn't because it would come across as scummy

Because if I voted, I would be doing exactly what I voted Artifex for, making me a hypocrite.

Am I the only one who doesn't like this? When I read this, it gives me the impression that he wanted to vote Charter, but didn't do so as it would make him a hypocrite. Isn't he admitting here that he finds Charter scummy, while saying that what Charter did isn't scummy just a few posts ago?

So, basically, I'm still a hypocrite?

There's just no pleasing you BSG.

While I "dodged" the point here, I've addressed it in my post that followed. (See my post #8)

I'm sure that if I voted charter instead of FoSed him, we would having essentially the same conversation, but with me trying to show that my vote is not hypocritical because it's for different reasons. There's just no pleasing the penguin, so I think I'll stand my ground with the FoS.

What I

do

find interesting is that you're so concerned with whether I voted or FoSed somebody, while completely disregarding my given reasons. You said that you don't see the WIFOM. It was pointed out to you. Yet you seem adamant about your opinion of charter putting you at L-2.

2) You create a scum team of BSG and charter for really bad reasons.

The fact that you're pouncing on me, while disregarding my arguments against charter tells me that you're really not so worried about the bandwagon on yourself. Why would that be? (One scenario may be that charter (or somebody else on your wagon for that matter) is/are (one of) your buddy(-ies), so you know that they may unvote you at any point to prevent a lynch of you.)

3) BSG, scum? only if you like omgus

same quote as above.

This I've also addressed in my post #8:

And it's interesting that you name Charter as my buddy, while all the other players are put into the category of buddy. Are you implying something?

My imagination runs wild sometimes.

Notice how I didn't FoS/vote any players that I conjured up a scenario about. It was purely hypothetical situation that I didn't pursue seriously in the slightest.

You're basing your arguments against me on my post #7, while the points have already been addressed in my post #8. Why?

[Artem]

Oh, and one more thing I forgot to point out.

Still, for now I will Vote: Artem due to his big post targetting charter, dan, and pretty much every other user then he makes one small paragraph on Lowell and votes him for that. If he was gonna do a big post like that, I would expect some more reasons or at least more explanation as to why he would make

a vote as OMGUS as that

.

When most of the town has me on top of their lists, I think that OMGUS argument is a little irrelevant, since it could be used regardless of who I vote for. Must really be grasping at straws for reasons there.

Let's face it. I'm the scummiest player because I am the most active/vocal. The sad truth of a forum-based mafia game is that the player that provides the most content will always be picked apart the most. The down side is that it the "active=scummy" phenomenon only encourages lurking scum.

In reality, hardly anybody of the players voting me can really clearly state good reasons for doing so. There are some that are voting me because my playstyle disagrees with theirs (Yes, I thought charter deserved a slap on the wrist, not a vote. Sure, part of it was also not wanting to look scummy, but that makes me a cautious townie, not scum). Then there are some that are voting me because I'm on top of their list, even though they've never actually clearly stated the reasons behind their votes (panzer, charter come to mind).

Then, towards the end we started getting all sorts of BS reasons. We got Xdaamno who simply agrees that I'm a good lynch without making any original contribution. We got Danchaofan who is using old content that I've already addressed as reasons. We got Master Ruck who doesn't like my reasons against Lowell and hops on for a ride as well. And finally, we have Lowell, who has a small case of amnesia and then suddenly remembers his buddying/distancing case.

So, what I would like everybody who is voting me to do is clearly and concisely state their reasons for doing so. "Because you're on top of my scumlist" or "Because you're the best lynch for today" do not count. Please also state which points, if any, against me I haven't addressed yet.

There's a fare to be on my funwagon and scum don't get to ride for free.

[Darox]

First, the claim. I'm not going to debate how likely the mod is to include a PGO because thats just playing with mod WIFOM and I already know the answer.
As for why I claimed right now, it's because of the negative factor of killing any and all town powerroles that target me, which I wanted to avoid. Even if there is only one other power role out there it still gives equal probability of being targeted by town or scum, and in the likely event there is more the chance of killing town powers increases. The small chance of taking a scum with me isn't worth that in my opinion.

And now, back to current events.

Xdaamno, it seems there's a bit of a discrepancy between your vote and subsequent post.

The original attack on Artem was obvious BS, but I'm surprised Artem needed me to point that out for him.

After a re-read

, it's a good lynch right now.

Vote: Artem

Saved by a rule that I hate... I'm not going to complain.

I didn't know that was a hammer.

Let me re-read

to see how the hell we got to L-1 on page 5.

I'm wondering how you could have missed an important detail like L-1 when you said you had reread the thread and then came back saying you didn't realize and said you needed a reread. It's hardly enough to get me on any Xdaamno wagon, but it strikes me as odd.

And now for the juicier meat.

Second, you're completely misreading the entire charter vote business. I didn't like the vote

PURELY

for the WIFOM aspect. Simply because Panzer right before said it was scummy to do so. Charter's vote was a direct challenge to Panzer's statement. I didn't find scummy the vote itself because I believe it was used more for pressure purposes rather than any other means. But the way it was brought into WIFOM territory was my major grief.

So you didn't like charters vote, but you did like the vote, and you would do it yourself, but you don't like the WIFOM. It seems you're holding a very contrary position here and playing both sides of the field.
But answer this. If panzer hadn't said what he did, would charters vote still be in 'WIFOM territory'?

Onwards...

Also, with BSG, I did say first that BSG has nothing to worry about because most of the votes were random. I said this after Artem questioned why BSG wasn't focusing on the wagon on her.

I said it largely because the reaction that BSG could have given had already passed.

Upon rereading the incidence, BSG had already proven calm before I had stated the defense really. Despite what I earlier said about my defense nullifying her reaction, I see now that her reaction was gauged already. She proved a calm, scum hunting town. Which is what any townie should do when their is no basis for a wagon on themselves and they have nothing to defend.

Now this is pretty much a textbook turnaround. First comment on BSG, you defend her and explain her calm response. In the second comment, you denouce your actions and state her calm response was false because you muddied it with your defence. In this third comment, you go back to her being a calm townie completely unsullied by your defence and even counter your previous statement that it ruined reactions by stating 'the time for a reaction had already passed', which begs the question of why you ever issued the second comment. You've done so many 180's that I'm surprised you can still see straight. And it doesn't explain why you felt compelled to defend her in the first place.