Mini 730 - Hard Nights in the City - OVER!

[Plum]

Plum...excellent post...exactly what this game needed to get going.

Thanks, but now I'm going to have to try really hard to ignore this, as I find flattery can be annoyingly distracting from my actual suspicions, and, unfortunately, scum have complimented me in the past and benefitted from it (flattery changed my vibe on a game's SK once, as Nameless might vaguely recognize. Bad).

Anyway, it's funny that you say this while we have apparently opposite thoughts on the same subject, both at the beginnings of our latest posts: You apparently think that Geraintm was playing over-innocent by appearing not to know the definition of WIFOM? No, asking whether Nameless really believed that assuming Geraintm-town, the weekend V/LA would be really detrimental to the town. There's no wine about it. In any case, Dan eventually explained that he meant that the WIFOM was in Geraintm appearing to imply that he was scum. That was a stupid,pardon me, idea on Dan's part but I don't see the freaking WIFOM in it. And I certainly don't see any indication that Geraintm knowingly used WIFOM at all, and that his question you quoted certainly had nothing to do with him pretending not to know what WIFOM means. Huh.

[Juls]

I think Geraintm played it over innocent throughout that whole discussion. His not knowing what WIFOM was, his innocent question of "do you really think it will hurt us that bad?" when he should definately know that lack of contribution on weekends would not be very detrimental. The whole sequence struck me as too dumbfounded and innocent. It may not necessarily be scummy but it is something I will need to look into more to see if he is just that type of person or if he was trying to endear himself to the people in this game. For the record, I don't think anything in there was WIFOM, I was merely commenting on his demeanor when being accused of it.

And as far as my comment on your post goes...I don't necessarily have to agree with everything you say but if you spark a serious discussion then that is what is

excellent

about it.

[Plum]

I think Geraintm played it over innocent throughout that whole discussion. His not knowing what WIFOM was, his innocent question of "do you really think it will hurt us that bad?" when he should definately know that lack of contribution on weekends would not be very detrimental. The whole sequence struck me as too dumbfounded and innocent.

It was obvious that Geraintm's 'Why the what?' comment was 'what WIFOM are you talking about' not 'what do you mean by WIFOM'. His response about 'do you really think it will hurt us that bad' agrees with your statement that it would not be very detrimental, as Nameless was implying that it might imply some sort of disadvantage for whatever alignment Geraintm is. Geraintm's agreeing with you there, so I don't see your complaint; the one who believed it might be detrimental to the town was Nameless (arguably, as the 'I hope you're Mafia if you can't post on weekends' seemed considerably less than fully serious to me anyway.

[Juls]

Hmmm....perhaps this is just a case of not hearing the tone of someone's comments because it is text rather than verbal. I read it another way. If your version is correct, and it probably is, then it is a moot point. I took Nameless's comments about "I hope you are mafia" to be a joke either way because the deadlines will be on Thursday's with 48 hours to get kills in. Thus mafia has to work on weekends.

[Plum]

If 'on the weekends' means 'on Saturday and Sunday' by Geraintm, no one should have reason to worry that his window of opportunity for night actions will be entirely cut off.

Mentioning this: I'm always V/LA from Friday afternoon through Saturday evening, no exceptions; exact times vary throughout the year, but in what should be a quick-ish game, you'll probably not see much variation. As above, if I have a night action to send my brief weekly V/LA will not interfere with the sending thereof.

[don_johnson]

Quote from Don_J:

funny. it is "ridiculously stupid" and has "no benefit", yet you use my self vote to show your towniness.

Wait, what does this have to do with anything? Everyone's trying to prove their alleged townieness; the point was that selfvoting generally tells little about the voter. Yes?

mega never actually said the word "useless", but i felt he was implying that my self vote was exactly that. i was just pointing out that it wasn't as he was obviously

using

it to show his towniness.

i liked your post, though i would definitely request less "stream of consciousness" posting. i do it as well sometimes, but i find it easier to communicate when things are structured well.

vote: megatheory

the more i think about it the more i realize that on page 1 he used my self vote to not only paint me in an anti town light, but to show off his towniness. he pseudo threatened me with a lynch by implying that i didn't understand what i was doing, pushed the discussion on(perhaps due to ego), and then backed off after threatening to find me suspicious. not finding me suspicious, but threatening to.

if i were to assign each player a number and then roll a die to cast my vote "randomly", i would have just as much chance of landing on myself as any of you. to insinuate that a self vote in the rvs is any more or less informational or beneficial to town than any other random vote in the same stage of the game

before

ensuing discussion reveals any relevant information regarding players alignments is bad logic.

juls: i believe it is a well earned fos and would be happy to say that if one of us flips scum, town should

definitely

lynch the other before lylo(if the situation arises). i do understand the inherent risk of the self vote and am more than happy to live(or die) with the consequences. wifomic? yes. but only until my death.

[SpyreX]

The CanadianBovine REALLY should be called MapleCow Votecount:

Gerantim(1):Danchaofan
Danchaofan(1):Nameless
Nameless(1):Porkens

Megatheory(3): ChaosOmega, Plum, Don_Johnson

ChaosOmega(1):canadianbovine
canadianbovine(1):insanepenguin02
Juls(1):Megathroy
Insanepenguin02(1):Juls

[Plum]

i liked your post, though i would definitely request less "stream of consciousness" posting. i do it as well sometimes, but i find it easier to communicate when things are structured well.

Sure, sorry about that; just having started from the beginning of the game with three pages to analyze it sort of came out that way. Rest assured that my posts aren't, as a rule, structured like the one you mentioned.

[Porkens]

Ok, this officially is out of RvS

unvote

I'll do a better read and get some thoughts out. soonerish.

[insanepenguin02]

Now that I have some time to analyze and post, I figured I would give my assessment of how the game is going to this point. Enjoy! lol

First off, I

Unvote

because I now feel ready to make some real decisions as this game as picked up and we are getting down to business with some REAL good discussion happening so far.

Secondly, in my analysis of each person playing, I will use this scale:
1 = Definitely Scum.................5 = Neutral...........10 = Definitely Town

Atronach: 7 (Noob Town)

1) Seemed worried about the amount of "needless/useless" discussion between don and mega and doesn't think that it is relevant to the discussion. But no other thought on it? Do you think it is scummy or do you find it completely useless with no meaning?
2) You stated that you think too much time is being spent discussing and not finding scum. How would you prefer to look for scum? In my opinion, we find out the most info by voting and discussing.
3) I will completely agree with a comment that you have made though as after I did a complete read-through, I had the same feeling:

I also think it's possible that the two of them are deliberately derailing the game, too- I'm just not as sure about Mega.

4) One more question: Why did you say that you should FOS Plum and not Vote? And one more question (lol): You also state that you find more people more suspicious than Plum (or the other lurkers). Why?

canadianbovine: 4 (Lurking, little discussion Scum)

1) Bold move - 2nd post from canadian was a vote against chaos for not having a reason. I agree, it was suspicious but a vote? Why did you vote instead of FOS?
2) What do you think of chaos' reasoning behind his vote for mega?
3) This is the only part of the game thus far that you have contributed to. I would like your thoughts on more than this issue. You bring up people not starting discussion but you yourself haven't started much conversation. Please respond to some of the happening thus far as it will benefit us all.
4) Post more info.

chaosomega: 3

1) 4 posts thus far and only one with content.
2) Your vote with no reasoning presented was EXTREMELY suspicious! And then how do you follow it up?

Who says I don't have an explanation for it?
And Juls, you haven't voted yet. Why?

Why didn't you give your explanation then? You didn't have it yet? You wanted to keep us in the dark? Not very pro-town behavior there IMO. And then why did you point out Juls not voting yet? Do you think that by voting yourself (for no reason at that point) was better than somebody not voting at all?
3) In your last post (your reasoning behind Mega's vote), you say that there really isn't much to go on. So why did you vote instead of FOS? What do you think of don, the other end of the mega issue?
4) I agree with some points that you made against Mega such as: him looking suspicious after his "don't self vote" post, "convincing" don that self-voting is bad, and that he should be pressured.
5) In a way, I am feeling that you may be scum, aligned with Mega just due to your suspicioius behavior and vote on your scum-buddy Mega for no reason for a couple days.
6) Post more - it should only benefit you as the only things that you posted thus far have been heavily weighted towards suspicious behaviors. For now:

FOS:chaos

.

danchaofan: 7

1) Perhaps a little quick to pull the vote trigger on ger due to his WIFOM post. And then you follow it with your own "WIFOM" post about if mafia would do this or not. do you still find this suspicious? If so, why haven't you discussed it much more since voting? If not, why haven't you unvoted?
2) You said that you wanted mega's answer about his "pushing points early" but never posted any of your own thoughts on it. So what do you think about mega?
3) I like your "calling out" of Juls. I understand it was a joke but think that it is slowly becoming a valid point as she hasn't done much to change that perception yet.
4) Not too much of a scum vibe from you at this point but I would like to get some more analysis on the game from you. What do you think about what is going on? What is your reaction to having votes on you?

don_johnson: 3

1) First off, the self-vote which has been a good spark of discussion and has brought up the point about self-pointing (if it has one). It sure was ballsy to start off that way. I have to say that at first, I saw it as just something stupid and meaningless to get the game started for you, especially since you did unvote shortly after. But as time goes on, that feeling has changed....
2) THIS IS ALL THAT YOU HAVE TALKED ABOUT!!!! WHY?!?!?!
3) If I had to take a stance on you right now, I would say that you and mega agreed at the start of this game to throw a pointless conversation out there right off the bat so that you two scum buddies could really spin the heads of the townies. If this is true, it will be very interesting to see how it progresses. If this is false, you have mega to blame (and yourself a little) for really putting a bull's eye on you, in my eyes.
4) Please post something about another aspect of this game soon or I we will have no other info to work off of to get a fair picture of who you are. If you are town, I would get out of the arguement ASAP. Especially since the door was opened for you to finish but you didn't.

FOS: don_johnson

- post something more!

geraintm: 5

1) First, are you still in the game? I know that I need to wait until Monday for this answer and I am fine with that. But your last post hinted at you getting replaced so I just want to clarify.
2) I believe that you have only posted real-life info thus far with no game content. That all equals absolutely no read at this time. When you get back, please post ASAP with some game content, if you are still in the game...

Juls: 7

1) I want to know why you chose not even to throw a joke vote out there?

And Juls, you haven't voted yet. Why?

Because nothing has compelled me to vote yet. I was thinking about throwing a joke vote out there but conversation got underway. I don't think don_johnson is scummy for self voting and I dont thing megatheory is scummy for making a huge deal out of it. I am watching and reading and when I get ready to place a vote I will do so.

A vote of some kind would have been nice. You seemed to have gone against what you were saying. You said that votes spark discussion but then you say that you decided not to vote....
2) I thought that you were kind of skimming along but then you followed up with a great, analytical post (though against ME, lol), which makes me think that you have what is best for the town in your objectives. And the fact that you didn't want to partake in the "pointless" debate of self-voting, etc. and would rather see these analytical posts has me see you much more townie as a result.
3) What do you think of geraintm exactly? Do you think that he doesn't understand WIFOM? Or do you think it is a play? What is your opinion on the matter?
4) Thanks for posting my posts for me! (That was sarcastic) I have to say that I have been remaining active, giving my thoughts on what was going on at that time and trying to get a feel for the other people in the game. That gave me the needed info to make this sort of analysis. How do you feel about my amount of contributions in this post?
5) Lastly, I have to agree with you about don_johnson and mega being a "forced arguement". Do you therefore think that they are both scum? If we all find that they are not in this forced arguement, who (if any of them) would you still think is scum or suspicious?

Megatheory: 3.5

1) You voted for danchao for one reason (voting for somebody based on their thoughts on a possible lurking player) and later unvoted for another reason (danchao's reaction to votes). I have a couple questions here: IF that is the reason you voted for him, what do you still think of the issue, both about geraint being MIA and about danchao's initial vote on him? And then also, what impressed you so much about danchao's "reaction to the votes" on him that caused you to unvote?
2) Why are you SO intent on having don_johnson see the concept of self-voting your way? I would assume that you have already read what I have to say about don_johnson so you should know that I am eyeing the two of you as being possible scum buddies with a plan to spin the townies' heads with a pointless arguement. So why so much between the two of you????
3) What I find really interesting here is that you were also then quick to say that you were NOT pushing, voting, etc. for don_johnson. Why, you don't want your scum buddy to get votes on him? (That was mean, I'm sorry )
4) BUT you are fielding other people's questions, giving some analysis on other people, etc. so I don't think that you are as scummy as somebody like don. You seem to be attempting to get out info from others that would be pro-town but more analysis on what YOU think about others would be very insightful in my eyes.
5) However, posts like these make me really start to settle on the fact that you truly are scum:

Why are you implying that I'm scum? Do you find me suspicious? If so, why?

Why would you want to bring this up? So that you can get another's opinion and make yourself less scummy? Interesting....
AND, when asked if you would want to drop the arguement with don_johnson:

I'd love to, really, I would. But you are using such weird logic in this discussion. You are unwilling to recognize any risk to yourself, and you keep turning it back on me, like I will be lynched regardless of the fact that I'm not pushing you, nor did I find you suspicous before. You're certainly getting there, though.

All in all, I want to say:

Vote: megatheory

.

Nameless: 7.5

1) What was your plan behind stating you wish geraintm was mafia due to him being gone over the weekends?
2) Why is your vote still on danchao? Your reasoning initially was because of his reaction to geraintm being gone. What is it now?
3) I think that you have given some good insight into the game with such things as: analysis on mega, mafia/town sensitivity to votes, unnecessary votes, etc. At this point, there isn't much that I read from you (other than the top two points) that would suggest anything but town. However, please post more analysis on others in the game. If you had to, who would you choose as being the most townie and the most scummy thus far??

Plum: 8

1) Very insightful post by you on your thoughts on the game. Though it was hard to follow, I get a good feeling that you are wanting the best for the town.
2) Why is it obvious that geraintm's question was that he didn't understand what the WIFOM was for? I don't follow. Why couldn't it be that he didn't understand what WIFOM stands for?
3) Other than mega, who you voted for for good reasons IMO, who would you vote for if you could? Porkens? Who do you think is appearing t he most townie thus far?

Porkens: 4.5

1) PLEASE post more. You have 5 posts but little content. If you are town, this is bad play. If you are scum, this is a tell IMO.
2) why do you feel that mega suggested that he and don_johnson are town? What was there specifically in mega's post that brought this to your attention and made you think to bring it up to everyone? What do you now think of them and their arguement?
3) Why were you so hellbent for a little bit on lynching Nameless? And why wouldn't you want him to answer?! No matter the result of that lynching, we would have been working off of NO info and that makes it seem very scummy IMO. You seemed very certain but now, without any info about it, you changed your vote. Why? Was the first vote random, as you would almost suggest in your last post? This is so confusing....
4) I am patiently waiting for your additional thoughts because you really need them to come soon so that others don't start getting an uneasy feeling about your play so far....

Overall

So I hope this all makes sense as this has taken FOREVER!!!! I would like to know everyone's thoughts here. I have a few FOS's out and one new vote.

[Porkens]

Porkens: 4.5
1) PLEASE post more. You have 5 posts but little content. If you are town, this is bad play. If you are scum, this is a tell IMO.

With this extended Day 1, I'm not really worried about posting like crazy. Day 1 is usually dry to me until it's time to look back at it, anyway. I will make an effort to contribute, and I appologize if it seems like I've been ignoring you guys.

2) why do you feel that mega suggested that he and don_johnson are town? What was there specifically in mega's post that brought this to your attention and made you think to bring it up to everyone? What do you now think of them and their arguement?

The tenor of his "teaching" voice, to me, assumed that the scummy behavior was just bad play. It didn't seem to me that he was even considering the possibility that his "student" was town.

3) Why were you so hellbent for a little bit on lynching Nameless? And why wouldn't you want him to answer?! No matter the result of that lynching, we would have been working off of NO info and that makes it seem very scummy IMO. You seemed very certain but now, without any info about it, you changed your vote. Why? Was the first vote random, as you would almost suggest in your last post? This is so confusing....

Of course it was random/silliness.

4) I am patiently waiting for your additional thoughts because you really need them to come soon so that others don't start getting an uneasy feeling about your play so far....

Fair enough :p

moar later

[don_johnson]

ip: what a wonderful, long, and insightful post. you must be town.

don_johnson: 3

1) First off, the self-vote which has been a good spark of discussion and has brought up the point about self-pointing (if it has one). It sure was ballsy to start off that way. I have to say that at first, I saw it as just something stupid and meaningless to get the game started for you, especially since you did unvote shortly after. But as time goes on, that feeling has changed....
2)

THIS IS ALL THAT YOU HAVE TALKED ABOUT!!!! WHY?!?!?!

3) If I had to take a stance on you right now, I would say that you and mega agreed at the start of this game to throw a pointless conversation out there right off the bat so that you two scum buddies could really spin the heads of the townies. If this is true, it will be very interesting to see how it progresses. If this is false, you have mega to blame (and yourself a little) for really putting a bull's eye on you, in my eyes.
4) Please post something about another aspect of this game soon or I we will have no other info to work off of to get a fair picture of who you are. If you are town, I would get out of the arguement ASAP. Especially since the door was opened for you to finish but you didn't.

FOS: don_johnson

- post something more!

to answer your question(which i bolded): perhaps its because that is the only thing people are talking to me about. i am aware of other goings on in the thread and will comment on them when i see fit. funny how this is the only direct question you ask me. post something more?

okay, here's something more:

you are willingly hopping onto a bandwagon with two players you find scummier than the person you are trying to lynch. you rate both chaosomega and me as scummier than megatheory(co:3,dj:3, mt:3.5). yet you vote for megatheory. please explain your rationale behind this vote.

[Nameless]

Don't like Juls's vote on Penguin. Juls' contribution at that point still wasn't that much, yet that was why she Foss and votes Penguin. "Really bad vibe" isn't much of a reason. She uses phrases like "this post is long enough" when the majority of the post is just quotes, flattery, apologising for noncontribution before this point, or in one case just an agreement.

Vote: Juls

I'm not really seeing Geraintm "playing innocent" or anything, either, but that's up for interpretation. And FYI, I only made the comment about not posting on weekends = bad because I'd misunderstood the posting requirements.

i liked your post, though i would definitely request less "stream of consciousness" posting. i do it as well sometimes, but i find it easier to communicate when things are structured well.

This makes me laugh because you have trouble finding your Shift key. But seriously, you're exaggerating Mega's scumminess in your

game theory

exchange and saying one of you must be scum is

very wrong

. (Protip: Townies disagree often, and you are getting tunnel vision. There will be more than one scum, why not take a break from Mega and try to give opinions on who the others might be? You're allowed to have some initiative rather than wait for questions, you know. -_-)

@ Porkens #83: [Sarcasm]No, really?[/Sarcasm]

Fos: Porkens

just for that.

@ Penguin's #84: Large contribution, but quite a few questions rather than hard analysis and some points/assumptions are bad/wrong. Getting a nulltell overall. In response to the questions directed at me:
- See the second paragraph of this post.
- I hadn't felt the need to place a serious vote yet, but there hasn't been any pressing reason (such as a sudden bandwagon) to unvote either.
- I'm as yet undecided on who the most scummy is (kind of hard to tell between scummy/newbie yet in some cases ... Juls, Atronach and Mega anyway, although I'm not liking the actual bandwagon on Mega), and saying who the most townie is would generally benefit the scum's choice of nightkill.

[Plum]

Plum: 8
1) Very insightful post by you on your thoughts on the game. Though it was hard to follow, I get a good feeling that you are wanting the best for the town.

Fine (note to self: the Preview button is there for a reason).

2) Why is it obvious that geraintm's question was that he didn't understand what the WIFOM was for? I don't follow. Why couldn't it be that he didn't understand what WIFOM stands for?

On reread, I suppose it's possible that such was the case. Knowing that he's played games (occasionally followed one he happened to be in), it simply did not occur to me as a possibility. I still think that my first interpretation is more reasonable, especially as it's known that sarcasm often has a hard time traveling the internet gulf

3) Other than mega, who you voted for for good reasons IMO, who would you vote for if you could? Porkens? Who do you think is appearing t he most townie thus far?

Porkens . . . meh, apparently his stabs at Nameless were sarcastic (another example of the above principle), though I don't happen to have Vibes of Awesomeness on him either. Juls, maybe.

While I won't be quite as sarcastic about it as DonJ was about it, it

was

nice for you to put forth some decentish analysis and ask some relevent-seeming questions.

Nameless makes a good point about Juls as well. Canadianbovine is yet another poster who needs to put forth some real substance. So Juls has voted Penguin for a post of little substance even though she's posted with little substance; Penguin expresses strong suspicions of ChaosOmega for lack of substance despite his previous general lack of substantial contribution.

Those who live in glass houses people, is all I'm saying. Hypocrisy is straight-up anti-town.

you are willingly hopping onto a bandwagon with two players you find scummier than the person you are trying to lynch. you rate both chaosomega and me as scummier than megatheory(co:3,dj:3, mt:3.5). yet you vote for megatheory. please explain your rationale behind this vote.

This right here.

[insanepenguin02]

you are willingly hopping onto a bandwagon with two players you find scummier than the person you are trying to lynch. you rate both chaosomega and me as scummier than megatheory(co:3,dj:3, mt:3.5). yet you vote for megatheory. please explain your rationale behind this vote.

Thanks for focusing elsewhere.

To be honest, the third vote made on mega was made as I was making my near hour and a half post (watching fball too) so I thought that I was going to be vote 3. However, I am very comfortable with my vote on mega as his reaction and possible lynching will tell me much more about my other feelings and analyses that I didn't post of as well as the more general analysis that I posted.
I guess that that doesn't really affect me much (joining a forming wagon) as long as I am comfortable in my reasoning with my vote. I will VERY rarely vote unless I have very sound reasoning to vote.

I hope that answers your questions.

[insanepenguin02]

While I won't be quite as sarcastic about it as DonJ was about it, it

was

nice for you to put forth some decentish analysis and ask some relevent-seeming questions.

thank you.

Nameless makes a good point about Juls as well. Canadianbovine is yet another poster who needs to put forth some real substance. So Juls has voted Penguin for a post of little substance even though she's posted with little substance; Penguin expresses strong suspicions of ChaosOmega for lack of substance despite his previous general lack of substantial contribution.

Those who live in glass houses people, is all I'm saying. Hypocrisy is straight-up anti-town.

you are willingly hopping onto a bandwagon with two players you find scummier than the person you are trying to lynch. you rate both chaosomega and me as scummier than megatheory(co:3,dj:3, mt:3.5). yet you vote for megatheory. please explain your rationale behind this vote.

This right here.

I can completely understand that I didn't post much beforehand. I'm sorry. But as the game has only been going for a few days now, I don't think that it is too much to go off of just yet. Notice that my actual vote was for MUCH more than activity. I brought activity and post content up but that is what I have to work with so far. Once people post more (like I did), the more analysis will be able to form and the better the reads (ir the 1-10 rating) will be.

[insanepenguin02]

@ Penguin's #84: Large contribution, but quite a few questions rather than hard analysis and some points/assumptions are bad/wrong. Getting a nulltell overall. In response to the questions directed at me:
- See the second paragraph of this post.
- I hadn't felt the need to place a serious vote yet, but there hasn't been any pressing reason (such as a sudden bandwagon) to unvote either.
- I'm as yet undecided on who the most scummy is (kind of hard to tell between scummy/newbie yet in some cases ... Juls, Atronach and Mega anyway, although I'm not liking the actual bandwagon on Mega), and saying who the most townie is would generally benefit the scum's choice of nightkill.

Well, at least somebody is asking plenty of questions then. The more answers from questions, the more analysis I can get, so maybe in the future (after more info), I can give you some "hard"er analysis.

Please inform me how some of my points and assumptions are bad/wrong. As far as I know, nobody other than mafia (or time traveler) would be able to tell me if my ASSUMPTIONS are wrong. For that statement, I have an eerie feeling.....

FOS: Nameless

....

Thank you for your answers. I agree, it may be hard to tell between noob and mafia (or power role) just yet. Why don't you like the wagon on mega?

[insanepenguin02]

And EBWOP - Nameless, please let me know about the bad assumptions/points as that is the sole reason for your FOS

[canadianbovine]

canadianbovine: 4 (Lurking, little discussion Scum)

1) Bold move - 2nd post from canadian was a vote against chaos for not having a reason. I agree, it was suspicious but a vote? Why did you vote instead of FOS?
2) What do you think of chaos' reasoning behind his vote for mega?
3) This is the only part of the game thus far that you have contributed to. I would like your thoughts on more than this issue. You bring up people not starting discussion but you yourself haven't started much conversation. Please respond to some of the happening thus far as it will benefit us all.
4) Post more info.

1) We were still in what i felt was the random voting stage, where, despite what it is named, I feel is where we can vote for less then good reasons, it gets some humor out of the way, can reveal some about what kind of a person they are. But Chaos not giving his reason stuck out as scummy. And a FOS in the voting stage doesn't really say a lot.

2) I accept ChaosOmega's argument. Megatheory's argument and outburst against Don_Johnson was rather unexpected...I don't see it as scum. I think he has a different ideal about self voting, Obviously, he thinks its stupid to self vote. Nobody here really agrees with him, and neither do I. It obviously sparked good conversation and got the game rolling, I'm sure Don_Johnson didn't mean to do just say " haha I'm so funny i voted for myself," and thats how Megatheory read it.

3) Lets see there is....the self voting, discussion of ger not being here for two days, juls not voting, and this bandwagon on Megatheory.

I feel that i answered already that I think self voting was correct, it started off the discussion in this game.

I feel that ger not being hereisn't that different, seeing as how the are other people on here who haven't either been here or posted that often ( me included). At least he announced his V/LA for 2 days a week, not that it really matters, for if he has a night action he could still do it on friday or thursday night.

I think anyone whose read my 4 other posts [sigh, i will post more i promise] would know how I feel against not voting and not conversating. Before the discussion of not voting, her 2 posts were either or meta or just backing up a point. She still wouldn't vote, but then she voted IP, and then voted you for she felt you were lurking. She could of just as much voted me for it. I'm surprised she didn't vote for Megatheory since her 4th post basically said "I'm going to wait for a bandwagon and vote on that"

And lastly the Megatheory bandwagon. I think this is 4 votes? He is now halfway to getting lynched.

Plum in the same post your FOS on Megatheory turned into a Vote, what sparked this?

CO - Anti Town =/= scum. please post more.

Don_Johnson- OMGUS

5) [there is no five question] i ask you, IP, why you took your vote off me who you said was a lurking scum, and put it on the bandwagon, on someone who you haven't conprehended as the most scummy in your previous post?

unvote, FOS insanepenguin

. Theres your FOS.

one more thing to add on: Megatheory: You said you weren't pushing Don and you don't find him suspicious....so...why did you vote him and question him and rant about self voting?

[Juls]

Unvote: insanepenguin02

The recent posts from penguin are enough to eliviate my suspicions of him but even though Nameless doesn't like the "bad vibes" I am still not 100% convinced he is town. I will keep my eye on it.

I am relatively new but I have been told in the past that making a town/scum list is not a good idea. From what I have been told it benefits scum more because they see what everyone thinks of others and can help them keep around the more suspicious people with their night kills. I learned this because I did it myself. So take that for what it's worth. I certainly don't want to go on another theory tangent about whether lists are good for town or scum.

juls: i believe it is a well earned fos and would be happy to say that if one of us flips scum, town should definitely lynch the other before lylo(if the situation arises). i do understand the inherent risk of the self vote and am more than happy to live(or die) with the consequences. wifomic? yes. but only until my death.

This statement seems strange to me. This is very anti-town. I can only see a scum saying this. If we lynch Mega first and he flips town then you have covered youself because you know he is town therefore your request to be lynched would not apply. If we lynch you first and you do flip scum you are trying to get mega to be lynched next and taking one for the team. I am less convinced you and mega are scumbuddies and more convinced that you are scum. Let's pretend now that you are town. Why would you want to get yourself lynched if mega flips scum? I don't like this at all.

Vote: don_johnson

I know I have more questions to answer from others and more comments to make but my dinner is beeping so I have to go for now...more later.

[Nameless]

Please inform me how some of my points and assumptions are bad/wrong.

It's hard to actually answer this since nearly everything you say is worded as a question you can easily deny implications of later (how convenient for you) BUT:
eg. you misrepresent Atronach saying he thought "too much time is being spent discussing and not finding scum." when all he actually referred to was the one theory discussion between don and mega.
eg. you accuse Juls of hypocrisy by not voting after saying votes generate discussion, but you even quoted Juls explaining serious discussion had already started so there was no need.
eg. you imply Mega is scummy for asking why somebody is suspicious of him, which is stupid, because players kind of need to know why in order to defend themselves or know if the other player is BSing.

Why don't you like the wagon on mega?

Some of the votes have been poorly justified, and there has been little attention towards Don despite him being IMHO more at fault for the exchange. Also, it irks me.

[don_johnson]

juls: i believe it is a well earned fos and would be happy to say that if one of us flips scum, town should definitely lynch the other before lylo(if the situation arises). i do understand the inherent risk of the self vote and am more than happy to live(or die) with the consequences. wifomic? yes. but only until my death.

This statement seems strange to me. This is very anti-town. I can only see a scum saying this. If we lynch Mega first and he flips town then you have covered youself because you know he is town therefore your request to be lynched would not apply. If we lynch you first and you do flip scum you are trying to get mega to be lynched next and taking one for the team. I am less convinced you and mega are scumbuddies and more convinced that you are scum. Let's pretend now that you are town. Why would you want to get yourself lynched if mega flips scum? I don't like this at all.

more than one player has speculated at the megatheory/don_johnson scum pairing. if mega were lynched and flipped scum this would cast enough doubt as to my alignment that i feel it could be devastatingly bad for town in a lylo situation. the other scum would have a premade case to get me lynched thereby costing town the game. this would work vice versa. i never said that one of us is definitely scum, and i never stated that lynching one of us would offer any clues as to the others alignment. i just don't want to hand scum an easy argument at lylo.

To be honest, the third vote made on mega was made as I was making my near hour and a half post (watching fball too) so I thought that I was going to be vote 3. However, I am very comfortable with my vote on mega as his reaction and possible lynching will tell me much more about my other feelings and analyses that I didn't post of as well as the more general analysis that I posted.
I guess that that doesn't really affect me much (joining a forming wagon) as long as I am comfortable in my reasoning with my vote. I will VERY rarely vote unless I have very sound reasoning to vote.

I hope that answers your questions.

not in the least. are you saying that you want to lynch megatheory for "information" instead of lynching one of your top two scum suspects? how would lynching megatheory clue you in to anyone elses alignment, especially considering he has been tied up with me for most of the thread? where is this "sound reasoning" you speak of?

i liked your post, though i would definitely request less "stream of consciousness" posting. i do it as well sometimes, but i find it easier to communicate when things are structured well.

This makes me laugh because you have trouble finding your Shift key. But seriously, you're exaggerating Mega's scumminess in your game theory exchange and saying one of you must be scum is very wrong. (Protip: Townies disagree often, and you are getting tunnel vision. There will be more than one scum, why not take a break from Mega and try to give opinions on who the others might be? You're allowed to have some initiative rather than wait for questions, you know. -_-)

i NEVER said that one of us

must

be scum. thanks for noticing, but believe me, i am aware of the perils of tunnel vision.

[Juls]

1) I want to know why you chose not even to throw a joke vote out there?

Because the conversation was serious by the time I read the thread again after confirmations. It was somewhat pointless to do it at that point.

What do you think of geraintm exactly?

After reading Plum's arguement I think I may have misunderstood. See my post #78.

Lastly, I have to agree with you about don_johnson and mega being a "forced arguement". Do you therefore think that they are both scum? If we all find that they are not in this forced arguement, who (if any of them) would you still think is scum or suspicious?

See my post #94 for my current feelings regarding don_johnson/megatheory

She uses phrases like "this post is long enough" when the majority of the post is just quotes, flattery, apologising for noncontribution before this point, or in one case just an agreement.

Ouch. I apologize if you didn't find my analysis of a whole 3 pages (where probably 2 were the don_johnson/megatheory arguement) to be long enough. My comment that "this post is long enough" was because it seemed long enough to me. I am not a big fan of writing books when I post. And it felt longer since I read for a good hour while making that post.

[Atronach]

Atronach: 7 (Noob Town)

1) Seemed worried about the amount of "needless/useless" discussion between don and mega and doesn't think that it is relevant to the discussion. But no other thought on it? Do you think it is scummy or do you find it completely useless with no meaning?

The longer it went on, the more I thought it was scummish. That it went on so long without either of them realizing that it would be detrimental to town to continue their gametheory debate seems improbable. The debate in my mind was whether or not it was scummy from both sides.

2) You stated that you think too much time is being spent discussing and not finding scum. How would you prefer to look for scum? In my opinion, we find out the most info by voting and discussing.

I stated that there was too much time being spent on the discussion of self-voting.

4) One more question: Why did you say that you should FOS Plum and not Vote? And one more question (lol): You also state that you find more people more suspicious than Plum (or the other lurkers). Why?[/quote]

What I felt about Plum was best expressed in FoS: I found it mildly suspicious that she was lurking and wanted her to respond to me. At the time I voted, I didn't realize there was such a thing as FoS.

[Danchaofan]

1) Random vote with crap logic. I haven't developed any suspicions, gera isn't in lynch territory, I'm too lazy to use bold tags.

2) Interesting question, nothing substantive appeared to me though, yet.

3)

MOD: When is deadline

. I'm willing to wait longer to see how activity translates to scumminess.

4) I don't see them as votes as honestly I think they are caused by a miscommunication regarding my first vote.

My first vote was a "random" vote. Sorry for the lack of any indication that it was not serious. My second post also was "random" I tried to indicate by the emote and the "current serious level: -25%".

Call me dcf please =)