Mini 727 - Mafia in Standardville - Game Over

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I'm not a huge fan of the Artem L-2 vote from charter, but I do find it interesting that Artem didn't vote. There's no reason not to vote. I think Artem is being careful not to draw the same attention he received from his first vote.
Vote:Artem

See above. (Also, if there is no reason not vote, then why aren't you voting charter yourself?)

I'm not voting Charter because I don't find his vote suspicious. I think it fufilled it's intended purpose by evoking a response. On the otherhand, you FOSed him. You've expressed some suspicion of the move so thats why I asked why you didn't vote for him.

So do you think it's scummy only because of the WIFOM? Do you think that charter is not an opportunistic scum pouncing on an easy target then?

BSG shouldn't be worried about the wagon on himself because the wagon is largely from the random voting. I think to say that's he's not worried because a scum partner's on his wagon is a stretch. I wouldn't be worried about it either because there's no basis for the wagon. There's little he can do to defend it. All he can do is continue to scum hunt which he is currently attempting to do.

[BSG]

You're not pouncing an easy target? But you wanted to as post 39 gives that impression. You only FoSed him, because you didn't want to come across as a hypocrite, as said in post 39. If you FoSed Charter for the WIFOM, then why no vote as it wouldn't make you a hypocrite. You're now making up excuses why you aren't voting Charter.

And no, Charter's vote wasn't WIFOM. You made it WIFOM in your own mind. I can see two reasons why Charter would put me at L-2. And none of those reasons includes WIFOM. I'm waiting for him to tell his reason. From that I'll look if it was scummy or not.

Besides, why should I be afraid for the votes made against me? Most of them were random votes. If town lynch a player with many random votes, then there's something strange going on with the wagon. If I'm lynched with most of these votes, it will only give information. So I don't see why I should be bothered.

And it's interesting that you name Charter as my buddy, while all the other players are put into the category of buddy. Are you implying something?

[Lowell]

I like artifex or artem more as scum more than BSG right now. Lynx looks town.

[Artem]

I can FoS charter. I can also vote for him. It doesn't make much difference right now as there is no bandwagon on him. I'm not pouncing on an easy target. I'm giving him a slap on the wrist, because townies (assuming he is one) shouldn't play with WIFOM as it distracts and confuses the town.

But, isn't the point of a FoS that you only use it when you already have a vote down? As far as I knew, it served only to show that you think that person is scummy but not as scummy as the person you're voting for. If you have no vote on someone, but you find someone suspicious, vote for them!

Another reason to FoS and not vote is if you feel that FoS is enough.

I feel that, at least until charter explains himself, an FoS is enough.

So do you think it's scummy only because of the WIFOM? Do you think that charter is not an opportunistic scum pouncing on an easy target then?

Both statements are correct.

You're not pouncing an easy target? But you wanted to as post 39 gives that impression. You only FoSed him, because you didn't want to come across as a hypocrite, as said in post 39. If you FoSed Charter for the WIFOM, then why no vote as it wouldn't make you a hypocrite. You're now making up excuses why you aren't voting Charter.

I'm sure that if I voted charter instead of FoSed him, we would having essentially the same conversation, but with me trying to show that my vote is not hypocritical because it's for different reasons. There's just no pleasing the penguin, so I think I'll stand my ground with the FoS.

If town lynch a player with many random votes, then there's something strange going on with the wagon. If I'm lynched with most of these votes, it will only give information.

Agreed.

And it's interesting that you name Charter as my buddy, while all the other players are put into the category of buddy. Are you implying something?

My imagination runs wild sometimes.

I like artifex or artem more as scum more than BSG right now. Lynx looks town.

Care to explain?

[Artem]

Also, why does it feel like there's only five of us playing?

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

BSG (4) - Alvinz95, Xdaamno, Panzerjager, Charter
Artem (3) - Danchaofan, BSG, Lynx the Antithesis
Master Ruck (1) - Lunar_Tick
Artifex (1) - Lowell
Xdaamno (1) - Artifex

Not voting (2) - Master Ruck, Artem

With 12 alive its 7 to lynch

[Artifex]

Also, why does it feel like there's only five of us playing?

I count more than five contributing players, but I agree that I'd like to hear more from a few of the quiet members like alvin and lowell.

I also think you feel that way due to this:

Time will tell.

I can see two reasons why Charter put me at L-2. But I'll let Charter respond to this first.

But I do find doing it basically as a 'so there' to be reckless and weird. But both you and charter have implied theres something else going on, so Ill hold off on my opinion of this for a bit.

charter deserves a FoS, because of the WIFOM. There is, however, a reason for a townie to do what he did. So, yes, let's have charter respond to it first.

I can see two reasons why Charter would put me at L-2. And none of those reasons includes WIFOM. I'm waiting for him to tell his reason. From that I'll look if it was scummy or not.

A bunch of us are waiting for Charters next post to provide some insight into his vote. When I went back to find his last post, I realized it actually hasnt been that long at all (I must be suffering from 'watched pot' syndrome) so I'd say he's due some more time to pop back in.

In any case I'll be checking in tonight after class and, if Charters still not around I'll stop waiting and start looking at other players too.

[Artifex]

I like artifex or artem more as scum more than BSG right now. Lynx looks town.

Okay really quick before I go, why to all four people mentioned.

[Master Ruck]

I like artifex or artem more as scum more than BSG right now. Lynx looks town.

Care to explain?

I like artifex or artem more as scum more than BSG right now. Lynx looks town.

Okay really quick before I go, why to all four people mentioned.

In short, Lowell, explain.

[PJ.]

@Charter, Why the WIFOM? It's scummy to put someone at L-2(which is claim zone) for no reason, so why did you do knowing that it would be WIFOM. You're an experianced player, you should know better.

Unvote, FoS:Charter

@Everyone asking Artem why he didn't vote: Thats what an FoS is. A public statement expressing that you feel someone is suspicious but not sure that they are actually scum. After the random voting stage, you should only vote someone you intend to lynch.

@ Lowell, I want reasons.

@Artem I believe, why is it bad to go after easy targets? And what classifies an easy target? If I claimed scum would I be an easy target and would you vote me?

[LlamaFluff]

Due to recent site problems, I am extending the deadline by two days, making it January 25th, 11:00 AM PST.

I sent a mass notification about the site problems and the new location of the game, as it has changed slightly. I will not begin a search for replacements untill Saturday to give people time to find this site. Either posting here or picking up your PM will give me notification of you want to continue playing.

Also Charter has a noted V/LA untill the 11th. Offical prods for those who need them will be sent tomorrow.

[Artifex]

Llama, I managed to catch your first PM in that brief window, but I dont know if the site ate my response back, so I'm just checking in. Hope everyone's still around!

[charter]

I'm on vacation, I will read up when I get back on sat, sorry!

[PJ.]

/confirm

[Danchaofan]

what are we confirming?

Why does my last post feel ignored? (re-posting for convenience)

Maybe I have a slightly more fundamental issue. What's wrong with going after easy targets? i.e. if someone outright states they are mafia, are they an easy target? Should you vote for them? (assuming nothing crazy like suicide roles.)

I want explanations from lowell

anyone care to explain the wifom of charter?

BSG makes a good point of artem wanting to vote but not because he thinks he would be hypocritical.

[Master Ruck]

We're confirming that we're all still here after the site down time.

[Lowell]

@panzer, I dont' really remember why I said that right now. My brain stopped working when the site crashed, TBH.

No doubt there's a great reason, though. I'll figure it out.

[BSG]

Actually, make it three reasons that I can see why Charter put me at L-2.
I find it also strange that two players call Charter scummy, but don't vote him.

[Artem]

@Artem I believe, why is it bad to go after easy targets? And what classifies an easy target? If I claimed scum would I be an easy target and would you vote me?

From the scum's point of view, an easy target is a townie that is easy to attack because they've done scummier things than others.

From the townie's point of view, it's a little difficult to tell who constitutes an easy target. The best we can do is watch for the reasons player A jumps all over player B. For example, during the random voting stage, Artifex voted for Xdaamno because he put a third vote on BSG. At the time, putting a third vote on somebody was the most unusual (scummiest?) thing, so I called Artifex out for jumping on an easy target.

If you claimed scum, I would FoS you for WIFOM to begin with.

[LlamaFluff]

Alvinz95 has been prodded.

Also Lynx is the only person has not posted/picked up the post crash activity check. I will begin replacement searching on Monday as needed.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Confirm. I'm still here and ready to play.

Panzer, why is it only scummy to put someone at L-2? You put BSG at L-3. There isn't a huge difference between the two. You're calling out charter on his vote which is very similar to your own.

Also, Lowell, I believe it's a cop out to say you forgot everything since the site crashed. You could easily reread the pages and recall your earlier thoughts. I think you just don't want to back up your vague statements with some actually evidence.

[Artifex]

From the townie's point of view, it's a little difficult to tell who constitutes an easy target. The best we can do is watch for the reasons player A jumps all over player B. For example, during the random voting stage, Artifex voted for Xdaamno because he put a third vote on BSG. At the time, putting a third vote on somebody was the most unusual (scummiest?) thing, so I called Artifex out for jumping on an easy target.

Yeah, I get the thought process here. I did look for the 'most unusual (scummiest?) thing' when trying to formulate a vote. This is my third mafia game (though the first on this site) and the game moves faster out of RVS when there's actually something to talk about. I was able to start forming opinions on Xdammno (and you, and everyone else who commented really) pretty quickly. And you know, theres always a chance that the action you're calling out looks scummy cause it is scummy, though even I thought that was unlikely.

That said,

unvote

. Nothing in his reaction prompted me to think of Xdammno as scummy.

If you claimed scum, I would FoS you for WIFOM to begin with.

Id outright vote for you. Im trying to think of a reason why vanilla town would claim scum and failing, whereas I can think of a few off the wall possibilities that scum would actually do so. To try and reign this hypothetical back to the topic, I think thats a pretty extreme example of 'easy target' and not really what was happening in this case.

[Artifex]

Okay, before the crash I said I'd focus on other players than charter and since he's on vacation anyway-

Artem- It seems to me that the two things that have Artem under fire are 1) the me/Xdaamno/'easy target' comment and 2) the FOS of charter. Ive already said I get the easy target thought process, and him questioning it seems more pro town to me than scum looking for a way to point the finger elsewhere. The FOS/charter issue- I think Lynx summed up the argument about this pretty succinctly:

I'm not a huge fan of the Artem L-2 vote from charter, but I do find it interesting that Artem didn't vote. There's no reason not to vote. I think Artem is being careful not to draw the same attention he received from his first vote.

This is a possibility, but I think that artem's answer is at least as likely to be true:

charter deserves a FoS, because of the WIFOM. There is, however, a reason for a townie to do what he did. So, yes, let's have charter respond to it first.

A lot of us are waiting for some more information on charter. I'll be interested to see what happens next here.

Summation: I may have questions but...not really feeling a scum vibe here.

alvinz95- impossible to tell. Frustrating, but will have to wait until he shows up or gets replaced.

Master Ruck (Aoshi)- Thankfully, Master Ruck replaced so early that I'm not really having to take Aoshi into account (Welcome, BTW!). Ruck has started out strong, with some scum hunting type questions. I'm still looking for some actual opinions from you though, both on players and events in the game. town.

Danchaofan- I find most of Danchaofans posts to be based on clarifying issues that seem to be bothering him. Upon a reread, I realize they're mostly focused on Artem. A question for you: your vote for Artem is from RVS- is it still a random vote? What are your thoughts on other players.

Lunar_Tick- two jokes on the front page. That's all I've got. The second joke, about charter's FOS, had a (?)semi-serious side to it and got quoted and requoted so much that I had the sense Lunar was a more active player than hes been:

Are you actually defeating your own argument with a counterclaim of "but it's under Panzer's name"? Surely one oughtn't use ones fos so lightly, neh?

Considering I know post crash that you've checked in with our mod, I'm wondering why you're so quiet. It feels like you stirred things up a bit and then sat back to watch. I'm pointing a

pinky-FOS at Lunar

Lowell- A vote for me without explanation, then a post with some opinions on four player's scum factor without explanation. I actually like the having opinions part, because as I've reread the game I've noticed we have some players who are hesitant to do that. But it doesnt help to know what you think if there's no explanation why. I'll buy needing time to reread for now, but I'd still like you to offer those four lines of reasoning when you come back.

BSG- I think his answer to why he didnt panic when he was at L-2 is very pro town:

Besides, why should I be afraid for the votes made against me? Most of them were random votes. If town lynch a player with many random votes, then there's something strange going on with the wagon. If I'm lynched with most of these votes, it will only give information. So I don't see why I should be bothered.

I'd be interested to know your thoughts on the other players.

Lynx The Antithesis- His actions seem pretty clear and consistent to me, and he's pointed out inconsistencies (or perceived inconsistencies anyway) in several players thus far. Beyond that I dont have much of a read yet.

charter- I feel like I'm in limbo in regards to charter. Ive pretty much said what I still feel already, which is summed up in post 56. I'm holding my peace with this one until he gets back.

Panzerjager- not much in the beginning beyond some jokes and then the initial statement in post 29 that set charter off. Recently some good questions asked of multiple players. You're someone else I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts about players.

Xdaamno- He kept his cool when I singled him out, which I found promising. An initial suspicion of Artem back in post 21 that you've since recanted a couple of times. So what are your current thoughts on the game. You're still voting BSG, is that current or still random?

[PJ.]

From the scum's point of view, an easy target is a townie that is easy to attack because they've done scummier things than others.

So voting someone you find scummier then everyone else is scummy and attacking an easy target? Riiiiiiight. Also, if you FoS someone who is claimed scum, you clearly are a poor player. Assuming their are no Jester-esque roles, you lynch the claimed scum, period.

Panzer, why is it only scummy to put someone at L-2? You put BSG at L-3. There isn't a huge difference between the two. You're calling out charter on his vote which is very similar to your own.

There isn't much of a difference, L-2 is completely arbitrary. Charter knowing that it would start stuff, knowing that it was WIFOM, but put the 5th vote on because he knew it would bring pressure off of Artem's easy target talk. L-2 was bait, Charter snagged it. I would like for him to answer my previous question.

[LlamaFluff]

Bump for top of page votecount