Mini 729 - WaTR Mafia - Game Over!

[BSG]

Yes, I

Voted Korts

last night. But all my posts disappeared

[BSG]

Can't blame RS for picking that path as it seems like he didn't even mean to -

unless there's something in his role about being the one who picks the way

, it looks like he was voting for a direction without realizing he was actually picking it.

Unvote Vote Occam

Do you like to fish?

Prom King, can you explain from what you got that gut feeling?

[BSG]

No, you weren't fishing . You just didn't know at the time when you wrote that that the first who would bold a path would decide which path to take. Instead of reading to look in this game how RS decided which path, you start talking about a possible role of RS. Now tell me how that isn't fishing.
And I don't see how you could have missed the part why RS decided which road.

[BSG]

Precisely. It's printed right up there. And you missed it. The only way how you could have missed it is if you didn't read it. And that's scummy.
Besides, I find it very scummy that you posted without knowing the exact details.

Then the rolefishing thing, it's not a defence when you say 'it isn't fishing'. Please say why you don't see it as fishing.

[BSG]

Call it what you want, speculating, set-up discussion or rolefishing. Either way, he was talking about a role which could be in this game. And what would town gain from talking about possible roles? It will only out said role if it's present in the game. This will only help scum.
But if anyone can show me how it's good for town to discuss a possible role, then I'm willing to drop this.

My reason why I find it scummy that he didn't read the game/didn't know the exact details of the game. It's simple. When you don't know what has been said, you can't help us with your opinion. You have an other view of this game than the players who have read the game. By posting while thinking in your view, it will only cause confusion by the players with the other view. Causing confusion isn't something a town player should do. That's why I find it scummy.

And I think that this answers post 26 as well.

Strange that you voted me after two players pointed something out, which you already mentioned. Why didn't you vote me sooner?

[BSG]

Post 41. A
You didn't know yet that the first who would bold a path, would decide the road. At this point, you speculated about a possible role, which could have been true for you at that point. So in the case of not knowing what was going on, who would gain more from your role speculation?

B
Did you read my reason?

My reason why I find it scummy that he didn't read the game/didn't know the exact details of the game. It's simple. When you don't know what has been said, you can't help us with your opinion. You have an other view of this game than the players who have read the game. By posting while thinking in your view, it will only cause confusion by the players with the other view. Causing confusion isn't something a town player should do. That's why I find it scummy.

C
Post 24 was my latest post yesterday. You had post 26, with no vote. Korts and Raider come in the discussion. Post 30 is your next post, with a vote. My question was why you waited with your vote. I have no idea what you read as my question.

[BSG]

Again A
Both go together. When you didn't know the rule yet, you started to specualte about a role which could exist in that set-up. So explain to me how talking about a possible role in that set-up would have helped us in that set-up?

B again
Ppl can cycle Of course they are intending to do harm to the environment. Why do you otherwise think that the penguin is forcing me to do stuff I don't want to do ?
And to me it stays suspicious. An example won't change my mind about that.

Last, C
Only that in that HOUR, two other players posted in which both said that they didn't agree with me. That gives the impression that you only wanted to vote after you saw that others agreed with a reason to vote. But further it's fine.

FoS Prom King

for that circular argument made in post 50.

MM can you please understand what you're saying in posts 58 and 60, because I have no idea what you're meaning.

[BSG]

The reason for my Korts vote was based on his immediate reaction to Rogue's choosing of our path.

Personally, I don't think a mafia member would be dumb enough to choose our path - putting himself in the spotlight right off the bat.

So please explain why you voted me PK.
And I'd suggest that you look at post 68, the post directly above your last post.

[BSG]

Unvote Vote MonkeyMan576

FoS Occam

Still find you suspicious, Occam, therefore I'm giving you a FoS. However, MM is very suspicious.
Voting LN, first based upon the wrong reasons. Voting LN, for reasons that other players did as well. And only talking about LN, while he first voted based upon something RS did, so why hasn't he give comments against RS?
And some minor things, like ignoring questions, like mine (post 63) and Occam's (post 82)

You've got some explaining to do.

[BSG]

MM, nothing else to say?

[BSG]

Based on this information I got in my role pm, it's somewhat hard to believe that there are masons in this setup - but I won't rule out the possibility entirely. It just doesn't really make sense.

Could you explain this a bit more?

Prom King, does your PM mention Freeko's allignment?
What are your reasons for voting Occam?

Maybe now you understand why I was exploring another linked pair possibility.

Nope, so please explain. Even if you're a mason, it doesn't justify the fishing.

And it would be nice if Korts could explain why he thinks it's bad to lynch one of Freeko or Prom King.

Occam, you may state the reasons why you voted Kiro.

Well, I can think of one situation I've seen in which one mason knew that his partner was town, while the other didn't know his partner's allignment. This was the case in Mafia 84. One of the masons was scum and his buddy was town. But this is the only game I know in which it was the case. In all the other games I've seen, the masons were confirmed or not (Neighbours).
It would be nice if Prom could tell us a bit more.

I have just had enough of you at this point.

The best reason for a vote ever

Freeko, could you perhaps paraphrase your role? And also, just in case you missed it, both MonkeyMan and Sipylus haven't posted yet after the claim. Strange that you FoS them now.

[BSG]

@Korts
Was there nothing else mentioned besides that?

Vote Prom King

Based upon his last post.

[BSG]

@Juls
PK was fishing in his latest post. This is a huge scum tell in my book. Include the content in his posts and him ignoring our questions and he definitly deserves my vote.

[BSG]

Before I'll go into the things that has been said since VI's first post (welcome BTW), I'd like to know from Freeko what his role is called in the PM.

[BSG]

Before I'll go into the things that has been said since Vi's first post (welcome BTW), I'd like to know from Freeko what his role is called in the PM.

Repeating myself especially for you freeko. And I fixed it especially for Vi (I'm so sorry)

[BSG]

See my previous post about your comment of Vi's wrath...
Perhaps I should start begging.

And is that first sentence aimed at me of your post or not? If it is, I'll go into it after I've gotten the answer from Freeko.

[BSG]

Noted that you don't want to give information to the town.
The same goes for asking to trade the names of our roles.

So, why don't you want to tell? You've got something to hide ?

[BSG]

Rolefishing when the role is already known? That's new to me...
So it would be more name fishing...And what's bad about that?
I also am wondering why you're making such a trouble of it as before you were telling many times you were confirmed. But now that that's been proven wrong, you're getting into defence mode.
It's also nice to see how much you care about your win condition:

BSG is the one that is rolefishing. Therefore I will not answer him unless he gives me reaon to. The only reason I would EVER answer a question like this is if he pays the price

I

want him to. Even you could realize the implications if he is willing to pay

my

price for information.

And now I'd like to use a PotS-quote:

RECOMMENDATION TO THE SCUM:

1. Bus
2. Bus hard

unvote vote freeko

Can you also warn me when your next OMGUS vote is coming?


And Rhinox, please look at post 381. Perhaps Vi spares me as I'm not the only one who has to start begging .

[BSG]

Then state it. What do you have to lose if you're town as your role is already known. I'd like to hear the name from you that is mentioned in your PM.
Or is there a reason that you can't state it?

[BSG]

First of all, thanks for acknowledging my begging. The penguin won't forget this.
And after seeing your last post, I'd have liked it more if you had entered this game immediatly. Nobody wanted to wagon Korts with me .

@Vi
I can't see how PK could make a mistake like that. According to freeko, it's mentioned at his PM that he doesn't know what the allignment is of his partner. The same, according to you, is written in your PM. So I don't see how come PK was sure that freeko is innocent. I know you can't answer for PK, but do you perhaps have an explanation how he could have missed this?
And could you explain the part of '(if not confirmed Town)' said in post 390?


@Korts
I asked, because the claim has changed a lot. First they were masons, then when Vi comes in, it changed to neighbours. Nothing much, as this could be an honest mistake. But then I thought back of MM's role which was cleric. According to the mod, this meant that he was a doc. My role has also a completely different name than usual. This is most likely the case with everybody.
What I do find odd is that one of them claimed merchant, while the other claimed merchant companion, so I'm not sold yet on either claim.


@Vi
I'd like to know what the difference is between me and Raider. According to you, I flew completely under your radar. You say sorta the same about Raider. So how come Raider is scummy to you, while having no read on me?

[BSG]

Flavor name, as it was already clear that the actual name isn't mentioned in the PM.

[BSG]

There's only one thing that I have trouble with regarding Korts' claim.
It has all to do with the following quote and the explanation he has given about it.

I think cleric is supposed to be doctor applied to the theme. But on second thought, I can't imagine sheep as clerics.

And this quote:

I didn't have anything to imply that not every townie would be that.

So if possible, I'd like a full claim. And could you add the flavour mentioned like Freeko did? I'll explain everything when I've received the information.

BSG, just to clarify, were you asking freeko to confirm what his role is labeled as in his PM (mason or neighbor)...

This has caught my attention as well. My actual rolename isn't named. From the look of the comments given by freeko and Vi, they weren't told if they wre masons or neighbours. All there was stated was that they didn't know the other allignment. So if this is the case as well with Raider, Juls and Korts (Is your role name mentioned in your PM or not), then there is a clash with the role PM you've got with those of ours. If two of the three mentioned above have their real role name mentioned, I'm willing to leave this aside. So Juls, Raider and Korts, could you please state if your role name is mentioned in your PM or not?

And Rhinox, I'd like to know what is more scummier to you: Asking for a role name trade (like freeko did) or 'fishing' for a flavor name (like I did)?


@Vi
I've seen him play in two games my sister was in...
So I can see your point about Puta.

The only mentions of sheep I can recall have been from Korts, the mod (he was a sheep) and Occam (he said something very early about sheeps walking on mountains and something about a sheppard later on).

I find the Occam bit mentioned here, very interesting.


Rhinox, all the assumptions you have made in post 416, are completely wrong. Me and freeko have completely different roles, so how should I be able to compare it. And based upon the information I have received in my PM, I can tell you that scum don't have a reason to flavor fish names...
But this is one of those times you have to trust someone with their word, so I can understand that you won't accept this piece.


Uhm... freeko? You were fishing for my role, I was fishing for your flavor name. Two completely different things. In my opinion, what you did is much worse. As I've seen that you want to hear Korts' full claim (What's your reason for that anyway?) I'm really happy with my vote.


Don't like the votes from Rhinox and freeko against Korts.
Rhinox as he had only good things to say about Korts until Vi pointed something out, which made him suddenly obvscum.
Freeko's reason is just to see if Korts is teeling the truth about the watching, while there's also a different way to check this.


Why I asked for a flavor name:

I asked, because the claim has changed a lot. First they were masons, then when Vi comes in, it changed to neighbours. Nothing much, as this could be an honest mistake. But then I thought back of MM's role which was cleric. According to the mod, this meant that he was a doc. My role has also a completely different name than usual. This is most likely the case with everybody.
What I do find odd is that one of them claimed merchant, while the other claimed merchant companion, so I'm not sold yet on either claim.

Is there nothing else you can say regarding post 439, Raider?

I knew that Korts said something sheep like before...

What was it?
And what do you think of Occam, who also mentioned sheep and shephard in his previous posts as pointed out by Juls?

And why is a sheep claim weak? The mod's flavor hints at at least some of us being sheep

I'm now putting huge question marks at your claim.


@Raider
If Korts confirmed claim doesn't make him less town/scum, then why did you confirm a sheep claim?
I also don't understand the part of a post restriction mentioned in post 455


Also Vi, this is a real daykill


Will look at the battle between Vi and Rhinox tomorrow. I don't like quote wars...
Besides, it's time for X factor ...

[BSG]

First of all, sorry for the misunderstanding freeko. I thought that you were fishing for my role name instead of my flavour name...
So I'm willing to give that if ppl want me to.


@Raider and Juls
This is only for confirmation. Korts gave as answer to my question this:

Instead of the standard "you are a <rolename>" I got "you are a sheep."

So did you receive a role name, like Doc, Cop or Vanilla townie
Or a flavour name, like Merchant, Sheep or Pilgrim?


I'll write something I find interesting about Korts soon as I don't know how to write it down right now... I'm having some troubles writing it down so that it's clear what I mean. So I'll get back to that when I've found out how to do that.


@Raider
Regarding post 439. Some examples:
-Why did you think that Freeko would claim sheep?
-Is the reason why you think that the sheep is town mentioned in your PM or not? If not, why do you think it?
-Your PM mentioned 2 sheep if I'm correct. According to you, the first sheep was Jebus. Is this stated in your PM or not?

Could you also answer this as I think you missed it in my previous post:
And what do you think of Occam, who also mentioned sheep and shephard in his previous posts as pointed out by Juls? (aka couldn't he be a sheep?)


@Vi
Yes, I am. But there's only one place where I mentioned it. Why were you looking at that game?
Anyway, she hasn't said much about you. But she has told some things about other players who are here in this game. I think that those players know who I'm talking about .


So I'll be trying to get that part of Korts up ASAP. Hopefully, I can get my thoughts out clearly.

[BSG]

Sorry for 'staying away'. I just have some things going on at school which takes away my time to look back at stuff said. I first want to post the thing about Korts before going into the other things said.

Anyway, Rhinox, I got that information due to my role. And I'd be very surprised if you and I have the same role. Have you caught any large fishes yet?

[BSG]

Responding to prod. As said, I have been busy, however the holidays are starting tomorrow so I should have a post with content tomorrow. But now, I'm going to celebarte 'Carvanal'

[BSG]

Sorry, have been sick lately. I told the mod, but it was apparently not put in the game itself. I'm not better yet, but I had to respond in one game today. And I saw that you guys were looking who to choose for the watch.
I rather would be it myself, but otherwise I support Juls. I'm not in favor of letting one of the claimed neighbours watch. I have no read on Tubby, which is most likely the case with me in your opinion. Which leaves Juls and Rhinox for me. Of those, I think that Juls looks more town.