Mini 709 - Musical Mafia - (Game Over!)

[Wall-E]

I am strongly against lynching people for enjoying their holiday vacations, Gamma, for the record.

Vote Count:
Atlas - (0)
Budja - (1) Wall-E
corporate - (0)
Gamma - (0)
jerseygoomba - (4) Atlas, Gamma, RestFermata, zachattack
JordanA24 - (0)
My Milked Eek - (0)
RestFermata - (1) Tolmides
Tolmides - (0)
Wall-E - (5) My Milked Eek, corporate, jerseygoomba, Budja, JordanA24
WhereIsTony - (0)
zachattack - (0)

With 12 alive, 7 votes will end the day.

[jerseygoomba]

I am strongly against lynching people for enjoying their holiday vacations, Gamma, for the record.

I totally agree.

[Gamma]

can't say i didn't try

So, while we twiddle our thumbs waiting for the rest of the players to get back, how was your vacation? I enjoyed mine.

[My Milked Eek]

While I appreciate you playing to my posts (it shows you're paying attention), my 'inability to detect subtlety' is a ruse to make sure people clearly communicate themselves for the whole classroom.

I get that, but there's a difference between noting things that are there and noting things that you think that are there. I hope it somewhat makes sense.


I'd rather wait for the replacements to come here, if any, or for anyone else to return.

So...

Great holiday... Studying for exams in January >_>

[Gamma]

Bump.

[zachattack]

Apologies for being away, I've been promising a case against Jersey for a while, but the lack of activity has caused me to lose a lot of interest in this game. I'm doing this now, hopefully it sparks some activity.

[jerseygoomba]

zach,

Let me give you some more ammo for your case:

I AM TOWN (Very scummy claim here). YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME BUILDING A CASE AGAINST A TOWNIE. (More scumminess).

Ugh...the ignorant folks I have to deal with in this band...

[zachattack]

No, I wasted my time earlier when I tried to build a case on Wall-E, because he annoyed me and I wanted to justify hammering him. After reading his post's it became apparent there was no case against him. You are scummier than him, you are the scummiest of all of us, except maybe Budja, and with the game the way it is, there is no chance of getting Budja lynched today.

[zachattack]

You came under suspicion very early in the game for suggesting that putting the second vote on someone in the RVS is scummier than the 3rd or 4th vote. Once Gamma claimed vig and broke the game wide open, you slipped under the radar a little bit.

I'm thinking out loud. I wanted to see if anyone else shares my concerns or thinks I'm overreacting (again). Not to mention, I want to give Gamma a chance to respond before I decide to vote for him. After all, isn't more discussion better than less, especially on Day 1? I want to make sure I am making a theoretically educated vote at this point.

At this point Gamma had made several responses to peoples concerns about his vig claim. This post looked like you were trying to gauge the towns opinion on voting for him, seeing if you could hop on the bandwagon safely, or if you would look suspicious because of it. I've always felt that people that are overly cautious with their votes are scum. Unless your a potential hammer, or putting someone in position to be hammered, you have no reason not to put your vote on someone you find suspicious if you are pro-town. In post 118 you made another post saying you were suspicious of Gamma but not convinced he was scum, in 119 Budja voted for Gamma, in 120 I called you out for not voting players you're suspicious of, and in 121 you voted Gamma. It looked like an attempt to appease me, as well as keep the heat away from you.

Since the town seems so dead set on keeping Gamma around tonight, I will

unvote Gamma

But I still do not see how his kill can be "proven".

This seems like you thought you could get momentum on a Gamma lynch, and once it became apparent there was none you washed your hands of it. If you thought he was scum, you should have kept your vote on him regardless of what the rest of the town thinks, unless you had someone else you found more suspicious.

We had a big spurt of activity for a few days (Imagine! Activity in this game! It seems so long ago) where Wall-E went into epic douche mode.

Wall-E, what makes you think Nekka is scummier than corporate?

Guts.

Umm...I don't exactly feel comfortable with making life or death decisions based solely on guts. I actually prefer some logic go behind things. If that is truly your answer Wall-E, I have to say the band might be better without you. I don't want to bring you to L-1 until we hear from Nekka, so I will refrain for now.

OK Wall-E, after rereading your posts on there own, I have decided to take you up on a challenge you posted earlier (Post 130):

So, we are not killing Gamma. Everyone get your votes onto ANYONE else. Yes, even me. Unlike Gamma I won't claim until L-1, so be fearless and attack!

I had unvoted Gamma way back there. I'm going to give you a chance to make your claim.

VOTE: WALL-E

Nekka didn't post in between those posts. Before the Guts post, the thread had been very active, and many of us were putting votes on Wall-E, and it looked like the bandwagon was about to run him over. In between, the thread slowed a little bit as we all waited with baited breath for Nekka, and a couple of people started a small bandwagon on him. It seemed like jersey thought they were so close to a lynch on Wall-E, and he didn't want the momentum to slip away, so he tried to push it over the edge.

I'm breaking up the wall of text, I'll finish soon.

[zachattack]

RF replaced Nekka, and voted for you, bringing up several good reasons for doing so. Almost every post you've made since then is you being over defensive any time someone mentions that you've been acting scummy. In fact, you've made 3 posts in the past two weeks, and two of those came minutes after I said I was going to build a case on you.

1. Gamma - The reason I did not vote Gamma right away was I wanted to hear more information from the town. I figured if I jumped the gun on a vote, I would be called scummy for voting without much info. So, instead I get called wishy-washy. So, I'm thinking, crap, I better just vote because folks are going to think it is scummy if I just point fingers and DON'T VOTE. After hearing further information from the rest of town about Gamma, I felt that I DID incorrectly jump the gun, although I admit to feeling pressured into it by being called wishy-washy. So basically Gamma became a damned if I do damned if I don't situation. If he is the vig, we won't know until after Night 1 anyway.

Why are you so desperate to have the town believe you aren't scummy. It's the scums job to appear townie, it's the town's job to find mafia. I'm not really concerned with what the town thinks of me because my goal isn't to survive, it's to make sure that scum don't. And there wasn't really a lot said about Gamma in between your vote and unvote that wasn't said before you're vote, Tolmides made a post saying we should keep him around, that you FOSed him for, Wall-E said 'Good we're not killing Gamma' and then you unvote. Looking back, your FOS on Tolmides seems like 'How dare you railroad our bandwagon' then when it became apparent no one was interested in the bandwagon you went 'lol unvote'.

There's also your 'I voted Wall-E way before he was put at L-1' when your vote for Wall-E put him at L-1, but that was page 20, not that long ago, and I don't need to reiterate it. So yeah, you're overdefensive, desperate to appease the town and appear townie in our eyes, and it seems like you're hoping the town lynches Wall-E quickly enough so that other's don't realize how scum you are. You're probably scum, much more likely to be scum than Wall-E, and I hope the rest of the town takes a good look at you before deadline/Wall-E gets lynched.

[My Milked Eek]

Happy scumday Gamma.

I'll unvote wall-e and jump ship to jersey. zach's case convinced me that it's better to have jersey lynched than Wall-E at this stage.

And to kickstart the game again, I think we could use a lynch and jersey's is more likely to get through.

Unvote. Vote: Jersey

Also, what are we going to do with gamma's nk?

[zachattack]

I think Gamma should NK Budja or Wall-E. Budja is my number 2 scum, he's guilty of a lot of the same things that I accused Jersey of, and he and Jersey have been on the same page for much of this game. Wall-E, although he is not really suspicious to me, is suspicious to others, and although I think the mafia is pushing that lynch, not everyone on it is scum. His attitude is very distracting, and if he is town, he's still always going to draw town votes away from the actual scum until he is gone. As he's been the center of attention almost the entire game, we will be able to learn a lot from his interactions with other players, no matter his alignment. I think Gamma should make the final decision, as there is the potential for roleblockers, and Jersey's alignment will obviously affect his decision.

[RestFermata]

I agree with zachattack against jersey. All of Jersey's recent posts have been bland, generic "I'm town" defenses that mean nothing at all. What does he expect, that we'll go "OH you're town? EVERYBODY GET YOUR VOTES OFF! Jersey claimed pro-town!" I can expect that he should defend himself, but honestly, his defenses have been unspecific and unsatisfactory.

I think Gamma should NK Budja. He played the "not a good player" card when I called him out for acting scummy. If Gamma gets RB'ed, fine. All the more reason to string up Budja. Maybe it's WIFOM, but I'm fairly certain he's scum anyway.

As for Wall-E, I don't think Gamma should kill him. Not yet. That'd just be letting him distract the town in

yet another

way in my opinion. I really don't think he's scummy. If both Budja and jersey end up being town, well, that'll be a different story. But at this point I'm betting that one if not both of them are scum and that Wall-E is town. I'd opt for a scum death over an annoying townie death any day.

[jerseygoomba]

Man...Wall-E has to be laughing his ass off at this point.

[WhereIsTony]

As for Wall-E, I don't think Gamma should kill him. Not yet. That'd just be letting him distract the town in

yet another

way in my opinion. I really don't think he's scummy.

If both Budja and jersey end up being town, well, that'll be a different story.

But at this point I'm betting that one if not both of them are scum and that Wall-E is town. I'd opt for a scum death over an annoying townie death any day.

I am always supicious when people start saying if (name) is town than (other name must be scum).

[RestFermata]

Well I don't much like that kind of logic either, WIT. It's just that if my top two suspects are town, I'm going to have to start rethinking things. I don't have much else to go on if Budja and jersey flip town.

[corporate]

back from vacation. finally.

[WhereIsTony]

Very solid case on JG zach, I am re-reading his posts in context now. Will let you know if I agree.

[WhereIsTony]

hmmn are we wating for any replacements or vactioners currently?

[My Milked Eek]

5 replacements iirc.

[zachattack]

Tolmides, Jordan, Atlas and Budja. Corporate didn't pick up his prod and was one of the five, but he's back now so that leaves four.

[Gamma]

IMO I still think Wall-E scum is a terrible concept.

Also, gj guys actually focusing attention other to wall-e. Posting my case against Jersey soon.
<3

[corporate]

gimme a day to catch up and ill be back in the game.

[Wall-E]

You came under suspicion very early in the game for suggesting that putting the second vote on someone in the RVS is scummier than the 3rd or 4th vote. Once Gamma claimed vig and broke the game wide open, you slipped under the radar a little bit.

This sounds like you're blaming jersey for Gamma's claim somehow. Is that right? Please clarify.

I'm thinking out loud. I wanted to see if anyone else shares my concerns or thinks I'm overreacting (again).

Not to mention

, I want to give Gamma a chance to respond before I decide to vote for him. After all, isn't more discussion better than less, especially on Day 1? I want to make sure I am making a theoretically educated vote at this point.

At this point Gamma had made several responses to peoples concerns about his vig claim. This post looked like you were trying to gauge the towns opinion on voting for him, seeing if you could hop on the bandwagon safely, or if you would look suspicious because of it. I've always felt that people that are overly cautious with their votes are scum. Unless your a potential hammer, or putting someone in position to be hammered, you have no reason not to put your vote on someone you find suspicious if you are pro-town. In post 118 you made another post saying you were suspicious of Gamma but not convinced he was scum, in 119 Budja voted for Gamma, in 120 I called you out for not voting players you're suspicious of, and in 121 you voted Gamma. It looked like an attempt to appease me, as well as keep the heat away from you.

I disagree with anyone who claims that trying to get "off the radar" or "out of the lynch" is necessarily scummy. I agree with you that jersey needed to put up or shut up on his finger-pointing, either with a vote or some strong evidence why he should not vote for his #1 suspect.

Let me point out the bolded words above: Have you ever heard someone telling a lie and they gave two or more reasons for their actions? Like if I said, "I wanted to go to the store. Also I wanted some gum." People who do that are usually either 1) unconvinced that what they did was a smart move or 2) lying about their motivation or where they went. You don't give a weak reason and then a stronger one. Hell, non-guilty people don't give the weak reason OR the strong one. They just say, "Hey, what's up?" and if asked, "Yeah, I went to the store." and if asked, "I wanted some gum."

I hope I'm being clearer than I think I am.

FOS: Jersey

Since the town seems so dead set on keeping Gamma around tonight, I will

unvote Gamma

But I still do not see how his kill can be "proven".

This seems like you thought you could get momentum on a Gamma lynch, and once it became apparent there was none you washed your hands of it. If you thought he was scum, you should have kept your vote on him regardless of what the rest of the town thinks, unless you had someone else you found more suspicious.

We had a big spurt of activity for a few days (Imagine! Activity in this game! It seems so long ago) where Wall-E went into epic douche mode.

I have another mode?

Wall-E, what makes you think Nekka is scummier than corporate?

Guts.

Umm...I don't exactly feel comfortable with making life or death decisions based solely on guts. I actually prefer some logic go behind things. If that is truly your answer Wall-E, I have to say the band might be better without you. I don't want to bring you to L-1 until we hear from Nekka, so I will refrain for now.

OK Wall-E, after rereading your posts on there own, I have decided to take you up on a challenge you posted earlier (Post 130):

So, we are not killing Gamma. Everyone get your votes onto ANYONE else. Yes, even me. Unlike Gamma I won't claim until L-1, so be fearless and attack!

I had unvoted Gamma way back there. I'm going to give you a chance to make your claim.

VOTE: WALL-E

Nekka didn't post in between those posts. Before the Guts post, the thread had been very active, and many of us were putting votes on Wall-E, and it looked like the bandwagon was about to run him over. In between, the thread slowed a little bit as we all waited with baited breath for Nekka, and a couple of people started a small bandwagon on him. It seemed like jersey thought they were so close to a lynch on Wall-E, and he didn't want the momentum to slip away, so he tried to push it over the edge.

I'm breaking up the wall of text, I'll finish soon.

This is my favorite part of this post. I really hope you aren't scum, zach, because right now I am taking away most of your scummy points and giving you town points.

I still prefer Nekka to jersey, for all the reasons I've stated, but this is an excellent case and I will not find fault with anyone joining a jersey wagon for a while.

[zachattack]

This sounds like you're blaming jersey for Gamma's claim somehow. Is that right? Please clarify.

Nope. On Page 2 Gamma and Jersey were most people's first suspicions, Gamma for his fourth vote on Atlas, jersey for suggesting that you putting the second vote on Atlas was scummy. When Gamma claimed vig, all the attention went to him, and then you when you said 'Yay Vig!' and jersey took the opportunity to disappear.