Mafia 86 - mafia.gif - Game Over!

[LlamaFluff]

Ok given how many votes I have and how many people seem to be showing intention of voting me, im going to claim now to try and get this game back on track.

I am the

psychologist

. Every night I can talk to one person (not literally message but flavor summary) and if they are a serial killer, they will become pro-town.

Night one Cybele talked to EA (which I will get into more later), who was not the SK

Night two Cybele talked to TSN (hascow) who obviously was not the SK.

Night three my read put me between SL and Sierra for my choice. I ended up checking SL, who again was not the SK.

So basically I know that EA is not the SK, and neither is SL. If I do target the SK during the night, they become vanilla town, and their night kill does not go through.

So, this is why I reacted the way I did when EA claimed. When he claimed, I knew that he was not the SK, but it would of been in my favor for a vig to counterclaim him, or a SK to take the gamble of "I can get the vig lynched and hopefully leave town in lylo so I wont be killed tomorrow".

If EA got countered by someone, the possibilities would be he is either the vig or scum. If he got countered, Jebus watches the player who countered, and EA gets lynched. In the situation where EA flips vig, I would target the counter claimer, hoping they were the SK trying to play into a scenario where town lynching them loses town the game due to number of Greeks alive. If EA flipped town I would take a shot at Jahudo or Sierra who I think one of which has to be the SK.

It was in my massive favor to have EA get countered if he was lying, since it guarenteed a scum lynch, and maybe gave us confirmed town in one of the SK turned town or me. One of us getting NKed from that point would of confirmed us both town.

Where my notes stand right now are as follows

Greek - Fonz, Farside, one of SL/Jahudo/SG. More likely SG then the other two.

Jap - EA or BA. This one is just giving me some problems. BA looks Jap, but the reaction over the whole Jebus fakeclaim makes me think he is town. EA makes some sense, but this one is just giving me a hard time

SK - Jahudo, Sierra. No one else really is showing up to me as SK. Both of these players just have a way of posting that is setting off bells, but I cant get a good grasp on why. When I try to fit them to a scumgroup I have some problems even though it does work, so they are my SK suspects.

Town - Massive (feel free to yell at me for this one), if not the SK, Sierra. Massive just feels town to me, especially with the piece of shit wagon that started on him early today. That made me eliminate him from the Greek pool 100%, especially given that quite a few of his pushers are likely Greek. Sierra seems townish to me, but for some reason I just get a nagging feeling about her, but she is leaning the SK to me.

Moving on to places where I breadcrumbed (even though it should be apparent when I gave up with the "get the non-SK countered" plan).

I still dont believe two vigs. As far as I am concerned though, EA is not going to be lynched unless someone counters him.

-Knowing there is an SK. I really doubt (and would be pissed) if my whole role is a red herring. Also this is me forshadowing the fact that I am not going to let EA get lynched since no one claiming was leading me to belive he was the vig. If it came down to it I would of claimed to save the vig today.

[4) I dont want what I am thinking to be a wash here, and if EA is the vig what I am working on will take much longer to actually figure out, and possibly cause quite a bit of confusion. There is a good reason for me to want to know if EA is lying about being the vig,

since there are a few people who are obviously not the SK already.

It being another 1 faction, eliminating it would prevent lylo

-Starting the claim that I know some people are not the SK. Reading the game there is really no clear way to ever of figure out who is the SK and who isnt, which is why they are one of my least favorite roles to hunt for.

I have a bit of a personal priority to be hunting the SK, and have a really good reason for getting a counter to EA. Given that again a SK lynch (especially non-EA one) would not only present a WIFOM between jebus-EA as the modified doctor and only two anti-town threats, but also prevent one anti-town kill and eliminate any chance at the game ending.

-Basically claiming I am a psychologist here. It is my priority to be hunting the SK because that is all my role is there for. Also I emphisized the boon of getting a non-EA SK lynched (which I would settle for in this situation). At this point I knew that EA was not the SK so made a point to emphisize a NON-ea SK, since the SK is not EA.

I do have a priority, that is all about that. The modified doctor is the reason I would prefer a Jap/SK lynch. We have EA who is our vig and Jebus who is our watcher. Jebus watches EA at nights, and scum can not kill him. If we eliminate one entire anti-town faction, that increases the likelyhood of only having Jebus be NKed, while still leaving the chance of EA getting double killed, and two scum caught. Whoever Jebus watches cant die before Jebus, modified doctor.

-By this point I am trying to get Fonz to STOP PUSHING why I am pretty interested in the SK. I also again am calling EA basically a confirmed vig at this point since I know he is due to no one countering him. Me claiming will likely distract the SK, and we still will have jap/greek trying to figure out who is better to kill out of jebus/me/ea with the mod-doctor.

EA is not going to be the SK, doesnt fit. I am thinking vig, small chance other scum. SK really doesnt fit the kill pattern though. Again you trying to increase the chance of our vig dying is scummy.

-EA is not SK, yadda yadda yadda. I even acknowlage that he could be other scum to try and prove a point its

specifically

SK that I know he isnt.

My notes basically just have you two as options at this point. EA doesnt fit and SL doesnt fit for that part of the puzzle. I have strong greek or a town read on everyone else (except BA who I just am clueless on).

I know its pretty conveluted in the process that I went through, but if someone counterclaimed right there it would of ment a scum lynch, no questions asked. If fact it still would if someone counters EA, would make my job a bit easier.

-This is me starting to describe my notes as only Jahudo/Sierra as SK. Also this is my first claim of my N3 target being SL, who I previously had just been ignoring for the most part over the whole claim thing. Also this is me reitterating the helpfulness of someone counterclaiming EA, for not only meaning a scum lynch, but still giving me that shot at getting an extra townie while losing an SK.

tl;dr

I am the psycologist

N1 target - EA
N2 target - TSN (became hascow)
N3 target - SL

breadcrumbs above.

[ShadowGirl]

In light of the recent claim,

Unvote

Vote: BA

For the massive amounts of oppurtunistic voting and active lurking.

I really can't make up my mind about massive and his hypocrisy about my active lurking. :/

[LlamaFluff]

Oh yeah, Jebus should be in the town category too.

[The Fonz]

@Fonz: 'Whiny'? I would consider that someone being pissed, but to each to their own opinion.

Awww, woe is me, those nasty boys are cwiticising lil' ol' me...

Let me ask you something.

When you played in that game with SSK. Did you criticise his play? Did you tell him he was hurting the town, or try to get him lynched?

If you did, then objecting to how I'm treating you here is ridiculously hypocritical.

If you didn't, then you have only yourself to blame for losing that game.

As for being pissed:

YOUR HORRIFIC ACTIVE LURKING REALLY PISSES ME OFF.

unvote, vote: Shadowgirl

Incidentally, the SK should probably claim. They have a better chance of winning as town, if LF is truthful, than as SK. I'd like everyone to agree that we will lynch anyone claiming SK if they don't do it immediately.

LF: Do you really think it's a good idea to do something obviously scummy, that relies on scum being incredibly stupid? Of course I'm going to push when people make assertions they can't logically back up from what's in thread. It's called scumhunting.

[ShadowGirl]

Unfortuntately (or fortunately) I haven't played with you before so I don't know whether you are normally this agressive or patronizing, but it is a good sign of scum trying to cause a townie to break down. (Sure, go ahead - say what you want.)

That was a valid question about being whiny. Anyway, by acting this way YOU are doing a disservice to town as well. Do you honestly think that angering me to such a point that I do not want to post is helping town? Really?

About SSK: Yes to the first, sorta yes to the second. It was due to the mechanics that made that harder.

Back to the current game...

Anyway, about my 'horrible' active lurking - can I motion you to the last post of the previous page? Can I point out that massive has been doing just as bad as me, or even BA?

[springlullaby]

Hi, happy new year everybody.

I believe Llama's claim, it kinda fits DeadRikimaru I think. Though EA can't be jap because of N2 claimed kill. Unless EA claimed kills that aren't his own, which makes no sense. Another alternative is Llama greek with EA. But that's too big a machination I think. Which makes EA probably vig.
Here thought I have to raise the possibility of a compulsive killer with shifting alignment as seen in Darkstalkers mafia. I just don't like the ooba kill.

I don't like massive.

You know, if BA *is* the last Japanese scum, we will have seen quite the number of self-serving scummy votes leading up to his lynch.

The above is queer. Note the emphasis on *is*, it makes no sense. What is implied here is that greek would be more interested in lynching jap. In itself that is a reasoning I can see, only this reasoning is independent of whether BA turns up Jap or not, because presumably greek can't know who's jap or not, unless in case of mafiacop knowledge of which would be suspicious.

I'm not explaining this very well but I hope you get my point: there is something that doesn't fit in massive's reasoning. And my guess is that it is a scumslip and that massive is prolly greek himself and that he is distancing from an action that could be perceived as greek hence the faulty reasoning.

Also, I think it makes little difference lynching jap or greek right now as both present its advantage. Lynching jap get rid of a scumgroup, lynching greek eliminate possibility of overnight scumwin. SK should claim and win with the town.

I'm open to lynch BA or massive.

[Jahudo]

Yes, SK should claim. I'm not him though.

Another alternative is Llama greek with EA. But that's too big a machination I think. Which makes EA probably vig.

Or EA could be greek without Llama being greek, which I'd believe now more than vig given Llama's claim.

The above is queer. Note the emphasis on *is*, it makes no sense. What is implied here is that greek would be more interested in lynching jap. In itself that is a reasoning I can see, only this reasoning is independent of whether BA turns up Jap or not, because presumably greek can't know who's jap or not, unless in case of mafiacop knowledge of which would be suspicious.

It looks like WIFOM to me, but I can see the town reasoning.

[The Fonz]

Unfortuntately (or fortunately) I haven't played with you before so I don't know whether you are normally this agressive or patronizing, but it is a good sign of scum trying to cause a townie to break down. (Sure, go ahead - say what you want.)

Sure. That's complete crap, however you phrase it. Town players should be aggressive (I see passivity as something of a scumtell, though obviously it can be ). I haven't patronised you AT ALL. All I'm doing is attacking you for scummy/antitown behaviour, as town players should in every single game. You've responded by basically making this personal,
as if it's somehow rude to criticise the way you're playing. You were pulling the 'rereading, will post soon' trick which, if you've played with MafiaSSK before, you know is the tool he uses to avoid contributing.

It is not patronising to suggest that it takes half an hour at most, not three days, to read three pages. Again, I read the first forty pages in about two hours. The vast majority of your posts also tend to be what someone (I can't remember who, exactly) termed information instead of analysis. You've done very little in terms of looking for scum, building cases, evaluating other players.

All these things look like scum trying to get away with not contributing, and are therefore valid things to attack.

Also, it's not like I'm alone:

If somehow ShadowGirl does NOT get lynched for her play in this game, we will be able to point back to it as an example of "how to lurk in Mafia games when you're Mafia without getting caught." Because man is she writing the book on it.

Why do you try to guilt-trip me, whilst ignoring the fact that 'Shadowgirl is active lurking' is not exactly something I'm alone in thinking?

If you genuinely had the town's interests at heart, you wouldn't threaten me with doing something that hurts the town if you're part of it.

That was a valid question about being whiny. Anyway, by acting this way YOU are doing a disservice to town as well. Do you honestly think that angering me to such a point that I do not want to post is helping town? Really?

However angry I am making you, i can promise you you're making me threefold. See the above: you wouldn't be making this threat if you were town, and genuinely trying to fulfil your win condition.

About SSK: Yes to the first, sorta yes to the second. It was due to the mechanics that made that harder.

So, seriously, can you not understand my desire to force lurkers and active lurkers to contribute?

Back to the current game...

Anyway, about my 'horrible' active lurking - can I motion you to the last post of the previous page? Can I point out that massive has been doing just as bad as me, or even BA?

You can, but it would be untrue. They've been nowhere near as bad. Massive has been giving opinions and making arguments (and, fwiw, I have him just below you on my scumdar).

As for the last post of the previous page, I have two points:

1) That post itself is the result of pressuring you to contribute
2) It's actually really quite scummy. You make a load of minor points which you don't follow up on, then jump on the biggest wagon, with another player that everyone suspects as no2.

[farside22]

I just can't believe EA isn't the SK. God help me.
Llama do you know for sure if you are blocked by someone? I ask only because I just can't believe someone town killed CKD for such poor reasoning so forgive me question.

[LlamaFluff]

I just can't believe EA isn't the SK. God help me.
Llama do you know for sure if you are blocked by someone? I ask only because I just can't believe someone town killed CKD for such poor reasoning so forgive me question.

I sumbitted SL as my target last night and I just got a response basically boiling down to "okay". I will try to check though with claus but I think that im more along the lines of doctor then cop in the RB category. Also rereading TSN/hascow to see if I can pick up on any RB breadcrumbs.

Anyways. I am rereading a few others right now, starting to lean to adding my vote to the SG wagon. A lot of my case on farside is on connections (some not proven) and it seems like no one really likes my fonz case. Jahudo is bugging me again though in seeming insistant on a EA lynch.

@Fonz - Probably shouldnt of gone about my role the way I did, always tend to play bad as a PR though for some reason. I saw a possible gambit that I thought someone might take if they were desprate enough SK or Jap (BA, SG came to mind specifically) and went for it, didnt work.

[LlamaFluff]

I just can't believe EA isn't the SK. God help me.
Llama do you know for sure if you are blocked by someone? I ask only because I just can't believe someone town killed CKD for such poor reasoning so forgive me question.

I sumbitted SL as my target last night and I just got a response basically boiling down to "okay". I will try to check though with claus but I think that im more along the lines of doctor then cop in the RB category. Also rereading TSN/hascow to see if I can pick up on any RB breadcrumbs.

Skim of TSN makes me think he blocked BA N1, never even really paid attention to Cybele so I think even if I dont receive a "positive non-sk" result I dont see any way I was blocked. I think hascow blocked SG N3 so SL is pretty much in the clear too for being the SK to me.

I still think SK is one of Jahudo/Sierra

[Sierra]

I am believing Llama's claim. I don't see mafia faking psychologist, because if he accidentally clear the SK, there's a good chance the SK will kill him the next night. There is a small chance Llama is the SK himself, but if we get a SK claim today we won't have to worry about that.

On that note: I am not the SK.

I think the earlier pressure on SG to get her to post was well-deserved and it proved effective. I don't see why The Fonz decided to vote her after her post and still has it out for her, when there is also someone called BlakAdder around. I would like BA to tell us whether he is the SK or not.

[The Fonz]

Because BlakAdder is a fairly long way down on my 'people to lynch' list? Since if LF is truthful, he is not the SK, I can't see him being Greek, that really narrows the window of possibility for him to be scum at all. Basically, he has to be Jap or town in my eyes.

Don't know why you're calling for an SK claim from BA specifically, btw, since he's almost certainly not.

Re: Llama's claim- you're right that it's not likely a mafia claim. It does make sense as an SK claim, actually- but he's still not a priority for today.

[Claus]

Mod's Hint of the day:

Be kind to animals.

Vote Count!

Blak Adder 3 - Farside, Springlulaby, ShadowGirl
Llama Fluff 2 - Jebus, massive
The Fonz 1 - Llama Fluff
Massive 1 - EA
ShadowGirl 1 - The Fonz

Not Voting: Jahudo, BA, Sierra

With 11 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

=========

I'm back, and I'm sending a prod to all players in the Playerlist. If you have been active recently, just disregard it, please.

EDIT: Also, I'm deadlining the day for two weeks from now -

Jan, 19th, 00:01 GMT.

It should be plenty of time for you to get to a lynch, given the recent discussion.

[Jahudo]

The following people have responded since Llama's claim saying/implying they aren't SK:
-The Fonz
-springlullaby
-Jahudo
-farside
-Sierra

ShadowGirl only noticed the claim by unvoting Llama but she did not say if this clears Llama in her eyes, or if she is SK or if she wants SK to claim.

So, ShadowGirl, BA, Jebus, massive, and EA: What do you think of Llama's claim? Are you the SK or do you think the SK should claim now?

[LlamaFluff]

unvote, Vote ShadowGirl

Reading the thread again I think she actually could even be the last Jap mafia, even if you ignore a lot of the blanket scummy behavior that she has done for the most part of this game.

I came to the possible Jap conclusion given a lot of her interactions with Stef, who on multiple occasions was defended either outright, deflected away from or had implied guilt of.

First was the early stage comment of

CKD, I think you're taking Stef's vote too seriously. :/

which came shortly after Stef voted CKD for "asking questions". Once it started catching flak SG never commented on this quote again.

I don't think anything should be excused even if he is a new player. We can take into account that he is one, but that doesn't mean we should overlook scumtells.

@Stef: But I do think you should get a bit thicker skin, because you will encounter people who will not be quite so courteous. People will insult you, and you just have to deal with it.

This again is in relation to Stef. Here SG is trying to play both sides by trying to get people to let him off the hook slightly by playing the newbie card for him, while at the same time agreeing with the tells he has performed. There also is what seems to be a "suck it up" coaching line to Stef here. At this point in the game SG has a random out on Sera for being lurky. With the admission that Stef is playing scummy here (and even Tajos vanilla claim), I would assume the vote would be in a useful place.

Anyway, I'm taking Tajo's 'vanilla claim' and Seraphim not wanting to participate in random voting as null tells, as is Stef's joking statement of wanting to be lynched or a very weak scumtell.

Still, I find Tajo defending him rather odd and slightly scummy.

This one is just red flags all over the place. First, Tajo and Seras actions are null tells, which is amazingly hard to believe when you read this game. I personally was surprized Tajo lasted as long as he did. Stef is regarded as a weak scumtell though. Now at this point SG had just unvoted in the same post and does have Stef at scum, weak it may be but at scum. There is no vote for Stef though. It continues as calling Tajo scum for defending Stef. Now, player A defending player B is not scummy if you do not know either alignment. Player A having defendED player B who flipped scum is scummy though, and is reason to take a closer look at player A. Now - SG is using Tajo as A and Stef as B. Stef is being used to build up suspicion on Tajo, but neither player has flipped, so SG is essentially using unknown alignment (which she only has as slightly scummy) to call another unknown alignment scummy. This just seems like SG knew that Stef was scum and tried to use that to further other lynches before Stef was actually revealed.

Vote: Black Adder

I've been getting minor scum vibes ever since this snippet:

So, vote: populartajo. Since your scumminess relies on the assumption that you and tajo are partners, you'll be partially cleared if tajo flips town.

Hn, I think the quick hammer is a null tell at this point.

Now this is interesting. Both BA and SG did similar things D1, just SG did it a bit less blatantly then BA did. They both made a connection between tajo-stef that hinged partially on the other being scum. BA said that tajo town leans stef town, SG used stef scum so tajo scum. SG just jumps on BA though, and then lurks for most of the rest of the day.

Starting to get a bit worn out though, more tomorrow probably.

[Jebus]

His claim is an unlikely scum claim, though I don't think it clears him.

For purposes of having an 'extra vig', if you will, I think the SK should remain hidden, and claim later on. Keep in mind that with all the mafia left, the SK would have to go after mafia if he/she hopes to have a chance. But yes, the SK should claim later on, maybe Day 5 or 6.

And I've already claimed, I am not the SK.


And as for my vote,

Unvote
Vote: SG

Basically the above post. And although her interactions with Stef imply Yakuza, I actually think that she'd be Greek. Why? 'Cause I've been there before. Defending and teaming is done by scum, but usually with a pro-town as the 'victim'. Though remember, Yakuza don't know who the Greeks are.

[The Fonz]

Meh. Ignore the bit about BA not being the SK. I thought EA, BA and SL were LF's investigations, and didn't get time to check properly before I had to go out. Apologies.

[BlakAdder]

Sorry, I'm back. Lost track of everything when the site went down.
I am not the SK.
At first, the idea of having the SK claim seem tempting. But, a few things first:
1. Llama: You said that the SK becomes pro-town if you target him. Is this exactly what it says in your Role PM? Does he become a vanilla townie or does he keep his NK?
2. If he does not keep his NK, then I kind of like Jebus's idea of the SK acting as a vig. If he keeps his NK, he should probably go ahead and claim so we can ensure that he doesn't "change his mind" later.
3. Whether he keeps his NK or not, there's one thing bugging me. If he does claim, the Mafia could easily kill him tonight to prevent us from earning another player. If the SK claims, then a Doc (if there is one), should protect him tonight, but not claim.

[The Fonz]

If he does claim, the Mafia could easily kill him tonight to prevent us from earning another player. If the SK claims, then a Doc (if there is one), should protect him tonight, but not claim.

I'd imagine the SK loses his kill. In which case, why should the mafia target him?

Did you miss that we lynched our doctor?

[BlakAdder]

There's no rule that says that there's only one of each power role. The mafia could still kill him, as that would still be one more player working against them.

[Jahudo]

Does he become a vanilla townie or does he keep his NK?

He said this earlier:

If I do target the SK during the night, they become vanilla town, and their night kill does not go through.

If he does claim, the Mafia could easily kill him tonight to prevent us from earning another player. If the SK claims, then a Doc (if there is one), should protect him tonight, but not claim.

But if he doesn't claim then Llama could die tonight and the SK would remain scum until we figure out how to kill him. It's too risky.

The SK kill is unpredictable the way it stands and if we don't eliminate a killing faction today we might not have any more chances or only one more chance. This way we can guarantee only 3 kills but hopefully 2 at night.

Massive and SG need to respond.

[The Fonz]

Also, if actions are resolved simultaneously, he will be killed at the exact same moment he becomes town, so will have the town win condition.

[ShadowGirl]

Only post that you'll get from me today (still on vacation).

We could probably go back and forth for another page or so about this. So here's my summary of what I have to say:

I believe we were both in the wrong (more so me) : No, I don't advocate my play as good (which I've said before) but I think perhaps you went about it a little too far (or perhaps it just seemed that way at the time.) I can and sometimes do take things personally, but I understand wanting to get players active (as this game did stall somewhere in the beginning of day three and throughout it.) Now that I've some time to relax and haven't been near a computer for awhile, I'm no longer in some state of maniacal rage.

However angry I am making you, i can promise you you're making me threefold. See the above: you wouldn't be making this threat if you were town, and genuinely trying to fulfil your win condition.

As I've said how I can take things personally, I have my own twist of the whole 'it's a game' thing : I'll do someting detrimental to town just to spite someone. (Not that I ever have previously, but I did have that mentality when all of... that happened.)

@About massive's comment (I addressed it with the following)

@Massive: If you think I'm scum then vote me, that's all there is to it.

Which while still brash, is to the point.

1) That post itself is the result of pressuring you to contribute
2) It's actually really quite scummy. You make a load of minor points which you don't follow up on, then jump on the biggest wagon, with another player that everyone suspects as no2.

1)Yes, perhaps so - but the objective is to get me to post, isn't it?
2)And if I voted BA? What would you say then? Anyway, the vote was largely based on Cybele's inactivity at the beginning and me possibly just materializing connections out of thin air (it's some of paranoia I instill). BA was the vote I should have made, but now that's it there, I'm perfectly happy with it.

@LF's claim: Considering how many kills there are, it's likely there is a SK (as opposed to a second vig) and it seems logical enough to have a psychologist. And for the record, I'm not the SK.

---

Your first two points: Basically that I was protecting Stef and trying to get attention off him? Anyway about the second quote (since I don't see the big deal about the first one) : at the time he was taking tings very personally - why shouldn't I tell him that the way he was going about it was not the right way? I am more leanient on newbies, but as I said that doesn't entirely excuse their behaviour. Not much else I can say on those points - you can view as such a way. However, do you think at such an early stage I would have risked my neck for him?

This one is just red flags all over the place. First, Tajo and Seras actions are null tells, which is amazingly hard to believe when you read this game. I personally was surprized Tajo lasted as long as he did. Stef is regarded as a weak scumtell though. Now at this point SG had just unvoted in the same post and does have Stef at scum, weak it may be but at scum. There is no vote for Stef though. It continues as calling Tajo scum for defending Stef. Now, player A defending player B is not scummy if you do not know either alignment. Player A having defendED player B who flipped scum is scummy though, and is reason to take a closer look at player A. Now - SG is using Tajo as A and Stef as B. Stef is being used to build up suspicion on Tajo, but neither player has flipped, so SG is essentially using unknown alignment (which she only has as slightly scummy) to call another unknown alignment scummy. This just seems like SG knew that Stef was scum and tried to use that to further other lynches before Stef was actually revealed.

I was playing with Tajo in another game, and his playstyle was very much the same so I didn't really see him as being overly scummy. So, what are you getting at with me saying they were null tells? One of those people did flip town, you know. You're exaggerating my post - nowhere do I deem him scum for defending scum. I say he is 'slightly' scummy. Neither do I say Stef is scum either, but merely exhibited a weak scumtell. So, all in all : you have majorly exaggerated what I said.

Now this is interesting. Both BA and SG did similar things D1, just SG did it a bit less blatantly then BA did. They both made a connection between tajo-stef that hinged partially on the other being scum. BA said that tajo town leans stef town, SG used stef scum so tajo scum. SG just jumps on BA though, and then lurks for most of the rest of the day.

Where have I explicitely said that if one flipped scum that it meant the other was as well?

[Sierra]

I am not the SK.

Vote BlakAdder

, because he's definitely not town either. My bet is on BA being Jap mafia, because of his interactions with Stef and Tajo on day 1.

I know there are people who believe believe BA is really a vanilla townie because he reacted 'genuinely' to Jebus's gambit, but that's a terrible argument. As pointed out before, if BA didn't kill GW himself, then it would've been easy to figure out Jebus was lying. A vanilla townie and a mafia would react in exactly the same way if they knew Jebus was lying.