Mini 703 - A Roccisi Autumn - Over

[Korts]

That is an awesome concept.

[Kison]

Ectomancer: You say you rate an insanepenguin lynch higher than Tubby216. What about Rage, who you seemed adamant about not long ago?

IP dismissed out of hand that thought that he could be scum that hammered his scum buddy. Why? Never heard of bussing?

...Speaking of which, insanepenguin, you've still yet to answer my question about this. Why did you vote for Rage, who sealed darkdude's fate, if you also were under the belief that voting darkdude was a means of clearing someone?

Also, it appears Puta Puta might not have been as batshit crazy as we all thought:

Ecto, what is your opinion of ThAdmiral?

ThAdmiral, what is your opinion of Ecto?

gorckat, what is your opinion of me and Ecto?

One is a lie,
Another a cover,

And in only one is the truth not farther.

To find this one you must be sharp,
If you want it, you must decipher.

[TDC]

Vote Count

tubby216 (3): Kison, Korts, insanepenguin02
insanepenguin02 (2): Rage, tubby216
Kison (1): ThAdmiral

Not voting (3): afatchic, Ectomancer, Adel

[insanepenguin02]

...Speaking of which, insanepenguin, you've still yet to answer my question about this. Why did you vote for Rage, who sealed darkdude's fate, if you also were under the belief that voting darkdude was a means of clearing someone?

Oh sorry, Kison. From what I remember, I sealed dd's fate actually. Maybe I'm thickheaded but I don't fully understand your question. I explained why I voted for Rage before.

[insanepenguin02]

By the way, at the bottom of each page in a thread, above the New Topic and Post Reply buttons, there's this little bar that says:

"Display posts from previous: 'All Posts' by 'All users' 'Oldest/Newest First' GO"

You can view what only one player has written in a thread that way, and it's a much easier way of finding a specific post. You can also go to the end of any page's URL and type in the post that you're looking for after the 'start=' part.

THANK YOU!!!! This will prove extremely helpful!

[insanepenguin02]

And last thing for tonight:

1) Ecto - I will get to your questions over the weekend when I have more time.

2) Rage - I will get to your claim over the weekend as well.

3) Everyone - Thanks for the advice, info, questions, etc. as I am seeing that I have a lot of work in fully understanding and becoming better at this game.

[Kison]

I am referring to this, in case you don't recall:

And me with darkdude? Apart from me not being scum in the first place, why would I have voted for dd if I was aligned with him? Please explain before you start to sling "what-ifs".

You voted for Rage earlier. Why would Rage have contradicted darkdude's claim and voted for him if he was aligned with him? Is it your belief that you 'cannot' be scum with darkdude simply because you voted for him?

[insanepenguin02]

I am referring to this, in case you don't recall:

And me with darkdude? Apart from me not being scum in the first place, why would I have voted for dd if I was aligned with him? Please explain before you start to sling "what-ifs".

You voted for Rage earlier. Why would Rage have contradicted darkdude's claim and voted for him if he was aligned with him? Is it your belief that you 'cannot' be scum with darkdude simply because you voted for him?

Thanks, Kison.

1) Is Rage is mafia, then he could have been throwing us off, throwing a scum buddy under the bus, and voted for dd despite dd's false claim. If Rage is town, he read through dd's claim, went with his case against dd, and stuck to his read, casting the vote for dd.

2) As I answered before, the topic of bussing has been clarified for me. Of course a mafia member could and probably does vote for another mafia member at times. Therefore, it is NOT my belief that you cannot be scum buddies and vote for each other.

[afatchic]

I haven't done much of a reread yet. i replaced into multiple games near the same time because i usually have sympathy for games needing replacements since i hate games i play in when people bail and no one is willing to replace. but now i have finally caught up in the others, so this one is next. but can someone explain to me why we are all voting a claimed tracker?

This is actually a good question.

Wouldn't it be awesome if someone voting for him took the time to write out a detailed explanation for why they are still voting for him?

well that was kinda what i was hoping for...

[afatchic]

And me with darkdude? Apart from me not being scum in the first place, why would I have voted for dd if I was aligned with him? Please explain before you start to sling "what-ifs".

So you are saying there is no way that you could have been aligned with DD because you voted for him, yet you just voted Rage, who pretty much counterclaimed and forced the DD lynch? please explain.

[afatchic]

Sorry, but i meant to post this sooner, but ill be V/La until monday. i should be able to finish catching up though by then, so expect content on monday. sorry about it taking so long, but it came the same time as our Christmas vacation, so i have had limited access to the site.

since this post he has made 21 (count them!) posts in other games, and spread out on each calender day.

wtf?

unvote, vote:afatchic

post or perish.

Sorry, been extremely sick so the last thing i wanted to do was read 30 pages. you can see that the other posts are fairly small, and didn't require reading much to respond to. once caught up i try to stay active...

[afatchic]

Yay! I'm finally finished reading! anyways, ill give some brief thoughts for everyone to play with tomorrow until i get back on.

First- i would be fine with either a tubby of IP lynch today, as i think we will find one of the scum between the two of them. I didn't really like IP's evaluation post of everyone, he kept a lot of people in the middle, which is a common scum tactic to allow you to hop wagons easily without contradiction. i believe that after 28+ pages, you should already have fairly decent ideas about everyone.

Ectomancer- Pretty sure he is Town. He had about 5 or so posts i didn't really like prior to the start of day 2. his play during day 2 pushing DD really gives him townie points. Then the investigation report from thAdmiral, which i believe is correct, helps to clear him as well. so this boils down to a town read on Ecto.

ThAdmiral- Giving that report, and giving it right (well i think right) really gives him some townie points. Knowing the cop was dead, and he had the only report, he could have used that many different ways, but using it here and giving a cleared townie really gives some townie points to me. there really hasn't been much from his play that i have disliked at all, so right now im thinking townie. however this is one of the few that could change, but i just don't see why Scum-ThAd would give a cop report like that. however there are a few things i want to look into.

Adel- BoW may have been the scummiest play i have ever read through. he def. ranks up in the top 3 or 5. and reading through i was astounded he wasn't lynched a few pages into day 1. however if you look at it assuming he is town, i believe there is a very logical explanation, which i expect to hear from Adel later in the game. If i don't hear the explanation i am waiting for, i may be inclined to vote him based on how badly BoW played, but right now i think he is a townie.

Kison- I don't have much of a read on him at the moment, however what little bit i do have is leaning pro-town.

Korts- I had a general Town gut feeling as i was reading through about him, however right now i really don't have much to support a Town-Korts or Scum-korts ATM, other than pushing the DD wagon early on.

Rage- So you recieved a PM saying "No Results" at the end of each night, or just never recieved a PM with any night results in them? Either way getting No Result would seem to imply that you was RoleBlocked, or maybe jailed. But either way i don't see how you would counterclaim DD, when you had no results to back it up with. i highly doubt No Results means they visited no one.

@Anyone- what seems to be the gain from not giving the Amn. cop results at the start of days? having the results gives no bearing on your actual role, and yet still clears a person most likely, so why would anyone wait to give results?

[Adel]

@Anyone- what seems to be the gain from not giving the Amn. cop results at the start of days? having the results gives no bearing on your actual role, and yet still clears a person most likely, so why would anyone wait to give results?

If you know the alignment of someone, but everyone else doesn't, then you have an informational advantage. Regardless of if you are town or if you are scum, having that information kept secret gives you a large edge. ThAdmiral made a good play by holding onto that information for as long as he did. Imagine if the day had gone differently, and the choice of the day's lynch was down to Ecto and one other person, and both wagons were about even and each wagon was full of very vocal proponents. If that had happened, and ThAdmiral waited until that point to reveal that he had that information, Ecto would be cleared, and at least one scum player would be outed, possibly winning the game for the town. If I had that information, that is probably how I would've steered the day's events, hoping for that outcome.

[Korts]

Adel- BoW may have been the scummiest play i have ever read through. he def. ranks up in the top 3 or 5. and reading through i was astounded he wasn't lynched a few pages into day 1. however if you look at it assuming he is town, i believe there is a very logical explanation, which i expect to hear from Adel later in the game. If i don't hear the explanation i am waiting for, i may be inclined to vote him based on how badly BoW played, but right now i think he is a townie.

This paragraph seems particularly wishy-washy, even for you, afatchic. You first state that Adel's predecessor is definitely scummy, then you assume he's town, then you demand an explanation from Adel; and finally you conclude that right now she's probably a townie. I sense a connection; such uncertainty makes me think of a partnership where you can't decide whether to bus, distance or defend.

[insanepenguin02]

And me with darkdude? Apart from me not being scum in the first place, why would I have voted for dd if I was aligned with him? Please explain before you start to sling "what-ifs".

So you are saying there is no way that you could have been aligned with DD because you voted for him, yet you just voted Rage, who pretty much counterclaimed and forced the DD lynch? please explain.

Haven't I answered this already?

It's almost sounding here that you are fishing, IMO. Since I have answered both of these questions before, I will not spend time re-answering here.

[insanepenguin02]

Adel- BoW may have been the scummiest play i have ever read through. he def. ranks up in the top 3 or 5. and reading through i was astounded he wasn't lynched a few pages into day 1. however if you look at it assuming he is town, i believe there is a very logical explanation, which i expect to hear from Adel later in the game. If i don't hear the explanation i am waiting for, i may be inclined to vote him based on how badly BoW played, but right now i think he is a townie.

This paragraph seems particularly wishy-washy,

even for you, afatchic. You first state that Adel's predecessor is definitely scummy, then you assume he's town, then you demand an explanation from Adel; and finally you conclude that right now she's probably a townie. I sense a connection; such uncertainty makes me think of a partnership where you can't decide whether to bus, distance or defend.

QFT

[Rage]

First- i would be fine with either a tubby of IP lynch today, as i think we will find one of the scum between the two of them. I didn't really like IP's evaluation post of everyone, he kept a lot of people in the middle, which is a common scum tactic to allow you to hop wagons easily without contradiction. i believe that after 28+ pages, you should already have fairly decent ideas about everyone.

Why are you fine with a Tubby lynch?

Rage- So you recieved a PM saying "No Results" at the end of each night, or just never recieved a PM with any night results in them? Either way getting No Result would seem to imply that you was RoleBlocked, or maybe jailed. But either way i don't see how you would counterclaim DD, when you had no results to back it up with. i highly doubt No Results means they visited no one.

What makes you think that I've been roleblocked every night? What do you think of my Tracker claim?

I counterclaimed DD because he claimed to have done something on N0. I didn't think I was roleblocked two nights in a row (at that time I had two investigations) or even for the first night, so I was certain that he was fakeclaiming. I know you think there's a possibility of a roleblocker, but if you're a Tracker with an investigation from the beginning of the game and someone claims something that doesn't match up with what you've got, wouldn't that mean that they're lying? Darkdude said it himself in Post #145, why would Town lie?

[afatchic]

What makes you think that I've been roleblocked every night? What do you think of my Tracker claim?

I counterclaimed DD because he claimed to have done something on N0. I didn't think I was roleblocked two nights in a row (at that time I had two investigations) or even for the first night, so I was certain that he was fakeclaiming.

Im believing it less as less. so how else do you explain the you never recieved a result for your investigations. and yes i would believe if you had been RB'd every night. Normally, if you "track" someone you will either get a Pm back saying they visited ___ or they didn't visit anyone. by getting no result would imply something happened to you at night(roleblocked, jailed), which is why you didn't get your result. So you countering a Claimed Watcher on false information seems really suspicious to me.

I know you think there's a possibility of a roleblocker, but if you're a Tracker with an investigation from the beginning of the game and someone claims something that doesn't match up with what you've got, wouldn't that mean that they're lying? Darkdude said it himself in Post #145, why would Town lie?

But you just said you didn't have a result from the investigations, so how can you prove he was lying?

[afatchic]

This paragraph seems particularly wishy-washy, even for you, afatchic. You first state that Adel's predecessor is definitely scummy, then you assume he's town, then you demand an explanation from Adel; and finally you conclude that right now she's probably a townie. I sense a connection; such uncertainty makes me think of a partnership where you can't decide whether to bus, distance or defend.

I said his play was extremely terrible, with all the rolefishing and everything... but then i thought about it and came to a logical conclusion why town-BoW would do that. im not asking Adel to explain why he did it. I just think my conclusion will be proven one way or the other in a lylo mass claim. if it goes the way i think it will, their would be no reason to suspect him, if it goes the other, i would be highly suspicious of him.

[afatchic]

And me with darkdude? Apart from me not being scum in the first place, why would I have voted for dd if I was aligned with him? Please explain before you start to sling "what-ifs".

So you are saying there is no way that you could have been aligned with DD because you voted for him, yet you just voted Rage, who pretty much counterclaimed and forced the DD lynch? please explain.

Haven't I answered this already?

Yep and it was a really bad answer... so try again...

And with all of that said, I am ready to vote.

Vote: Rage

Reasoning: You focusing so much on me even though you resulted nothing is enough for me to be suspicious of your actions. And the other votes on you seem to be justified in my eyes as there have been some cases brought against you that I could agree with.

This is post 633, where you first vote Rage.

And me with darkdude? Apart from me not being scum in the first place, why would I have voted for dd if I was aligned with him? Please explain before you start to sling "what-ifs".

And this is post 664 where you are still using the excuse that you voted DD for why you can't be his partner. This implies that you don't realize yet that people bus scum buddies. So then why, 2 days earlier, would you vote Rage, the person who kinda sealed DD's fate?


And how did i sound like i was fishing by asking you why you voted for him?

[Rage]

Adel- BoW may have been the scummiest play i have ever read through. he def. ranks up in the top 3 or 5. and reading through i was astounded he wasn't lynched a few pages into day 1. however if you look at it assuming he is town, i believe there is a very logical explanation, which i expect to hear from Adel later in the game. If i don't hear the explanation i am waiting for, i may be inclined to vote him based on how badly BoW played, but right now i think he is a townie.

This paragraph seems particularly wishy-washy,

even for you, afatchic. You first state that Adel's predecessor is definitely scummy, then you assume he's town, then you demand an explanation from Adel; and finally you conclude that right now she's probably a townie. I sense a connection; such uncertainty makes me think of a partnership where you can't decide whether to bus, distance or defend.

QFT

So you agree that the paragraph seems particularly wishy-wasy, correct? What makes you think this way?

------

What makes you think that I've been roleblocked every night? What do you think of my Tracker claim?

I counterclaimed DD because he claimed to have done something on N0. I didn't think I was roleblocked two nights in a row (at that time I had two investigations) or even for the first night, so I was certain that he was fakeclaiming.

Im believing it less as less. so how else do you explain the you never recieved a result for your investigations.

"Never Received a Result" is not the same as "No Result". That's the confusion here.

and yes i would believe if you had been RB'd every night.

How do you know there's a roleblocker, and how do you know that he/she's been targeting me? Even if there is a roleblocker, it will not disprove NOR prove my claim.

Are you saying that if a Roleblocker claims now, that you will believe his/her claim, even if they have only blocked me?

Normally, if you "track" someone you will either get a Pm back saying they visited ___ or they didn't visit anyone.

I have confirmation that "they didn't visit anyone" is the equivalent of "No Result". Explained a couple quotes below.

by getting no result would imply something happened to you at night(roleblocked, jailed)

Not in this game, it doesn't.

which is why you didn't get your result.

How do you know I didn't get results? This question is asking about you knowing I'm not getting accurate results, not a contradiction of me getting No Results all the time.

So you countering a Claimed Watcher on false information seems really suspicious to me.

It's not false information. I know 100%, with confirmation from the mod (I can't prove that now, though) that I will receive a No Result if the player doesn't target anyone OR if I am roleblocked. To the extent of my knowledge, getting a No Result implies in NO way that something has happened to me that night.

I know you think there's a possibility of a roleblocker, but if you're a Tracker with an investigation from the beginning of the game and someone claims something that doesn't match up with what you've got, wouldn't that mean that they're lying? Darkdude said it himself in Post #145, why would Town lie?

But you just said you didn't have a result from the investigations, so how can you prove he was lying?

I've had three results from investigations. They're identical, as far as I know. One of them has lead to scum.

I couldn't prove anything. I just figured that the odds of me being roleblocked on Night 0 were slimmer than on Night 1. I have no way to prove that any investigation is accurate, I mean, one of them did lead to a scum's death. I can't prove that my investigations happened, and I can't prove if they're accurate. I shouldn't be expected to. You saying there might be a roleblocker complicates things further, and I

have

taken that possibility into consideration. However, nothing can be proven now.

Taking into consideration your implication that you and Adel are going to live until LyLo (below) that shouldn't be a reason to doubt my claim.

This paragraph seems particularly wishy-washy, even for you, afatchic. You first state that Adel's predecessor is definitely scummy, then you assume he's town, then you demand an explanation from Adel; and finally you conclude that right now she's probably a townie. I sense a connection; such uncertainty makes me think of a partnership where you can't decide whether to bus, distance or defend.

I said his play was extremely terrible, with all the rolefishing and everything... but then i thought about it and came to a logical conclusion why town-BoW would do that. im not asking Adel to explain why he did it. I just think my conclusion will be proven one way or the other in a lylo mass claim. if it goes the way i think it will, their would be no reason to suspect him, if it goes the other, i would be highly suspicious of him.

I'm confused. Are you expecting Adel's claim to satisfy your suspicion? How else can you expect Adel to explain something that the person he replaced said, when Brain of Wombat has already claimed Vanilla Townie?

[Adel]

I'm confused. Are you expecting Adel's claim to satisfy your suspicion? How else can you expect Adel to explain something that the person he replaced said, when Brain of Wombat has already claimed Vanilla Townie?

I can't decide if this should count as rolefishing or not

[Rage]

Is it an 'either or*' situation?

*Either it is or it isn't.

[Ectomancer]

Ectomancer: You say you rate an insanepenguin lynch higher than Tubby216. What about Rage, who you seemed adamant about not long ago?

I think we have 2 scum remaining.

I'm now on the fence about an IP lynch. Pandering is a newbie trait in my experience, and I've played quite a number of newbie games.

Rage...I've been trying to think of a way to use Rage to be quite honest. I've also been trying to think of a way that he could clear himself. I may have a way, but am trying to decide whether to use it or not. I think that if he is pro-town, then we have an obligation to wait before lynching to see what else he finds. DarkDude was unbelievable even with his claim. Rage provides me with more doubt.

[Adel]

@rage, how confirmed do you think ecto and ThAdmiral are? on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being unconfirmed, and 10 being fully confirmed as town?