Mafia 86 - mafia.gif - Game Over!

[ShadowGirl]

Fine. I finished.

[BlakAdder]

...And?

[The Fonz]

...And?

[ShadowGirl]

BA: You need to answer my question.

The information sunk into my mind.

What, do you want a list of who I think is scum/not scum?

[Jebus]

That'd be nice.

[BlakAdder]

@ShadowGirl: Llama has been pro-town the rest of the game, and asking for a vig counter-claim could just be stupidity/carelessness rather than scuminess.
I would like at least some kind of analysis, some kind of sign that you've read. What do you think of what's been happening?

[Jebus]

@ShadowGirl:

Llama has been pro-town the rest of the game, and asking for a vig counter-claim could just be stupidity/carelessness rather than scuminess.

I would like at least some kind of analysis, some kind of sign that you've read. What do you think of what's been happening?

Wait, what? (see quote in next post)

[Jebus]

I've said it before, I'll say it again. I'm a vanilla townie. If the game isn't over tomorrow, promise me you'll lynch Jebus,

and possibly LlamaFluff as well

when Jebus flips scum.

The way Llama's been acting towards Jebus's claim makes me think that they are scum partners

So, um, what?

[BlakAdder]

I was angry then. A guy can't change his mind once he's clear-headed?

[The Fonz]

What, do you want a list of who I think is scum/not scum?

I'd like some kind of analysis... basically anything at all that might give the impression that you actually want to find scum, as opposed to being scum sliding by on 'helpful' but meaningless non-scumhunting posts the entire way.

[Sierra]

Damn you The Fonz. I was fully convinced that seph/niv/you was scum, but after reading over post 1012 a couple of times I can only conclude that you're right and most of the earlier accusations against you were flawed. You realize of course that if you're scum and end up winning this game, I will never ever trust a replacement again and I'll be pre-emptively voting every replacement in future games, only saying "blame The Fonz".

Unvote.

I will respond to this, because you asked:

Sierra: posting his hammer post, and saying 'Well, he did think he was next in line' doesn't add anything. It doesn't support your argument. Please address my argument: namely, that it is blatantly obvious that Seph is only distancing himself from the hammer IN THE SCENARIO WHERE EMP COMES UP JESTER.

I agree with your argument about Seph distancing himself from the hammer. The reason I quoted his hammer post is because he ends that post saying "If he turns up town, I guess the joke's on me, then." This sounds to me like he was expecting to get lynched the next day if Emp turned up town, which supports my argument about him replacing out to escape the heat.


I still believe EA is SK or Greek (see my post 954 for reasoning), but I guess I'm ok with letting the vig handle him. I'm not sure yet who to vote at this point. I have a town-read on massive and I was fairly positive about LF too, although I must admit that was partly because he agreed with me earlier on The Fonz being scum. I'll have to reread the last few pages keeping in mind that The Fonz is not necessarily scum. I don't have the time for that right now, so I'll get back to you on that this weekend.

[The Fonz]

Farside,

, you apparently believe BA is Jap and EA SK. Who's greek?

[massive]

If somehow ShadowGirl does NOT get lynched for her play in this game, we will be able to point back to it as an example of "how to lurk in Mafia games when you're Mafia without getting caught." Because man is she writing the book on it.

[The Fonz]

Indeed. However, Cybele did the same thing, SpringLullaby is still doing it (

mod: prod please. Another one that's posting elsewhere.

) And LF, upon replacing Cybele, has been the textbook opportunistic scum.

[ShadowGirl]

I'm rereading the thread, thank you very much. I'm up to page ten. I have notes to prove it if you think I'm lying. You're welcome. If you think I'm doing such a terrible job, then I'll replace out if you want so you don't have to endlessly wait for me.

@Massive: If you think I'm scum then vote me, that's all there is to it.

[The Fonz]

The 'whiny scum' tactic won't work either.

The only, and I mean only, reason I'm not voting you is that LF looks even scummier.

If you're town, you're hurting your side by active lurking.

If you're scum, you're doing just fine. But don't be surprised when we lynch you.

[farside22]

Farside,

, you apparently believe BA is Jap and EA SK. Who's greek?

I would say Llama as top contender based on his last comment. I think I would need to reread a few things to really see if I see anything else.

[The Fonz]

What, in particular, did you dislike about that comment?

[farside22]

Just to continue really quickly. Reading Electra alone she gave nothing away as far as talking with anyone or ignoring anyone. It may take me a bit to get a better read on the remaining players to figure out the Greek mafia.

[The Fonz]

Another thing to think about is that there's probs two greeks alive. So you can look for ties between living players.

[farside22]

Also, what makes you think Sierra or I are the SK?

My notes basically just have you two as options at this point. EA doesnt fit and SL doesnt fit for that part of the puzzle.

I have strong greek or a town read on everyone else (except BA who I just am clueless on).

I know its pretty conveluted in the process that I went through, but if someone counterclaimed right there it would of ment a scum lynch, no questions asked. If fact it still would if someone counters EA, would make my job a bit easier.

Will get to the other stuff a bit later.

The part in bold is an odd thing to say. It seems like what mafia bussing a scum partner. Why for example is it town or Greek on people. I have only been in one game with Llama when he was mafia but I read another where he did bus his scum parnters to look more town. So this little comment doesn't seem like something that should be ignored in his case.
Especially looking at the kills there is another Jap (at least one). Could there be more then one? I can't imagine the balance on that as mod.

[BlakAdder]

SG: At the top of this page, you said that you were finished with your reread. In post 1064, you said that you are still rereading and were on page 10. While this does not make me scream "scum," lying does not earn you any points from me.

[ShadowGirl]

@BA: Reread of the last three pages, not the whole game. Remember how I kept saying the last few pages were such big walls of text? That's what I'd been reading and indicated I had finished.

@Fonz: 'Whiny'? I would consider that someone being pissed, but to each to their own opinion.

Was doing packing, so back to my reread.

[BlakAdder]

Fair enough.

[ShadowGirl]

Well, since you asked nicely.

If talk down to me like that once more, then I promise you I'll make it my goal not to post.

...

Alright, I'm better now. Suffice to say, I've been having a crummy holiday as it is and the reason I have to go away for five days is because my aunt has cancer...

As well, I lost a game recently because SSK and his infuriating lurking. I guess we slowly become what we despise most.

Onto the reread :

---

LlamaFluff (Cybele) : Possibly greek, with BA as a scum buddy?
On page three, both of them voted skitzer 'for unvoting and not revoting during random stage', but when they were both pressured they backed off and deemed it was random. Coupled with the fact he throws out the newbie card when further pressured.

Page four:

Well, if we're going to just hop a wagon for a claim, why not run Jebus to L:-3? ooba seems like an arbitrary choice.

Rolefishing - Jebus mentioned nothining but starting a wagon for a claim.

Page Fifteen:

@Erratus; okay. How am I supposed to answer that anyways? It seems to me to be more of a snide comment than a real inquisition. Okay. It wasn't funny. Is that what you'd like me to say?

@ Rush: Seriously, are you reading this thread, because that was a well-dropped hammer. Tajo was clearly lying about being a doc, and the fact that he ended up town is only a result of his poor playing than CKD not taking waiting longer to hammer.

I like the points being made by armlx and CKD regarding BlakAdder.He did come off as Stef's scumbuddy when I looked over D1. However, I can hardly even understand his arguements over the last page. It's a bit confusing.

vote: BlkAdder

Possible distancing? (I realize, circumstantial.)

I wasn't keeping track of who might be in which mafia. I'm not picky at the moment.

If there was a guilty on one of each family wouldnt you rather get rid of the Jap mafia first in an attempt to cut down ammount of NKs? Same question to BA and the other massive voters. This wagon massive is really weak, BA is very likely the Jap member, Seph very likely a Greek.

Another dosage of about the possible (perhaps even non existant japanese mafia) I can see this (town searching for the last japanese mafia) as very much a benifit to the greek mafia.

Jebus isnt lying, if he is there is a mafia doctor. Hypothetically, Greek should win if we lynch non-vig town today, all kills go through, and no greeks die. Even if Jebus is Greek trying to do something like this, he gets viged at least if EA is town, and likely killed by anti-town player even if EA is scum.

Translation - BA is confirmed anti-town since he didnt just claim vig. EA is nearly certain anti-town since the vig probably killed Rush.

Lets kill EA since it might get rid of the last Jap

I find it interesting that you're so sure that Jebus is being truthful, though you do throw out some unlikely scenario that could lead him to be.

Also, what makes you think Sierra or I are the SK?

My notes basically just have you two as options at this point. EA doesnt fit and SL doesnt fit for that part of the puzzle. I have strong greek or a town read on everyone else (except BA who I just am clueless on).

What happened to BA being the last japanese?

---

BlakAdder : Possible greek, possible japanese.

Page 5:

"Quoted for truth". I t basically means "I agree, but don't have anything to really say."

You seem doing that a lot. (Disclaimer :Yeah, I could possibly be being hypocritical? I don't know.)

Page 9 :

Sorry I've been gone for so long. Anyway, everything I wanted to say has been pretty much covered at this point. I want to vote Tajo and Stef, but I'm going to wait for a vote count, so I don't accidentally hammer prematurely. So, in the mean time:

HOS: populartajo and Stef

.

See your above quote. You did again.

@Stef: I already mentioned, everything that I think has already been said. But, overall, populartajo's vote on Sierra and bad defense of you are the reason he's scummy. Personally, you would not be that suspicious yourself if he had not tried to rush to your defense.
So,

vote: populartajo

. Since your scumminess relies on the assumption that you and tajo are partners, you'll be partially cleared if tajo flips town.

Interesting that he goes for tajo instead of stef, under the assumption that if tajo flips scum that stef is cleared - which could certainly work out in the japanese's favour.

You misunderstand the question, I think. How would he be at all cleared?

Because the only reason I am suspicious of him is because of the potential connection to tajo. If tajo flips town, then that is gone.

Once again, if tajo flips town (which scum would know) the suspicion of Stef flutters away.

Page 15: Sekinj's post 353 : Not wanting to get a scumbuddy lynched.

blakadder - random votes Stef(!!scum partner random vote?), finds P-T and Stef suspicious, the infamous "Since your scumminess relies on the assumption that you and tajo are partners, you'll be partially cleared if tajo flips town. " which I don't find to be much of a read unless BlakAdder is newbie scum. (is he?) a lot of stuff about how he wasn't defending Stef. scummyrelation level: midhigh

Distancing, me thinks.

This settles it.

vote: Empking

, for the insults, the backtracking, and the scum slip.

Wagon hop, with a sentence just enough to reason the vote.

So anyway, ultimately, it does seem like BlakAdder is a good choice, however, it almost seems too obvious? Cybele's one move is very suspicious to me, but since he didn't do anything else, I can't say for sure. Ku_F's response is kind of weird, it seems almost like fake-indignant. Not sure if the double random vote is less or more suspicious than a single random vote. I also find Ku_F's posting to be Mafia-ish aside from interactions with Stef, no examples, just a general read.

Another post with possible distancing of all the players she metioned - now reluctant to follow through with a BA vote.

As for voting, I'm not ready yet. xD Does no one think this BlakAdder thing is too obvious? After all, even though Stefdeath was a surprise, they would have had to know that Stef would still be under suspicion today and possibly be lynched? Which would have the same effect on BlakAdder. Does that make sense?

Once again reluctant to follow through with a BA vote.

I don't know, I see some validity in that vote.

Flavour should not reveal anything about the setup. How is the vote valid?

Yes, I am. I no longer support Massive's vote on Seraphim.

Now that no one else supporting the potential mislynch, you make off. You seem to be rather wishy washy.

Still here, not much has changed, though I do support a gorckat lynch.

vote: gorckat

Oppurtunistic vote, with no reasoning attatched.

At this point, I would be okay with a Rush lynch too.

unvote, vote: Rush

Read above statement about his voting.

The more I think about it, the less I like Skitzer.

unvote, vote: skitzer

... Same thing as above above.

Oh seriously, obviously I meant "all 4 killing groups." If you really think I'm intimating that there are 4 mafia groups, you are using blatant opportunism and have quickly risen in my "likely to also be scum" list.

Come on. Now it's almost like you're trying to get votes.

vote: massive

Oppurtunistic! Oppurtunistic!

I've said it before, I'll say it again. I'm a vanilla townie. If the game isn't over tomorrow, promise me you'll lynch Jebus, and possibly LlamaFluff as well when Jebus flips scum. The way Llama's been acting towards Jebus's claim makes me think that they are scum partners

I could very likely see this as way that if we lynch you (and you flip scum), that we overlook Llama.

Fair enough.

unvote

Just applying pressure for the sake of experimentation.

You're all sure that he's scum and should be lynched, you deem he slipped - but then after a small explanation, you take your vote off quickly. Wishy washy, once again.

I'm willing to hammer Niv if he does not claim/post soon.

Eager to get to night, hm?

I'm here. I'm not sure where to stand on most of the stuff going on right now. A few things that I'm sure of: I still don't like Jebus's lying. Neither Fonz nor Llama looks like scum to me right now. I agree that we need to move on past the EA issue.

Your opinion on Llama seems to change every couple posts.

---

springlullaby (Haschel Cedricson) :

Woo, promising reread and post later today before this thread explodes.

I'm not ignoring this game, but i won't have time to post until Sunday or Tuesday.

First post after the random stage :
Page Eight:

Woo, promising reread and post later today before this thread explodes.

Day two:

Acknowledging visit from Bobo. Will post tomorrow.

Sorry 'bout disappearing.

---

Fonz: ((Niv (gorckat (Seraphim)) :

First off, I plan on actually reading the topic and posting this time around. Then I'll make a post that is actually relevant. But, first, to answer the question...

I do believe there are at two Mafia families. The first clearly killed a member of the opposing family, so there's now a Mafia family with one less member. The second kill may be the Cult Leader who tried to recruit a Mafia member or the second Mafia family's kill.

Another unrelated question: Did the Cult Leader recruit anyone, and if so, is it important now or is the cult now disbanded?

Pretty much the only glimpse we see of him in day two up until the very end - just curious that Sierra doesn't call him out for lurking once more.

Well, awesome night for the town. Going to go back and reread the dead players. Also, I would believe the Japanese Mafia is gone, but playstyle should not be altered either way. We'll see whether or not they're still alive tonight.

And I'm not the only person who said it was an good night for town, btw.

---

Jahudo (Ku_F) : More probably greek. Maybe japanese?
Page six :

It is? Didn't know that. [sarcasm]I'll never use a smiley ever again[/sarcasm]

CKD, I thought that your reason for a vote against Cybele is weak. [entry post]Besides, we women support each other this game[/entry post]. That's my reason to vote you.

Rather touchy about it all, and not keen on a Cybele lynch. (Circumstantial until LF turns up Greek.)

Not every player with a strange avatar and a goon status is a newbie. You shouldn't underestimate them. But I don't like post 140. You're giving him an excuse to keep posting like that.

At the very least not the remaining Jap.

It is? Didn't know that. [sarcasm]I'll never use a smiley ever again[/sarcasm]

[...]

Trying to undermine the smiley meta.

Ku_F - random votes stef(!!) is also random voted by stef (!!), does not address stef otherwise. level:midhigh

Distancing?

---

farside22 (DynamoXI) :
Didn't post at in the first two days.

Curiousity makes me ask this hascow. Do you think BA is scum based on his interaction with the Jap mafia or do you think he is just scummy in general?

Curiousity makes me ask this hascow. Do you think BA is scum based on his interaction with the Jap mafia or do you think he is just scummy in general?

his interactions were interesting, but I don't think that they make him jap mafia or townie. I'm thinking greek mafia is possible, because his actions are scummy without knowing others' alignments.

Small chance of being greek - seeing as has found BA to be greek, perhaps he was NKed because of it? Weak link.

---

Jebus :

I'm pretty sure there's one more Yakuza out there because of sekinj's "bah" post on page 22, just after the night scene. Remember, that was still day three.

Basically, it said "Go Yakuza, win win win!". This tells me

Oh, there's still a chance for Yakuza to win, so most likely there's still more of them

.
You're right though, it's possible he's trying to screw with us, but let's assume the worst. Pascal's Wager, sort of, if we assume (bet) that there's still one more out there, we can only gain, and not have anything to lose, except time, which we've got plenty to spare for finding this info. Besides, we can always just find out after the next night scene :/

And I didn't FoS curiouskarmadog for his hammer because I found populartajo to be superscummy, so aka, it didn't put much of a blip on my scum-o-meter.

Possible greek? Weak link, once again. Give the town a shot of paranoia and try look for a possible last japanese.

---

massive : I'm sorry to say, but accusing you me of active lurking is very hypocritical. So stop it.

I ... wait, how is it that we haven't won yet? Geezus.

This game is ringing up more dead scum than Elliot Ness.

Here.

It's my first "big game" in a very long time and ... well, here, I'll admit it: You all are too random for me. The younger generation has become a string of injokes and pure luck and not real mafia hunting skills. I can't even tell you why we lynched the people we lynched. I know that the mafias have been doing all the town's work, though.

skitzer

: With five of the eight deaths in the game being bad guys, do you still worry about winning the game?

And here.

This post is very condescending. You comment that no one is displaying “real” mafia hunting skills. Yet you have done EXACT JACK, to scum hunt. It is very obvious why Emp was lynched yesterday. It has nothing to do with in jokes (which I have not seen in this game passed the random vote stage). You also state you “know” that the mafia have been doing all the town’s work. How would you know that? With 4 kills it is a good assumption that we have a SK and a vig too. How do you know which are mafia’s kill and which are not?
Why are you not scum hunting? Show this generation how grandpa does it, but start by answering my questions..

I think that arguing that the mafia is NOT doing the town's work is rather ridiculous in the face of the record of the town (2 lynches, 2 townies) versus the night kill record (6 kills, 5 bad guys). If you add in the likelihood that the vig didn't shoot night one, then you have exactly ONE death you can attribute to a pro-town player.

I've done "exact Jack" to hunt scum because I've been offsite for about eighteen of the 33 days this game has been going on. I guess you guys DO need Grandpa to show you how it's done.

Here as well.

vote Seraphim

Yes, I know, being replaced, blah blah blah, but I went back and re-read the night scene and in it, it indicates that Tar tracked the person who killed sekinj. That coupled with the post I quoted (Tar clearly thought Seraphim was scum and ready to lynch him today) makes him a decent candidate to have been tracked.

And scumhunting via flavour is practically a cry for a mislynch.

If we believe that there is the possibility of a fourth Japanese Mafia member, we should clearly go back to BA, since he was easily the scummiest person over the first three days (that's still alive).

Going after the easiest target without saying why you think he is the scummiest person.

Of course I'm willing to vote for anyone. I've already expressed that I have suspicions about at least three people, what they are, and this thread needs more lynching and less standing around looking at people.

Previous post for reference to the contradiction.

Please point out where I've indicated I'm willing to vote for anyone. I'm pretty sure I've only voted for people I've found suspicious, and have given reasons in every instance. Hrm.

First of all, a contradiction of your last post about you not willing to vote for anyone. And second - reasons, but not very good ones. (See vote for Seph based on flavour, of all things.)

I think it's because I look "lynchable" ... as LlamaFluff pointed out, lynching a townie and multiple non-Greek deaths ends in a Greek victory, and as you watch people stream onto and then off of me, you get the very distinct feeling that, since I had suspicion on me yesterday (and was in the duel), that I am an easy target. That's my impression.

I think that EA's kills, while turning out to be beneficial to the town, were not made with the best town intentions. I've previously voted for Seraphim and would happily vote for Niv, so I guess we're just waiting.

You get a few votes, and this is all you say about them - and about the game. Active lurking, but you don't even give much of a defense.

If somehow ShadowGirl does NOT get lynched for her play in this game, we will be able to point back to it as an example of "how to lurk in Mafia games when you're Mafia without getting caught." Because man is she writing the book on it.

This statement would work just as well if you replaced your name with mine.

---

Sierra : Possible japanese or greek.
Page 6:

Pressure on Stef is good. I'll wait to see how he responds to the accusations above before I decide whether or not to put my vote there.

Advocating the Stef wagon but not voting just yet - not wanting to lynch one of his buddies on day one, perhaps?

Page 8 :

To answer some questions directed at me:

By not participating in the random voting phase you are denying other players from getting any kind of read on you. Just because someone doesn't like that stage of the game, doesn't mean he should be allowed to get off not participating in it.

So, its sort of a lurking scumtell, you're saying? Do you find lurkers are more often scum?

In short: yes and yes.

But after this, that seems to be the last time you call anyone out for lurking. Not Has, not Seph again (in day two or even three), Ghost, Dynamo (who made absolutely no posts from what I can see), spring, etc.

---

I'm really rather between BA [who arguably has pretty been active lurking but coupled with some really oppurtunistic votes] and Llama.

So,

Vote: Llama

But I would just as well go for a BA lynch.