Mini Normal 2334: trees (Day 6)

[Black]

I had a thought when reading 2404 that Smiley is really trying to save his scum PR but then it hit me that I don't really know why he would be doing that. Even if Smiley is faded I don't think there is any world where DGB gets a kill off due to Nick being so sus of her. And she can't roleblock because there's no multitasking. (Side note I'm kinda curious what would happen if roleblocker and JK target each other?)

This move doesn't really make sense in a Smiley/DGB solve

nah fam that's not solving cuz gypyx said nuh uh and I made a similar conclusion

Did I miss this conclusion from you?

well I am not currently advocating that Smiley is scum here and instead pushing to resolve dgb first, I thought it was implicit that I believed there was a higher than 0 chance Smiley is town. But if u also wanna vote me here go ahead I guess we can throw another miseliminatikn away just like Hu tao did because he wanted to claim things for fun. Guess it was too easy of a game with rationalmadman getting a scum d1 gotta make it harder

Ehh. I don't really think you're scum

[Black]

VOTE: DGB

Still willing to go Smiley but that doesn't seem to be getting much support for some reason

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

VOTE: DGB

Still willing to go Smiley but that doesn't seem to be getting much support for some reason

You just said Smiley is unlikely to be with dgb ?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

please help me im in a circus

[Black]

VOTE: DGB

Still willing to go Smiley but that doesn't seem to be getting much support for some reason

You just said Smiley is unlikely to be with dgb ?

They are my top two scumreads even with me thinking they might not be paired now. I haven't had the chance to look for other DGB partners. This is a new development for me

[Aureal]

I had a thought when reading 2404 that Smiley is really trying to save his scum PR but then it hit me that I don't really know why he would be doing that. Even if Smiley is faded I don't think there is any world where DGB gets a kill off due to Nick being so sus of her. And she can't roleblock because there's no multitasking. (Side note I'm kinda curious what would happen if roleblocker and JK target each other?)

This move doesn't really make sense in a Smiley/DGB solve

Roleblocker blocks jailkeeper due to resolving first in NAR. Doesn't matter to this game tonight if there's one scum left because no multitasking.

And like I said, DGB and Smiley are just hard defending each other here and I don't know how you guys can read Smiley thinking the claimed investigative is the most likely pr to be scum and think that makes sense instead of being ridiculous.

[DrippingGoofball]

VOTE: DGB

Still willing to go Smiley but that doesn't seem to be getting much support for some reason

You just said Smiley is unlikely to be with dgb ?

They are my top two scumreads even with me thinking they might not be paired now. I haven't had the chance to look for other DGB partners. This is a new development for me

Save yourself some time, I am town.

[tris]

VC 4.3

Grovyle in a Fedora (3):

DrippingGoofball 2293, SmileyDude1 2380, Gypyx 2408

DrippingGoofball (3):

Grovyle in a Fedora 2275, Aureal 2316, Black 2426

Not Voting:

DrNickRiviera, Gibdo

With 8 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline:

(expired on 2024-05-16 16:20:00)

[DrNickRiviera]

VOTE: DGB

Still willing to go Smiley but that doesn't seem to be getting much support for some reason

You just said Smiley is unlikely to be with dgb ?

They are my top two scumreads even with me thinking they might not be paired now. I haven't had the chance to look for other DGB partners. This is a new development for me

Save yourself some time, I am town.

I will attempt to talk to you like you are town......again

Why is smiley town?

Also, since no one asked(unless I missed it), why didn't you act N1?

[DrippingGoofball]

Smiley makes sense and is high effort.

I did not act night 1 because I hate town roleblocker, people always think you're scum for it. I couldn't think of who to target.

[DrNickRiviera]

Smiley makes sense and is high effort.

I did not act night 1 because I hate town roleblocker, people always think you're scum for it. I couldn't think of who to target.

On my main, would often get accused of being scum since I would be very loosely goosey and did my own thing.....and when scum would get town read since I was very 'buttoned up' and 'made lots of sense's

Hell, I still apply this to my scum games

What did you make of Thomith?

[SmileyDude1]

I don't think my play makes sense for scum here and I maintain that. The only "argument" against my slot is mech voodoo. Going by dayplay over mechplay is almost always the correct choice, for which DGB falls into the category of having the scummier. I'll point to the hu tao vote again, I clearly showed I played with info I had on hu tao and had they not claimed the role they did, they would have lived there. I don't get how it gets clearer than that that I have been playing this game like a town vanilla cop and its obnoxious that shitty setup spec is being used to discredit me.

To clarify, you were one of my top suspects based on dayplay entering this phase based off of what I read.

I felt your interactions with Ming were bad with398 positing a strong townread there and 417 which gave me chainsaw vibes. More kind of potential chainsaw stuff comes in 778 and even when you back off from RM in 1019 it comes with a discredit of their Ming read there. Then the end of day where you kind of toy around with voting Ming, but don't wind up doing so doesn't feel endorsing either (would be lying by ommission if I didn't mention that I don't like 1209 in particular within this sequence, felt like a last ditch effort to try to deflect away from the Ming wagon there).

In general your voting records been bad, being off of the only scum-lim and on both town-lims this game so far. The day 3 lim is particularly notable given you wound up on Hu Tao via a quick pivot towards them after calling them a town-lean earlier in the phase 2073 which feels weird to me. I see where that happened (starting at 2111) but I think the response and where it's taken felt disproportionate to what Hu said and it feels like taking advantage of an opening to justify voting them again rather than an actual stance to me. Like obvs me and Grov are wired different, though I do think it feels more natural to ask HT to elaborate rather than assume bad faith there in most scenarios, it does give forced pings to me.

a) this completely misrepresets how i played around ming and trying to paint me as being wrong early on as being scum doing so. my vote was for all intents and purposes on ming there after pointing out he had fallen off significantly since daystart. also 1209 I do not understand what you are trying to pull from that, I am thinking about ming scum and it feels like you pulled random posts out of context especially with that one.

And when we go onto your accusation of me making up a justification of voting hu tao is even further out of context - when I have already claimed... MULTIPLE TIMES this dayphase that I had a vanilla result on hu tao, and my insistence to vote hu is clearly post-claim. Yeah I didnt quite justify it as logically as a normal townie might there, because I was a PR with a result that contradicted their claim and even pointed out to hu tao directly that they didnt play like a doctor, which was a subtle way of saying "i know you're not a doc".


you are just caught not reading here while trying to come off as well read in the game, at worst. If you want to thunderdome me, fine, but this feels like an adhoc justification to push me over dgb this dayphase.

I was disputing your statement in 2393 that the only argument against you was mech reasons. I think their are clear reasons to be skeptical of your dayplay here and ito state otherwise came off as a misrep. Also at my push here being ad-hoc given that it's implied in my 2301 that I was suspect of your play entering this day phase, besides if I wanted to actually shitpush your voting record I could have brought up the Klick lim which you were one of the main advocates of (alongside AD if i'm reading context correctly), I did not due to my view that it felt like it was a mistake I could see town making in a vacuum. I only brought up what felt to me to be off aspects of your dayplay (when I say off I mean, in a way I feel is better than rand to be scum aligned), to be clear on its own I'm not sure i'd be confident enough in my case, when I combine it with my mech findings from earlier I do think it always becomes the play to resolve you or me here.


Will say that rereading after HT's 2122 I can see the perspective more. Will say that some aspects of it feel off to me (like I do think the way this was approached feels too passive given you know there's a contradiction there, I think it feels off to me that you wait to posit that HT could be scum fake claiming until 2136 instead of driving at it during the preceding posts after the claim, could well just be a playstyle difference though), though I can see more where town!you wouId be coming from.

I personally am way less sure of your slot being a hit than my own but if you want to continue pushing this bad faith thunderdome while I'm insisting on flpping dgb, it only leads me to believe that you are defending a scum partner who claimed to bail you out

I'm not pushing the 1v1 in bad faith here. From my perspective one of 2 things happened here to cause a no-kill

1. Scum!you got blocked by DGB
2.Scum shot into town me

From Town!You's perspective, one of 2 things happened here to cause a no-kill
1. Scum!Smiley got blocked by Nick
2. Scum shot into Town!Smiley

Occam's razors states its more likely that a scenario 1 occurred here than scenario 2 unless there's a strong reason that suggest my slot would have been killed. Given that my slot was apparently under suspicion entering this day phase (your early vote on me this day phase, Nick claiming to block me) I don't think it's particularly likely that scum would've seen my slot as a high-priority target last night phase. Keep in mind we have a mislim to spare, in the world we're both town and we are in the more complicated world here, I think it's imperative that whoever lives find this out

NOW

rather than divert, risk flipping green and then likely just resolving within us anyways the next phase (which would be guaranteed loss in that scenario).

I re-up this question to you Grovyle

Yeah I don't see much reason to shoot there either, which is exactly why the jk almost certainly was stopping him from making the kill rather than being it.

Also the whole "working in lockstep with Goofball to defend each other once they got tied together" thing.

If it's almost certain that Smiley is scum then why should we fade DGB today?

think of it this way: i think dgb is almost certainly scum here, and we have 2 PRs right now otherwise alive. since drnick is odd night, this means that if we remove scum's ability to roleblock, it will force scum to kill there and give me an extra result.

also thomith's actions are less scummy than dgb's here, and it very well could have been a PR read shot since scum have only shot 1 PR so far and probably are desperate to find another this close to endgame.

we remove scum's counterplay to the remaining PRs we have a good shot at getting good info the next day. does that make sense? id really prefer if you voted dgb first here for that reason

This stands out to me, cause I think the idea of DGB being a scum roleblocker becomes even more dubious if you're of the thought that Nick was gated jailkeeper here.

Like IMO

Novice V-Cop
Jailkeeper
Neighborizer
VTS

Vs.

Roleblocker
Goons

feels kind of dubious to me on its own. If your thought was that the jailkeeper is gated as well then I do think it becomes rather apparent that an RB for scum doesn't work here. Think Town!Grov would be able to see that.

Also the part about getting an extra result is off to me because it implies a belief that they'd be able to get an useful result out of an additional check. In the world where this is correct and DGB is a scum roleblocker, I think it's undeniably correct that they don't have another PR here which means Grov wouldn't get any info out of an additional check here.

first off, I FINISHED MY FINAL -

shrug i was looking for arguments to resolve my stronger scumread and I misspecced.

drnick being not oddnight makes it more likely

i dont know how balance works on this site that well, I just figured that JK + neighorizer + an investigative was fine here

i think looking at mech is bad anyways and that dgb's dayplay is more incriminating here and that you can reasonably see my progression throughout this game. i am not one that wants to lose to both of us being town and you having been shot at - i dont think its outside of the realm of possibility by any means. who else should have died here? thomith and black after all were fairly clear based on the ming situation and thomith was posting fairly well while they were alive. shortcuts, especially ones that lead to losing situations if you assume wrongly - are bad.


also side note i i

I think even in the scenario that scum did shoot into me and we're both town it's best to at least partially resolve myself/you this day phase.

let me ask you a question, if we were to divert away from resolving us here and wound up flipping green, do you realistically see a scenario where we don't just wind up resolving within us tomorrow anyways here? Cause if a misflip in this state just means we resolve us tomorrow, I'd rather just rip the bandaid off now. In the reality we're actually both town, at the very least doing so would confirm to the survivor what happened and allow them to operate and try to solve based off that even if the situation would be dire there (also will say for this reason I do think it'd be a mistake to insta-toss the survivor of me/Grov in MELO should the other flip green, def should be main suspect but I think it'd be better to see what they cook up in that scenario). Whereas resolving it tomorrow would just result in us losing the game anyways if we're both town here.

[Gibdo]

We're getting good info either way we vote here and town can still afford to flip a green I think. VOTE: DGB

[SmileyDude1]

Want to say that I feel more confident that DGB is likely a miss here the more I see this phase play out. This doesn't feel likea Scum!DGB gamestate to me.

I feel like if we actually were in a Scum!DGB gamestate the calculus for what scum wants changes. In a Scum!!DGB world, I think scum would probs want to encourage the Grovyle/Me 1v1 in order to garner a mislim and set-up to win in M/ELO by pushing the survivor (unless partner is Grov or me, the former is moon logic given Grov's push and DGB's claimed block on Grov and i'll get back to the latter later). The fact this has not caught traction here is notable in this regard.

There are 2 worlds where DGB is scum here in regards to partners.

1.DGB + Anyone that is not me. In this world, I'd be town that's hard defending a scum slot here. Sentiment is driving towards limming DGB atm, I don't think this occurs as easily as it did in a world where Scum!DGB + Town!Me is in play. I feel like whoever DGB's partner would be in this scenario would have been able to take advantage of my defense there, at least in a way that the gamestate would feel more split than it currently is. The partner would literally need to be in the less active slots (Gypyx/Gibdo), but even then I feel like they'd have made more of an effort to capitalize off me pushing Grovyle (both of them stated support for my take though neither of them followed my vote onto it which I feel like scum would at least attempt to work their way towards doing here.

2.DGB + Me. This is the obvious link with DGB, and to this I go back to what I said earlier. If you think it's DGB/Me then flip me not DGB here. It still serves the purpose of resolving mysef/Grov before M/ELO and removes the straightforward (probs only realistic if i'm being honest) partner link to the DGB slot which should hopefully be cause for reconsideration on the slot.

-----
As an aside, DGB you better not be scum here. I'm going to turn into a frownydude if it turns out I hard defended scum here . (also if this winds up being the case, feel free to bring this up if I ever try to cook with mech spec again, I will have deserved it)

[SmileyDude1]

addendum to the above post, caught new Gypyx/Gibdo votes. Gypyx maybe could work as a DGB partner under scenario 1, though I don't really feel it here.

[DrippingGoofball]

We're getting good info either way we vote here and town can still afford to flip a green I think. VOTE: DGB

You should vote my roleblock target, that's way more informative since it will be a scum flip.

Any player that thinks otherwise is a likely scum partner to Grovyle.

[DrippingGoofball]

@Smiley i am town.

The scum will lim you tonight, and will pretty much sail to the win after that.

That's my pessimistic prediction.

[Aureal]

Kill me first... after my town flip, don't fade Smiley, Smiley is town.

We're getting good info either way we vote here and town can still afford to flip a green I think. VOTE: DGB

You should vote my roleblock target, that's way more informative since it will be a scum flip.

Any player that thinks otherwise is a likely scum partner to Grovyle.

Truly a cohesive mindset here and definitely not scum trying to look townier by feigning willingness to be voted.

DrNick, please make sure to let us know who you're jailkeeping tonight, just in case. I assume Smiley unless you say otherwise.

[Black]

Kinda busy as usual this weekend but I'll check in when I can

[DrNickRiviera]

Kill me first... after my town flip, don't fade Smiley, Smiley is town.

We're getting good info either way we vote here and town can still afford to flip a green I think. VOTE: DGB

You should vote my roleblock target, that's way more informative since it will be a scum flip.

Any player that thinks otherwise is a likely scum partner to Grovyle.

Truly a cohesive mindset here and definitely not scum trying to look townier by feigning willingness to be voted.

DrNick, please make sure to let us know who you're jailkeeping tonight, just in case. I assume Smiley unless you say otherwise.

If one of DGB flips scum, then would be Smiley

If Groyvle were to flip town, then DGB

If DGB were to flip town, then either Groyvle or Smiley

[DrNickRiviera]

@Smiley i am town.

The scum will lim you tonight, and will pretty much sail to the win after that.

That's my pessimistic prediction.

You have some wild takes about this game

[DrippingGoofball]

At least I'm not lining up mislims the good little scum that you are!

[DrNickRiviera]

At least I'm not lining up mislims the good little scum that you are!

Lol, actually I would be doing a shitty job at it if the person I would be trying to frame(Smiley)

*Checks notes*

Currently has no votes on them

But thank you for recognizing that I am generally good as scum, maybe I will give you some pointers post game

[DrippingGoofball]

We're getting good info either way we vote here and town can still afford to flip a green I think. VOTE: DGB

Nice to see you are choosing to flip green because flipping red is too much effort.

[DrippingGoofball]

At least I'm not lining up mislims the good little scum that you are!

Lol, actually I would be doing a shitty job at it if the person I would be trying to frame(Smiley)

*Checks notes*

Currently has no votes on them

But thank you for recognizing that I am generally good as scum, maybe I will give you some pointers post game

You are setting up tomorrow's mislim.

That was disingenuous of you.