Mini Normal 2335: Rainbows (Day 4)

[Robbnva]

I’m sure you could but I don’t think no elimination is ever optimal. So you wouldn’t be able to convince me. I doubt you’d be able to convince many people. These discussions have been done to death and no elimination is rarely a good idea.

[JacksonVirgo]

This random voting doesn't help tells. I don't get the point of it since people also intentionally avoid building wagons randomly from it.

Wagons matter, pure randoms don't.

In reference to your previous post, ending the day killing nobody isn’t optimal but I don’t have an issue with people who think it is.

Random voting is just something that happens, it’s a way to get conversation going. Sometimes an early wagon can help develop reads.

I can argue why it's superior game theory play for Town that DP1 ends in No Elim here rather than Scum.

The only time this becomes less true is with regulars who play hardball. Then softclaims and subtle buddying Vs bussing chaos can ensure to be read later.

You say you can argue it but you also ignore my entire post talking about it

[JacksonVirgo]

Consistency is overrated, that goes against my entire sctick

[JacksonVirgo]

I’m sure you could but I don’t think no elimination is ever optimal. So you wouldn’t be able to convince me. I doubt you’d be able to convince many people. These discussions have been done to death and no elimination is rarely a good idea.

It’s only optimal if it gives you more information from it than you would lose. Aka a 1v3 for instance without a clear and obvious town. Scum has to kill somebody and that gives free information rather than risking loss immediately. That’s pretty much the only real use for a no elim that I can think of.

[Robbnva]

Well right. I was referring to no elimination on day one. There are times when it is helpful.

[JacksonVirgo]

Well yeah, D1 would need an obvious breaking solve for me to consider noelim

[T3]

@Not_Mafia, are you the user Black? I ask for meta read reasons and she used that type of intro.

Lol

[Not_Mafia]

@Not_Mafia, are you the user Black? I ask for meta read reasons and she used that type of intro.

I am not

[Roden]

No I’m not.

Do you enjoy playing scum?

I hate playing as scum but I used to be better at playing scum. How about you?

I feel the same way, actually. I still find it fun if I have the right mindset going into the game beforehand, but I tend to dread red PMs these days.

[Roden]

Madman is probably town, the suggested strategy isn't likely to come from scum imo

[Roden]

This random voting doesn't help tells. I don't get the point of it since people also intentionally avoid building wagons randomly from it.

Wagons matter, pure randoms don't.

In reference to your previous post, ending the day killing nobody isn’t optimal but I don’t have an issue with people who think it is.

Random voting is just something that happens, it’s a way to get conversation going. Sometimes an early wagon can help develop reads.

I can argue why it's superior game theory play for Town that DP1 ends in No Elim here rather than Scum.

The only time this becomes less true is with regulars who play hardball. Then softclaims and subtle buddying Vs bussing chaos can ensure to be read later.

I'm interested in reading the argument, but I don't think giving scum a free Day 1 is ever going to happen. I don't see how we could ever pressure anyone if the threat of elimination doesn't exist.

[RationalMadman]

This random voting doesn't help tells. I don't get the point of it since people also intentionally avoid building wagons randomly from it.

Wagons matter, pure randoms don't.

In reference to your previous post, ending the day killing nobody isn’t optimal but I don’t have an issue with people who think it is.

Random voting is just something that happens, it’s a way to get conversation going. Sometimes an early wagon can help develop reads.

I can argue why it's superior game theory play for Town that DP1 ends in No Elim here rather than Scum.

The only time this becomes less true is with regulars who play hardball. Then softclaims and subtle buddying Vs bussing chaos can ensure to be read later.

You say you can argue it but you also ignore my entire post talking about it

Do you want me to argue for it? Yes or no

[Roden]

JV's early investment feels +town

[RationalMadman]

This random voting doesn't help tells. I don't get the point of it since people also intentionally avoid building wagons randomly from it.

Wagons matter, pure randoms don't.

In reference to your previous post, ending the day killing nobody isn’t optimal but I don’t have an issue with people who think it is.

Random voting is just something that happens, it’s a way to get conversation going. Sometimes an early wagon can help develop reads.

I can argue why it's superior game theory play for Town that DP1 ends in No Elim here rather than Scum.

The only time this becomes less true is with regulars who play hardball. Then softclaims and subtle buddying Vs bussing chaos can ensure to be read later.

I'm interested in reading the argument, but I don't think giving scum a free Day 1 is ever going to happen. I don't see how we could ever pressure anyone if the threat of elimination doesn't exist.

Okay. Threat of elimination comes day 2 instead of day 1.

Fast no elimination increases the odds Mafia can't read PRs vs vanillas but the price paid is lack of reads Town has on Mafia.

13 people. This is simple normal with a set 3 Vs 10 split where neither side is ever that powerful in an offensive manner.

3 people need only towntell DP1. 10 people need to townread 9 others and scumread at least 1 other as a majority while themselves Towntelling to the 9. This makes Town far more rigged against.

Let's say they land on Scum. Scum will presumably100% of the time if remotely competent, claim a PR to either get votes off of them or to entice Town PR to CC. However this 100% is ofc an illusion. We can say someone who is scum may claim vanilla as a double bluff.

Town usually ends up with 3 scenarios happening:

1. They forced Town PR to out while voting Scum (beat case scenario).
2. They vote off Town vanilla (bad but not as bad as scenario 3).
3. They vote off Town PR and not in an exchange where the PR got CCd (that's 1 for 1 it's zero sum trade) but instead in a scenario where the PR was unccd and assumed scum. (This is the worst case scenario).

To avoid scenario 1, the Town has to I crease likelihood of scenario 3. It's a toxic situation where they don't even ha e 1 night action report to guide the way things go.

The Scum gains more from DP1 playing out in full in PR reads and planning who to frame later based on who people already suspect. I am fairly immune to blindly stick tosuch biased but most players aren't. Most stick to DP1 reads all game and deny it's pure stubbornness rather than reinforced reasoning to the reads. This lets Scum navigate nightkills to frame others and easily glide to DP4 even if partner was voted off DP1. Again and again and again this happens in general. People think it's just part of the game but it all is because they gained far more from DP1 nonsense talks happening and focused on who suspects who and kept it nicely surrounding them.

[RationalMadman]

Best case not beat case

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: hu Tao

But why teddy bear?

[halfasleep]

regardless of the merits/demerits of the argument, rationalmadman's hyper-engaged early posting and apparent desire to position himself as a town thought leader is setting off some bells for me. reminds me of what i've tried to do in my own scumplay.

[RationalMadman]

regardless of the merits/demerits of the argument, rationalmadman's hyper-engaged early posting and apparent desire to position himself as a town thought leader is setting off some bells for me. reminds me of what i've tried to do in my own scumplay.

Where did I do that? I only expanded on it when asked.

Everyone should try to lead Town btw. However they should earn it and not assume it. It is futile to play to not lead Town.

[Robbnva]

I feel the same way, actually. I still find it fun if I have the right mindset going into the game beforehand, but I tend to dread red PMs these days.

Yeah I get anxiety right before I open a role PM lol

[Robbnva]

VOTE: hu Tao

But why teddy bear?

"WHY ME" I found scum Bs and Gs

Honestly I don't feel like you have tried to engage yet, your content is been lacking so it is a good place to start.

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: hu Tao

But why teddy bear?

"WHY ME" I found scum Bs and Gs

Honestly I don't feel like you have tried to engage yet, your content is been lacking so it is a good place to start.

Fry me

And am I the only one you think this of? We are only a few pages in. If not why single me out?

[Robbnva]

I am actually more in favor of a quick elimination vs a no elimination. While you make good arguments, they are ones I have seen in the past and I still think eliminating somebody is better for the overall ability to find scum.

[halfasleep]

regardless of the merits/demerits of the argument, rationalmadman's hyper-engaged early posting and apparent desire to position himself as a town thought leader is setting off some bells for me. reminds me of what i've tried to do in my own scumplay.

Where did I do that? I only expanded on it when asked.

every post you've made so far?

Everyone should try to lead Town btw. However they should earn it and not assume it. It is futile to play to not lead Town.

oh, okay.
VOTE: RationalMadman

[Robbnva]

Fry me

And am I the only one you think this of? We are only a few pages in. If not why single me out?

yeah the old why me fry me, that was immediately what I was reminded of. BUt I haven't played mafia in like 4 years so maybe it is old school lol

You were the one who stood out to me the most, there are others who are attempting to enguage with others in a meaningful way. I am not a fan of Not Mafia, but we have a past and I always scum read them and they are one of the ones who could really push my buttons so for now I am just going to monitor from a distance.

[Robbnva]

regardless of the merits/demerits of the argument, rationalmadman's hyper-engaged early posting and apparent desire to position himself as a town thought leader is setting off some bells for me. reminds me of what i've tried to do in my own scumplay.

Where did I do that? I only expanded on it when asked.

every post you've made so far?

Everyone should try to lead Town btw. However they should earn it and not assume it. It is futile to play to not lead Town.

oh, okay.
VOTE: RationalMadman

they seem pretty town so far, why the vote?